BH BH7 Suspect #3: Trapping - Voter Identification & Discussion

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aki0s said:
I know bb. Just hi-jacking your post to use it as an example for others that are calling for magnet pull ban. :heart:
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This would be like saying "If his Mewtwo hadn't been Specs and instead Life Orb he would have won" or "If his Mewtwo had been Contrary instead" as some sort of justification to ban or not ban the opposing Shadow Tag. Just because things have poor match-ups, such as Magnet Pull vs a team with no Steels or CFZs without Mold Breaker(-esque moves) vs Sturdy Shedinja or Water Bubble vs Desolate Land, doesn't necessarily mean they're not broken. (Or are broken depending on context.) Even among broken and unhealthy stuff, very little, if anything, is literally useful in every possible match-up.

...plus, that kinda logic can be a bit dangerous since one could easily use it to pull some bullcrap like "Well, if his Groudon had been Wonder Guard it still would have been useless in that match, so Wonder Guard isn't broken."
 
Silver_Lucario42 said:
fam the way it works is that the steel spams dragon tail/circle throw (roar + soundproof works too).
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For the record roar doesn't work because there's no way the thing with Magnet Pull that you switch in can also have Soundproof unless for some reason they don't click and also they can just switch out turn 1.
Aside from nitpicking that particular strat is extremely annoying and relies almost entirely on RNG for what gets phazed into the first turn or two (and on team matchup - they have to have an imposter).

So this post actually has some content: I'm definitely pro ban on Gengarite for a lot of the same reasons as already highlighted and I'm leaning DNB on MagPull (but I've changed my mind multiple times about this so who knows). The main difference I see between the two is that Gengarite threatens normally at least 4/5 of your Pokemon all of the time and restricts choices a lot against anything with a pivoting move and you have no idea how they've built their Gengar to beat what so your whole team needs to be prepared and your whole team needs to be played with caution whereas with MagPull normally only 1 team member is even affected by it and you know before you even start the match which team member you need to be slightly cautious with or build with a different set. For me it seems it is fairly reasonable to have one member of your team that has a weakness that you can easily plan or prepare for as opposed to having almost your whole team potentially trapped and killed. (I'm ignoring the aids phazing strat for this argument but that is something I need to think more about.)
 
Yep, I managed to get reqs after you crazy good mofos decided not to try-hard ass-wipe me off to the next 6 dimensions.

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I am late to the party, and my vote probably isn't needed at this point, but I am voting BAN GENGARITE and BAN MAGNET PULL. At this point I don't need to explain, you guys fleshed it out pretty well :).
 
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I vote to NOT BAN Gengarite and Magnet Pull.
Magnet Pull prevents Steel types from escaping, but the most used Steel-types use U-Turn: Registeel, Solgaleo, and Dialga use U-Turn more than 50% of the time (counting 1760 stats for June)

As for Gengarite:
Gengar uses something like this:

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- King's Shield / Spiky Shield
- Encore / Disable
- Disable / Spore

Seeing Gengar in the team preview makes it easy to play around. If they have King's Shield, then one can easily just set up or use Spore. If they have Spiky Shield, then one can set up. Quiver Dance, Shift Gear, and Shell Smash are widely used and users can easily outpace Gengar with one boost. Additionally, Ghost-types are not affected by Shadow Tag. Shed Shell can also be used to escape.

In conclusion, Shadow Tag and Magnet Pull definitely have their advantages, but there are ways to outplay it. This goes with many of the abilities and moves that one can call "overpowered," like Contrary, Shell Smash, Imposter, etc. As long as there's a viable way to outplay them, they should not be banned.
 
Anaconja said:
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I vote to NOT BAN Gengarite and Magnet Pull.
Magnet Pull prevents Steel types from escaping, but the most used Steel-types use U-Turn: Registeel, Solgaleo, and Dialga use U-Turn more than 50% of the time (counting 1760 stats for June)

As for Gengarite:
Gengar uses something like this:

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- King's Shield / Spiky Shield
- Encore / Disable
- Disable / Spore

Seeing Gengar in the team preview makes it easy to play around. If they have King's Shield, then one can easily just set up or use Spore. If they have Spiky Shield, then one can set up. Quiver Dance, Shift Gear, and Shell Smash are widely used and users can easily outpace Gengar with one boost. Additionally, Ghost-types are not affected by Shadow Tag. Shed Shell can also be used to escape.

