Okay, so we have under two months to complete this so I'm going to give my input on a few of the TBD mons I've been testing recently.
Make yourself a Coffee to enjoy while you read this one~
Kangaskhan-Mega to C-/D:
- Offensive sets outclassed by Extreme Killer Arceus.
- Defensive sets aren't bulky enough to withstand pressure of most attackers.
- This renders Defensive the only logical set to run; however, still takes up mega slot.
- Outclassed by Chansey, Blissey, Alomomola and Clefable as Wish passer.
- Has higher damage output at a solid 200 each time (Seismic Toss), which gives it an acceptable niche.
- This damage isn't enough to 2HKO most prevalent threats within the metagame, and becomes excessively useless against anything that bears a recovery move.
- Loses 1v1 to all five S ranks, bar Xerneas depending on set and still requires predictions; however, this is only for the Offensive Kang set, which I've stated is outclassed by standard EK Arc.
- Pretty much no reason to use on any playstyle when superior megas work that aren't outclassed by so many things.
Aegislash to C/C-:
- Effective counter to Xerneas and Fairy Arceus; however, Jirachi and Poison Arceus perform this better.
- Required to King's Shield every second turn to achieve the bulk it requires to do this aforementioned task.
- Banded Aegislash sets remove any defensive utility it provides, therefore hindering its capability to counter the two threats listed above.
- Banded Aegislash seems to be the equivalent to Specs Deoxys-Attack in this regard, quite useless except this is literally the greatest set up fodder in the game if it mispredicts, at least Specs Deoxys-A isn't equal to forfeiting your opportunity to win.
- TheHungrySage: Not as passive as people think, here's a Banded set.
- Why do all the calcs show Aegislash as paralysed? Who in their right mind paralyses an Aegislash?
- You state it hits hard without, hmm.
+1 252+ Atk Paralyzed Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 382-451 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (66 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 169-199 (44.2 - 52%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO
- Do you understand why this logic is flawed though? It literally requires paralysis to obtain these desirable calcs.
+1 252+ Atk Paralyzed Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Lugia: 297-349 (71.3 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Requires paralysis, doesn't take Multiscale into account, only hits 75% of the time because of Paralysis; adjusted calc:
+1 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 198-233 (47.5 - 56%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hits 80% of the time, Lugia can stall out with Roost since Head Smash has low PP; however, if you opted for the move you stated:
+1 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (51 BP) vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 51-60 (12.2 - 14.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+1 252+ Atk Paralyzed Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96+ Def Arceus-Ground: 321-378 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
What is this Ground Arceus set? A frailer version of the Support set listed? + Paralysis again.
+1 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Ground: 96-114 (21.6 - 25.6%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Paralyzed Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 130-153 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO
Why would anyone believe these calcs lol??!
+1 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Gyro Ball (34 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 30-36 (7.4 - 8.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
- Megaqwer was completely correct in saying what he said, yet Sage got three likes compared to Megaqwer getting one. Then you say you forfeit this point later on, yet it's like 90% of your entire post. :?
- That being said you also forfeit the next point, because it relies on things switching in (which they evidently can)
- "Varied possible sets" - throw this out the window too, it has one set that can sometimes run Pursuit > Toxic or Sacred Sword > Toxic; that's not really enough to cut it.
- So by getting rid of that one point, you've essentially thrown out all your arguments bar the first "A counter to fairies", which really isn't enough to justify C+ when much more useful Pokémon such as Jirachi and Clefable make up this rank.
- By the way, Sage. It's not called a rebuttal if you just concede all your points lol.
- Comparison to other C+ Pokémon:
- Clefable - Walls Arceus (EK and Plated), Darkrai, Yveltal and/or Xerneas depending on set; provides much needed Aromatherapy support, Wish, Access to Minimize and has more than one usable set. Also checks Mega Rayquaza, surviving Ascent even when Clefable has no investment in PhysDef.
