Ladder Balanced Hackmons

Squawkerz

Torchic is best mon
I know this has been stated before, but I think that Dark Void needs to be banned from BH Doubles. It is way too centralizing to the meta, (maybe) even more than Imposter in BH singles. It can stop sweeps easily, and even Pokemon like Cherrim can be annoying with the move. When playing this meta, I am on a 17-8 run, and all 8 of those losses involved dark void. I battled GoS on the ladder, and he ran chesto berry and imprison on some of his Pokemon just to beat dark void. I have a dedicated dark void counter in Magic Bounce Registeel on my team, and even a pokemon designed to counter Dark Void is still negatively affected by Dark Void, by the fact that the pokemon next to it will be put to sleep. The only thing that my team could do against Dark Void was pray for misses.

Ban Dark Void, as it is very annoying, centralizing, and takes little skill to use effectively.

:)
 
I know this has been stated before, but I think that Dark Void needs to be banned from BH Doubles. It is way too centralizing to the meta, (maybe) even more than Imposter in BH singles. It can stop sweeps easily, and even Pokemon like Cherrim can be annoying with the move. When playing this meta, I am on a 17-8 run, and all 8 of those losses involved dark void. I battled GoS on the ladder, and he ran chesto berry and imprison on some of his Pokemon just to beat dark void. I have a dedicated dark void counter in Magic Bounce Registeel on my team, and even a pokemon designed to counter Dark Void is still negatively affected by Dark Void, by the fact that the pokemon next to it will be put to sleep. The only thing that my team could do against Dark Void was pray for misses.

Ban Dark Void, as it is very annoying, centralizing, and takes little skill to use effectively.

:)
God bless you. Please ban Dark Void, I've resulting to running 3 Lum Berries and Prankster Safeguard and that leaves me open to other things (like what I mentioned before >_>)
 
Finally a metagame where Bad Dreams is viable.
I like it most on Chansey.

Other than that the expected stuff rules. Prankster, Fur Coat, Poison Heal, Sturdinja and -ate.


Edit 1:
I found a combo countering the Dark Void + Fake Out combo.
Use 2 Prankster with Quick Guard and Safe Guard each.

Edit 2:
Failed logic
 
Last edited:
Made a really fun team that's gotten me from 1000 to 1500+. It's pretty gimmicky, but it's good once you get the hang of it.

Team:

no u (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Metal Burst
- King's Shield
- Wish


fun guy (Foongus) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metal Burst
- Destiny Bond
- Roar
- Defog/Magma Storm/Will-o-Wisp/Spiky Shield


sword (Aegislash) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Gastro Acid
- Toxic
- Recover
- King's Shield


ded (Shedinja) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Toxic


shrooms (Foongus) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metal Burst
- Destiny Bond
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp


u no (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Metal Burst
- Wish
- King's Shield
- Magma Storm


Description:
Foongus is your lead. If they lead with a sweeper, use Metal Burst and it'll usually kill them. Metal Burst is an OHKO to MMX/Y, M-Diancie, M-Rayquaza, etc. After that, use DBond and kill what's their next sweeper, if it is a sweeper. If not, switch into something else. Roar is for Sub sweepers / Set-up sweepers. Since it has negative priority and DBond has positive, just fire off a DBond and then Roar afterwards to be safe. The last move is filler. Defog is for removing SR and spikes, Magma Storm/Will-o-Wisp is for Sturdinja or the occasional Imposter Chansey, and Spiky Shield can also deal with Sturdinja, but allows for protecting from Fake Out as well. Fake Out into E-Speed can be a problem, as it out prioritizes your DBond, but if you protect from the Fake Out, Metal Burst will finish them off.

Aegislash is a safe switch-in because of Magic Bounce and its bulk. If they don't lead with a sweeper, switch into him, as Stealth Rocks and Spikes are this team's weakness. Gastro Acid is to break PH sweepers like Regigigas, Toxic is for bulkier Pokes, Recover is for healing, and King's Shield is good at weakening physical sweepers.

Imposter Chansey is pretty common, and it's good to have against set-up sweepers. Not much to say about it, just look it up if you really need to.

Fur Coat Chansey is just another Metal Burst spammer, not much special about it either. Another safe switch-in, especially against M-Gengar.

Shedinja is a normal Sturdy Shedinja with Shadow Claw for M-Gengar, Giratina, or Imposter Chansey. Last move is filler.
 
