Metagame 2v2 Doubles

UnleashOurPassion

Permanently tired
is a Battle Simulator Driver
Hello thanks for giving me 2v2 leadership. Just making a status update post so you guys know what we'll be focusing on in the nearby future, in order of importance.

Mega Gengar
Many people think this Pokémon was unrightfully banned from 2v2, it has reasonable stats but lacks the power and bulk to compete with other 2v2 threats. Mega Gengar will probably face an unban suspect test soon

Jirachi
Like Mega Gengar, this Pokémon was banned from Doubles OU without 2v2 having anything to say about it. The main reason for banning Jirachi was its great use of Follow Me, with good typing it can take focus away from the other pokemon without taking too much damage in the process. It also has a powerful Z-Celebrate set, which is something we don't have to worry about in 2v2, given that this is a metagame where Z-Moves don't exist. Contrary to 1v1, Jirachi can't pull off its powerful flinching set in 2v2 due to its inability to hit (and flinch) more than one target.

Snorlax
Another Pokémon that was banned from 2v2 due to changes in Doubles OU, although this one isn't met with controverse, I still want to know what the 2v2 community thinks about it.




That's all I've got really, but that doesn't mean you guys can't add to this list. If you think something is important enough to face a ban or unban in 2v2, feel free to post. But try to keep your discussion focused on these 3 at least to some extent, so we can get community input on them and quickly decide a direction to go for 2v2!

Edit: Sample team submissions are open and appreciated
You can submit a sample team by messaging me or any of the council members on Smogon.
 
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Hello thanks for giving me 2v2 leadership. Just making a status update post so you guys know what we'll be focusing on in the nearby future, in order of importance.

Mega Gengar
Many people think this Pokémon was unrightfully banned from 2v2, it has reasonable stats but lacks the power and bulk to compete with other 2v2 threats. Mega Gengar will probably face an unban suspect test soon

Jirachi
Like Mega Gengar, this Pokémon was banned from Doubles OU without 2v2 having anything to say about it. The main reason for banning Jirachi was its great use of Follow Me, with good typing it can take focus away from the other pokemon without taking too much damage in the process. It also has a powerful Z-Celebrate set, which is something we don't have to worry about in 2v2, given that this is a metagame where Z-Moves don't exist. Contrary to 1v1, Jirachi can't pull off its powerful flinching set in 2v2 due to its inability to hit (and flinch) more than one target.

Snorlax
Another Pokémon that was banned from 2v2 due to changes in Doubles OU, although this one isn't met with controverse, I still want to know what the 2v2 community thinks about it.




That's all I've got really, but that doesn't mean you guys can't add to this list. If you think something is important enough to face a ban or unban in 2v2, feel free to post. But try to keep your discussion focused on these 3 at least to some extent, so we can get community input on them and quickly decide a direction to go for 2v2!

Edit: Sample team submissions are open and appreciated
You can submit a sample team by messaging me or any of the council members on Smogon.
I literally did a massive team dump from various people in the last page. All of them are very solid apart from the one with MDiancie. They’re from various people, not just me.

Honestly Mega Gengar isn’t broken. Like what the heck does this even beat. Let’s see, Deo-A, Gyarados-M, Zygarde, Raichu, and like most of the top mons beat this. There’s no real reason why this shouldn’t be allowed. 170 Spak stat is pretty good, but there are much better special attackers.

Jirachi... that’s something I haven’t really considered much. I mean, it doesn’t seem that strong, at all, a mere 100 in whatever attacking or defensive sets it’s gonna run. The powerful flinching set, as uop set, can’t hit both, and is overall completely outclassed by any Fake Out abuser, being less reliable than Fake Out (even though it can be used every turn). It seems pretty luck-based, so why aren’t we banning it like a-detect uop, so I honestly think this is worth an unban.

Snorlax, (EWWW), I’m not sure what set it would run tbh. GluttonyBerry honestly doesn’t seems that good at all, not even one of the best mons, but I’m not sure what it would run so I’m not gonna talk about this.

What happened to the groupchat? I check every day it’s never up.
 