- Ditto - Acts as a prevention for any setup sweepers, just having this in the back can be so useful. Blanket checks almost any offensive Pokémon. Has only one set, but as you said earlier "not comparable".
- Genesect - Great U-turn pivot, Access to nice coverage, Bug Buzz to check Darkrai, soft checks Xerneas, Reaches nice speed tier when equiped with a Scarf. Has access to Explosion which can OHKO Ho-Oh after acquiring the Attack boost. Variety of alternate Scarf sets it can run, but pretty monotonous in terms of amount of sets it can run since it's usually limited to Scarf.
- Jirachi - While it isn't necessarily as good at checking Xerneas as Aegislash, it provides enough utility to efficiently do so anyway. Enough = Xerneas doesn't require such a dedicated check in Aegislash. Jirachi can run an Offensive Scarf set or a Specially Defensive utility set. Access to Healing Wish, Trick, Thunder Wave. Serene Grace allows Jirachi to just become a nuisance as well; however, relying on flinches isn't an absolute necessity.
Compare this to Aegislash
- Aegislash - Walls fairy Pokémon, Toxic stalls somewhat decently, Niche Protect that allows Status to come through. Unlike others has access to set-up; however, still piss weak and can't OHKO anything at +2. (Shit defensive typing means this is a necessity).
- Forget to mention how it loses to the other four S Ranks very easily, plus 4/5 A+ Ranks.
- Will-O-Wisp Fairyceus (the most common Fairyceus set...) pretty much hard checks Aegislash (assuming it hits).
- Clefable is slow enough to take less than half from Gyro, stalls out with Wish/Moonlight/Softboiled.
- TheHungrySage, speaking of essays; how's the Zekrom one coming along?
Blissey to C+:
- Walls the majority of Special attackers within the metagame (CM Arceus formes, Xerneas, Kyogre (Primal and non) and sometimes even Mega Gengar and Darkrai depending on the set.
- Access to Thunder Wave, Toxic, Wish, Soft-boiled, Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, Seismic Toss, Natural Cure, Stealth Rock, Healing Wish (I guess?!?).
- Most effective Special wall in the metagame bar Ho-Oh and Lugia, as the former provides substantial offensive utility and the latter has incredible natural bulk when paired with an ability in Multiscale. Still these two are heavily crippled by status, while Blissey is not.
- Unlike other Special walls, isn't trapped and disfigured by PerishTrap Mega Gengar.
- Walls Klefki without any team support.
- Shakes off Klefki's status ailments thanks to Natural Cure and Confusion's non permanence.
- Unfortunately, held back by lack of Physical bulk and requirement to run Shed Shell.
- Opts for 248 HP / 252+ SpD set, which unfortunately is needed to survive 2x Primal Water Spout from full guaranteed.
- Here's a proper counter to fairies (bar Diancie)
TheHungrySage :)
- Calcs:
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 265-313 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 338-398 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Heavy Rain: 301-355 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Heavy Rain: 220-261 (30.8 - 36.6%) -- 65.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 98-116 (13.7 - 16.2%) -- possible 7HKO
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 88-105 (12.3 - 14.7%) -- possible 7HKO
252 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 109-129 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 79-94 (11 - 13.1%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 111-132 (15.5 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 146-173 (20.4 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 221-260 (30.9 - 36.4%) -- 65.7% chance to 3HKO
- Replays:
- Also because of the increasing rarity of Taunt / Perish Song Mega Gengar within the metagame, would it be a bright idea to rank Chansey as well? Ubers have done it for reasons that also make sense here, and while I don't like comparing our metagame to Ubers, or basing our ranking decisions based off Ubers; I believe ranking Chansey truly makes sense especially with the way the current metagame is going. TBD fine?
Greninja to D/Unranked:
- Subpar Toxic Spikes setter
- While it carries with it a pleasant offensive movepool and presence, its lack of bulk doesn't allow it to survive much, usually setting one spike.
