Arcanine

[breh]

if running a SD team, has anybody tried Specially Defensive Nine?

Something like:

Flare Blitz/Volt Change Derp I still get it and Wild Bolt mixed up (or Toxic) /Extremspeed/Morning Sun?

I liked specially defensive nine in UU last gen; this gen it should be good also, especially because burungeru boiling waters are far weaker than milo surfs. hell do you even need to run SD to stall it out of them? Actually MS heals about the same amount in SS that no attack burungeru does with boiling water... lololol

 

[alphatron]

Volt Change? You mean Wild bolt, right?

I've tried him and he is awesome. Due to the prevalence of SS teams running around though, I prefer offensive Nine even on SD teams.

 

[Ericcc]

Has anyone given mixed Arcanine a thought? Hm...

Something like
Arcanine @ LO
Intimidate/Flash Fire
252 ATT/ 216 SPE (to hit 280) and 42 SpAtt
Flare Blitz
Wild Bolt
HP Grass
Close Combat

No ES of course, but the addition of HP Grass lets it kill things like Swampert and Quagsire
(not doing calcs)
And Fire, Electric, Grass, and Fighting moves are an amazing combination for coverage. Alternatively, HP Ice is an option to hit the Dragons, but they will likely be outspeeding you most of the time

 

[alphatron]

You're not killing Swampert at all with that.

 

[Ericcc]

Ah you're right. :l
It's 62.8% - 74.8%

Well, something to ponder upon...

Maybe Specially based with CC. No recoil. And possibly Wild Bolt with just enough ATT EV's to kill things like Gyarados (?) maybe.

 

[Kai-Miz]

That mix arcanine set is really just an inferior Infernape.

Anyway I'd go full physical, dropping hp grass for xspeed. Iirc even with max spatk he still can't OHKO Swampert with hp grass so he's probably better off just swapping out or firing off a CC.

 

[Celest]

I used to use Morning Sun Arcanine in gen4, but weather is being used WAY too often now. The chances that you'll get stuck against a Rain or Sand team are extremely high, leaving you with a 33% recovery. Unless you're running a really bulky set, you're much better off just attacking, and having wish support.

 

[Benlisted]

if running a SD team, has anybody tried Specially Defensive Nine?

Something like:

Flare Blitz/Volt Change Derp I still get it and Wild Bolt mixed up (or Toxic) /Extremspeed/Morning Sun?

I liked specially defensive nine in UU last gen; this gen it should be good also, especially because burungeru boiling waters are far weaker than milo surfs. hell do you even need to run SD to stall it out of them? Actually MS heals about the same amount in SS that no attack burungeru does with boiling water... lololol

I used to use Morning Sun Arcanine in gen4, but weather is being used WAY too often now. The chances that you'll get stuck against a Rain or Sand team are extremely high, leaving you with a 33% recovery. Unless you're running a really bulky set, you're much better off just attacking, and having wish support.

I run an offensive SD Nine who has CC, Flare Blitz, Extremespeed and Morning Sun, and it is pretty useful against everything but bulky waters (who chlorophyll pokes just love). It has the basic bulk to take a few hits without investment, and Morning Sun makes it pretty durable even after Flare Blitzing a few things down from max HP, something invaluable when so many of Sun's sweepers run LO.

 

[Celest]

I run an offensive SD Nine who has CC, Flare Blitz, Extremespeed and Morning Sun, and it is pretty useful against everything but bulky waters (who chlorophyll pokes just love). It has the basic bulk to take a few hits without investment, and Morning Sun makes it pretty durable even after Flare Blitzing a few things down from max HP, something invaluable when so many of Sun's sweepers run LO.

Just because you run a weather team doesn't mean weather can't be changed. But if it's working for you, I won't dispute. Just saying I feel pure offense is a better idea with him now.

 

[Benlisted]

Just because you run a weather team doesn't mean weather can't be changed. But if it's working for you, I won't dispute. Just saying I feel pure offense is a better idea with him now.

