Metagame 2v2 Doubles

Meme Team

Here's a little meme combo that I've had okay success with. Beats weather other than hail, beats electric terrain spam, and beats the m-banette + Whimsicott meme. Only loses to some ghost teams, hail teams, or kyurem-black with the right partner. In general, it's suprisingly robust. I've currently peaked at 1527 ELO with this squad



Here's some replays showing both combos
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen72v2doubles-821891360
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen72v2doubles-821894301
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen72v2doubles-822905101 (1527 elo)



Zo (Togedemaru) @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Iron Head
- Endeavor
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield


Rajon (Bruxish) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Aqua Jet
- Protect
- Bite

Togedemaru is a standard FEAR mon with fake out. Bruxish is the perfect pairing for toge, as it can set up trick room, protects toge from priority which is very common in fake out, and has access to priority itself.

The main strategy is to fake out the most threatening mon to Bruxish turn 1 and set up trick room. From there, endeavor + bite will kill most opponents. If both opponents have the ability to 0hko Brux, then the alternative is to protect with Brux, and use endeavor turn 1. After that Brux can finish the last damage with aqua jet and toge can start on the next mon. If facing kyurem it's important to target it first as it can kill through Toge's sturdy.

Certain mons are slower than a min-speed Bruxish, which can disrupt the strategy. Iron ball is an alternative over Wacan berry to beat those teams. Though, electric attacks are very common and I think Wacan berry is overall a better item. Mega-mawile is an example of a pokemon that can disrupt the strategy, but it can be played around. If Brux and toge could trade their fake out and trick room with each other everything would be better.

Bite + Iron Head provides good flinch hax + a super effective move if you have to fight a ghost


For laddering, I've paired this combo with M-lopunny and Hoopa-U in order to beat ghosts, kyurem-b and most hail.


Kuz (Lopunny-Mega) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Iron Tail
- High Jump Kick
- Fire Punch


Lance (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Grass Knot
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Punch

Only thing that's not straightforward about this combo is that hyperspace fury allows hoopa-u to break other pokemon's protects which can also let Lopunny hit through it. Punny also has access to fake out that can hit ghosts which is cool. Hyperspace fury smacks all the ghosts that Toge loses to. Grass knot is for swampert. Iron Tail is for alolan ninetales. High jump kick Kos Kyurem-B.

Import:
https://pokepast.es/3caca01014501960
 
Last edited:
Kuz (Lopunny-Mega) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Iron Tail
- High Jump Kick
- Fire Punch
Iron Tail > Return/Giga Impact

I don't see you needing Iron Tail even to hit fairies as you have scarf gunk shot and endeavor Togedemaru. Return provides reliable stab that is useful for multiple instances.

Giga Impact should also be considered as you can nuke your opponent's mons turn 1 and win.
 
Iron Tail > Return/Giga Impact

I don't see you needing Iron Tail even to hit fairies as you have scarf gunk shot and endeavor Togedemaru. Return provides reliable stab that is useful for multiple instances.

Giga Impact should also be considered as you can nuke your opponent's mons turn 1 and win.

The movesets were curated from hours of playtime and testing on ladder. Iron tail actually wins me a lot of games that I would otherwise lose as it can 1hko most fairy types. Mind you, allowing hoopa-u to use hyperspace fury instead of gunk shot when the opponent is fairy type can be very valuable. Iron Tail can also 1hko m-diancie and alolan-ninetales even after intimidate.

Fire punch is actually the more expendable move from experience, and right now I am running return over firepunch. I also switched to hyperspace hole from grass knot on hoopa. Both pokemon have a lot of room to use niche cover moves to cover specific threats that pop up on the ladder. Also, I try to only use the attacking pair when toge and brux don't do the job. Prioritizing killing A-ninetales is kind of important as it's one of the few things that doesn't have to run a niche set to beat fear.

I've also switched to twineedle from iron head which gives the benefit of adding poison to the user, and is guaranteed 2 damage. This is actually significantly better than iron head, because it allows me to chance a poison in a 1v1 situation where both pokemon are at full health. If I endeavor right away, it doesn't put them in KO range unless I'm 1 hp. I have to wait until they attack me, and being able to chance a poison during that time can secure wins
 
Last edited:

Knuckstrike

Hi I'm FIREEEE
Unfortunately there haven't been many (or any) sample teams so I'd like to release some of mine so people have a decent team to play on the ladder with if they don't know the tier.
I used many of them in the WCOP 1v1 tourney and won all my matches so they should be decent. I also made a vid about my matches so check it out:

1540323083765.png
1540323093023.png
1540323103352.png
1540323115257.png

https://pokepast.es/7fa67aaa7d1b865a

Double mega team with a lot of physical offense. Hail Kyurem does well against weather. Mawile's set can be changed depending on what kind of teams you face: play rough, ice punch and protect are all viable options.

