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Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Did someone call for Charizard Y + Eruption expert? P

If you have Typh-3 as you say, go for it, but make sure to include an alternative for the AI changing weather or Typhlosion being stupid and locking into Focus miss (It will do it, believe me).

The main issue **in multis** is that since you aren't able to predict what Typh will lock in, you are at risk of having it be useless if it locks into anything that's not Eruption, plus you'd not be able to focus fire a target. Feels quite risky.
 
ReptoAbysmal said:
That's why fairy-laden Maison by and far has the most (41 though, seriously? damn Smucks lol)
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TBF, there's skewing there thanks to me using one or two from my Bench, you using four or five in your semi-random runs, turskain using Abomasnow for his semi-random run, GG using...that thing he uses several times over, and people in Singles swearing by Cloyster hype in the early parts of the Maison thread.
 
I'm parking the Mind Blown shenenigans for now.

I've run like 150+ battles at this point, always failed to break past 40.

Blace has some perks over the standard Eruption spam, but also downsides that sadly outweight the pros.

PROS
- Immune to Fake out
- Guaranteed to die after 2 turns
- Mind Blown doesn't lose BP on low HP, if anything it gains power second turn due to the potential Beast Boost
- Provides a very fast (outspeeds everything bar Aero-1) Knockoff or Trick to rid of potential setuppers or opposer Scarfs
- Provides a decently powerful stab Shadow Ball which can also kill things after Beast Boosts
- Basically anything will target Blace over Charizard outside of fighting / normal attacks

CONS
- You are forced to Protect Charizard turn 1 or 2. It doesn't 1hko Chari turn 1 even with a crit but severely dents it. Turn 2 with a Beast Boost WILL kill Charizard with a crit or if chip damage happened
- The backline needs to be able to swap into Charizard if Protect turn 2 is not an option or it dies turn 1, forcing into Telepathy or strong resists. Flash Fire not really applicable as that'd be pushing the stacking of weaknesses.
- Istantly dies to Sucker Punch
- As above... it dies turn 2 or 1, no matter what. Which is both a bless and a curse. You avoid those low HP locked Eruptions that do no damage, but at same time you can't keep it around more than 2 turns


Overally... disappointed. I was hoping better but I just couldn't find a Backline that can deal with the turn 2 Mind Blown without just taking a massive amount of damage or being useless.

(that is, until someone gives me some Wide Lenses...)
 
Anyone made Buzzwole work in tree? Just soft reset for a shiny for the first time and got it after about an hour and a half, fortunately synced the Adamant nature, so it's just begging to be used now.
 
Toyed with Iron Ball Buzzwole extremely briefly, so it already isn't going to be what you want, but it hits hard as all fuck and gets +4s for every Fell Stinger it lands. You really only need that first one, anyway. I loved it.
 
ReptoAbysmal said:
Toyed with Iron Ball Buzzwole extremely briefly, so it already isn't going to be what you want, but it hits hard as all fuck and gets +4s for every Fell Stinger it lands. You really only need that first one, anyway. I loved it.
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I'm definitely going to give it a whirl, wants speed control so Tailwind/TR seems like a must. Will go from there. Gets Drain Punch via move tutor now, so more possibilities.
 
paperquagsire said:
AV buzzwole with drain punch and leech life seems like a bulky, self healing machine of destruction
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I was thinking of that exact same thing myself, dual STAB healing moves is pretty appealing.

Also considering defensive Sub/Bulk Up for singles tree, can setup on a lot of physical attacking mons.
 
Statistically, if you depend on either a 10% flinch rate OR for an opponent's 90% accurate move to miss, within one turn, what are the odds that (failing to get the flinch plus move connects) you'll lose? It's well over 80% unfavorably, is it not?

I had spent a great deal of time replaying and replaying a round of battles out of necessity, because my "best" option at the time, lead Terrakion4, simply could not win a battle in which the opponent lead Mawile3 and carried a Mimikyu3 (Fairium Z variant) as backup. My other two pokemon could not defeat Mawile plus Florges and still be able to break Mimikyu's disguise while surviving the Twinkle Tackle afterward.