Of course, but he has little issue with TTar or Abomasnow in any case, helping to revenge them even with weather down.

Essentially I am running a 252/252 spread offensively, but simply using Morning Sun as I feel he does not need the coverage Wild Bolt provides with the rest of my team dealing well with waters. So he may as well get the added survivability, I suppose.

 

[Quantum TH]

I might just bring my D/P Barkanine set back. It'd probably work pretty well with Wild Bolt or Close Combat (that's what I'm counting on, shame one of those would get me walled by some pretty common stuff).

Would Agility, Flare Blitz, Close Combat, and Wild Bolt be a bad set by any chance?

 

[Celest]

I think the problem with agility would be the lack of power. Adamant LO works well because I can finish with Xtremespeed. With agility, you only gain speed, but that inability to OHKO some threats remains, and you'll likely be stuck with +2 speed as the opponent switches in their counter(who you probably 2HKOed if you just started hitting off the bat).
But that's just my thoughts on it.

 

[Ericcc]

I might just bring my D/P Barkanine set back. It'd probably work pretty well with Wild Bolt or Close Combat (that's what I'm counting on, shame one of those would get me walled by some pretty common stuff).

Would Agility, Flare Blitz, Close Combat, and Wild Bolt be a bad set by any chance?

Probably would be better just running a Choice Scarf
As above poster said, you'd likely be forced to switch out anyway.

 

[Nubbins]

Two recoil moves and a stat dropper? DAAMMNN.

 

[Quantum TH]

You could slap a Life Orb on an Agility Arcanine too, maybe a Liechi Berry if you're daring...

But I see what you mean. Barkanine would probably be more useful since the attack goes up and powers up ExtremeSpeed. Nothing wrong with stupid-strong priority after all.

 

[Loves_Eo]

I feel Arcanine will be doing a lot better than Infernape this Gen. Infernape is hella faster and a lot harder to switch in then arcanine, and once there he dies pretty quickly with recoil/priority/rocks up. LeadApe will take the cake over Nine, but as a pure sweeper I think Arcanine is going to be much better.

 

[Ericcc]

I feel Arcanine will be doing a lot better than Infernape this Gen. Infernape is hella faster and a lot harder to switch in then arcanine, and once there he dies pretty quickly with recoil/priority/rocks up. LeadApe will take the cake over Nine, but as a pure sweeper I think Arcanine is going to be much better.

Let's not forget that Ape does get the STAB on CC...

 

[Twins]

Let's not forget that Ape does get the STAB on CC...

And only takes 12.5% from SR...

 

[IcyMan28]

I feel Arcanine will be doing a lot better than Infernape this Gen. Infernape is hella faster and a lot harder to switch in then arcanine, and once there he dies pretty quickly with recoil/priority/rocks up. LeadApe will take the cake over Nine, but as a pure sweeper I think Arcanine is going to be much better.

Let's not get too hasty. All Arcanine has gained is CC (which Infernape gets STAB on), +2 Priority Extremespeed, and Wild Bolt. The latter is almost irrelevant as Infernape can muscle past bulky waters with +2 CC anyway, its not like Arcanine has THAT much more attack anyway.

Arcanine is one of the more bulky Fire-types around, and it needs to take advantage of that in some way, IMO. Infernape has more to worry about from Blaziken, IMO.

Anyways, does anyone think this is enough to push Arcanine out of UU in the transition to Gen 5? 252 Atk Adamant Arcanine 2HKOs Max/Max Bold Milotic with unboosted Wild Bolt, which is pretty great. I don't play too much UU, but I'd imagine that between a strong +2 priority Extremespeed and the natural coverage of Fire + Electric and Morning Sun recovery, checking it may be significantly more difficult.

 

[PokéMontage]

Arcanine seems to be one of the few Pokemon that GF enjoys giving boosts to each generation *Flareon sobs*

He has, no doubt, gotten more powerful, but I think it's too early to be discussing it getting pushed into BL. There's going to be a pretty big influx of UU pokemon due to all of the additions, both new and old (previous OU's that fall into disuse).