In conclusion, Shadow Tag and Magnet Pull definitely have their advantages, but there are ways to outplay it. This goes with many of the abilities and moves that one can call "overpowered," like Contrary, Shell Smash, Imposter, etc. As long as there's a viable way to outplay them, they should not be banned.
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for the record uturn is useless if you get ohko'd by pdon vcreate and every relevant steel type gets ohko'd by pdon vcreate, except for the flash fire users which get ohko'd the next time it comes in by tarrows. pivoting moves cant do anything if you're dead before your part of the turn.
 
Anaconja said:
Seeing Gengar in the team preview makes it easy to play around. If they have King's Shield, then one can easily just set up... If they have Spiky Shield, then one can set up. Quiver Dance, Shift Gear, and Shell Smash are widely used and users can easily outpace Gengar with one boost.
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is mgar supposed to trap sweepers now? excuse me?
 
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I'd rather just ban Gengarite, since Magnet Pull doesn't target all the Pokemon that Shadow Tag does, and as such it is less spammable; however, I'll respect your wishes and say
Ban Gengarite and Magnet Pull.

Shadow Tag destroys stall teams. I once lost my entire team to a Gengarite Gengar, which left me more than aggravated. Normally I would just fix members of my team so that I could fight the new threat, but Gengarite seems to laugh at me about that; Encore doesn't care about U-turn, Perish Song doesn't care about Magic Bounce, and fuck Soundproof, as protecting against Perish would be its main use (protects against boomburst too but that's usually not a problem in the first place for me). I'd much rather keep Unaware instead of lose a Pokemon so I could try to use ONE Pokemon for the sole purpose of defeating ONE OTHER Pokemon. That's something we all avoid while we build our teams in the mainstream meta games, and I think we should do the same with Balanced Hackmons.

(there we go, found it)
Showdown! - Google Chrome 7_6_2017 10_07_15 PM_LI.jpg
 
BlazingMane01 said:
I'd rather just ban Gengarite, since Magnet Pull doesn't target all the Pokemon that Shadow Tag does, and as such it is less spammable; however, I'll respect your wishes and say
Ban Gengarite and Magnet Pull.
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If you don't think magpull should be banned then you don't need to vote ban dude. Idk what you mean by "respect your wishes", what about the ppl that vote no ban for magpull? I don't really understand your logic here.

Also just a reminder that this is not the voting thread, that'll go up after the suspect ends.
 
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Gengarite: BAN
In a Full EV Meta where Gengar can be invested in both defenses and use moves like Recovery+Protect move like Spiky/King's Shield that increase its durability in battle all we know that Gengarite Gengar is even more broken than it is in "regular" metas. And to this add the fact that in BH Gengar can use Encore and prankster parting shot was nerfed and, consequently, decreased a lot on usage, which causes the walls to be trapped easilly.
Shadow Tag is just broken and unfair at the moment.

Magnet pull: BAN
Triple U: Uncompetitive, Unhealthy to the meta and Unskilled usage.

Similar to Shadow Tag, Magnet Pull has the bonus that can it can bring a free kill to a Steel type mon or simply a free set up (if you're using the core set-up trapper+ Steel type imposter bait) increasing your winning chances to very high levels with no skill at all.
Some Steel-types run prankster+Destiny Bond. True. But that's no guaranteed counterplay. DBond has only 8pp! To deal with that that is just PP-stalling their DBond and the problem is solved. And what about Assault Vest users like Solgayleo, Dialga or Registeel? They're are easy bait to this. Pivoting moves cannot be nominated to be counterplay of this because VoltSwitch doesn´t hit Don (the number 1 Magnet Pull user) and they are so slow that before they can U-turn they're murdered easilly.


General: Thinking that a tour match (or whatever) can be decided by trapping is just...yuk :/
Transcendent God Champion knows what I mean. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7balancedhackmons-283300

And please don't talk about Shed Shell, because with many people considering Spore a problem (me included), cz spore is everywhere, almost everyone wants to carry Safety Googles on their walls rather than Shell because everyone finds Spore Sleep a far bigger problem when comparing to trapping when choosing the item on teambuilding.
 
BlazingMane01 said:
This isn't the voting thread? Where is it?
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Today is the last day to post requirements to qualify yourself for voting. Most likely tommorow, E4 Flint will make a mass tag to everyone who is qualified to vote, and the post will also have a link that will lead you to the thread where your vote is private and not seen by anyone until the voting is over.
 
I_Suck_At_Pokermon said:
Is it too late?
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Flint hasn't posted anything about not accepting any more so I guess you're fine.
One small thing, maybe you should add a screenshot of your name at the top of the screen just to confirm its you, I know you have the name next to the text box but that cuts off midway and better safe than sorry.
 
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