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Braviary

Arc Tech said:
Unless it's using bulk up, it's outclassed by Staraptor. Rock Slide doesn't hit anything important, and Encourage Crush Claw about the same as STAB return. True he does get lo-less attacks, but only a few and he's not dishing out nearly as much damage as raptor would with bb, unless he's taking advantage of not being choice locked and using bulk up.
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Good summary. Locking yourself in with a Choice item potentially makes Wargle less effective then Staraptor, because he has to try to hard to play Raptor's game. Wargle is best suited for putting his natural bulk to the best possible use, and Bulk Up allows him to do just that. I just wonder whether max speed or HP is preferable for effectiveness.
 
Cristhianmlr said:
Derp. No, Competitive heart only rises de Attack +1, no +2.

Kirikizan with this abilty nullifies Gyaras' Intimidate (that does -1 in Attack), so he can't get any reducition from Gyara.

The same for Wargle.

Anyway, I think that the self-effects of Trash and Superpower are ideal for use U-turn.

Another thing useful, at my point, is Free Fall.

Works similar that Fly, but the opponent can't do nothing in the turn that is in the skies.

Well, altrought Wargle have things "that-i-dunno", can be a good PKMN.
See you.
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I'm a bit too late I think, but my Kirikizan got a +2 boost after being intimidated by a Waruvial.
 
There were a lot of good additions this generation, like Encourage, but GF is getting really annoying. They dangle a carrot in front of our noses and we never get to eat it. Wargle desperately wants more moves to use with Encourage! Rock Slide is nice, but that isn't cutting it. Until then, I think Wargle's only use is as a Bulk Up user to take advantage of its superior defenses. Otherwise, Staraptor just does it all better.

*sobs* and I had high hopes for this awesome looking Pokemon. It needed to be Fighting/Flying. It's a freaking WAR BIRD.
 
Fire punch and roost are probably the best possible additions to its movepool.

Encourage
max atk/speed for crush claw, maybe max hp and sp def or atk for roost.
Brave Bird
fire punch
bulk up
roost/crush claw/ superpower (heatran)

So if we get fire punch and roost as tutors in Grey, Wargle's good to go (assuming it learns fire punch).
 
Wow, I didn't even realize he doesn't get Roost, not even as an Egg move (because he has none...) That's so stupid. They better bring in some good tutors :/
 
I have tried Wargle and I was fairly surprised by how bulky he is. I have used the following set:

Wargle@life orb
Encourage
Adamant 252 hp/ 252 Speed /4 attack
-brave bird
-crush claw
-rock slide
-claw sharpen

I am planning to replace claw sharpen for bulk up as I barely used it. I am surprised how much punishment he can take. Although slow, he very manageable with his bulk.
 
Wargle is now known as Braviary.
I like it. It combines "bravery" and "aviary" obviously, but it also enforces the Native American vibe because warriors are known as "braves". Ah, that warbonnet and patriotic coloring go so well together.
No idea how to edit the thread title...
 
i think he said that cause wargle new name sucks *sarcarm*

i think you gotta do that voodoo pimp said? if you cant then ask a mod or something.
 
Braviary's a good name in all honesty.

But it is far outclassed by Wargle.

And I would like to add if it just gets roost...

Wargle@lefties
Adamant, competitive spirit
max sp def/max atk
Brave Bird
Superpower
Bulk Up
Roost

Could be a bulk upper to rival Roobushin, sacrificing the ability to heal and attack at the same time, immunity to burn, and priority for more raw power off with moves nearly twice as poweful. Also able to heal off anything as opposed to being screwed by ghosts/resists. Too bad the ability only helps with intimidate and not superpower.

Yeah I meant if it gets roost in the future... If you look up some more you'll see I'm the guy who said it doesn't get roost in the first place. And to the guy who said no good theorymonning, it's entirely possible since many move tutors are past gen tms, so roost actually has a pretty decent chance at being a tutor, unlike sacred fire.
 