Snorlax, (EWWW), I’m not sure what set it would run tbh. GluttonyBerry honestly doesn’t seems that good at all, not even one of the best mons, but I’m not sure what it would run so I’m not gonna talk about this.
lax is stupidly overpowered with belly drum berry type shit
 
I personally think we shouldn't unban Jirachi and Snorlax.

While it's true that Follow Me make Jirachi broken, it is also capable of doing a bunch of stuff effectively. Providing speed control through either Trick Room or Icy Wind, and possibly flinch the foe with Iron Head. The only other redirector that's capable of performing these is Togekiss, but it actually isn't effective on the flinching part despite what its high special attack tells you, and Togekiss not having Trick Room means any TR team will pick Amoonguss over it.

As for Snorlax, Snorlax can easily steamroll any unprepared team with Belly Drum and Gluttony, and easily bypass its speed issue if the partner uses Trick Room. While that doesn't seem like much on paper, facing against a Belly Drum-boosted Snorlax in Doubles is really, really difficult.
 
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UnleashOurPassion

Permanently tired
is a Battle Simulator Driver
By a council vote, Mega Gengar has been Unbanned from the 2v2 Metagame.

UnleashOurPassion: Unban
Ransei: Unban
FIREEEE: Unban
Pokesartoolcay: -

3/4 members voted and with that, a majority was reached

The next matter we'll probably be taking a look at is Jirachi, that one will definitely not be decided by a council vote, but instead some kind of suspect process will be used.


Edit: Rushed posts are rushed, I forgot to explain why it was unbanned.
The main reason Mega Gengar was banned from Doubles OU is because Shadow Tag was very oppressive. This problem doesn't at all appear in 2v2 which leaves Mega Gengar as a Pokémon that is at best on par with good 2v2 threats, and at worst offensively and defensively lacking
 
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Thank you for waiting. Knuckstrike and I have compiled the big stuff in the resources. Here are the sample teams:


Clefairy HO by Kaif
Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Substitute
- Extreme Speed


Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
EVs: 156 HP / 156 Def / 196 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand
- Icy Wind
- Protect


Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike


Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

Electric Terrain
Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot

Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 24 SpD / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Drain Punch

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield


Trick Room
Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Water Spout
- Aura Sphere
- Protect

Hoopa-Unbound @ Black Glasses
Ability: Magician
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Protect

Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Magma Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Oranguru @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 24 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Protect
- Instruct

Volcanion Squad
Volcanion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Heat Wave
- Steam Eruption
- Sludge Bomb

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Plasma Fists
- Substitute
- Iron Tail

Ferrothorn @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Atk / 140 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect
- Curse

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Protect

Also here are the VR Shifts:
Deoxys-A A+ -> A
Gyarados A+ -> A
Landorus-T A+ -> A
Pelipper A+ -> A
Swampert A+ -> A
Kyurem-B A -> A+
Politoad A -> A-
Blaziken-Mega A -> B+
Blastoise A- -> A
Incineroar A- -> A
Mawile-Mega A- -> A
Tapu Fini A- -> A+
Zeraora A- -> A
Venusaur-Mega A- -> B+
Thundurus A- -> B+
Diancie B+ -> A-
Ferrothorn B+ -> A-
Kartana B+ -> A
Latios-Mega B+ -> B
Marowak-Alola B+ -> B-
Naganadel B+ -> A-
Porygon-2 B+ -> A
Rotom-Wash B+ -> B
Volcanion B+ -> A-
Amoonguss B -> A-
Heatran B -> B+
Hoopa-U B -> A-
Mew B -> B+
Tapu Bulu B -> A
Volcarona B -> A-
Zygarde B -> A-
Zapdos B -> A-

New mons:

Metagross-Mega: A
Suicune: A-
Scizor-Mega: A-
Clefairy: A-
Sceptile-Mega: B+
Manectric-Mega: B
Lucario-Mega: B
Thanks for everyone's suggestions! Expect some more news coming up soon
 
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I disagree with the inclusion of clefairy HO in sample teams,it gets clearly 4-0d by mega metagross as it has been pointed out MULTIPLE times
The electric terrain one also has a bunch of flaws

And the trick room team loses to ambipom/dedene
 

Knuckstrike

Hi I'm FIREEEE
The electric terrain one also has a bunch of flaws

And the trick room team loses to ambipom/dedene
They're meant to be teams that are easy to use, rather than the best teams available.
It's also impossible to counter the +- 80 viable Pokémon to use atm with just a single team: with team sizes of just 4 there will be always be specific sets/Pokemon that a team has difficulty dealing with.
 