- Carries Taunt to prevent Stealth Rock setup from Primal Groudon and whatnot; however, is outclassed by Cloyster in almost every way.
- Scolipede and Tentacruel are also more potent than Greninja, as they can actually take hits / deal damage.
- While Greninja has a nice attack stat and coverage, it is OHKOd by the most common Pokémon in the metagame, while loses 1v1 to the other four S Ranks.
- Protean borderline useless in AG, especially for a Pokémon that is only used as a Toxic Spikes setter.
- Has access to bad typing priority in Water Shuriken, and while Shadow Sneak is nice, it's just too weak when considering Greninja's lowish Attack stat (when compared to other Pokémon within the metagame).
- There's almost no reason to use this over other Toxic Spikes users.
Shaymin-Sky to C:
- Only real comparison is Jirachi as the two perform quite similar roles.
- Weak to most common move in the metagame, Extreme Speed, while Jirachi resists it.
- Has access to Leech Seed, and hence can abuse SubSeed sets, but then again is too weak to the omnipresent priority to function efficiently.
- Jirachi has access to Trick, and can run a few viable sets, so can Shaymin-Sky however.
- Jirachi is a check to Fairies, while Shaymin-Sky doesn't really check anything.
- Relies on flinching to succeed, Jirachi isn't this monotonous in its functionality.
- Jirachi has access to Thunder Wave to gain Speed control it needs to make up for Speed difference, while has the bulk and typing to actually do something.
- Jirachi's flinchy flinchy doesn't miss.
- While the majority of this argument is outlining the flaws Skymin has in comparison to Jirachi, a solo argument could be made just off of how weak it is to priority.
- 2/5 S Ranks run Priority on 95% of their sets, 1/5 runs a Scarf set almost 50% of the time that OHKOs this, the other two just win if Air Slash doesn't flinch or misses. (By using usage to support this argument, the five S ranks are also the five most used Pokémon in AG)
- Like this thing just dies first turn 40% of the time if an opponent decides to take their chances.
- Support it if you will, I'm not good at arguing about this Pokémon.
- TL;DR: Jirachi is a check for fairies and rocks while being able to flinchy flinchy, Shaymin-Sky is just a flinchy flinchy mon.
Arceus-Grass to D:
- Checks Primal Kyogre + Water Arceus + Ground Arceus + Primal Groudon if it isn't running Fire Punch / Plume / Eruption
- Soft check for Smeargle (because no one runs Dark Void)
- Can lure Ho-Oh I guess? but then you're required to run 144 Atk EVs to always OHKO and that doesn't allow Grassceus to take 2 Ice Beams.
- Absorbs powder moves / leech seed lol? This makes it a Ferrothorn check if it runs Fire coverage I guess.
- But it's bad, because defensive typing and almost useless in most cases.
- Somewhat outclassed by Lati formes even.
- Has anyone even used this seriously? I don't see a reason why anyone would.
Palkia to C-/D:
- Awful offensive typing, awful defensive typing
- Suboptimal offensive and defensive stats.
- Checks Kyogre, and that's it!
- Loses to all five S ranks 1v1
- Positive for once: Scares away Mega Rayquaza pre-Mega, as well as providing a somewhat nice offensive presence (if I'm being generous).
- Primal Groudon / Xerneas / Arc-Fairy prevalence just makes this thing's life hell.
- All three can switchin and OHKO while Palkia can't barely do anything in return.
- Oh I found another Pokémon Grass Arceus can check :P
- There's no threat within the metagame in which this Pokémon can capitalise off of, it just does a poor job against anything really.
- It sucks, why do I need to argue for this?
- I don't have a proper argument for Palkia I admit, I was kind of exhausted after writing the rest of this post. I just want to hurry the obvious things up so we have stuff to base other nominations off / we can finish on time.
thanks for reading!!
n_n