Knowing draft players, this could take all week lmao
Also, from chatting with draft players, not all are that receptive to being included due to not wanting to be integrated with Smogon, though the idea interests me personally
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Tournaments ADVPL V Format Discussion
- Thread starter goldmason
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Also, from chatting with draft players, not all are that receptive to being included due to not wanting to be integrated with Smogon, though the idea interests me personally
I play a lot of draft, and a big thing I don't want getting into ADV Draft is Smogon draft tiering. The smogon ADV Draft tour was, in my opinion, horrid. The rules banned perfectly fine things like BP and legalized bonkers stupid broken things like Suicune, and the nature of only having 8 teams means that each draft player will be able to extremely easily cteam another. I did see one team tour solve this problem by allowing each team to draft 2 at once so that's fixable. My last problem is, as Rambode mentioned, the fact that drafting for 8 pokemon commonly takes a week, and I don't think the time between auction and week 1 is that short. The biggest problem is easily the one Rambode mentioned though, and it's that many draft players don't want to interact with Smogon, and some don't want Smogon interacting with Draft. I think if, at least, some actual draft players can have involvement with making the board (i.e. zinc) and the time to make a draft is given, I would love to have draft in ADVPL, but I don't see a way to easily fit it into the ADVPL format without at least a couple modifications to how it's currently run.
You don't need to say in my opinion. Adding suicune and jirachi was a very predominantly disliked choice and left a bad taste in the communities mouth.
Draft could totally fit into ADVPL at some point - I think we should seriously seriously push for it next year after this year's ADV draft circuit (starting for the first time at the end of this month with Emerald Open). The posts in this thread, and discussion outside of it, indicate that there'd be implementation issues with regards to format and ruleset, let's use this year's draft circuit to iron it out.
Give me Doubles OU or give me death
not rly. if our ruleset isn't popular with the adv draft mains you guys don't have to use it and smogon draft staff wouldn't even vouch for using it over the emerald open board. (we will be looking at changing the board if we run any adv tours in the future though ofc. we are open to feedback) logistically i agree that waiting a year to reassess is a good idea though
but for the love of god can we stop talking about how you guys want nothing to do with us because we allowed suicune and jirachi lmao. it only really exists to burn bridges between our two communities and is making a huge deal out of something that isn't one at all. i'm not really an active player of adv draft so i don't really get impacted by anything wrt advpl whether it gets in or doesn't. but the discussion about it has been incredibly ridiculous and isn't really about advpl and is just shitting on us lol
- probably draft 2 teams to minimize cteaming. this shouldn't really even take more than like two days. in dcl it takes us like 6 days to draft 15+ teams. 2 teams isn't a lot. break week probably makes most sense anyways but could probably get the week out middle of the break week and just have a week and a half to prep/play anyways idk. tbd
- use emerald open board and ruleset. if our ruleset is unpopular theres ZERO need to force it
- profit (or not profit)
Hi, I've been thinking of a genuine response to this, and I feel I would like to lay out what I (former and prospecive manager of this tour) have been seeing from the NU players active in ADV centric circuits have ben saying.
Firstly, since last ADVPL the entire discourse brought up about NU involving players that have either managed or played in ADVPL has been surrounding the idea that Glalie is broken. Ideas here range from the idea that is is at the very least opressive in the builder and liits team choice and architypes, and at the very most completely broken and so over centralising that the meta is unenjoyable.
Players like Triangles, ArcticBreeze Stockings and JabbaTheGriffin have voiced concerns rangin from "The tier isnt healthy and needs a ban" to "The tier is so unhealthy I refuse to play it." It's also worth noting that 4 time winning manager and NU dabbler in the tour SEA shares these opinions.
WRT Oathkeeper's idea that this is supposed to be a fun tour, this is indeed how I feel too.
We can, and will run the format that stakeholders of this tour see as worth running. Also regarding Glalie's fate, that is indeed within the tiering power of the wider NU community as that's how smogon is structured. Running a glalieless tour is not undermining this. In fact, running a Glalieless tour would actually give data to back up any future tiering action (or lack thereof).
This tour is geared towards the ADV playerbase, much in the way tours like NUCL are geared towards the NU playerbase. The 2 can coexist and have flexibility on format.
Going back to the stories post, while tonally aggressive, I guess that the gist was that they didnt want their tier messed with in any official capacity? (Happy to be told otherwise but would prefer it written in earnest as we're here to discuss running a good tour)
I think I've made the case as to the sentiments in the ADV player base regarding the state of NU, that this wouldnt stand on NU's toes regarding official tiering action, and that it could be useful data for them to boot.
