Thundurus, mega pinsir, trace mega gardevoir, talonflame, crobat, sturdy, red card, and prankster are all viable and easy to fit into a team... Some of the other moves maybe less viable, but those all are perfectly valid things to use that can easily support your team against other teams as well.
Gardevoir can't break BP by itself due to Mr. Mime and Sylveon, Talonflame is neutered after an Acid Armor or Iron Defense, Sturdy is irrelevant since it cannot stop Stored Power Espeon at all, and Red Card doesn't activate if the Pokemon holding it dies, which will happen if hit by a hard Stored Power. Crobat is subpar at best in the metagame, and there are almost no viable Prankster users outside of the aforementioned Thundurus that are not completely dead weight against other teams, so this is irrelevant as well. There reall'y arent many answers to Baton Pass that aren't obscure choices that put one at a major disadvantage against other teams.
So wait you're admitting BP counters hold a team back and your justification for keeping them is "if a team ISN'T running a BP counter, the the player sucks, therefore you should be able to beat that shitty, stupid player even at a disadvantage"? So all "good" players are supposed to pledge to run BP counters so the game is "fair" instead of exploiting the weak BP counters people are using?? Am I getting this right?
Latios (depending on EVs), many decent physical attackers not of the Fairy type that hate getting burned and then Foul Played, Blissey if she's not packing Toxic (if you're not packing Rest), slow support pokemon like Chansey that obviously hate getting Trick Scarfed, then statused (Scarf Tomb gets 159 Spd, faster than base 60s with no investment), Tomb could also run a Trick CM set with Dark Pulse that could give stuff like Alakazam problems as long as it has some SDef investment, Gengar with Dark move with SDef investment or Sucker Punch, Slow CMers (lol Musharna).
^Stop needlessly swearing so much please.
No I'm saying that if you guys think that even the viable counters hold a team back then everyone who ran them would be on even ground. I personally don't see how a lot of these counters aren't viable.
But guy, at a point 1800+ so many people uses BP, that comment have really nonsense, we are trying doing something against that 90% autowins, maybe is not majority but baton pass full teams still are broken, only 1 counter, and that counter is useless against 80% of the teams
just bringing back up mold breaker taunt again to check opinions.
Non mega gardevoir carries trace, copy speed boost and outspeed.
And what's about sylveon hyper voice/CM? that don't exist? stored power is not the only 1 attacking move
Tbh, Shedinja is probably the best hard counter which is both 100% reliable at beating standard BP and that isn't also complete junk against the rest of the meta. Yes, it's still mediocre against other playstyles, but it's not unusable rubbish unlike Haze Murkrow and most of the other bad suggestions. That by no means is to say BP shouldn't be nerfed, but the fact is that reliable hard counters do exist, contrary to what some are saying. It still has Will-O-Wisp to cripple things like Bisharp who try to switch in on it, and it can hard wall things like Thundurus-I, Keldeo, and a bunch of other things provided they don't have a SE coverage move, and it can be a great pivot and momentum generator with Baton Pass. Needing hazards gone obviously restricts it a lot, but it's not the end of the world for it either. Keep in mind too that this is just looking at counters on a per pokemon basis, whereas there are also general tactics which can help overcome BP like constant offensive pressure from the likes of powerful hitters etc. Baton Pass is indeed being overrated slightly because people are acting as though it's completely invincible, but I've been watching a lot of games recently, including many of those from DenisSsS, and it's definitely beatable without having to resort to specific hard counters and there are many things which do give BP its own share of 'auto-losses' so to speak. The 'health of the metagame' is one very understandable thing, but being realistic in terms of how strong these teams are in relation to the other high-end teams is another, and we need to start being more realistic in our discussions about this.
Sorry about the swearing, it's just that this is just ridiculous, I'm seeing people bring up stuff that's already been posted million of times in this same thread (or even in the first like 5 pages for God's sake).
Why on earth would a) Mawile be attacking Espeon when it could simply BP to Vaporeon and b) why would Espeon have no HP or Defense investment on a BP team? This calc is entirely meaningless.
Look, this is cute and all, but are we really bringing up SHEDINJA as a counter of all things now? --'
Sylveon is not the BP leader you know that, and if sylveon should beat gyarados he can got a acid armor from vaporeon and easily kill gyarados, stop from posting anti-ban comments,Baton pass don't have enought counters , understand it , 40 pages thread with almost 10 pages with the same anti-ban coments of almost the same people, is just so ridiculous
Do you have any replays showing off Gardevoir's amazing ability to counter BP teams, or is this just mindless theorymon? In the case of the ladder, this example doesn't hold much ground...
How exactly does Vaporeon pass acid armor against a Taunting Gyarados? Lol