Hello. I just wanted to write down my thoughts on what the course of action should be on the plethora of different subjects that we should work on.

Suspect Testing:
When it comes to suspect testing, I believe that there are 3 courses we can take in this matter:

  • Do what we have been doing, which is have some discussion and have the council just decide after that.
  • Having Public suspect tests, using tournaments on Pokemon Showdown in order to give requirements.
  • Do absolutely nothing for the rest of the generation.
In my opinion, option 2 is the best as it allows for community input into the tier.

Things to start with (suspect wise)

My first thought is to review everything Rumplestiltskin banned in this post

  • Z Moves: I do not have much to say about this. I just feel a public suspect will put this subject to rest once and for all. As Chloe said some time ago, hastiness has been something that has not allowed the former 2v2 council to settle this matter to the best of it's ability
Banning a concept that has been in the metagame for months and discussed thoroughly for weeks is hasty but rushing to suspect unbanning it hours later isn't?

Stating the obvious, it's easy to say with absolute certainty that the execution here was the absolute issue. If you wanted community input, you should have suspected it initially. But you already know this, haha asking for six opinions in a chatroom. It doesn't help either that the null hypothesis is that Z-moves should be permitted, but oh well, what's done is done.

Conducting a suspect test claiming council approval when Rumple wasn't even alerted of it? That's really concerning to say the least. It seems weird to have a council if you're not even going to consult them on large decisions. Even if you decide you're not going to consult them, don't claim you did zzz.
Accuracy Drop Clause: I don't believe banning every single accuracy drop move is necessary. A good amount of them should be banned for their lack of competitivity, but I would like to look at Leaf Tornado and Muddy Water.

  • Leaf Tornado isn’t really that viable, only targeting one foe (correct me if I’m wrong) and having a 50% chance (the same as hitting a zap cannon) to lower the target’s accuracy by one stage.
  • Muddy water has gotten some discussion within the places in which 2v2 doubles is discussed, due to its viability not being based off the fact that it lowers accuracy, but due to the fact that it's a competitively better alternative to surf. The chances of getting an accuracy drop are even worse than Leaf Tornado’s, with a 30% chance of an accuracy drop.
Sleep clause: I completely agree with its implementation.

A bonus:

Swagger: Hear me out, alright. I’ve done some research on Doubles OU, and the primary cause of it’s ban was its use in conjunction with Tapu Fini with allowed for many dangerous sets to rise and terrorize the tier, not because of swagger + play or something of that sort.

Resources:

I do believe we are improving in the resources department. At the moment I would like to get some things implemented and get people on board for a possible VR council. Tagging UnleashOurPassion to implement this into the front page.


Thank you for reading, and have a nice day.
 
I disagree with the inclusion of clefairy HO in sample teams,it gets clearly 4-0d by mega metagross as it has been pointed out MULTIPLE times
its not 4-0'd by metagross u click icy wind on clefairy, protect on volcarona and then k/o with Life Orb Heatwave the next turn.
0 SpA Clefairy Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross-Mega: 9-11 (2.9 - 3.6%) -- best move ever
252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross-Mega: 283-338 (94 - 112.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Saying that also means that the Metagross is running Rock Slide, which is not optimal considering the coverage metagross needs that doesn't leave room for rock slide. Metagross cant even touch kart w/o hammer arm. So ur telling me ur metagross runs Protect, Meteor Mash, Hammer Arm and Rock Slide and still has to 50/50 between rock sliding and killing clefairy. That's not a 4-0 love.

e: only a month late
 

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