525 Atk vs 436 Def & 354 HP (100 Base Power): 174 - 206 (49.15% - 58.19%)
Steelix has to be at max health to have a chance at surviving 2 earthquakes. So even then Steelix is a shaky counter at best.
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Aggron: No longer the retarded child of Rhydon and Registeel
- Thread starter Bologo
- Start date
525 Atk vs 436 Def & 354 HP (100 Base Power): 174 - 206 (49.15% - 58.19%)
Steelix has to be at max health to have a chance at surviving 2 earthquakes. So even then Steelix is a shaky counter at best.
Ok, but right now the standard defensive Steelix only has 252 HP evs. If Aggron becomes popular enough, then sure, the standard may change. I'm just saying that for now Steelix has to put EVs into defense, which therefore makes it less capable of taking special hits. Here's a new damage calculation with Max/Max Relaxed Steelix taking an EQ from CB Aggron:
525 Atk vs 548 Def & 354 HP (100 Base Power): 138 - 164 (38.98% - 46.33%)
Still has a chance at a 2HKO with just one layer of Spikes support and SR.
525 Atk vs 548 Def & 354 HP (100 Base Power): 138 - 164 (38.98% - 46.33%)
Still has a chance at a 2HKO with just one layer of Spikes support and SR.
Uh huh, because 1 layor of spike support and SR are so dependable and easy to set up. I'll agree that Steelix is a shaky counter though (at least with no DEF evs, which really is where Steelix wants to be), especially with magnet rise in the picture.
CB Aggron will always HS the first time it's out, giving Steelix a free turn to SR or do whatever. If it uses EQ the second time, even correctly predicting the switch, it doesn't do enough damage to Steelix to justify becoming risk-free setup bait for Mismagius, Scyther, Torterra, levitating dual screener/support mon x, you name it. As for Sub/Leichi, Steelix need only survive one attack, which it does nicely. (Most setup sweepers can defeat their counters if they're <50% health.)
Steelix isn't listed as a counter because this is based around OU and Steelix is UU.
if you want to get into UU, Donphan, Claydol, Torterra and even Tangrowth/the Regis (well, not Regice) have a good shot at countering it too.
Steelix does risk EQ damage though. as the standard one is 2HKOd by any banded/boosted EQ, or even focus punch from the subrise Aggron
As for the RP variants listed, Jolly 220 Spe gives it the useful ability to outrun Scarftran, so I think Jolly 28 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 220 Spe would be best, since you have more bulk, similar power and don't get revenge kod by Heatran. 28 HP is the highest you can get while still divisible by 4
if you want to get into UU, Donphan, Claydol, Torterra and even Tangrowth/the Regis (well, not Regice) have a good shot at countering it too.
Steelix does risk EQ damage though. as the standard one is 2HKOd by any banded/boosted EQ, or even focus punch from the subrise Aggron
As for the RP variants listed, Jolly 220 Spe gives it the useful ability to outrun Scarftran, so I think Jolly 28 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 220 Spe would be best, since you have more bulk, similar power and don't get revenge kod by Heatran. 28 HP is the highest you can get while still divisible by 4
I found that Metagross seems to work well with Aggron, both of them can Agility/Rock Polish up, and take out the counters, seeing as they're both counterable by the same thing. I've used Metagross early game, and when all the opponent's Pokemon are weakened, I bring it RP Leichi Aggron, and sweep whatever's left.
the set of pokemon that counter aggron is a subset of the set of pokemon that counter metagross
i would rather have my wallbreaker unnecessarily walled (in terms of breaking walls for the late game sweeper) than have my late game sweeper walled by a surprise zapdos that snuck past my wallbreaker
i would rather have my wallbreaker unnecessarily walled (in terms of breaking walls for the late game sweeper) than have my late game sweeper walled by a surprise zapdos that snuck past my wallbreaker
the problem is the earthquakes for that particular combination.
Since many of the pokemons in the meta have EQ, it will be tough on the pair.
As for teh combination, I really love the Aggron + Latias combination as they cover each others' weaknesses extremely well.
I was in another thread(CCAT) and someone said something about a sub + 3 attack set.
Aggron @ Leftovers
Adamant nature
252 hp/252 att/ 4 spe
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Head Smash
-(filler)
It looked decent, I never tested it, but the person who posted it had success with it.
