All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

[Frostyt]

Ah idk if this is the right place to post so happy to repost elsewhere

I havent played crystal in 10 years and an argument popped up between 3 of my mates whos the best player. Anyways we came up with a custom rule setting

Curse/belly ban on snorlax
No legendaries (suicune, zapdos etc.)
Gen 2 moves only (no swords dance sandslash/growth espeon)

The rules completely shift the meta, (mainly the no gen 1 moves) guess im curious which pokemon arent as viable rather than whats good. Would skarmory be less valuble without checking curselax or without swords dance can marowak still be used?

I havent formed a solid team. I really want to use scizor/jolteon/starmie but will break the core if it isnt usable. I drafted up scizor/jolteon/starmie/snorlax/rhydon/spike setter (fort and cloy seem unuseble with this team so lil stumped.)

Any advice to help me progress to making a decision would be greatly appreciated

 

[Mr.E]

Forretress is already a gen 2 mon, so I don't see how its viability is affected at all. I assume "Gen 2 moves only" means no tradebacks. Growth is an NYPC move for Eeveelutions though, so there's something contradictory there.

Metagame-wise, you're mostly looking at Zapdos/Raikou not being there and so the stuff that is traditionally weak against them gets much stronger. Even Jolteon as the traditional third best Electric is much weaker without Growth. Of course, non-Growth Vaporeon is effectively null and Suicune is also banned, so yeah STarmie's kinda last Water standing there. Skarmory? Snorlax is still good and relevant to counter, Marowak is still just fine without SD albeit not a universe killer (though it gets much weaker without its defensive utility of pivoting around Thunder), and with Zapdos gone it's the only real counter left to Heracross.

 

[Frostyt]

Thanks for that, fort was in context with the draft team i mocked up. As for the team do you know if that core would be decent or not ideal?

 

[matthewc20090]

in bw ou, why is sun so good and being used so much, especially in spl? why wasn't it used much before?

 

[Oglemi]

in bw ou, why is sun so good and being used so much, especially in spl? why wasn't it used much before?

It was used up until the weather + speed boost ability ban, venusaur was actually considered broken by some which is part of what led to it. After that people were just figuring out a way to make sun work, and now they have with cress sun stall.

 

[Wizard]

in bw ou, why is sun so good and being used so much, especially in spl? why wasn't it used much before?

Sun has always been used. In 2013 for example both Sun Bulky Offense / even HO sometimes and Sun Stall were commonly seen in ladder. The metagame then changed because bw stopped being the current generation and people fossilized upon certain "reliable" builds. These builds were extremely weak to Sun and this led to the ban of Chlorophyll in 2015: Sun, that has always been a shaping force of bw, now was considered a 'cheesy' strategy, something that was unhealthy for the competition. After the Venusaur ban at first it seemed like Sun was over because Venu was an extremely good glue mon (rkiller, sleeper, setup sweeper, keldeo check all in one) and losing it meant losing consistency. However, that stupid ban actually made the mainstream builds even weaker to Sun because it gave builders the impression they wouldn't have needed anymore to prepare to Sun. When people discovered the playstyle was viable even without Chlorophyll, teams like Leftiez's and Tokyo Tom's started popping out here and there. It stopped being a 'sleeping op' strategy during this spl because Excadrill finally forced the metagame to develop, after all these years of artificial stasis. But someone wants to turn back the clock...

 

[Frostyt]

This is the final team i came up with with the limitations above. Any tweaks or advice would be awesome cheers

 

[sumwun]

In generations 2 and 3, which held items are best for single battles with item clause (because you can't just give leftovers to everything)?

 

[Jellicent]

In generations 2 and 3, which held items are best for single battles with item clause (because you can't just give leftovers to everything)?

Gen 2 is pretty limited, though I'd say Marowak and its Thick Club look pretty appealing with item clause on. Miracle Berry's nice for curing any status, while Mint Berry could give you an instant wake up from Rest. I'd probably go with hax items other than those (Quick Claw, Scope Lens, King's Rock, etc.), though the type boosters (Pink Bow, Magnet, etc.) could also work. Just keep in mind they're only 10% boosts instead of 20% like Gen 4+.

Gen 3's a bit better off. It has Choice Band, which is huge. Lum and Chesto replace Miracle and Mint Berries, but a few other berries are worthwhile as well. Petaya / Liechi / Salac can give you a nice stat boost, and Substitute or Endeavor sets can get you into that range more reliably. Shell Bell's also an option as a pseudo-Leftovers on an offensive Pokemon. Most of the hax items are slightly worse than in Gen 2, while the newly added Lax Incense is only half as effective as Gen 4+. If you're playing Ubers, Soul Dew is definitely worth a slot.

 

[FDK]

Gen 3 in-game question (FR/LG):

Shellder learns Ice Beam at Lv 50, Cloyster learns Spikes at Lv 36 and Ice Beam by TM. How do I get both moves on a Cloyster without going to the Game Corner?

 

[Lavos]

Gen 3 in-game question (FR/LG):

Shellder learns Ice Beam at Lv 50, Cloyster learns Spikes at Lv 36 and Ice Beam by TM. How do I get both moves on a Cloyster without going to the Game Corner?

In the house next to the Pokemon Center in Fuschia, there's a guy called the Pokemon Move Maniac. He will let your Pokemon learn any move of its current level or prior in its natural learnset (so if you had a Lv 50 Cloyster, he could teach it Spikes) in exchange for two TinyMushrooms or one BigMushroom. You can find these items on wild Paras/Parasect, you might even have some already. So for your case I'd level Shellder to 50 without evolving it, teach it Ice Beam (to save yourself the TM), let it evolve into Cloyster, and then bring Cloyster to the Move Maniac and teach it Spikes.

