B&W Research Thread

[TM13IceBeam]

could you possibly upload the video onto GBU or something so that we can all watch it?

EDIT: On the topic of the fainting glitch though, it seems like its random and hidden on every cartridge of B/W: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3707668&postcount=590

 

[Antar]

could you possibly upload the video onto GBU or something so that we can all watch it?

My opponent made his pokemon using Pokegen, and they don't pass WFC hack checks, so no go on uploading it. But I've made it into a narrated Youtube video that's gonna be uploaded a week from yesterday. In the meantime, check out these two screenshots.

[edit: I *can* upload the test battle I had pitting Jirachi vs. Slowking. Jirachi is neutral SpA with 4 EVs invested, while Slowking is +SpD with 252 HP, 252 SpD. The video number is 26-39851-41813]

Not sure if this is the game or the emulator [edit: yes I do, it's the game], but when an attack does damage, part of the HP bar turns black to show how much damage is being done. Very convenient for measuring these things.

Doom Desire 1: Jirachi was at +1 when the attack launched, +2 when it hit

Doom Desire 2: Jirachi was at +2 when the attack launched, off the field when it hit

 

[Kaphotics]

Not sure if PO has this or not, but Sleep lasts 1-3 turns.

Both self inflicted sleep (Effect Spore), and opponent inflicted sleep (spore etc) are the same (1-3).

This comes from my research on the Battle RNG. If you want to test other things with the Battle RNG on an emulator, send me a PM/VM and I'll give you the memory locations and a quick runthrough as how it works.

 

[Joel]

Can anybody confirm or deny whether or not Pokes with Gift Ribbons of any kind can be traded on the GTS?

I put a Dusclops on the GTS from my Platinum cart (for transfer to Gen 5 via PokeCheck), and it worked. Transfering between Gen 4 and 5 with PokeCheck doesn't add extra ribbons.

When I tried to put the Dusclops on the GTS on my White cart, it told me I couldn't because it has a special ribbon.

The special Gift Ribbons it has are the National Ribbon and Earth Ribbon. Both are obtained on Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness.

It seems that any "Gift Ribbon", not just the Classic Ribbon and Wishing Ribbon (the two event ribbons) disallows trading on the GTS in Gen 5.

 

[poccil]

Kaphotics:

Are you sure that sleep caused by Rest can last less than three turns in the normal case, that is, the time between the use of Rest and the wake-up can be less than three turns in the normal case? It doesn't seem to be the case in my tests.

(Edited.)

 

[CPU]

Pokémon with Early Bird make Rest last less than three turns for them. I think Shed Skin can do the same.

 

[poccil]

CPU:

I was aware of Early Bird and Shed Skin, and even Chesto Berry and the like, what I meant was "in the normal case".

 

[MB Espeon]

Can anybody confirm or deny whether or not Pokes with Gift Ribbons of any kind can be traded on the GTS?

I put a Dusclops on the GTS from my Platinum cart (for transfer to Gen 5 via PokeCheck), and it worked. Transfering between Gen 4 and 5 with PokeCheck doesn't add extra ribbons.

When I tried to put the Dusclops on the GTS on my White cart, it told me I couldn't because it has a special ribbon.

The special Gift Ribbons it has are the National Ribbon and Earth Ribbon. Both are obtained on Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness.

It seems that any "Gift Ribbon", not just the Classic Ribbon and Wishing Ribbon (the two event ribbons) disallows trading on the GTS in Gen 5.

It's disallowed me from trading Gale of Darkness stuff on the GTS in Black for a while now so... yeah. Well, the ex-shadow pokémon at least.

 

[Kaphotics]

Kaphotics:

Are you sure that sleep caused by Rest can last less than three turns in the normal case, that is, the time between the use of Rest and the wake-up can be less than three turns in the normal case? It doesn't seem to be the case in my tests.

(Edited.)

Doh, me misreading it, removed the inaccuracy in my post. Should have said "Effect Spore".

"Rest lasts two turns and the Pokémon awakes at the third turn like it always used to be."

I guess we can confirm Mien's post about Hypnosis/Sleep Infliction duration.

1/3 chance to last 1 turn.
1/3 chance to last 2 turns
1/3 chance to last 3 turns.

 

[Kaphotics]

Still doin' research on the Battle RNG in the RNG Research Thread, and I've proven that there is no such thing as a damage bias for when the game calculates how much damage to deal.

It's an even distribution of 85% thru 100%.

(SEED>>32)*16)>>32, return a value (0-15).
0  - 100%
1  -  99%
...
14 -  86%
15 -  85%

If you would like to see for yourself, I am still offering to give anyone the memory locations of the Battle RNG and how to arrive at the number for the damaging move in question. There's further information about the damage calc (and in previous generations) in the post I linked to.

 

[Peterko]

in this post, you say

Paralysis
((SEED>>32)*100>>32) = Paralysis Check
If 0-49, Pokemon is Paralyzed for the Turn.
If 50-99, Pokemon can move for the Turn.

which is the same as infatiuation and confusion.

Nobody else saw this? Are you sure about that? What we call "fully paralyzed" is a 50% chance not 25%?

If it´s true then wow, just wow.