 

[Cooky]

In OU he faces obvious competition from Infernape, Blaziken and Hihidaruma (no Emboar..), given that they all have similar roles.

Arcanine's pros are that he is technically the bulkiest, although SR weakness mitigates this somewhat compared to the part fighters, and gets Extreemspeed (The main reason for using him I believe), Wild Volt and Morning Sun. STAB on Close Combat isn't really needed, he's only targeting Blissey / Chansey / Tyranitar / Sazandora and possibly Zuzurikin and they are generally OHKO'd anyway, and Wild Volt deals with the majority of Bulky Waters (run from Swampert).

However Infernape and Blaziken are faster, have higher mixed attacking stats, access to effective stat boosting moves (no Howl doesn't count its almost entirely pointless), Infernape has a better movepool with Mach Punch, Thunderpunch and Grass Knot and Blaziken has Speed Boost and Baton Pass. Hihidaruma is just a steamroller with huge base Attack and Encourage to boost Flare Blitz and Rock Slide, as well as Superpower and U-Turn to complete him.

I suppose its a personal choice, but he does seem somewhat outclassed as a sweeper, and is too easily countered by stall in Swampert and Hippowdon and in offense by the multitude of fast Dragon types that are on almost every team. I really can't picture him being heavily effective, but he is still very usable if you just think he's bloody cool.

Seems to be headed for BL now Milotic falls to Wild Volt and Rhyperior to Close Combat. Quite annoying really, we'll never see him in competitive play again...

 

[Benlisted]

I suppose its a personal choice, but he does seem somewhat outclassed as a sweeper, and is too easily countered by stall in Swampert and Hippowdon and in offense by the multitude of fast Dragon types that are on almost every team. I really can't picture him being heavily effective, but he is still very usable if you just think he's bloody cool.

Seems to be headed for BL now Milotic falls to Wild Volt and Rhyperior to Close Combat. Quite annoying really, we'll never see him in competitive play again...

In all honesty I'd agree that he is outclassed as a sweeper in general. With Intimidate, Morning Sun and decent bulk, his place is definitely as a tank if he's used in OU (with the boon of Extremespeed ofc).

However, in Sun teams he has an unusual niche, in my opinion. Morning Sun can serve to greatly boost his bulk, and CC and Wild Volt allow it to deal with Politoed and TTar easily and effectively, a great boon. (interestingly, Adamant 252 CC then Extremespeed can take out Lati twins switching into take the CC if they lack defensive investment).

Moreover, however, he is the only Fire type aside from the slow and frail Shanderaa and Heatran to get Flash Fire - a great ability to take those attacks aimed at your Grass types.

 

[PokéMontage]

he is the only Fire type aside from the slow and frail Shanderaa and Heatran to get Flash Fire

There are other Flash Fire Pokemon besides those 3:
Ninetales
Rapidash
Flareon
Houndoom
Kuitaran (anteater)
Typhlosion
Entei

But yes, he's one of the more useful ones.

 

[Loves_Eo]

I think Arcanine will find himself more on bulky offense. He has great general bulk, as well as intimidate, which is a great ability. He gets relatively reliable recovery outside of rest (i'm not sure any other fire type is bulky and has recovery like Arc) He also has good attack for a 'wall' which means he can at least damage switchins. Could see a bit of a toxic stalling set, since he hits SE everything immune to toxic and could potentially (and by that I mean have the potential, not guaranteed) to stall out those who aren't immune, given the right conditions.

Yes he is outclassed by other fire types as a sweeper, but Infernape and Blaziken (two main examples) are lot less bulkier. You might say they're more pure glass cannon, while arcanine is a mixed wall/sweeper.

 

[Benlisted]

There are other Flash Fire Pokemon besides those 3:
Ninetales
Rapidash
Flareon
Houndoom
Kuitaran (anteater)
Typhlosion
Entei

But yes, he's one of the more useful ones.

Haha yeah, in terms of utility for a Sun team he and the guys I mentioned are the most useful, with Typh too, but his ability hasn't been released yet.