Made a really fun team that's gotten me from 1000 to 1500+. It's pretty gimmicky, but it's good once you get the hang of it.

Team:

no u (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Metal Burst
- King's Shield
- Wish


fun guy (Foongus) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metal Burst
- Destiny Bond
- Roar
- Defog/Magma Storm/Will-o-Wisp/Spiky Shield


sword (Aegislash) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Gastro Acid
- Toxic
- Recover
- King's Shield


ded (Shedinja) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Toxic


shrooms (Foongus) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metal Burst
- Destiny Bond
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp


u no (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Metal Burst
- Wish
- King's Shield
- Magma Storm

Description:
Foongus is your lead. If they lead with a sweeper, use Metal Burst and it'll usually kill them. Metal Burst is an OHKO to MMX/Y, M-Diancie, M-Rayquaza, etc. After that, use DBond and kill what's their next sweeper, if it is a sweeper. If not, switch into something else. Roar is for Sub sweepers / Set-up sweepers. Since it has negative priority and DBond has positive, just fire off a DBond and then Roar afterwards to be safe. The last move is filler. Defog is for removing SR and spikes, Magma Storm/Will-o-Wisp is for Sturdinja or the occasional Imposter Chansey, and Spiky Shield can also deal with Sturdinja, but allows for protecting from Fake Out as well. Fake Out into E-Speed can be a problem, as it out prioritizes your DBond, but if you protect from the Fake Out, Metal Burst will finish them off.

Aegislash is a safe switch-in because of Magic Bounce and its bulk. If they don't lead with a sweeper, switch into him, as Stealth Rocks and Spikes are this team's weakness. Gastro Acid is to break PH sweepers like Regigigas, Toxic is for bulkier Pokes, Recover is for healing, and King's Shield is good at weakening physical sweepers.

Imposter Chansey is pretty common, and it's good to have against set-up sweepers. Not much to say about it, just look it up if you really need to.

Fur Coat Chansey is just another Metal Burst spammer, not much special about it either. Another safe switch-in, especially against M-Gengar.

Shedinja is a normal Sturdy Shedinja with Shadow Claw for M-Gengar, Giratina, or Imposter Chansey. Last move is filler.
Hi! First off, smogon uses [ hide], not
. Might want to fix that.

Secondly; is there any reason to use Foongus over MVenu or Ferrothorn? They seem much more reliable and less likely to cripple themselves, while maintaining (why I'm supposing you picked them) an immunity to poison, leech seed, and spore.

If you are going to run status on Shed (which I wouldn't suggest, as it lets imposters hurt you), wouldn't it be better to run something like poisonpowder that you are immune to?

On Chansey, I'd like to suggest running Whirlwind+Softboiled over Wishtect. The only mon you can wishpass too is aegislash, and it barely cares. Meanwhile, Softboiled doesn't give as many setup turns and whirlwind lets you force pokemon out. Magma Storm is probably also inferior to infestation (perfect accuracy, and you already aren't doing damage) or parting shot/baton pass (better utility).

On Aegislash, may I suggest something like Topsy turvy, parting shot, defog, curse or spore (run safety goggles if you choose this) over toxic and kings sheild? they don't do much for you.


That's mostly all you can do without vastly changing how the team works. This team probably won't ever be excellent in BH, but if your willing to accept that there isn't anything stopping you from having fun. If you want to make a serious team to reach a still higher ladder spot, however, I would suggest checking out the sample teams thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-sample-teams.3539715/ for a better idea of how to build for BH.
 
Hi! First off, smogon uses [ hide], not
. Might want to fix that.

Secondly; is there any reason to use Foongus over MVenu or Ferrothorn? They seem much more reliable and less likely to cripple themselves, while maintaining (why I'm supposing you picked them) an immunity to poison, leech seed, and spore.

If you are going to run status on Shed (which I wouldn't suggest, as it lets imposters hurt you), wouldn't it be better to run something like poisonpowder that you are immune to?

On Chansey, I'd like to suggest running Whirlwind+Softboiled over Wishtect. The only mon you can wishpass too is aegislash, and it barely cares. Meanwhile, Softboiled doesn't give as many setup turns and whirlwind lets you force pokemon out. Magma Storm is probably also inferior to infestation (perfect accuracy, and you already aren't doing damage) or parting shot/baton pass (better utility).