 

[FDK]

Shit I sold my mushrooms, but thanks. Move Manic = Move Reminder right?

 

[Lavos]

Shit I sold my mushrooms, but thanks. Move Manic = Move Reminder right?

Yeah, same thing. If you need to find Paras you can go down a ladder in Mt. Moon and they're 100% find rate in those little passageways.

 

[legenWFIdary]

Hi Smogon Community,

My first post here so I'll try to be as accurate as possible!

I have a question concerning Sleep talk in gen 2 :
I have been using a RestTalk+Thunder set on a Zapdos which seems pretty standard according to https://www.smogon.com/dex/gs/pokemon/zapdos/
However, it seems that when using Sleep Talk and Thunder is selected, Thunder misses very often.

I was thus wondering if the 70% accuracy of Thunder was kept with sleep talk or if it was lower and why?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

 

[ToadNorton]

Hi Smogon Community,

My first post here so I'll try to be as accurate as possible!

I have a question concerning Sleep talk in gen 2 :
I have been using a RestTalk+Thunder set on a Zapdos which seems pretty standard according to https://www.smogon.com/dex/gs/pokemon/zapdos/
However, it seems that when using Sleep Talk and Thunder is selected, Thunder misses very often.

I was thus wondering if the 70% accuracy of Thunder was kept with sleep talk or if it was lower and why?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

Sleep talk takes the accuracy of the move it calls, you have just been unlucky in hitting your Thunders.

 

[legenWFIdary]

Sleep talk takes the accuracy of the move it calls, you have just been unlucky in hitting your Thunders.

Thank you!

 

[Marigold]

I’m developing a revamped RBY metagame. Would I try to get a thread approved here in “ruins of alph”? Or in “other metagames”?

 

[Zukrad]

I noticed there is no "Doubles" resources in the ADV, DPPt and BW resource thread, why is that? Is it just disinterest from the community in old gen doubles, or am I just looking wrong? If the former is correct so, any recomendation to place where I can find old gen doubles archives?

 

[Bughouse]

I noticed there is no "Doubles" resources in the ADV, DPPt and BW resource thread, why is that? Is it just disinterest from the community in old gen doubles, or am I just looking wrong? If the former is correct so, any recomendation to place where I can find old gen doubles archives?

Doubles didn’t formally exist on Smogon until BW. Some BW resources are in the doubles forum.
Some people have recently tried to start testing out a doubles metagame in DPP so you can find minimal DPP discusssion in the Doubles forum as well.

 

[Lusch]

I’m developing a revamped RBY metagame. Would I try to get a thread approved here in “ruins of alph”? Or in “other metagames”?

I cannot answer your question, but how does this revamped RBY metagame look?

 

[Marigold]

I cannot answer your question, but how does this revamped RBY metagame look?

Normally I'd PM about this, but maybe others are wondering too. It's inspired a lot by Pokemon Violet, a mod that was previously made with the goal of overhauling standard RBY. This metagame has the same goal. My entire proposed metagame's documentation is here (links to a google doc). The document includes...

metagame philosophy
mechanical changes (modern typechart, sleep/freeze nerfs, recovery move failing, 1/256 miss removed, team preview on)
buffs to previously bad move types
buffs to previously subpar pokemon (movepool additions, type changes, stat buffs), complete with brief analyses for each pokemon
speed tier compendium
type category compendium

Coding it with visualization is a WIP and a daunting task to work with the showdown client, but it is playable without visualization on a custom showdown server of mine.

My plan was to make a thread once the metagame is fully visualized, or get enough attention to make it a metagame of the month and have it coded on showdown's side.

 

[Misdreavus]

I'm looking at the ADV Ubers Mini-Analyses Thread and have a few questions:

1. I'm a bit surprised to see Double-Edge on the Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, and Ho-Oh CB sets. Are Fire Punch (with a Lonely nature), HP Ghost, and HP Flying worth running over Double-Edge on these respective Pokémon? I see RMTs that have these changes (1, 2).

2. Is Bold the ideal nature for Lugia? The analysis on the site says that most sets need a Speed stat of at least 307 (to outspeed Groudon and Kyogre), which requires a significant investment with a Bold nature.

3. Does CB Ho-Oh miss out on any important KOs with Sacred Fire by running Adamant over Lonely?

 

[Maya Chansey]

Normally I'd PM about this, but maybe others are wondering too. It's inspired a lot by Pokemon Violet, a mod that was previously made with the goal of overhauling standard RBY. This metagame has the same goal. My entire proposed metagame's documentation is here (links to a google doc). The document includes...

metagame philosophy
mechanical changes (modern typechart, sleep/freeze nerfs, recovery move failing, 1/256 miss removed, team preview on)
buffs to previously bad move types
buffs to previously subpar pokemon (movepool additions, type changes, stat buffs), complete with brief analyses for each pokemon
speed tier compendium
type category compendium

Coding it with visualization is a WIP and a daunting task to work with the showdown client, but it is playable without visualization on a custom showdown server of mine.

My plan was to make a thread once the metagame is fully visualized, or get enough attention to make it a metagame of the month and have it coded on showdown's side.

Wow, this sounds cool! Would it be possible for you to privately message me the link to your custom server so I can try out the meta? It seems very interesting and fun to me.

Edit: If you can't send it to me, that's fine. I understand that some people don't want to share their work when it's not yet complete.

 

[Tszuki]

Is there a thread to learn the mechanics of GSC OU? Like the fundamentals so I can get started

 

[OrangeGuru]

Is there a thread to learn the mechanics of GSC OU? Like the fundamentals so I can get started

Borat's guide from a few years ago still works pretty well, especially if you are looking for fundamentals. Part 6 is the most recent guide and would be the most relevant. Hope this helps!