1540323247967.png
1540323272153.png
1540323286278.png
1540323291346.png

https://pokepast.es/1420fe29142840db

Most offensive and fun team where Mime is mostly just there to support Deoxys. Intimidate Gyarados+AV kyurem gives the offense some bulk.

1540323363586.png
1540323396216.png
1540323406522.png
1540323425232.png

https://pokepast.es/a8b34a9527edfa36

Dedicated Trick Room where you'll mostly want to bring Oranguru. Blackglasses Hoopa can break through protect and is a decent alternative to the spread moves of Blastoise and Camerupt.

1540323506701.png
1540323544353.png
1540323554410.png
1540323570661.png

https://pokepast.es/eb99406c3f6138da

CB Zygarde has few resists and Defiant Thundurus takes advantage of any opponents that want to intimidate you. Manectric/Fini are a good combination that shut down many physical attackers.
 
I'm going to leave some input. What would be interesting is a Fake out ban! Every battle revolves around it, and it could be fun
 
I'm going to leave some input. What would be interesting is a Fake out ban! Every battle revolves around it, and it could be fun
While fake out is arguably the best move in doubles, 99.9% percent of pokemon run protect to counter it. A fake out ban would not make sense at the moment since you run Protect on more than 1/2 of your mons which is a hard counter and I don't see a fake out user as much as it would be concerning to be overcentralizing.
 

Pokesartoolcay

formerly Mubs21/Pokesartoolcay
Hello guys, Mubs here, with some revival herbs for this thread. After our run as OMOTM, which we did not get much done in, I would like to get a few things done. Allow me to talk about what we need to get done.


Please, Unban Mega Gengar (Gengarite): This ‘mon is banned from this format due to how our 2v2 Banlist is made: DOU ban list, -Tapu Lele, -Salamencite, - [All Z Moves]. Due to that, whenever DOU bans something, its technically should be banned here. That's the case for Mega Gengar, which does not have a bannable trait at all, as you cannot switch in this format in the first place, making its ability useless, and it’s only reason for being banned nonexistent


We need to do something about Weather and Electric Terrain: These things, if we are looking at our metagame, should be considered a next key issue. In my opinion, I believe that the speed boosting aspect of these weathers is the key problem. Most of the weather abusers in the tier have abilities that allow them to get a 2x boost under their respective Weather/Terrain, allowing them to outpace would-be checks. Suspecting those abilities is what I feel to be the best thing to do.

We seriously need some more council members: If you do not know already, Rumplestiltskin, our only council member (As far as I know) and our tier leader, is not present on smogon, for reasons unknown. With him gone, we essentially have no way of elevating this metagame in any way, negatively affecting us as the players. We should do something in order to prevent such a lack of innovation.

Z Moves: I’m not here to talk more about Z, but I’m just going to leave a straw poll: https://www.strawpoll.me/17031028


Here’s a few pokemon I would like to discuss:
,
,
There are other 'mons I would like to discuss but feel less confident on
802.png
150.png
384.png
, (Non-Mega, I’m sane)

I hope I am able to initiate a discussion here and revive this thread. Have a nice day.
 
Last edited:
Going to add more stuff about metagame tomorrow I gotta go sleep, though weather and terrain are broken, more in-depth tomorrow, but my opinion rn is merely ban electric terrain.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We need to do something about Weather and Electric Terrain: These things, if we are looking at our metagame, should be considered a next key issue. In my opinion, I believe that the speed boosting aspect of these weathers is the key problem. Most of the weather abusers in the tier have abilities that allow them to get a 2x boost under their respective Weather/Terrain, allowing them to outpace would-be checks. Suspecting those abilities is what I feel to be the best thing to do.
How is this unbalanced? Weather abusers: Swampert, Excadrill, Venusaur, Sandslash-A? Terrain Abusers: Raichu-Alola, Hawlucha (kind of)

None of these pokemon are either broken or unbeatable.
We seriously need some more council members: If you do not know already, Rumplestiltskin, our only council member (As far as I know) and our tier leader, is not present on smogon, for reasons unknown. With him gone, we essentially have no way of elevating this metagame in any way, negatively affecting us as the players. We should do something in order to prevent such a lack of innovation.
agreed.
Please, Unban Mega Gengar (Gengarite): This ‘mon is banned from this format due to how our 2v2 Banlist is made: DOU ban list, -Tapu Lele, -Salamencite, - [All Z Moves]. Due to that, whenever DOU bans something, its technically should be banned here. That's the case for Mega Gengar, which does not have a bannable trait at all, as you cannot switch in this format in the first place, making its ability useless, and it’s only reason for being banned nonexistent
#MakeKaifTeamsUnbanned
, (Non-Mega, I’m sane)
no
 
Well I said I’d edit in some thought but gonna have a new post.