Aggron @ Leftovers
Adamant nature
252 hp/252 att/ 4 spe
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Head Smash
-(filler)
It looked decent, I never tested it, but the person who posted it had success with it.
Aggron + Rotom works insanely well also.
I prefer the combination of Aggron, Rotom, and Hippowdon. Rotom can actually burn the pursuiter (Scizor, Weavile, Tyranitar, it doesn't matter, they all get set up on and run over by Aggron) and get away alive. Latias needs pretty huge defensive investment to survive the Pursuit, although a heavily bulky CM Latias with Recover could potentially be used in this way.
Hippowdon is definitely Aggron's best friend. The only Pokemon that really give them both trouble would be Swampert and Suicune, and Latias or Zapdos can help with those as well as provide a handy Ground immunity to Aggron's weakness. I like Stockpile Hippowdon, myself, since it...well, screws over everything that doesn't have Taunt or Toxic, pretty much. Or Bronzong/Skarm. Magnezone is risky to include in this trio thanks to its own 4x ground resistance. Any thoughts on the best way to handle them?
Hippowdon is definitely Aggron's best friend. The only Pokemon that really give them both trouble would be Swampert and Suicune, and Latias or Zapdos can help with those as well as provide a handy Ground immunity to Aggron's weakness. I like Stockpile Hippowdon, myself, since it...well, screws over everything that doesn't have Taunt or Toxic, pretty much. Or Bronzong/Skarm. Magnezone is risky to include in this trio thanks to its own 4x ground resistance. Any thoughts on the best way to handle them?
I guess baiting Bronzong or Skarmory with a physical attacker running an unusual special Fire-type move would be a good bet. Maybe a physical Salamence with FB or something (even though it's not unusual to run Fire Blast on Salamence, an opponent using Bronz/Skarm as their physical core would still have to switch in I guess).
Or you could try Heat Wave Honchkrow, lol.
Or you could try Heat Wave Honchkrow, lol.
The analysis set doesn't mean shit. The standard is STILL +Def, just look at the stats.
31.4% of Steelix run Relaxed, 28.6% run Impish, 17.9% run Sassy, and 12.2% run Careful.
Since when is 60% not an overwhelmingly obvious "standard" percentage? Most Steelix use a +Def nature, case-closed, and if Aggron becomes more popular(unlikely in UU, probably OU if anywhere), then more Steelix will run +Def natures.
Head Smash Aggron is awesome. I should know. Last week, I traded a Slowking over the GTS for a level 1 japanese Aron, thinking it might know Head Smash. My guess was correct. Not only did the Aron have Head Smash, it also had a Naughty nature (+Atk, that's good!), Rock Head (No Head Smash recoil, that's really good!!), a very high Speed IV (Works with Rock Polish, that's really, REALLY good!!!), AND, and this is the part you will never believe, an Attack IV of 31 (Do I really need to say how good this is?!)! I raised it to level 100, with the exact Rock Polish/Life Orb set suggested earlier in this thread, and proceeded to kick ass in PRB.
Nitpick: It's PBR.
I find that CB Aggron is the most effective, because I've seen far too much Fighting-Priority.
: (
Plus, it really pummels and weakens its counters for something to set up and sweep, or for something else to come in on an immunity and wreck havoc, because you can't NOT try to kill Aggy when you have the chance. It's too risky, and thus, the free switch. Gengar is one of the best to abuse this.
I find that CB Aggron is the most effective, because I've seen far too much Fighting-Priority.
: (
Plus, it really pummels and weakens its counters for something to set up and sweep, or for something else to come in on an immunity and wreck havoc, because you can't NOT try to kill Aggy when you have the chance. It's too risky, and thus, the free switch. Gengar is one of the best to abuse this.
One thing I've been messing around with is the Tailwind+CB Aggron combo
Aero Lead
Jolly/focus sash
252/252
-Taunt
-Stealth Rock
-Stone Edge
-Tailwind
Start by taunting, then on your second turn (provided you aren't facing a jirachi lead which will beat you 6/10 times) either stealth rock or tailwind. Ideally you tailwind the turn you're killed then bring in CB Aggron with 100% health and +2 speed for 2 turns. If they don't have a bulky ground it will result in at least 1 kill almost always, and if not just switch it out and you still have a perfectly fine CB Aggron to use later in the game.