Changing Terrakion for another pokemon was out of the question because the two opponents before Veteran Xio used teams that were cleanly beaten by it, particularly a lead Zard Y; never mind the fact that the next best option was a Swampert1 with no water move. This was also the first round out of five, and I didn't want to change such a solid poke like Terrakion and come to find out it would have handled everything else easily. I was getting extremely aggravated by the situation, as the opponent would not change; I just had to find a way to come out on top. But once I resigned myself to those odds, it just became a matter of patiently trying and retrying. Though I did bitch loudly to NZtechfreak about it.

The one thing working in my favor was that sand was automatically generated for every battle. This meant that if I could kill Mawile unscathed, Florges could not OHKO me with any of its moves barring a crit, while a 2HKO was easily within my own grasp. Both Florges and Mimikyu were also much more susceptible to Rock Slide. Even if Terrakion were to die, I simply needed to break Mimikyu's disguise or hit Florges once before doing so, and I had it in the bag. Latios3 (Specs) and Mow Rotom3 (Grassium Z Leaf Storm, Will-O, Volt Switch, Shadow Ball) could handle the remaining two, not necessarily smoothly, but surely.

And after a solid hour or more of attempts, bones were thrown my way. Many, many bones. Needless to say, I got my King's Rock flinch with Earthquake and killed Mawile. But what about those other bones?

-Mimikyu loses Disguise to Earthquake and also flinches
-Rock Slide flinches Mimikyu once again
-0/0 Florges makes a lovely opponent for Terrakion especially in sand, with the SDef and extra damage per turn

So my manageable scenario became my best case scenario before my very eyes. I couldn't believe my luck. I was more than willing to sack Terrakion just to give Latios two clean turns before getting destroyed itself (Specs Psychic was doing nearly 50% to Florges, sand would push it over) and thereby leaving Rotom to either Bloom Doom Mimikyu to oblivion or finish off Florges, whomever came in last.

And I was glad I held onto Terrakion, because just as I'd anticipated, the remaining four rounds were generally easy pickings for it, especially with that sand. Giovanni packed Kangaskhan4 and, even with the intimidate from lead Arcanine, was easily dealt with (albeit not without some bloodshed. Terrakion died a hero.) That victory was sufficient to reach Rank 50, so I'm finally done with that challenge until January when the global mission wants us to return. However, they'll need to provide something besides FC because, just by playing the Agency EXCLUSIVELY, I finished with over 100,000 FC, which is more than I ever had in Moon and more than I know what to do with.

But I've got a lv100 Mega Lucario as my designated poke, which should help NZ quite a bit, as well as anyone else who wants to get into that side challenge and is looking for assistance. I can't wait for Smuckem to start playing it, since it seems like basically everything he likes about using facility sets.
 
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Nice man! Lucario will be appreciated, for sure. I've already had one trio of battles where I had to replay in the hopes of an opposition move missing in order to win, sometimes all you can do with the limited number of mons available to you.
 
ReptoAbysmal said:
Statistically, if you depend on either a 10% flinch rate OR for an opponent's 90% accurate move to miss, within one turn, what are the odds that (failing to get the flinch plus move connects) you'll lose? It's well over 80% unfavorably, is it not
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81% so not really. 10% of the time you get a flinch and win, and 9% of the time the opponent moves and misses.
 
Even better, thanks for clearing it up! What was annoying was that the battle beforehand, I had consecutively flinched a Mega Camerupt four times and was then slain by the Mawile. Felt like the RNG was trolling me big time because that Camerupt was royally fucked whether it flinched or not.

I know you've documented a lot of bizarre behavior GG, so what do you make of a Blissey4 that comes in on Latios- fresh after its teammate was KO'd- and immediately switches back out into an Infernape4 and lets it get obliterated? I had to redo that battle repeatedly because of both difficulty with Blissey4 and the battle after it. ........and it made that choice every single time. Come in as Blissey, switch to Infernape, let it get killed. It made no sense but the fact that those turns were practically scripted regardless of Latios' HP (on some occasions Latios would have fainted immediately if Infernape had come in and used Fake Out) gave me the impression that the AI "calculated" the value of that switch.

Its only damaging move is Mud Bomb, but it could have still used Toxic or tried to set up on me. Coming in before Infernape was obvious if the move I used was Psychic, which it walls. But why on earth does it then just swap its psychic-weak teammate in and sack it? Sand was also active for this, so it would faint the moment the turn ended.
 
