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Metagame 2v2 Doubles

Dragon Ascent isn't banned in Ubers, it's just that Rayquaza cannot mega evolve with Dragon Ascent.
As for Swagger, that only applies in Generation 6. The only Generation 7 format where Swagger is banned is Doubles OU and Doubles UU.
Oh okay, thanks. I misunderstood the ban and thought it was a ban on Dragon Ascent in general. Thanks for clearing that up.

Also guys can we please have a post that's not the Smogon equivalent of a reaction video on YouTube? Rumplestiltskin's the worst about this, (and glyx) but please for the love of my eyes quote a post once, say everything you want to say about it then, and then proceed to make your own new arguments instead of rehashing old points when it's clear that neither side is ever going to give in on them.
 
So,well,the suspect ended it ended a whole week ago please don't judge me I was busy
Since we got very few votes,we decided to allow the council to vote as well.
These are the results.
https://pastebin.com/8e5uq3ew
(we failed to contact lost heros)

Therefore,with 3 pro-unban votes and 2 pro-ban votes,Z-Moves have been unbanned.
Despite the limited participation,we've decided to take account the results of the suspect in order to prevent further controversy.
You can still discuss Z-Moves,but there will probably be no change any time soon.
Added to that,I'd like to hear some thoughts on weather (if any).
 
So,well,the suspect ended it ended a whole week ago please don't judge me I was busy
Since we got very few votes,we decided to allow the council to vote as well.
These are the results.
https://pastebin.com/8e5uq3ew
(we failed to contact lost heros)

Therefore,with 3 pro-unban votes and 2 pro-ban votes,Z-Moves have been unbanned.
Despite the limited participation,we've decided to take account the results of the suspect in order to prevent further controversy.
You can still discuss Z-Moves,but there will probably be no change any time soon.
Added to that,I'd like to hear some thoughts on weather (if any).
Simply put, I personally think Drizzle and Sand Stream teams are too overwhelming for 2v2. Unlike in any standard Doubles formats, you can't switch while facing those teams. Even with methods that can check them, it is really difficult to pull it off. You know it's bad when even The Immortal said ban weather.

I suppose the only one that's fine is Snow Warning as Hail doesn't really provide all that much and most of the Slush Rush users aren't good, but even then, there's Aurora Veil.

Also, please don't unban Snorlax.
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
So,well,the suspect ended it ended a whole week ago please don't judge me I was busy
Since we got very few votes,we decided to allow the council to vote as well.
These are the results.
https://pastebin.com/8e5uq3ew
(we failed to contact lost heros)

Therefore,with 3 pro-unban votes and 2 pro-ban votes,Z-Moves have been unbanned.
Despite the limited participation,we've decided to take account the results of the suspect in order to prevent further controversy.
You can still discuss Z-Moves,but there will probably be no change any time soon.
Interesting that you couldn't contact lost heros this time when he was the entire reason you justified the possibility of this ladder suspect.
And don't include me in taking account the results of the suspect when I was against it being legitimate in the first place.
You allowed the council to vote, ok, but "motogp:no ban". How does this make sense when you agreed to ban Z?
In order to prevent the need for a mass-ban of Z-move abusers,the 2v2 council has decided to BAN all Z-Crystals from 2v2 until further discussion.
We simply deemed that the users were too many to rely on individual bans,so instead Z-Crystals has been banned as a whole.If you want more information as to why Z-Moves were banned,feel free to read the posts above.
 

Knuckstrike

Hi I'm FIREEEE
I mean it was kinda obvious there were going to be little votes; 1500 isn't that easy where the meta is 90% matchup-based and the top ladder player is 1550. I only saw around 10 players sitting above 1500, most of which were alts of different accounts, not even mentioning having to ladder up an additional 2v2r alt. Plus, many might not watch this thread. Maybe 1400 would've been a better cutoff. Also the 72GXE thing wasn't even a requirement really as everyone was closer to 78 than 72 at that point.

Still glad that the most votes still counted though and not that a last-second council influence for the third time this meta changed the outcome.
 
Way too bored, so let's liven this thread up.......

Okay, so March usage stats are out, yayyy..... If you'd cared to look through it, you'll see that weather and terrains have indeed as usual taken top spot with
2 | Tapu Koko
3 | Tyranitar-Mega
6 | Charizard-Mega-Y
13 | Pelipper
and their corresponding companions

5 | Excadrill
10 | Hawlucha
11 | Raichu-Alola
12 | Swampert-Mega
16 | Venusaur

But, this is not what I wanted to talk about, I wanted to talk instead about another couple of Ubers Pokemon which still run loose in the 2v2 metagame, which are Shaymin-Sky, and Deoxys-Attack .