Peace and love,
Zacpz xox
rewording "I don't like it :((((" does not make a point more valid
What does, to you, make a point valid then? Also, why the gatekeeping?
I am trying to engage with you in good faith here, I would be grateful if you could show the common curtesy to do the same.
not liking a Pokemon just does not justify tiering action. If you could provide any data to support why or how Glalie is broken that'd be awesome but genuinely all I see is complaining
What would actually qualify as "any data" to you. If there's goalposts set it would be good to know where they are...
Also, without trying to sound abrasive here as this is a genuine question, does your opinion (as what im assuming is NU council from the matter-of-fact tone) hold any sway on the playable NU format of this tournament?
I am again going to assert that the goal here is NOT tiering action. I feel I have been more than clear that it's trying to have a tour the ADV community want to play.
Well typically you see overwhelming winrates and Glalie dominating games or warping the metagame to a profound effect, neither of which are really happening.
idt this is abrasive but I'm not really sure what you mean?
plenty of people are perfectly content with current NU. If you can't substantially justify banning something and you don't like the format, then don't play it
I think most people would call being incredibly dismissive and accusing others of just crying about issues abrasive.
In the last couple of years the tier has begun to revolve entirely around building decisions that are based on the fact that either you or the opponent is bringing glal, which is what I would personally consider warping to an unreasonable degree. fwiw I like advnu both with and without the mon, but multiple prominent (and very good at the tier) players have grown massively distasteful of the tier due to the way building for the tier works, playpatterns in common (glal-centric) matchups pan out, or both.
I don't really have a horse in the race other than being mildly anti glallers.
In the last couple of years the tier has begun to revolve entirely around building decisions that are based on the fact that either you or the opponent is bringing glal, which is what I would personally consider warping to an unreasonable degree. fwiw I like advnu both with and without the mon, but multiple prominent (and very good at the tier) players have grown massively distasteful of the tier due to the way building for the tier works, playpatterns in common (glal-centric) matchups pan out, or both.
I don't really have a horse in the race other than being mildly anti glallers.
I'm well aware of what I'm doing and never said otherwise
would you be able to go into specific interactions /serious
Winrates in mons are misleading but that's a debate for a different thread atp. I am aware Arctic SEA and Jabba have opinions on the warping, hopefully they will chime in soon.
I mean your tone has been very "no you cant do this" and I'm trying to ascertain if the authority of your tone is backed by any authority in decision making on the matter.
As I put in my first post tonight, there's also plenty of people in the playerbase for this tour that are vocally discontent. We are under no obligation to play it, or have it in the tour, or as far as im aware play it with glalie if we do choose to play it. This is the ADVPL format discussion thread, and I'll continue to discuss matters of format and the issues and preferences I've seen expressed since the last iteration of the tour.
were you not the one saying you weren't trying to be abrasive? i was just saying you weren't
Then they dont have to play NU, i dont go around demanding uprooting in other formats just bc I don't like them
then go ahead and drop ADV NU from an ADV tour if you guys wanna be so petty you can't get your way, like ok?
Im just going to disengage ATP as your simultaneously posting this on discord while arguing it isnt centralising
(Answers still not received, does stories hold any authority over tiering, what are the goalposts, would running this glalieless be considered useful data)
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clearly that's glalie speaking, not me
but yes I'm not going to say an S rank Pokemon is not centralizing, but being centralizing is not bad? like that's not a reason to ban something at all
but sure we can agree to disagree I've just seen a lot of talking and not a lot of numbers to back up these claims
I’d like to make a second post in favor of ADV RU to provide an actual ADV PL format suggestion
having played RU it's a sick meta and would even be fine playing it if I do decide to sign up
idk why people care so much about keeping team tours "pure", its about fun, and if u really care then the sheet as well. I also don't get why you expect someone to make an argument to you that Glalie is broken, when you couldn't comprehend it anyways given that you don't play the tier. It seems most people with great ADV NU results want it banned. Whether or not Glalie is banned doesn't personally effect me because I'm retired and will not be playing, but this sentiment enrages me and absolutely worsens the game for myself and every other person who plays in tours. Can people on website please cater tournaments to the desires of people rather than some metaphysical purist god. What good is coming from keeping Glalie in this tournament??? LMAO u couldn't tell me, you'd give some awful argument about precedent which would fail philosophically. We (the players) should be allowed to play blitz, we should be allowed to have enforced gentlemens, we should be able to agree to best of threes in SPL, we should allow playerbases to have fucking suspect formats if they want them. What better place is there to try ADV NU with glalie banned than the tournament that will get the people who care about the tier to play it. Let's not get in the way of the players, that is really lame.
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