On Aegislash, may I suggest something like Topsy turvy, parting shot, defog, curse or spore (run safety goggles if you choose this) over toxic and kings sheild? they don't do much for you.


That's mostly all you can do without vastly changing how the team works. This team probably won't ever be excellent in BH, but if your willing to accept that there isn't anything stopping you from having fun. If you want to make a serious team to reach a still higher ladder spot, however, I would suggest checking out the sample teams thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-sample-teams.3539715/ for a better idea of how to build for BH.
Thanks for the tips. The team was made as a gimmick team I wanted to try out, and it ended up working pretty well for me. It's not supposed to be serious, but maybe I'll try and make one.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
If you're planning to use a gimmick then imho you should be using it on a mon that's already viable. If I see Foongus then I'm not just gonna attack into it, I'm gonna assume it's doing something shady and try and hit it with Wisp/scout it with Imposter/switch in a wall which can escape trapping. If that Foongus was a Mega Venu (assuming you want that typing for whatever reason), then I'm gonna assume it's something resembling Annasayshi's FF Venu and play accordingly (eg try and get in my specs Ray safely to fire off a Boomburst). This isn't the best example because I'm sleepy but tl;dr if you're using a gimmick, do it on an already viable mon to lure stuff.
 

Squawkerz

Torchic is best mon
After winning yesterday's BH Doubles tournament, there is one thing I want to mention is to never underestimate any gimmicky/bad pokemon. I mean, I won using Cherrim and my opponent in the finals had a Dusclops. What I would like to talk about though is the insane pair of Cherrim and Primal Groudon.

Cherrim @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flower Gift
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Wide Guard
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Precipice Blades
- Thousand Arrows
- U-turn

Now you may be wondering why Cherrim and not any other pokemon like Deoxys-Speed. The reason is the ability Flower Gift which is hard coded to Cherrim. In case you didn't know, Flower Gift increases Cherrim and all ally Pokemon's Attack and Special Defense by 1.5X. If Groudon gains a special attack boost from download, it's attack will still end up a monstrous 756, and if gets the attack boost from download, It's attack will become an insane 1134. No physical attacker should be able to do this (+2 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 456-537 (64.7 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) without needing to go to +6. Cherrim also provides a stop to priority and spread moves, Dark Void, and a way for Groudon to be sped up. Oh and if you think this isn't enough to win battles, in the tournament, the first match I went 5-0 with only Cherrim dying, but Primal Groudon pretty much OHKOing every Pokemon on my opponent's team. I my second game, I would have 6-0ed my opponent, but he forfeited with one mon left. The third match, although I lucked out on a dark void miss, I still 4-0ed my opponent. The finals match was the only match that Groudon and Cherrim particularly failed, as my opponent bounced my dark void back at me, but I still managed to defeat them in a 2-0 victory.

Never underestimate anything.

Finals Replay
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/bhdoubles-430666447

Full Team
Cherrim @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flower Gift
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Wide Guard
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Precipice Blades
- Thousand Arrows
- U-turn

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- U-turn
- Wide Guard

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Precipice Blades

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Shell Smash

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wide Guard
- Quick Guard
- Stealth Rock
- Parting Shot


:)

 
Please ban Dark Void, it's ridiculously broken. With Prankster, I can easily put both the opponent's mons out of commission. It's gotten to the point where I either have to have several Magic Bounce mons, or give most of my team Sleep Talk.
you can use a poke with magic bounce, Magic guard + toxic orb and heal poison to prevent dark void, and if spore has more options like safety goggles or grass type. I believe that the clause is sleep better if there spore / dark void spam and not ban a move.
 

ih8ih8sn0w

Koreaboo
is a Researcher Alumnus
you can use a poke with magic bounce, Magic guard + toxic orb and heal poison to prevent dark void, and if spore has more options like safety goggles or grass type. I believe that the clause is sleep better if there spore / dark void spam and not ban a move.
None of those offer a permanent solution. PH is mainly reserved for tanks and walls (although other things can be seen running this), so it isn't spamable unless you like your team to be stally; magic bounce is worthless after the poke dies, so all they have to do is kill whatever is running mb; and using safeguard/crafty shield/whatever else kids are clicking only offer a temporary solution. Spore is a lot easier to deal with than a move that can incapacitate your entire team in 3 turns. Sleep clause is something that can be an alternative, but it ruins the entire point of dv, and makes it a 50/50 (may be wrong on the mechanics behind this) of you hitting the poke you actually want to put to sleep.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
What about... Magic Coat? It turns Dark Void against the user. They put one of your Pokemon to sleep (zero if you use Protect) whilst you put both of their to sleep.