By the way, is it possible to find the order of modifiers in the formula? For example I´ve noticed that the "it´s a critical hit" message comes after the "it´s super effective" message in BW, it was the other way around in DPPtHGSS.

thanks for the research

 

[Kaphotics]

By the way, is it possible to find the order of modifiers in the formula? For example I´ve noticed that the "it´s a critical hit" message comes after the "it´s super effective" message in BW, it was the other way around in DPPtHGSS.

thanks for the research

fixt, when I research these chances I go for low/high values and I get the thresholds mixed up sometimes and copypaste stuff over others. It's 0-24. I make stupid mistakes like that, everything should be correct now... I think. I just don't like to test every value possible :S

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3694556&postcount=768

for a great majority of the moves without secondary effects/bonuses:
Hit
Crit
Damage

This has the order of what I saw, and here's an example in a later post:

 

[Peterko]

OK it´s better to fix now than creating a myth and having to bust it at every other occasion

also
Critical: ((SEED>>32)*s) >>32, if 0 crit).
Stage - *#
1 - *16
2 - *8
3 - *4
4 - *3
5 - *2

I don´t understand the numbers/formula, but

1 corresponds to 1/16
2 corresponds to 1/8
3 corresponds to 1/4
4 corresponds to 1/3
5 corresponds to 1/2 ?

....so the CH ratios are 6,25% -> 12,5% -> 25% -> 33,3% -> 50%?

EDIT: oh does it mean that
- QC is 3/16 = 18,75%
- focus band is 10% and
- thawing 20%?

would you please test lax incense and brightpowder?

awesome research man!

 

[Kaphotics]

Critical hit chances haven't changed, so they are still the same chance as many sites have posted. Nintendo doesn't change their game mechanics much, the hit/crit/damage calcs are the same across gens 5-3 (probably 2 as well). The game just arrives at them differently this gen by using a * instead of a %.

Also, thanks for pointing out that error in that Paralyze post!


Fixed QC's calc
Yes, QC is 20% (0-19 of 99), and since Focus Band is 10%, that's how it is calculated.

Nintendo has something activate/work if it's a low number, instead of high.

==

If I had to guess as to how Brightpowder/Lax Incense works, it should only modify the Hit calc by changing the effective accuracy of the move. It should be like this instead of consuming an extra frame on top of the hit calc to see if the item activates or not (because that's pretty redundant) The formula is on Bulbapedia.

Brightpowder would still make a 100% move hit 90% of the time. For increased evasion, it wouldn't be -10%, instead being -10% of whatever % remained. That's what I'd bet on. I'll probably test it tomorrow, it's late!

==

Yeah thawing is still 20%. So many places have this wrong, the onsite article about status is right.

 

[breh]

Ok, I'm confused about rest. Assume you switch after using rest. Are the sleep turns reset?

 

[Jaetheho]

yup. u have to wait two more turns.

 

[Antar]

Here's the promised Youtube video showing the Doom Desire mechanics I was reporting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxRNMndqcM

 

[Kaphotics]

It probably happened because the Battle Stat of Jirachi was reset back to +0 when it faints.

To keep the +2 it would probably have to still be alive, and the game probably keeps the increased battle stats until it is switched in for that reason.

I'd look at the Battle Video, but it's really not necessary as we've come to a similar conclusion.

Doom Desire sucks indeed.

 

[CPU]

I have no idea why they changed the mechanics of Futue Sight and Doom Desire.

They were fine before.

 

[mien]

Yeah thawing is still 20%. So many places have this wrong, the onsite article about status is right.

For the record, there already is a BW version of the status article where it's also listed as 20%. I've done extensive testing to check whether the thaw rate remained the same this generation as such it is nice to hear that your research confirms my results.

Would it be possible Kaphotics to find the correct flinch rate of King's Rock/Razor Fang using this method? Smogon claims it is 10% while other sources claim it is 11,7%, a rather small difference but it's been bugging me for quite a while.

 

[Antar]

It probably happened because the Battle Stat of Jirachi was reset back to +0 when it faints.

To keep the +2 it would probably have to still be alive, and the game probably keeps the increased battle stats until it is switched in for that reason.

It makes sense from a programming standpoint but not from a gaming standpoint.

Doom Desire sucks indeed.

Well, if you can guarantee that you're going to stay alive, attacking first, THEN setting up for the attack might be... interesting? Idk. It seems like Flash Cannon is ALWAYS gonna give more bang for your buck.

I have no idea why they changed the mechanics of Futue Sight and Doom Desire.

They were fine before.

Well, if you don't try to SET UP and use the attack and just USE it unboosted, it's better than it was before--DD gets STAB now and is base-140. I remember some calcs from a long time ago that showed that, on the MAJORITY of pokemon, the attack nets greater damage than it would have in previous generations. Also, accuracy is now 100%.

 

[poccil]

mien:

The "11.7%" chance for King's Rock applied only to generation 2 (in reality, a 30/256 chance). In generations 3 through 5, the chance to cause flinching is 10%.

 

[Shadowfist]

Question:

Can a Pokemon with Mold Breaker set up hazards successfully against a Pokemon with Magic Bounce? Apparently they get reflected back, but it needs an in-game test.

(I can provide Pokemon to test this with.)

 

[poccil]

Shadowfist:

Yes it can, I've tested that in-game. If a Pokemon with Mold Breaker uses Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes, it will succeed against the opposing Pokemon's side even if one of the opposing Pokemon has Magic Bounce, as it does with other attacks that target a "single non-user" or "all opposing Pokemon."

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere:

If Knock Off kills an opponent, the item will still be removed right after the opponent faints.

I guess this is for Wonder Launcher & Revive purposes. Unless this was also the case in Gen. 4, in which case, please ignore the above.


Now, I have a question:

In a Triple Battle, if a Pokémon is afflicted with Leech Seed and then uses Move or Ally Switch to move out of range, who gets healed, if anyone? Thanks in advance.