Terrain and weather

Terrain is a very very popular tactic in 2v2 doubles, due to Surge Surfer, and stronger electric moves. But is it broken? We all know how it works, how it can boost speed and attacks, but should we anything about it?

The first attribute that these tactics have is raw power. Not many people want to face a rain-boosted Waterfall from Swampert-Mega, and they have to specifically prep for this tactic, whether by using slower weather, or just resists. But there are many different types of weather, it’s hard to prep for them all at once. If we unban Z-Moves but keep weather, then the combo of Idk oceanic oprietta or something under rain might become too broken. I don’t think we can unban both. Then we come to the issue of Terrain. I said before ban electric terrain, but I changed my mind. Electric Terrain still doesn’t have enough power with not many abusers. With Z-Moves banned. Raichu-A is near useless, relying on idk specs to have any power. Tapu Koko literally gets on his knees and begs for the return of Z-Moves, but we laugh in his face and say ‘lol this meta is too unbalanced otherwise’ then he Googles ‘unbalanced’. But with bad physical STAB and underwhelming Special Attack, Electric Terrain isn’t really broken at all.

Another thing Weather / Terrain abuses is the ability to have amazing speed, and strike first. For example, Tapu Koko and Hawlucha are great, because the removal of electric seed means it gets double speed, and Koko’s 130 is near unrivalled. If they have enough power, they break through a Pokemon and probably win. That’s the issue, they don’t have power, so it’s not so much as an issue.

We desperately need someone for council. I feel like we should vote on it, but when I set up that straw poll my post got edited, but the general consensus was that mubs and fireee should be the council. How about we set up an application system, so we PM whoever if we want to apply, then they can’t vote, but everyone else votes for who they think most? I don’t know. We could ask TI or someone?

I would talk about those Pokemon you mentioned, if only I could see the attachments,
So like... Does anyone wanna sit down with me after Christmas and figure out a set compendium?

Tagging The Immortal to decide on TL
 
Last edited:

Ransei

Guardian of Wonder
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Moderator
We desperately need someone for council. I feel like we should vote on it, but when I set up that straw poll my post got edited, but the general consensus was that mubs and fireee should be the council. How about we set up an application system, so we PM whoever if we want to apply, then they can’t vote, but everyone else votes for who they think most? I don’t know. We could ask TI or someone?

I would talk about those Pokemon you mentioned, if only I could see the attachments,

So like... Does anyone wanna sit down with me after Christmas and figure out a set compendium?

Tagging The Immortal to decide on TL
*Max Revive*

News: I'll be taking over 2v2 Doubles from now on. Currently I am forming a council of five or six to start off with. I will tag the council after receiving an appropriate amount of members. We currently have three members total.

If you believe you've been involved in 2v2 Doubles enough to be a part of the council and I'm unaware of it, leave a message on my Smogon profile or dm my discord Discord (Ransei#6792). I'll examine you from there!
 
*Max Revive*

News: I'll be taking over 2v2 Doubles from now on. Currently I am forming a council of five or six to start off with. I will tag the council after receiving an appropriate amount of members. We currently have three members total.

If you believe you've been involved in 2v2 Doubles enough to be a part of the council and I'm unaware of it, leave a message on my Smogon profile or dm my discord Discord (Ransei#6792). I'll examine you from there!
I know this could easily be removed but, I think this is a good idea, more so the council thing, I was on Karl (Rumplestiltskin, the one who dissappeared), about a council but he said he didnt want to. This was before the Z-Ban, but I might actually give it a try again even if I dont like the past decisions, new leader/leaders, maybe new fun. I also hope that you dont dissappear into thin air but knowing you that wont happen. gl with 2v2 doubles all
 
*Max Revive*

News: I'll be taking over 2v2 Doubles from now on. Currently I am forming a council of five or six to start off with. I will tag the council after receiving an appropriate amount of members. We currently have three members total.

If you believe you've been involved in 2v2 Doubles enough to be a part of the council and I'm unaware of it, leave a message on my Smogon profile or dm my discord Discord (Ransei#6792). I'll examine you from there!
Thank you thank you thank you.