This is literally the OM with the most creative freedom. Stop jumping to ban something because you're not used to it. Adapt to it. If you are still losing to Dark Void spam after being prepared for it, then that's a problem and you should post replays of that happening.
 
This replays show Magic Coat in action. 6-0 vs Nr.1 at that time.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/bhdoubles-430671294
Baited into using Dark Void with Sleep weak starter duo, over after turn 1.

I found the tendency that you can not block both Status and Spread moves at the same time.
Strategies which work very well against Sleep fail hard against heavy Offensive.

I have to say trapping workes better than in singles, i lost to a guy with 3 Lugias, Thousand Waves + Persish Song
Another guy had a great 3 Giratina set up team.
( +3 SpA/SpD/Spe +4 Def Giratina failed to 1HKO 0 HP neutral nature Chansey with Stored Power)

This metagame is alot more rewarding for using pokes multiple times.
I have managed to build 2 decent teams so far, one 3x2 and the other 2x2+1+1
 
Please at least suspect Dark Void. As an example of how ridiculously busted it is, I built a team with Prooo (who is at the time of writing #5), and to account for DV spam it has 3 mons with a lum berry, a safeguard user, and a PH user. To the people saying that it's easy to counter, below are some reasons why the most common ways of "countering" it aren't as great as they might seem.
Magic Bounce: Mold breaker is a thing, and given that you can only have 2 of each ability this isn't really a great check, especially given that you knock them out with one of the many powerful attacks floating around the tier.
Poison Heal: One of the better checks to Dark Void, however Poison Heal users are far easier to overwhelm in doubles than singles, meaning that in one turn your only check is dead. However, this is probably the best check to Dark Void that I can think of.
Lum Berry spam/Cheston Berry spam: Single use only, after one turn dark void can put both of you to sleep anyway.
Safeguard: Takes a turn to set up, and only lasts for a few turns. It's also not a move that you want to run on 3 mons just so that you don't get overwhelmed.
Insomnia: Mold Breaker, and it's also a garbage ability to have to slap on a mon to beat dark void
Priority Spam: Beaten by a bulky dark void user as most priority is fairly weak; and really not going to work as the best and most usable priority is -ate (which you can only have one of)
Not Perfect Accuracy/Evasion Spam: Right....
Magic Coat: Requires good prediction, but another reasonable check (although not a move you really want to be running on every third mon). However, this is prb the best check available atm. Besides, if there is one good check in the metagame, doesn't that count as just a tad overcentralizing?

TL;DR Dark void is busted af, overcentralizing and should probably at least be suspected before the end of the month
 
I also forgot to mention electric terrain as a dark void check but given that there's less than 3 usable abusers (Zekrom and Thundy being the only 2 coming to my mind) I daresay it's not the best playstyle and probably classifies as a gimmick. I'm currently building with it, I'll upload a replay when I finish that
 

InfamousChub

formerly Pikachuboy01
Eruption + Sun/QuickGuard support can decimate teams. Mostly through abusers like chlorophyll CharY. The set also works with Rain, SwiftSwim Kyo Waterspouted a lot of things.
 
Not the best example, but sleep did have a large impact on the outcome of this (turn 26+ ended up being dv spam+knock off for chip damage to the point where my registeel won in a 2v1): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/bhdoubles-431325442
I enjoyed that replay. I can t remember a replay in Doubles lasting 50+ turns.

For me its proof the meta is perfectly fine, its doubles which means the strong stuff will be twice as impactful.


Wide guard is too common for that to sweep whole teams. After the first kill they'll just go straight to their wide guard user and you can't do anything about it if you're choiced.
All those xxx-guard moves are really good in this meta. On the other side if you lack the right one the match will be hard.

My 2 Aero 2 MMY, 2 M-tar team with (3 Lum berries) is really weak vs scarf Boomburst,but thats not a big deal because of Wide-Guard teams.


I would say this is one of the best doubles metagame in quite some time.
The last one i remember is VGC Gen5 with/out Therain Formes.
Multiple playstyles are available and balancing itself out. (No bullshit CHALK, fuck Koreans)
 

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