Aero Lead
Jolly/focus sash
252/252
-Taunt
-Stealth Rock
-Stone Edge
-Tailwind
Start by taunting, then on your second turn (provided you aren't facing a jirachi lead which will beat you 6/10 times) either stealth rock or tailwind. Ideally you tailwind the turn you're killed then bring in CB Aggron with 100% health and +2 speed for 2 turns. If they don't have a bulky ground it will result in at least 1 kill almost always, and if not just switch it out and you still have a perfectly fine CB Aggron to use later in the game.
Aggron just got into UU off of a couple weeks of HS use, good start, hopefully it makes it up to OU
One huge barrier I have found in UU for Aggron is how widespread Blaizken is. Vacuum Wave will always OHKO Aggron without Sandstorm (and probably with it, too, on most offensive sets), and Curse Quagsire is an interesting opponent running around now.
I actually like using Scyther with Aggron. Scyther laughs at Sceptile, who is a common switch-in to Aggron and his buddy Quagsire (who have good synergy together). Scyther then can set up Swords Dance and pass it right back to Aggron, who, after a Rock Polish, will literally be just about unstoppable in UU. Does anyone have a similar offensive combo in OU? I'm going to try Gengar too, since Rotom's capabilities are somewhat limited offensively.
I actually like using Scyther with Aggron. Scyther laughs at Sceptile, who is a common switch-in to Aggron and his buddy Quagsire (who have good synergy together). Scyther then can set up Swords Dance and pass it right back to Aggron, who, after a Rock Polish, will literally be just about unstoppable in UU. Does anyone have a similar offensive combo in OU? I'm going to try Gengar too, since Rotom's capabilities are somewhat limited offensively.
I really don't think that if it gets to OU, it won't stay there for a very long time. OU is dominated by MixMence, T-Tars and Heatrans. All of them have the capability to learn Earthquake/Earth Power which is a 4x weakness for Aggron
None of those can switch into Head Smash, as all of them gets OHKO'd pretty easily. So that means they're most likely coming in for the revenge kill, which would imply Aggron just killed something.
In which case, you're in a situation most Choice item users face; having something switch in that you can't deal with due to the switch-in's ability to set up/OHKO/cripple you.
In which case, you're in a situation most Choice item users face; having something switch in that you can't deal with due to the switch-in's ability to set up/OHKO/cripple you.
And Heatran is weak to Scizor's Superpower, Salamence's EQ, and Gyarados's Waterfall. Selling points aren't weaknesses, as 491 pokemon have atleast one of them. Resistances, stats, movepools, abilities, etc, are selling points, which is why Aggron could very well become OU(based on usage, I know, but people use pokemon that work).
So what is a valuable selling point for Aggron then? Aggrons Rock Head ability or his worthless speed? His 150 BP move or its only 80% accuracy(which is as much as Stone Egde, what is a move that likes to miss)?
I don't really get the hype around Aggron. It is slow as hell and will only be dangerous if it gets off a Rock Polish. Even then priority can handle him quite well.
Let's see:
-10 resistances, of which 1 is an immunity(useful for switching into Blissey, and Toxic Spikes, but nothing special), but the important resistances he has are ice, rock, dragon, and dark, all of which are particularly threatening in the OU metagame
-150 BP(225 after STAB) physical rock move(excellent typing), only drawback being 80% accuracy and PP(Stone Edge is still one of the most used moves despite this flaw).
-Rock typing grants it a special defense boost in sand, allowing him to have 344 HP / 397 Def / 360 SpD, quite impressive for something with the palette of resistances that Aggron has.
-110 base attack allows him to 1-2HKO the majority of pokemon that don't resist it, even walls.
-Support moves like Roar, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Magnet Rise, and Stealth Rock, all of which are particularly useful for the current OU metagame
-His counters rely on either Choice Scarf(for Rock Polish) or are grounded, meaning a simple Toxic Spiker or bulky grass type handles the majority of his counters
-I probably forgot something, other than his defense, which I should atleast mention is 396 without investment
it breaks stall for free and if it gets in on something that has to switch (choice locked resisted attack/outrage or blissey, skarmory, etc.) it nets a free ko. It isn't something that stays in and sweeps, it just comes in, kos something really quick and leaves for later use. That's what all the hype is about.
also, the speed is enough to beat the standard skarmory and scizor, so while it might be crap it still isn't worthless