ReptoAbysmal said:
I can't wait for Smuckem to start playing it, since it seems like basically everything he likes about using facility sets.
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Singles as the only available format kinda dampens my enthusiasm for this, if I'm being honest. Fortunately, having fifty-something Friends on my List should help fill up my ranks and help me along, when the time comes. The actual collection aspect of this might be a bigger motivation for me to try Agency than the combat, really--why raise an Imperfect Army when my fellow Smogonites can simply gift me Replicates, albeit for one facility and one format only?

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Besides, I'm been keeping busy in SM Tree in the meantime. In the past couple of weeks, I've tried E R U P T I O N, Prep the Bulu, Team Brexit V2, and a fourth mystery team that will remain a mystery for the time being. I've hovered between 60-80 with most of these teams (though I did have one flop at 43 wins), and the mystery team got me past 100 for the first time since I did so with Sacha's QR team (the 169 wins). Yes I suck, but I'm still enjoying the experience trying out a few teams that have gotten a couple of my fellow Trainers some valuable victories and achievements. As of the time of this post, I'm trying something new out that has gotten me back to 50--it turns out that one of the Q.R.T.O.O.'s teams was actually worth a shit: https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/sm/BT-4DF1-9F34

(this team is featured and linked to on Stunfisk's Battle Tree Rental Team Compilation Thread; the creator made it exactly to 50 wins with this team; hopefully I can push it a little harder than that. Props to whoever made that thread, as they seemed to have stumbled upon this thread and linked to several entries on the QR3, thereby spreading those teams to at least one other corner of the land. Also, props to Skullkid and Frozocrone for going on that thread and sharing their knowledge with the folks over there.)
 
Ah, I hadn't considered that. You may also be fairly displeased to learn that if these people don't regularly come to the festival plaza WHILE YOU'RE ONLINE and refresh an arbitrary invisible timer, they'll eventually be blocked from your use, regardless if they're your VIP or not. So your success is pretty dependent on your friends. Having said that, if you're able to grind for a bit each day, it can still be a blast.
 
Playing around with Dragonite in the Tree again and I normally run

Dragonite @ Lum berry
Adamant 252 attack/ 252 speed/ 6 hp
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch
-Dragon Dance

I’m going to play around and use Roost instead of Fire Punch and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on a different EV spread such as investing in HP over speed since I have Roost to set up Dragon Dances.
 
You want to run at least 196 speed to get the jump on Tyranitar2/3 at equal boosts so you can OHKO them at +1. I wouldn't recommend dipping into Attack either, so the best(for now) EV spread is 52/252/4/4/196 Adamant. As for PP Ups, you want to always use them on recovery moves if you can.
 
HeadsILoseTailsYouWin said:
You want to run at least 196 speed to get the jump on Tyranitar2/3 at equal boosts so you can OHKO them at +1. I wouldn't recommend dipping into Attack either, so the best(for now) EV spread is 52/252/4/4/196 Adamant. As for PP Ups, you want to always use them on recovery moves if you can.
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Awesome thank you for the advice.
 
Well, I'm trying the individual with this team:

Metagross @ Steelium Z
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Bullet Punch
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt

My favourite pokemon of the team, I think it's quite good, and I only have 2 considerations. First of all, it's better with EVs in HP or Speed? Second, maybe it's better with the Groundium Z to kill the fire pokemon (in that case I think better with Speed EVs).

Blaziken-Mega @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
- Brick Break
- Poison Jab
- Protect
- Blaze Kick

The weakest pokemon of the team in my opinion. As it's used as a revenge killer with protect+speed boost, i think it's better with flare blitz. I never used poison jab, so i want something different (sword dance maybe). Another option it's to change for another pokemon, but i have no idea.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Knot
- Scald
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Quite perfect, it saved me lots of times. The only point it's the grass knot, which i don't use.

Thanks for your help guys, I hope that I can reach 50 battles or more with this team.
 
FEAR the Frog
​
So...this is a thing now. I have found a new gimmicky hilarious team to run through the new tree with. Actually not gimmicky. reporting a loss at 110 wins.


777.png

Togedemaru @ Berry Juice "Caesar"
Ability: Sturdy
- Endeavor
- Fake Out
- Toxic
- Spiky Shield

Aron has fallen, long live the new King of FEAR. Everything Aron had + paralysis immunity, Fake Out, and spiky shield. The nickname comes from an old friend who used to have a hedgehog with that name.