Roost did not keep its TM status, making Theorymoning such a set pointless. It's the same as "What if Salamence got Sacred Fire" or something along those lines.

On topic, I'm concurring with the previous posts saying that Braviary should be used for its bulk, as it is otherwise outclassed by Staraptor as a pure offensive powerhouse.

Braviary@Leftovers
Careful; 248 Atk / 216 SpD / 44 Spe

Bulk Up
Brave Bird
Superpower
Return / Thrash

This set takes advantage of both Braviary's bulk and power in one set, and is probably one of its best shots at standing out among the other birds. Min SpA Vaporeon's Ice Beam fails to 2HKO without rocks, while +1 Braviary 2HKOs with Return in exchange. After a Bulk Up, Braviary can actually survive 252 Atk Jolly Tyranitar's Stone Edge and retaliate (though that is rare). The speed lets it outrun minimum speed base 85s, the most important of which is Suicune.
 
Gamefreak has a tendency to choose some of its tutors from old TMs.
So I still hold out hope for Braviary eventually getting Roost.
Until then, Staraptor beckons.
 
IcyMan28 said:
Braviary@Leftovers
Careful; 248 Atk / 216 SpD / 44 Spe

Bulk Up
Brave Bird
Superpower
Return / Thrash

This set takes advantage of both Braviary's bulk and power in one set, and is probably one of its best shots at standing out among the other birds. Min SpA Vaporeon's Ice Beam fails to 2HKO without rocks, while +1 Braviary 2HKOs with Return in exchange. After a Bulk Up, Braviary can actually survive 252 Atk Jolly Tyranitar's Stone Edge and retaliate (though that is rare). The speed lets it outrun minimum speed base 85s, the most important of which is Suicune.
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That EV spread looks like the kind of bulkier spread I've been looking for. I had tried the LO Bulk Up set with maxed Attack and Speed, but I don't think it worked as well as a spread aimed at higher survivability would.
Rock Slide is still an possibility over Brave Bird if you don't want the recoil, and if you run Sheer Force it's a worthwhile option. That just means Return is your main STAB, or Crush Claw for Sheer Force-Life Orb abuse sets. In fact, I feel like it might almost be worth running BB over Superpower. You may lose the ability to take on Steel types, but you don't have to nullify your Bulk Up boosts either, which is a serious drawback to Superpower. Besides, with Rock Slide you still have respectable coverage, and Return and Brave Bird are plenty powerful.

Braviary @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature, Sheer Force
EVs however, definitely more focused on bulk
-Bulk Up
-Return
-Rock Slide
-Brave Bird
 
Braviary could be pretty powerful with a Life Orb and it's 123 Attack. What makes this better is that if a move that gets boosted by Encourage is used, there is no Life Orb recoil. Also, Crush Claw would get boosted by Encourage and have a 50% chance to lower their defense, which could force some switches or nearly guarantee a KO.

Braviary @ Life Orb
Encourage
Adamant
56 HP/ 252 Atk/ 200 Spe
-Brave Bird
-Superpower
-Crush Claw
-Rock Slide/Bulk Up

This is a set that could be powerful. With a potential defense drop from a double-boosted Crush Claw, Braviary could be a force to be reckoned with. Rock Slide for coverage (plus no recoiled stats/HP on Ice, Flying, Bug), or Bulk Up for more power and survivability.
 
Crush Claw is still outclassed by Return sure it takes no LO recoil but it has less BP and only 95% acc.
I would always prefer Competetive Spirit over Encourage as his Move Pool to abuse Encorage is basically limited to Rock Slide and Crush Claw the fromer isn't really needed and the latter can be replaced by Return. Getting +1 Atk when being intimidated or even +2 when getting a defense drop from the likes of Energy Ball, Crunch, Psychic or Focus Blast is way more useful compared to how little he gets from Encourage even if its situational.
 
