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Aggron: Discussion
- Thread starter Yoko Rains
- Start date
Here is Rhydon:
Rhydon:
HP: 105
Attack: 130
Defense: 120
Sp. Attack: 40
Sp. Defense: 45
Speed: 45
If so, wouldn't it probably work better than Golem in UU? Though I'd probably prefer using Golem since its not the pre-evo of an OU if you know what I mean. Its seems kind of tricky and deceptive if I use Rhydon, but if its allowed, it seems better than Golem, though I wouldn't use it.
HP: 105
Attack: 130
Defense: 120
Sp. Attack: 40
Sp. Defense: 45
Speed: 45
If so, wouldn't it probably work better than Golem in UU? Though I'd probably prefer using Golem since its not the pre-evo of an OU if you know what I mean. Its seems kind of tricky and deceptive if I use Rhydon, but if its allowed, it seems better than Golem, though I wouldn't use it.
What does NFE stand for?
And I'd use Golem even if it wasn't for Explosion. Using Rhydon seems cheap in a way (if you know what I mean).
And I'd use Golem even if it wasn't for Explosion. Using Rhydon seems cheap in a way (if you know what I mean).
Why is his horn so big... and pointing straight up? Also how did we get from Aggron vs. Rypherior (for UU look alike contest) to Rhydon? And his large horn... Or nose... Because he has 2 horns/nosesHere is Rhydon:
Rhydon:
HP: 105
Attack: 130
Defense: 120
Sp. Attack: 40
Sp. Defense: 45
Speed: 45
If so, wouldn't it probably work better than Golem in UU? Though I'd probably prefer using Golem since its not the pre-evo of an OU if you know what I mean. Its seems kind of tricky and deceptive if I use Rhydon, but if its allowed, it seems better than Golem, though I wouldn't use it.
Porygon2 is probably the best NFE compared to its FE counterpart (NFE=Not Fully Evolved and FE=Fully Evolved). It's a definet OU pokemon too.
First things first, the discussion was never Aggron vs. Rhyperior. It was "Can Aggron be considered the Rhyperior of UU?". That means can Aggron play Rhyperior's role in the UU tier. No doubt Rhyperior is much better than Aggron, I never denied that.
How we got to Golem and Rhydon from that was because cornflake recommended them to me as UU physical tanks.
How we got to Golem and Rhydon from that was because cornflake recommended them to me as UU physical tanks.
Probably, in biggest part, is from the beefing up of fighting types, especialy with the special type focus blast that could tear aggron to pieces.
IMO, best demonstration of a NFE compared to its FE counterpart is either Scyther and Scizor or Vigoroth and Slaking. Porygon 2 is not a definite OU pokemon either. It was bl in advance, so it will continue to be bl in dp, even with the advent of an even more offensive metagame. Porygon 2 would be more like lower tier BL. While it is able to take a hit, it's stats are just not good enough. However, I digress on the subject on hand.
Aggron does not fill up the role that Rhyperior does in the OU metagame, while in the UU metagame. For one thing, Rhyperior is geared to not take special attacks well. Meanwhile, Aggron's weaknesses doesn't allow him to do what Rhyperior does. At least Rhyperior can survive non-stabbed earthquakes or brick breaks. Meanwhile Aggron will have a hard time surviving any of those.
From my experience of using Aggron it was able to do some things well, which is support your team with thunder wave and take CB normal or flying attacks, provided they are locked into it (ie fearow or dodrio). However, Aggron does not bode well when the heavier physical attackers come into play like Nidoking, Gligar (or at used to), Azumarrill, Kanghaskhan, even Solrock.
Pikachu, with highest attacking stats in the game, says hi.
You DID see the bit which said Rhydon right? And Aggron isn't really supposed to be walling special attacks, so thats out of the question.
I would have to say that Aggron is not the Rhyperior of UU because in my opinion they fill different roles. In fact, if I were to say anything, it's that aggron is a much better pokemon in UU than rhyperior is in OU pokemon.
But more to the point of the topic, rhyperior isn't meant to be a wall. It's physically bulky and all but it's played as an attacker because it has too many weaknesses, not enough resistances and frankly ground/rock is a shit type. Aggron is possibly one of the best steel types in UU, certainly better than all the other rock/steels, and a decent physical wall. It won't be killing as much stuff like rhyperior can but it can wall a hell of a lot better.