I'll just outline my thoughts on why both these deserve to go


  • About DeoA: Deoxys-Attack has outstanding offense stats, and though it doesn't live much attacks, it doesn't need to, with its speed tiers(150) being in the air. To give you an idea, Naughty/Rash/Lonely/Mild Choice Scarf Deoxys Attack has a speed tier of 598, which in itself is a very high-end speed tier, but with 180 Attack and 180 Special Attack, Deo-A is seriously busted, ripping through MegaVenusaur, MegaPert, MegaTTar/Adamant Excadrill/ LandoT, to name a few. If Scarf can do this, Choice Specs DeoA, while not having the luxury of being able to run Naughty/Rash/Lonely/Mild for fear of being outsped by LopunnyMega, still has a speed tier of 438 with a Special Attack of nearly 690 with access to Psycho Boost, Blizzard, Thunder, Dark Pulse and more which can rip through many others like Oranguru, Mega Blastoise, Tapu Fini, to name a few. And if u think u can predict and protect the right Pokemon while using the other to attack DeoA, there's Z DeoA, which itself can Protect or Substitute on Mega Venusaur, Mega Swampert, SandslashAlola and other weather abusers. With access to Taunt, it can also shut down Trick Room setters like Cresselia, Oranguru, Stakataka, and to top it all off, it gains access to Nasty Plot, which really makes this a rather tough Pokemon to play around. This is why I feel DeoA is a unhealthy presence in the meta and should be banned.
  • About Shaymin-Sky: Coming from a guy who supported its unban in 1v1, this might sound hypocritical, but Shaymin-Sky is an unhealthy presence in the 2v2 metagame; it has its own Choice Scarf set which outspeed all of the relevant Pokemon, with only the nearest thing that outspeeds it being scarf DeoA (not too common; accounts for 2% of DeoA items) With Serene Grace and Air Slash, Seed Flare and that speed tier, and not too bad bulk, it is able to outspeed CharY+MVenu, Pelipper+MPert, and is able to tank MegaTTar+Excadrill and 1HKO or 2HKO each of them. There is practically no other viable set for Shaymin-Sky in a 2v2 setting, but surely that wouldn't stop it from being banned, would it? Come on, Jirachi is banned, and it doesn't even outspeed much of the fast meta with its Scarf set.
Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 88 Atk / 168 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Superpower
- Psycho Boost
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 28 Def / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Shadow Ball
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Deoxys-Attack @ Psychium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect / Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Psycho Boost

Shaymin-Sky @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Dazzling Gleam
- Earth Power



tl;dr Ban DeoA for being a too-good glass cannon, and ban Skymin for being a very fast Serene Grace cannon
 
Way too bored, so let's liven this thread up.......

Okay, so March usage stats are out, yayyy..... If you'd cared to look through it, you'll see that weather and terrains have indeed as usual taken top spot with
2 | Tapu Koko
3 | Tyranitar-Mega
6 | Charizard-Mega-Y
13 | Pelipper
and their corresponding companions

5 | Excadrill
10 | Hawlucha
11 | Raichu-Alola
12 | Swampert-Mega
16 | Venusaur

But, this is not what I wanted to talk about, I wanted to talk instead about another couple of Ubers Pokemon which still run loose in the 2v2 metagame, which are Shaymin-Sky, and Deoxys-Attack .


