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Blissey, Milotic, Suicune and Starmie laugh at that set, Aerodactyl and Jolteon are faster than 252 +1 Modest Blastoise, and Celebi (even with 252+ Modest Ice Beam) can wall you, but provided you're facing a Swampert team without Blissey or Celebi, it should work as much as a Hydro Cannon Blastoise possibly could. Also expect an opponent with DD Salamence or DD Tyranitar to sweep you immediately after you use Hydro Cannon if you manage to KO something with it.

Here's the best I could come up with to work with what you want:
Blastoise @ Salac Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Cannon
- Toxic / Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Substitute

232 speed at +1 outspeeds Jolly Dugtrio, and also lets Blastoise set up a sub against opposing Waters, with the rest of the EVs dumped in HP. More speed beyond that doesn't help as far as I can tell. Toxic gives Blastoise a more lasting presence by crippling opposing Pokemon, while Ice Beam helps against Flygon, Salamence and Celebi. Ideally you'd want to fire the Hydro Cannon on the turn it would die from passive damage (sand, Toxic/Burn) so the enemy can't abuse the recharge turn.
Dude this is much more help than i deserved. I hope that you enjoyed the time you took to wright this analysis. Thank you very much. Also this will probably see little to zero play in my ou games but will be played on my mono type team and uu teams.
 
Random question: Why was BL so big during RSE?
Back then, we didn't have usage statistics so making tiers was a heavily arbitrary decision based on each pokemon's usage and all-around usefulness in the metagame. At some point the standard UU power level (let's call it that) was set around metagame staples like Electabuzz/Scyther/Vileplume/Fearow/Golem/Hypno, of course this was completely arbitrary.
BL was basically the UU banlist, and it included mons like Alakazam, Dodrio or Rhydon which were definitely not OU, but deemed "too strong" for the perceived UU metagame power level.
Some tournaments around 2003-2004 (for example Summer Freedom) had a weird format where you could use one BL in your UU team. In the following years there was much debate on this issue, by late RSE it was settled that BLs were completely banned.

Basically people really liked playing Fearow and Golem so Dodrio and Rhydon were banned because of that.

AFAIK Kangaskhan evaded the banlist and remained in UU forever, despite it being the most powerful mon in the meta.
 
Back then, we didn't have usage statistics so making tiers was a heavily arbitrary decision based on each pokemon's usage and all-around usefulness in the metagame. At some point the standard UU power level (let's call it that) was set around metagame staples like Electabuzz/Scyther/Vileplume/Fearow/Golem/Hypno, of course this was completely arbitrary.
BL was basically the UU banlist, and it included mons like Alakazam, Dodrio or Rhydon which were definitely not OU, but deemed "too strong" for the perceived UU metagame power level.
Some tournaments around 2003-2004 (for example Summer Freedom) had a weird format where you could use one BL in your UU team. In the following years there was much debate on this issue, by late RSE it was settled that BLs were completely banned.

Basically people really liked playing Fearow and Golem so Dodrio and Rhydon were banned because of that.

AFAIK Kangaskhan evaded the banlist and remained in UU forever, despite it being the most powerful mon in the meta.

Do you think the minds of smogon will ever go back and evaluate the ADV meta again?
 

Earthworm

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Why is trapping so much more viable and uncompetitive in GSC than it is in newer games?
It isn't. Some form of trapping is banned in virtually every generation (e.g. Wobbuffet, Dugtrio).

If you are particularly referring to why Misdreavus with Hypnosis Mean Look Perish Song is broken, and potentially Smeargle with Spider Web/Spore, it is because everything has 252 EVs in every stat and there are far fewer powerful moves, which means it is far more difficult to KO things quickly, which leads to a lot of slower Pokemon becoming more viable, and a combination of those two factors leads to it becoming very difficult to reasonably stop the strategies from being executed in comparison to the gens following it. The chance of sleep lasting a very long time (6 turns max) also contributes to this.
 
Is there any format on here or Showdown similar to the 2006 Journey Across America format (basically ADV Ubers doubles)?

Also, does anyone have an ADV Ubers team building guide? In particular, I'm wondering about the viability of mixing weather-controlling Pokémon (Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza - but not necessarily all 3) on the same team. Is that necessarily a bad idea?
 
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Is there any format on here or Showdown similar to the 2006 Journey Across America format (basically ADV Ubers doubles)?

Also, does anyone have an ADV Ubers team building guide? In particular, I'm wondering about the viability of mixing weather-controlling Pokémon (Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza - but not necessarily all 3) on the same team. Is that necessarily a bad idea?
afaik there's no teambuilding guide, but I can tell you that mixing weather setters is viable in ADV ubers. Teams don't have to commit to one weather or the other and Groudon and Kyogre are two of the best pokemon in the game so it's not even that uncommon for them to be used independent of their weather. Also, having multiple weathers can even be convenient for limiting teams that do depend on rain/sun. Lastly Rayquaza is fine regardless since it doesn't alter the weather, it just causes its effects to be ignored, though I guess if you're asking for doubles that's a different story
 
afaik there's no teambuilding guide, but I can tell you that mixing weather setters is viable in ADV ubers. Teams don't have to commit to one weather or the other and Groudon and Kyogre are two of the best pokemon in the game so it's not even that uncommon for them to be used independent of their weather. Also, having multiple weathers can even be convenient for limiting teams that do depend on rain/sun. Lastly Rayquaza is fine regardless since it doesn't alter the weather, it just causes its effects to be ignored, though I guess if you're asking for doubles that's a different story
Thanks for your reply. I suppose I was asking for both singles and doubles. As for doubles, it seems like it would be a bit counterproductive to have Groudon on a team if you're running Kyogre + Ludicolo/Kingdra (or to have Kyogre if you have Groudon + Exeggutor/Shiftry), but what about Rayquaza with one of those pairings? Rayquaza still brings something to the team with its Extremespeed and other powerful attacks.
 