Now before all of you start saying can't wall fighting/ground attacks etc etc. I realize that. But outside of fighting and ground attacks, it can wall most physical attacks extremely well. All it means is that it needs a backup to take those hits. In advance it used to be gligar, not too sure about now. However, this is still one of the best options you have when it comes to physical walls in UU.
But more to the point of the topic, rhyperior isn't meant to be a wall. It's physically bulky and all but it's played as an attacker because it has too many weaknesses, not enough resistances and frankly ground/rock is a shit type. Aggron is possibly one of the best steel types in UU, certainly better than all the other rock/steels, and a decent physical wall. It won't be killing as much stuff like rhyperior can but it can wall a hell of a lot better.
Now before all of you start saying can't wall fighting/ground attacks etc etc. I realize that. But outside of fighting and ground attacks, it can wall most physical attacks extremely well. All it means is that it needs a backup to take those hits. In advance it used to be gligar, not too sure about now. However, this is still one of the best options you have when it comes to physical walls in UU.
OKok this looks like its becoming an arguement...
Why Aggron isnt the Rhyperior of UU.
1) In OU, the most common physical grass attack is SeedBomb which is still not quite common considering only Breloom gets it, therefore effectively cancelling off one of its 4x weaknesses. Rhyperior also survives a Seed Bomb and Focus Punch from Breloom.
2) Rhyperior survives a STAB Waterfall quite easily off Gryados and 1HKOS back with Stone Edge while Aggron takes 89.47% - 105.26% off a Sandslash Earthquake with the recommended 88 Att EVs. Anymore Att EVs should greatly increase the chance of a 1HKO.
So while Rhyperior is able to carry out its tanking duties in OU, Aggron fails to do so in UU. Thats why Aggron is not the Rhyperior of UU.
Why Aggron isnt the Rhyperior of UU.
1) In OU, the most common physical grass attack is SeedBomb which is still not quite common considering only Breloom gets it, therefore effectively cancelling off one of its 4x weaknesses. Rhyperior also survives a Seed Bomb and Focus Punch from Breloom.
2) Rhyperior survives a STAB Waterfall quite easily off Gryados and 1HKOS back with Stone Edge while Aggron takes 89.47% - 105.26% off a Sandslash Earthquake with the recommended 88 Att EVs. Anymore Att EVs should greatly increase the chance of a 1HKO.
So while Rhyperior is able to carry out its tanking duties in OU, Aggron fails to do so in UU. Thats why Aggron is not the Rhyperior of UU.
I didn't realize you used your tanks to take hits it really doesn't want to be taking. These attacks should be switched out of. Yes rhyperior may be able to survive bulkydos waterfall and OHKO back but at what cost? 3/4 of its HP? No decent player would do that unless they were totally out of options. Aggron may not be able to survive 4x SE hits like rhyperior can, but both should be switching out of these anyway.
When it comes to tanking, we look at what it can resist and come in on safely. i.e. what it can actually wall and continue to wall without being totally owned after just 1 hit.
So lets compare rhyperior's resistances to aggrons.
Rhyperior
Immunity: electric
2x resist: normal, fire, flying, rock
4x resist: poison
Aggron
Immunity: poison
2x resist: Ice, flying, psychic, bug, rock, ghost, dragon, dark
4x resist: normal, flying
As you can see, aggron has a hell of a lot more resistances to come in on and help it wall than rhyperior making it a better physical tank overall.
But as I said, aggron cannot be compared to rhyperior just because both of them have two 4x weaknesses. Aggron main purpose is as a physical wall while rhyperior's main purpose is as a physical attacker.
Erm ... not really. Aggron's main purpose is a a physical attacker who can phyiscally tank to a certain extent.
It is not a wall, and cannot stop UU's main phyiscal threats ... the only thing it walls completely are the Normal/Flying types and that's assuming they are not carrying a hidden power.
Forget Waterfall (lol) how about a Torterra's Woodhammer (480 BP against it)? Rhyperior won't like that. Or critical hit Leaf Blade (360 BP + Crit Hit)?
And as for the discussion above, Rhyperior is a physical tank I think. He can take and give physical hits.
And as for the discussion above, Rhyperior is a physical tank I think. He can take and give physical hits.
You dont find Toterra in OU. The thing that sets Aggron and Rhyperior apart in UU and OU are the opponents they have to face respectively.
You dont find Toterra and Leafeon and Toterra in OU would can potentially 1HKO Rhyperior while you do find guys in UU who can can 1HKO Aggron with a physical attack.