I'll just outline my thoughts on why both these deserve to go


  • About DeoA: Deoxys-Attack has outstanding offense stats, and though it doesn't live much attacks, it doesn't need to, with its speed tiers(150) being in the air. To give you an idea, Naughty/Rash/Lonely/Mild Choice Scarf Deoxys Attack has a speed tier of 598, which in itself is a very high-end speed tier, but with 180 Attack and 180 Special Attack, Deo-A is seriously busted, ripping through MegaVenusaur, MegaPert, MegaTTar/Adamant Excadrill/ LandoT, to name a few. If Scarf can do this, Choice Specs DeoA, while not having the luxury of being able to run Naughty/Rash/Lonely/Mild for fear of being outsped by LopunnyMega, still has a speed tier of 438 with a Special Attack of nearly 690 with access to Psycho Boost, Blizzard, Thunder, Dark Pulse and more which can rip through many others like Oranguru, Mega Blastoise, Tapu Fini, to name a few. And if u think u can predict and protect the right Pokemon while using the other to attack DeoA, there's Z DeoA, which itself can Protect or Substitute on Mega Venusaur, Mega Swampert, SandslashAlola and other weather abusers. With access to Taunt, it can also shut down Trick Room setters like Cresselia, Oranguru, Stakataka, and to top it all off, it gains access to Nasty Plot, which really makes this a rather tough Pokemon to play around. This is why I feel DeoA is a unhealthy presence in the meta and should be banned.
  • About Shaymin-Sky: Coming from a guy who supported its unban in 1v1, this might sound hypocritical, but Shaymin-Sky is an unhealthy presence in the 2v2 metagame; it has its own Choice Scarf set which outspeed all of the relevant Pokemon, with only the nearest thing that outspeeds it being scarf DeoA (not too common; accounts for 2% of DeoA items) With Serene Grace and Air Slash, Seed Flare and that speed tier, and not too bad bulk, it is able to outspeed CharY+MVenu, Pelipper+MPert, and is able to tank MegaTTar+Excadrill and 1HKO or 2HKO each of them. There is practically no other viable set for Shaymin-Sky in a 2v2 setting, but surely that wouldn't stop it from being banned, would it? Come on, Jirachi is banned, and it doesn't even outspeed much of the fast meta with its Scarf set.
Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 88 Atk / 168 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Superpower
- Psycho Boost
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 28 Def / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Shadow Ball
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Deoxys-Attack @ Psychium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect / Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Psycho Boost

Shaymin-Sky @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Dazzling Gleam
- Earth Power



tl;dr Ban DeoA for being a too-good glass cannon, and ban Skymin for being a very fast Serene Grace cannon
> Giving both Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball
> Nasty Plot on something with utterly abysmal bulk, in Doubles setting
> Giving Dazzling Gleam to Shaymin-Sky
Hmmm...

Look, I'm not trying to say that I don't agree that these Pokemon are too good for 2v2, but some of the points that you make are a bit iffy. Deoxys-A simply cannot afford the time to set up without any sort of protection.

Also, Jirachi is banned in Doubles OU since it's too good as Follow Me redirector, not for its Choice Scarf set.
 
Abomasnow-Mega @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Diancie @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Trick Room
- Protect

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Protect

Raichu-Alola @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Protect

i just threw these together for weather spam - any thoughts
 
From what everyone noticed in the OMOTM month,weather-related abilities do seem to be problematic.
I'd like to hear some opinions on them since the majority of the people I've talked with do support a ban,but none has specified which ones are the most problematic (or even if weather is problematic as a whole)
Terrain is also likely on the radar for later.
 
hawlucha.png
tapukoko.png
togedemaru.png
stakataka.png
Anti-Meta Hawlucha

Hi everyone, you may know me as Somemenhave in the 1v1 room. I recently got into 2v2 doubles a few weeks back. I played a couple of tours in the group chat to get the sense of the metagame and I'm finally posting an RMT for this meta. I'll go over the teambuilding process for this team and why this team should be noted down in the current metagame without Tapu Lele or Focus Sash.

hawlucha.png

I first needed a pokemon to build a team around. I've read the 2v2 doubles thread to see what was talked about and there was a huge looming threat of being able to check/counter weather. I realized that my ace pokemon needed to be able to fit with all of my other pokemon. I was keeping this idea in the back of my mind. Then while playing Suicide Cup, I landed on the idea of using Hawlucha.

There it was, a goldmine of attributes: Ally Switch | High Jump Kick | Unburden | Sitrus Berry | Electric Seed | Sunny Day | Rain Dance | Acrobatics

All these moves would fit perfectly on a 2v2 doubles team. I quickly added this to my teambuilder. It wasn't hard to figure out what would come next.

hawlucha.pngtapukoko.png
This core was great as it could beat any type of weather.

venusaur.png
charizard-megay.png

- This core gets destroyed by both of my pokemon. Hawlucha gains the Unburden Speed boost right when it's sent out on the field. Venusaur can't outspeed and gets killed by Hawlucha's 110 base power STAB Acrobatics. Koko Z's the life out of Zard Y. The battle would promptly end in turn 1.