658-a.png

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Scald
- Water Shuriken
- Mat Block

No trick room here, only Mat Block. The only move here that I would consider changing is Scald, everything else is essential. Water Shuriken is used to avoid speed shenanigans such as scarf/custap/DDance/priority/paralysis/salac berry. Also yes, Water Shuriken is strong enough to kill pretty much anything after endeavor and before you change to Ash form, even Mega Latios.

778.png

Mimikyu @ Mimikium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

Standard Mimikyu set for singles Because I didn't want protect, actually almost never needed it either. I wanted a second priority user and something to help kill annoying ghosts. Disguise helps "remove" his ghost weakness. Although, something I had not considered until today was that mold breaker is dangerous to Mimikyu as well. Still, not even scarf mold breaker pinsir using earthquake while toge and mimikyu were on field could stop me. I also considered using Volt absorb Thundurus in this slot because paralysis is annoying and the AI loves to spam earthquake against the leads.

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Kartana @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 116 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 132 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- X-Scissor

I stole this set from someone on this sub, don"t remember who since I used this for a different team before incorporating it into this one. It is fantastic, and did everything I wanted it to including be a bulky switch in, a fast attacker to kill endeavored mons, and a good sweeper in general. Slaughters Hail mons which break sash and sturdy with the weather.


So, backstory. I had been looking for a way to innovate on the Endeavor Aron strategy when I came up with this. I messed around with this team in Sun during the weeks leading up to the USUM release. I benched the team until USUM once I saw that Togedemaru got endeavor. Mimkyu's new Z move doesn't hurt either. I initially considered this team to be pretty gimmicky, and it is to an extent, but it is also a lot better than I expected. I was able to win again turn one protect+ Ddance, then turn 2 burn on Togedemaru, Fake Out, multiple priority moves, and Hail quite easily.


How To Play

Your turn one move 90% of the time is to go with Endeavor + Mat Block. Do to the frailty of the leads, it is rare for the opposing mons to use status moves. Always target the pokemon which could have a scarf or boosting move first, so you can take it out next turn with Water Shuriken and avoid taking the extra hit. Then alternate Endeavor and Water Shuriken on enemy mons. Mimikyu is useful when Greninja goes down early, just switch to it and use Shadow Sneak. Ghosts dies to Dark Pulse usually, and fortunately most of them are quite passive.When against Fake out, use spiky shield and switch to Mimikyu.


The loss was against the new Magnezone 3 of all things. I also played really badly in this match, so I am quite confident this team can do better than this. One thing I have noticed is that I tend to lose around the 110s mark with a good team, this has happened like 5 times now. It teaches you something about your ability to focus, and stay alert. I knew I was making a bad play in my losing match, but made it anyway because I was really tired/didn't think it would matter much. This is how you lose. Although at this point in my life, I already know my limits, it may be useful for someone and it applies to more than just gaming. Anyway...I will be trying to get farther with this team since it is probably my favorite so far. It isn't all bad though since I was looking forward to posting this team here. Also feel free to beat me to the punch with the QR team, this is all for mutual fun after all.

Losing Battle Video
Kingdra/Vikavolt/Hydreigon/Magnezone3
SQQG-WWWW-WWWB-3DDP

Rental team at
https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-424A-9E18
 
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cayZ5 said:
The loss was against the new Magnezone 3 of all things.
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Sorry kid, it's the same Magnezone3 that has existed (to frustrate Trainers) for...fuck, it's already been over nine years. Be angry it didn't keep Chesto Berry in the Frontier-to-Subway transition and thus became five times worse to deal with.

Nice work on the streak, though: it has been added to the QR-UNO.
 
Smuckem said:
Sorry kid, it's the same Magnezone3 that has existed (to frustrate Trainers) for...fuck, it's already been over nine years. Be angry it didn't keep Chesto Berry in the Frontier-to-Subway transition and thus became five times worse to deal with.

Nice work on the streak, though: it has been added to the QR-UNO.
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I was referring to the fact that thunderbolt was changed to thunder in USUM. I am well aware of how old the set itself is.
 
I see. I should have watched the video first, Magnezone4 is indeed a new beast, my apologies.
 
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