You dont find Toterra and Leafeon and Toterra in OU would can potentially 1HKO Rhyperior while you do find guys in UU who can can 1HKO Aggron with a physical attack.
No, lets analyze this again. Aggron has a 4x weakness to Earthquake and Close Combat, the 2 most common physical attacks - they are also aided by the fact they have 100% accuracy. The fact that it resists the nearly non-existant Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Claw, and Dragon Claw is fairly meaningless because those attacks either aren't used ever or are on pokemon with either STAB fighting or STAB Water attacks, with the rare exception of a few Normal types that would switch out of Aggron anyway.
The common physical attacks Aggron resists are Megahorn, X-Scissor, Brave Bird, Drill Peck, Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Crunch, and Pursuit. Most of the things using Stone Edge in UU have Earthquake. This includes Pinsir, the most common user of X-Scissor. Most Crunch users are either normals who also have Close Combat (or at least Brick Break) or have another STAB, usually water (Crawdaunt and Sharpedo).
You can't be a physical wall or tank if the only thing you can do is switch into one of your opponent's attacks, only to promptly get smacked on your weak point by one of their other attacks.
As I said, Aggron operates a lot better with Thunder Wave and other support options simply because in the cases the opponent's pokemon can't do anything to it, it gets a chance to cripple something or set up a Sub.
The problem with this thread is that you're not asking a fundamentally interesting question. Aggron is not really comparable to Rhyperior beyond moderately similar stat distributions and typing, and a simple look at the movesets and other content in the analyses will affirm that. There is not really anything discussed in this thread that can't be elucidated with the aforementioned resource and basic deduction, unfortunately.
yes because physical attackers it's coming in on are going to have hidden power.
And it comes in on choice item users just fine in UU, fearing only 3/17 physical attacks. Used in conjunction with a backup physical tank (quagsire/meganium) to take the ground/fighting/water hits that it can't, it's probably better than any single or combination of 2 other physical tanks in UU.
Just reading through this - I find Dragontamer's numbers on the raw stat potential of Rhyperior vs Aggron a little hard to believe actually. Specifically I can't believe that Aggron takes special hits better than a poke with 45 more base HP and only 5 less base Sp Def.
According to my numbers I'm seeing that Adamant max HP/Attack Aggron takes physical hits 6% better than Rhyperior but special hits 18% worse (not factoring in solid rock).
However, it lacks STAB EQ and Megahorn whilst having to face off against some pretty capable walls (someone listed a load earlier). It can't threaten them to nearly the same extent as Rhyperior can in OU, so no, I wouldn't say they were comparable.
Anyone else think it's ironic that Rhyperior has the word "hype" in his name?
EDIT: As mentioned before few of the things that Rhyperior walls can worry it with a secondary attack (non-STABed EQs or Brick Breaks get lol'd at), whereas Aggron has to deal with secondary fighting and ground attacks which just make it unsafe to come in on almost any common Normal. Conversely, almost nothing carries a Water or Grass attack as coverage - only as main STAB and those are easy enough to avoid.
According to my numbers I'm seeing that Adamant max HP/Attack Aggron takes physical hits 6% better than Rhyperior but special hits 18% worse (not factoring in solid rock).
However, it lacks STAB EQ and Megahorn whilst having to face off against some pretty capable walls (someone listed a load earlier). It can't threaten them to nearly the same extent as Rhyperior can in OU, so no, I wouldn't say they were comparable.
Anyone else think it's ironic that Rhyperior has the word "hype" in his name?
EDIT: As mentioned before few of the things that Rhyperior walls can worry it with a secondary attack (non-STABed EQs or Brick Breaks get lol'd at), whereas Aggron has to deal with secondary fighting and ground attacks which just make it unsafe to come in on almost any common Normal. Conversely, almost nothing carries a Water or Grass attack as coverage - only as main STAB and those are easy enough to avoid.
aggron is not the rhyperior of UU... aggron is actually good >.<
Exactly what choice item users is it coming in on ...? The most common CB users are Scyther, Nidoking and the Hitmon's all of which KO it if the player predict an Aggron switch in. And if the teams physical attackers aren't banded or scarfed?
It might fear only 3/17 physical attacks, but unfortunately two of the three it fears are the most common physical attack types in the game ... maybe its just me but I rather like my physical walls to be able to take those attacks.