excadrill.png
tyranitar-mega.png

- The Unburden boost on my Hawlucha is key on beating this sand core. Koko would act as the bait for Excadrill while Tyranitar would protect out of instinct. Hawlucha goes faster than Excadrill and KO's it with High Jump Kick. Even if both Excadrill and Tyranitar protect. Hawlucha would still tank a Mega Tyranitar Rock Slide.


politoed.png
Or
pelipper.png
swampert-mega.png

- This is where the Hawlucha really comes into play as it can Click Sunny Day turn 1 and completely destroy Swampert's speed. It can also check Pelipper's Hurricane as Hurricane becomes 50% Accurate in the sun and Scald's damage is decreased. I haven't fought any Politoads or tested with them but I don't think Politoad could really stop Hawlucha unless it knows about the Sunny Day.

- If I was fighting another Politoad I would probably switch up Hawlucha to Togedemaru + Koko. Togedemaru provides Fake-Out fear support.


abomasnow-mega.png
or
ninetales-alola.png
+
sandslash-alola.png
or
beartic.png

- Hail is not used very much and is generally a niche pick if you don't want rain. Hawlucha can deal with these cores by setting up the sun first turn and Koko protects. Megas go first so Hawlucha can still pull off a Sunny Day. Otherwise, you could just High Jump Kick the sweeper or Acrobatics the setter. Koko deals with Nine-Tales Alola just by nuking it with Z-Thunder Bolt.


^^^That's the explanation for why this core beats all weather used in 2v2 doubles. Feel free to suggest any improvements I should make or any errors I made.

Now I needed something that can beat TR. (Trick Room) I could use the Anti-TR Ferrothorn. Then I remembered, "I played DOU!" I decided that I needed to use FEAR.

hawlucha.pngtapukoko.pngtogedemaru.png
- FEAR Togedemaru was great for my team as it provided an answer to TR cores because of it's lvl1 nature and the access to Fake Out Support which can help Koko and Hawlucha. Being able to skin opponents with its endeavor or be able to surprise KO the with its Spiky Shield this pokemon was a great third option for my Hawlucha Koko core.

hawlucha.pngtapukoko.pngtogedemaru.png
stakataka.png

- I decided that I could have a TR setter as my fourth option to work very well with Togedemaru. I decided I could use Stakataka because of it's great Defensive and Offensive capabilities. But then I realized my problem: Priority and no Electric Immunity. Azumarill's Aqua jet or Mega Lopunny's High Jump Kick could damage my Stakataka and Togedamaru

hawlucha.pngtapukoko.pngtogedemaru.pngzygarde.png

- Zygarde seemed to be a good alternative to Stakataka as it has the ability to set up and nuke opponents. I found that Zygarde worked very well with my team in general. A strong ground type attacker would be able to kill threats like Mega Metagross.

Edit:
hawlucha.pngtapukoko.pngtogedemaru.pngstakataka.png
I've decided to use Stakataka after playing against my friend in 2v2 doubles.

That's my teambuilding process for this team. I'm open to improvements or even major improvements to this team. I hope this could become a sample team in the OP thread with enough edits.

Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ally Switch
- High Jump Kick
- Sunny Day
- Acrobatics / Swords Dance

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Charge / Sky Drop
- Grass Knot
- Protect

Togedemaru @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 2
EVs: 108 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield
- Nuzzle

Stakataka @ Air Balloon
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
 

Attachments

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Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
There's now a 2v2 Doubles Discord server!

It will serve as an extra, dedicated chat, source of information about recent happenings and whatnot, and with a cool feature: tournament notifications.
I will be posting in the #tournament-notifications channel whenever there's a tournament on PS! whenever I'm online, and you can request a role so you get alerted every time. Anyone can post in the channel and anyone can alert people about a tournament, so feel free to post there if you see a tour somewhere on PS!
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
There's now a Samples post, where I've collected the various sets/cores posted here, thanks to everyone contributing!