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Merritt

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Why is it called ADV and not RSE?
AM said:
the system that those games were on was called the GameBoy Advance hence the "ADV"
Oglemi said:
To expand, by the time Smogon collected and formed a community and gained popularity, all of Gen 3's games were out save for XD (RSEFRLG and Colosseum, with FRLG being released in early 2004 and the Smogon forums being founded in Dec 2004, and then XD being released in Aug 2005). Because unlike the previous two gens where only 3 games existed, RBY and GSC, discounting the Stadiums since the RBY we play ignores Stadium mechanics, everyone just shorthanded Gen 3 to ADV, which referred to all of the games, rather than RSEFRLGCXD or whatever.
This is a good explanation from page 24 of the thread.
 

Earthworm

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I am speculating here, but I think it may be moreso that people referred to it as ADV because NetBattle, the popular simulator of the time, originally had two different possible Gen 3 modes in the team builder, one of which was called Ru/Sa only (used to play the RS200 format I believe), and the other of which was called "Full Advance" for whatever reason (probably due to the GBA being called Advance as someone else said). So "Advance" may have helped to differentiate this mode from the RS mode. I am guessing the name stuck from there. IMO, that explanation makes more sense than people suddenly deciding to call the whole generation "ADV" after a ton of games had been released, not all of which were even on the GBA. edit: It may have been the case that the popular way to refer to the collective set of gen 3 games was already "Advance" before NetBattle named it that, but I doubt it had much to do with the formation of Smogon.

I don't think it really makes sense to call it ADV (especially not in all caps, since it doesn't stand for anything). I know a lot of people are used to the name but I usually call it RSE myself anyway because it makes more sense. It's not like people won't know what you're talking about if you call it RSE.
 
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I am speculating here, but I think it may be moreso that people referred to it as ADV because NetBattle, the popular simulator of the time, originally had two different possible Gen 3 modes in the team builder, one of which was called Ru/Sa only (used to play the RS200 format I believe), and the other of which was called "Full Advance" for whatever reason (probably due to the GBA being called Advance as someone else said). So "Advance" may have helped to differentiate this mode from the RS mode. I am guessing the name stuck from there. IMO, that explanation makes more sense than people suddenly deciding to call the whole generation "ADV" after a ton of games had been released, not all of which were even on the GBA. edit: It may have been the case that the popular way to refer to the collective set of gen 3 games was already "Advance" before NetBattle named it that, but I doubt it had much to do with the formation of Smogon.

I don't think it really makes sense to call it ADV (especially not in all caps, since it doesn't stand for anything). I know a lot of people are used to the name but I usually call it RSE myself anyway because it makes more sense. It's not like people won't know what you're talking about if you call it RSE.
Even tho not all the Gen 3 games were released on GBA, I think it still makes sense that the gen became known as ADV. In the first two gens, Stadium and Stadium 2 weren't included as part of the abbreviations (as Oglemi already pointed out on pg. 24). However, in terms of solely handheld games, there were only 1 "set" of games in each of the first 2 generations (RBY and GSC). In Gen 3 tho, you had 2 sets of games for the first time (RSE and FRLG). It likely seemed absurd to refer to gen 3 as RSEFRLG or something like that so ADV became the title - and yeah it definitely could have come from NetBattle, but I think the name was necessitated from the addition of a new set of games (the remakes).

Of course, that doesn't really explain why this pattern didn't follow for subsequent generations (where we still have more than 1 set of games per generation). Perhaps because it was so long ago (and the first time they encountered the problem), they didn't know what else to do to name it, but later realized that they can still stick with the main game name for an abbreviation?
 
While we're on the subject of ADV, I know this doesn't pertain to an exact Smogon metagame, but what are some ideas as to how things would be different in 3 vs 3, a.k.a. Stadium (or Colosseum) mode for that generation? I assume that Pokémon like Skarmory are much less effective, as the whole Spikes + shuffle strategy is less useful than it is in 6 vs 6. Is it generally a good idea to just bring 6 sweepers? Are there any Pokémon that would be particularly useful in this format? In particular, I'm trying to decide between DD Tyranitar and DD Salamence (I don't think it would be a good idea to have 2 Dragon Dancers, but I could be wrong).

EDIT: OU, not Ubers.
 
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Hi, I know that this intervention has nothing strategic (and maybe I'm not on the right forum) but I try. To reproduce maximally the "retro" effect on formats of the old generations ([Gen 1] OU, [Gen 4] UU or [Gen 5] Uber), we use the sprites and the backgrounds of the time (until then, nothing surprising). Is it possible to also have the cries of the time (before the remastering in gen 6)? Kind these sounds recognizable (Pikachu, Kyogre, Deoxys or Reshiram). It seems to me that the screams were replaced only during 2016 (so I guess they are perfectly recoverable). It is obviously a bit cosmetic but if we can further optimize the old formats, Showdown can only be better
 

Mr.E

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Even "officially" the Gen 3 games are referred to as the Advance generation (like the anime). I think it's dumb and inconsistent we the community don't call it RSE though.

Then there's that whole ORAS thing...
 

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