1. Here are some potential sample teams done by various people.

https://pokepast.es/1420fe29142840db
https://pokepast.es/7fa67aaa7d1b865a
https://pokepast.es/eb99406c3f6138da
https://pokepast.es/a8b34a9527edfa36
https://pokepast.es/f9e81f8508f0d292
https://pokepast.es/380a76bcb23fdaba
https://pokepast.es/a376174450f15126
https://pastebin.com/mQu83365 (oops forgot 4th move nd EVs on Diancie: meant to be light screen, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD with Relaxed nature and 0 speed IVs)
https://pastebin.com/vQ3Ms8ev
https://pokepast.es/47400119dce1bd97
Shoutout to Kaif and Knuckstrike for posting the teams in this actual thread (although there are 2 of my own).

2. So, now Ransei has taken leadership :-), I feel that this metagame needs a bit of like, kickstarting. So (hopefully) I will be trying to look at 1 Pokemon in depth every day. Today, we have Kyurem-Black.

Kyurem-B is a great threat in 2v2 Doubles due to high power moves and the ability to 2KO a lot of common Pokemon such as Tapu Fini, Zygarde, Landorus, and power herb normally nabs the KO off Trick room setters like Oranguru. But it doesn’t just have to run pure offensive. Sets like Hail and Assault Vest are very good. Assault Vest is very good for taking special hits from Tapu Fini, Icy Wind is crazy useful for lowering both opponent’s speed (useful against scarfers like Victini), and can do massive chip to Zygarde and Landorus-Therian. It’s Hail set can normally invalidate Pelliper + MSwampert cores, and just weather in general, while also being useful against @Mubs21/Pokesartoolcay’s STUPID TOGEDEMARU. This Pokemon has quite good synergy with Pokemon that can remove bulkier steels like Mega Mawile, And something that can comfortably take care of Tapu Fini. Overall, this Pokemon has decent flexibility, and is good in 2v2 Doubles. Hope this helped, although it probably didn’t because I’m retarded.

Last thing Knuckstrike did a VR thing here in Page 9, not sure about it. Ransei should we keep this and make him update it a lot? Should we restart with it? Should we wait until more activity to actually start doing resources?
 
HELLO PEOPLE, since uop is bad and told me to put in effort to get my boys unbanned huehue



Let's get to it shall we? If you do not already know, it was banned from DOU for its trapping ability presumably but that's not what I'm here to talk about. So Mega-Gengar is one of the strongest special attackers in the tier and I personally had a lot of fun while testing it out. While it is very competent as a pokemon, I do not think that it is too powerful / banworthy for this tier. I would also like to mention the idea of following a banlist made for this tier rather than DOU + Other things that we ban.

A relevant mega gengar set
deg (Gengar-Mega) @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Protect

Let me know what you think about this pokemon and about the idea of our own banlist. mez ur still bad for making me put in work n_n
 
Last edited:

UnleashOurPassion

You can't stop me
is a Battle Simulator Driver
It's A- at best, outclassed by a lot of things yet it doesnt seem worth keeping because what?
Sorry, was tired when I wrote that, I meant it doesn't seem like keeping the ban is necessary, from what I've seen it struggles from the same problems it has in 1v1, namely lacking offensive typing, power, and bulk. I think it should probably be unbanned eventually
 

Ransei

Guardian of Wonder
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Moderator
Ok so we have gotten ourselves a new council to tier 2v2 Doubles! While this is a bit less than I intended, the rest of the council was satisfied with the total amount of users, and would rather keep it as this.

Please welcome the 2v2 Council!

Ransei - Current 2v2 Doubles Leader
UnleashOurPassion
Knuckstrike
Mubs21/Pokesartoolcay

New topics and discussion on are on the rise!
 

Pokesartoolcay

formerly Mubs21/Pokesartoolcay
[Banner coming soon]


Welcome to the new 2v2 resources page, the go-to place for Viability rankings, Samples. Feel free to submit any ideas for samples, and any other resources that you feel will benefit anyone by PM’ing a council member on smogon/discord.


Index:


Helpful Links


Samples and Team Dump:


Samples:

Will be added soon, feel free to submit samples


Team Dump:
Will add teams I find here, cannot guarantee that the teams are as viable as the samples


Tagging Ransei for him to hyperlink this on the main post.
 

UnleashOurPassion

You can't stop me
is a Battle Simulator Driver
Hello thanks for giving me 2v2 leadership. Just making a status update post so you guys know what we'll be focusing on in the nearby future, in order of importance.