Onto the actual meta, high urgency topics as of right now are

  • Z-moves
    • I'd like to revisit this topic as the subject has kept proving to be a problem during my continued playing. I'm going to post further thoughts and reasoning behind why this really is a problem in an upcoming post.
  • Weather
    • Weather keeps proving itself to be a problem. It's rare to see a team without some sort of weather or anti weather measures, which shows overcentralization.
      Weather

      Overcentralizing last gen to the point where almost every team had at least 1 weather core, if not 2, which resulted in a lot of 50/50's at team preview. You really needed to deal with the weather cores as the benefits to both pokes in a weather core was no joke, and proved to be one of the best strats if not the best strat in 2v2 Doubles. Has shown to be at least as good this gen, with additions like Slush Rush, Alola Ninetales and Sandslash bringing Snow Warning and Slush Rush respectively, Aurora Veil, Torkoal getting Drought, and Pelipper getting Drizzle. Something about weather probably needs to get hit. The question to ask is what? And the feasible options as I see it is banning weather inducing abilities or speed boosting abilities. If weather inducing abilities are banned, the pokes with the speed boosting abilities will need a turn while a partner sets the weather. Played around with Protect, which causes 50/50's, but in general seems to be the option with most counterplay as setting weather can be prevented by KO or Taunt for example. Prankster can get around that if not facing Fake Out, but the Prankster pokes come with their own limitations. If the speed boosting abilities are banned, then the weathers are still able to instantly reap the benefits of types being boosted / debuffed and moves hitting with perfect accuracy / no charge turn, which was almost equally as important as the speed buff, if not more important in some cases.
      As concluded, and as experienced with continued playing, a Weather inducing abilities ban would make the meta less dominated by weather. If no further input or thoughts, I'm strongly leaning toward this ban.
 
Last edited:
Samples

Where is the Banette+Whimsicott core???
 
My thoughts: Zmoves should be banned from 2v2, blah blah blah, but the suspect and just general way motogp handled it was fucking awful and should be completely ignored when talking about them. Thoughts on zmoves here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/2v2-doubles.3606989/page-6#post-7716861
Weather: If zmoves stay, weather should not. Groundium Exca, Grassium/Poisonium Venu, and even icium beartic are way too broken. Not sure how broken weather will be without zmoves, I can see venu being broken but maybe not beartic and exca.

edit: sample here http://pokepast.es/904407f78787d10e
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
It got me to 1st place on the ladder so it’s good. People still didn’t figure this strat and no one uses it. This deserves attention.
Added now. Enjoy facing it..

Weather: If zmoves stay, weather should not. Groundium Exca, Grassium/Poisonium Venu, and even icium beartic are way too broken. Not sure how broken weather will be without zmoves, I can see venu being broken but maybe not beartic and exca.

edit: sample here http://pokepast.es/904407f78787d10e
Interesting point. Going by memory of last gen, exca, aka the sand duo, was the most dominating and difficult to deal with weather threat, so sand is definitely a part of the problem even without Z in the picture. Hail is maybe not as obvious, but those perfect accuracy Blizzards are a menace for sure.
 

Osra

⠓⠊⠂ ⠊⠄⠍ ⠙⠁⠊⠎⠽⠖
is a Pre-Contributor
Thoughts: Weather absolutely needs a quickban, skews way too much of the metagame in terms of counterplay. Just speculation here, but I'd say that Z-moves seem broken because Weather and Terrains are so dominant and also almost completely rely on the use of Z-moves.

Ultimate conclusion: Ban Weather-inducing and Terrain-inducing abilities, then see how the metagame develops from there.
 
Thoughts: Weather absolutely needs a quickban, skews way too much of the metagame in terms of counterplay. Just speculation here, but I'd say that Z-moves seem broken because Weather and Terrains are so dominant and also almost completely rely on the use of Z-moves.

Ultimate conclusion: Ban Weather-inducing and Terrain-inducing abilities, then see how the metagame develops from there.
I think this is the best option. I son’t think zmoves are currently broken, but weather undisputably is and yes, zmoves are a large part of that. If the problems continue after a weather ban, a zmove ban might also be warranted, but I think a weather ban would a) be a good idea even alongside a zmove ban and b) help clarify where exactly the issue lies.
 

Knuckstrike

Hi I'm FIREEEE
If we were to ban Electrical surge or a similar terrain ability, why not ban Tapu Koko, the sole user of Electrical Surge?
So far the only terrain I've seen that is actually used is Electric terrain. Lele is already gone. I don't think Fini is that good, Bulu not sure. If the council decides to quickban terrain, can we ban Koko instead of all terrain users? 2/3 are mere theoretical centralizing mons and have actually not seen any usage whatsoever, so banning them because of the prevalence of koko seems excessive.
 

Osra

⠓⠊⠂ ⠊⠄⠍ ⠙⠁⠊⠎⠽⠖
is a Pre-Contributor
If we were to ban Electrical surge or a similar terrain ability, why not ban Tapu Koko, the sole user of Electrical Surge?
So far the only terrain I've seen that is actually used is Electric terrain. Lele is already gone. I don't think Fini is that good, Bulu not sure. If the council decides to quickban terrain, can we ban Koko instead of all terrain users? 2/3 are mere theoretical centralizing mons and have actually not seen any usage whatsoever, so banning them because of the prevalence of koko seems excessive.
You have a point here; back during the older days of Gen 7 2v2, Tapu Lele was banned, rather than Psychic Surge. That said, Lele and Psychic Surge were also directly proportional to one another; most participants in the Psychic Surge discussion seemed to agree that Tapu Lele, as a mon, wasn't the problem, rather the terrain it triggered upon being sent into battle was the problem. It is for this reason that I believe the ability that triggers the unwanted field condition should be banned in place of the mon that has the ability, as is the case for Drought Vulpix in UU. This would include reversing the ban on Tapu Lele and instead altering it to a ban on Psychic Surge, so that way we can use Telepathy Lele, whenever the hidden ability gets released.

not really relating to your post, but added here just so I don't double post

The way I see things, we have a few options on how to go about handling a ban:
  • Ban all weather/terrain-inducing abilities that trigger the effects of Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, Sand Rush, Slush Rush, and Surge Surfer
    This would exclude the banning of Tapu Fini/Misty Surge and Tapu Bulu/Grassy Surge. This route acts under the assumption that the weather/terrain conditions themselves are the aspects deemed undesirable to a healthy metagame, rather than any particular abusers of them.
  • Ban all abilities that double Speed under a given weather/terrain
    An entirely different possible solution to the weather crisis. According to usage stats from 2v2's most recent run of being OMotM, the Speed boosting mons have just as much usage as the weather/terrain summoner themselves, making them equally as centralizing. I could be making a hasty generalization here, but I notice that a lot of weather/terrain discussion is dictated mostly by the Speed boosting mons, rather than the summoners or the weather/terrain itself. Link to stats, here: https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-03/gen72v2doubles-1630.txt
  • Carry out bans on a case-to-case basis
    The main targets here would be Sun (Drought/Chlorophyll), Rain (Drizzle/Swift Swim), and Electric Terrain (Electric Surge/Surge Surfer), as these conditions all provide a powerful offensive boost to their corresponding types of moves in addition to providing Speed boosts or other beneficial side effects to partner mons. From there, we would work our way down to inspect for whether or not the lesser weathers and terrains compare enough to the main three to warrant a ban or suspect.
I'm personally more a fan of the third option, as it keeps us from putting Sand Stream and Snow Warning in the same, possibly broken, light of Electric Surge, Drought, and Drizzle. As for weather/terrain vs abusers, I believe the weather/terrain should be taking the hit, as the Speed boosting abusers can easily be replaced by something else that benefits from the field condition, which would then just lead us on a cycle of banning the boosted mon until we're down to nothing else left to ban.
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
Regarding terrain inducing abilities, it's mostly about looking to stay consistent with the Lele ban. I've been testing Koko and Bulu, but can't seem to come to any conclusions. The problem with Lele was the terrain itself, which provided a too good of a boost to it and its partners. Koko is for sure busted with Z, but it's hard to tell if it's the terrain itself that becomes too much of a boost for Koko or if it's because of Z in addition to it. And it's even harder to tell whether or not the boost becomes too much for it's partners, with the exception of Raichu-Alola.
When it comes to Bulu, the same applies, except I haven't been able to find a good enough partner for it to abuse the terrain with.
So as of right now, I don't see them quickbanworthy yet, and would rather have some sort of suspect after the Z and weather situation is resolved.

  • Ban all weather/terrain-inducing abilities that trigger the effects of Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, Sand Rush, Slush Rush, and Surge Surfer
    ...
  • Ban all abilities that double Speed under a given weather/terrain
It's really not just the triggering the speed boosting abilities (i.e. Chlorophyll, Surge Surfer, etc) or speed boosting itself that's the problem, but also the damage modifications, accuracy modifications, and condition modification(s) (Solar Beam) that are an equal part of the problem.

edit: I would also still put Snow Warning with Drought and Drizzle, as it provides an accuracy modification. Whether it's sand itself or the Excadrill + Tyranitar core itself that is the actual issue is maybe worth questioning.
 
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