Mega Gengar
Many people think this Pokémon was unrightfully banned from 2v2, it has reasonable stats but lacks the power and bulk to compete with other 2v2 threats. Mega Gengar will probably face an unban suspect test soon

Jirachi
Like Mega Gengar, this Pokémon was banned from Doubles OU without 2v2 having anything to say about it. The main reason for banning Jirachi was its great use of Follow Me, with good typing it can take focus away from the other pokemon without taking too much damage in the process. It also has a powerful Z-Celebrate set, which is something we don't have to worry about in 2v2, given that this is a metagame where Z-Moves don't exist. Contrary to 1v1, Jirachi can't pull off its powerful flinching set in 2v2 due to its inability to hit (and flinch) more than one target.

Snorlax
Another Pokémon that was banned from 2v2 due to changes in Doubles OU, although this one isn't met with controverse, I still want to know what the 2v2 community thinks about it.




That's all I've got really, but that doesn't mean you guys can't add to this list. If you think something is important enough to face a ban or unban in 2v2, feel free to post. But try to keep your discussion focused on these 3 at least to some extent, so we can get community input on them and quickly decide a direction to go for 2v2!

Edit: Sample team submissions are open and appreciated
You can submit a sample team by messaging me or any of the council members on Smogon.
 
Last edited:
Hello thanks for giving me 2v2 leadership. Just making a status update post so you guys know what we'll be focusing on in the nearby future, in order of importance.

Mega Gengar
Many people think this Pokémon was unrightfully banned from 2v2, it has reasonable stats but lacks the power and bulk to compete with other 2v2 threats. Mega Gengar will probably face an unban suspect test soon

Jirachi
Like Mega Gengar, this Pokémon was banned from Doubles OU without 2v2 having anything to say about it. The main reason for banning Jirachi was its great use of Follow Me, with good typing it can take focus away from the other pokemon without taking too much damage in the process. It also has a powerful Z-Celebrate set, which is something we don't have to worry about in 2v2, given that this is a metagame where Z-Moves don't exist. Contrary to 1v1, Jirachi can't pull off its powerful flinching set in 2v2 due to its inability to hit (and flinch) more than one target.

Snorlax
Another Pokémon that was banned from 2v2 due to changes in Doubles OU, although this one isn't met with controverse, I still want to know what the 2v2 community thinks about it.




That's all I've got really, but that doesn't mean you guys can't add to this list. If you think something is important enough to face a ban or unban in 2v2, feel free to post. But try to keep your discussion focused on these 3 at least to some extent, so we can get community input on them and quickly decide a direction to go for 2v2!

Edit: Sample team submissions are open and appreciated
You can submit a sample team by messaging me or any of the council members on Smogon.
I literally did a massive team dump from various people in the last page. All of them are very solid apart from the one with MDiancie. They’re from various people, not just me.

Honestly Mega Gengar isn’t broken. Like what the heck does this even beat. Let’s see, Deo-A, Gyarados-M, Zygarde, Raichu, and like most of the top mons beat this. There’s no real reason why this shouldn’t be allowed. 170 Spak stat is pretty good, but there are much better special attackers.

Jirachi... that’s something I haven’t really considered much. I mean, it doesn’t seem that strong, at all, a mere 100 in whatever attacking or defensive sets it’s gonna run. The powerful flinching set, as uop set, can’t hit both, and is overall completely outclassed by any Fake Out abuser, being less reliable than Fake Out (even though it can be used every turn). It seems pretty luck-based, so why aren’t we banning it like a-detect uop, so I honestly think this is worth an unban.

Snorlax, (EWWW), I’m not sure what set it would run tbh. GluttonyBerry honestly doesn’t seems that good at all, not even one of the best mons, but I’m not sure what it would run so I’m not gonna talk about this.

What happened to the groupchat? I check every day it’s never up.
 
Snorlax, (EWWW), I’m not sure what set it would run tbh. GluttonyBerry honestly doesn’t seems that good at all, not even one of the best mons, but I’m not sure what it would run so I’m not gonna talk about this.
lax is stupidly overpowered with belly drum berry type shit
 
I personally think we shouldn't unban Jirachi and Snorlax.

While it's true that Follow Me make Jirachi broken, it is also capable of doing a bunch of stuff effectively. Providing speed control through either Trick Room or Icy Wind, and possibly flinch the foe with Iron Head. The only other redirector that's capable of performing these is Togekiss, but it actually isn't effective on the flinching part despite what its high special attack tells you, and Togekiss not having Trick Room means any TR team will pick Amoonguss over it.

As for Snorlax, Snorlax can easily steamroll any unprepared team with Belly Drum and Gluttony, and easily bypass its speed issue if the partner uses Trick Room. While that doesn't seem like much on paper, facing against a Belly Drum-boosted Snorlax in Doubles is really, really difficult.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top