BurningMan said:
Crush Claw is still outclassed by Return sure it takes no LO recoil but it has less BP and only 95% acc.
I would always prefer Competetive Spirit over Encourage as his Move Pool to abuse Encorage is basically limited to Rock Slide and Crush Claw the fromer isn't really needed and the latter can be replaced by Return. Getting +1 Atk when being intimidated or even +2 when getting a defense drop from the likes of Energy Ball, Crunch, Psychic or Focus Blast is way more useful compared to how little he gets from Encourage even if its situational.
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Umm what? Those moves hardly EVER activate! And so what if crush claw is slightly weaker the return? The fact that u don't get life orb recoil makes up for it,BIG TIME. On top of that Braviarys movepool is kinda weak without the boost(shadow claw is still weak with either ability).
 
BurningMan said:
Crush Claw is still outclassed by Return sure it takes no LO recoil but it has less BP and only 95% acc.
I would always prefer Competetive Spirit over Encourage as his Move Pool to abuse Encorage is basically limited to Rock Slide and Crush Claw the fromer isn't really needed and the latter can be replaced by Return. Getting +1 Atk when being intimidated or even +2 when getting a defense drop from the likes of Energy Ball, Crunch, Psychic or Focus Blast is way more useful compared to how little he gets from Encourage even if its situational.
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I concur with this. Flying is the better stab to use rather than normal, and rock slide provides him with almost no coverage. His Normal stab is only resisted by rock, steel, and ghost (1 which also resists rock, and 1 which is hit harder by shadow claw), and flying only by steel, rock, and electric. When you add the fact he has fighting moves and pretty much always runs one, that leaves you with either ghost or electric. Ghost is hit SE by shadow claw, and the only defensive electric is Zapdos, who outspeeds and probably ohkos. Rock slide may hit it SE, but Braviary still loses.

And immunity to intimidate is the big thing, the other side effects are just an extra.
 
BurningMan said:
Crush Claw is still outclassed by Return sure it takes no LO recoil but it has less BP and only 95% acc.
I would always prefer Competetive Spirit over Encourage as his Move Pool to abuse Encorage is basically limited to Rock Slide and Crush Claw the fromer isn't really needed and the latter can be replaced by Return. Getting +1 Atk when being intimidated or even +2 when getting a defense drop from the likes of Energy Ball, Crunch, Psychic or Focus Blast is way more useful compared to how little he gets from Encourage even if its situational.
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I LOLed soo hard when i read this statement..seriously you expect this bird to survive such attacks bar energy ball AND THEN..be able to attack back switching into SR + Attacked and/or LO recoil...NOT ONLY that but the chances of his stat dropping from those moves are 10%...some 20%..still and you say that Competative Spirit is better..and Braviary's movepool is way too shallow to not abuse Encourage..yeah sorry Crush Claw isnt as strong as return..but i would still take that over return thanks for to that no Life Orb recoil
 
I've tested Wargle / Braviary extenstively and, honestly, Encourage is not the way to go.

If you're running Encourage, you're also probably going for a LO Orb set. This means that you're stuck with an abysmally low speed stat (for OU) that would would be good if your defenses were anything more than "decent." But that's all they are: merely passable. Sure, you don't fold to random moves like Staraptor does but a dedicated SE attack is going to kill you.

A Bulk Up or Claw Sharpen set really doesn't achieve what you want it to. You're stuck between reducing your health or stats (Brave Bird / Superpower) and weaker moves (Aerial Ace).

What I've found is that to maximize the potential gains from Wargle you're going to have to pretend like it's a bulky Staraptor who is immune to Intimidate. The set that I used that generally net about 1-2 kills a match was:

Wargle @ Choice Scarf
Competitive Spirit
4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 Speed; Adamant Nature

Brave Bird
Superpower
Thrash / Return (I tried both)
U-turn

123 Base Attack, coupled with 120 Base Power moves, results in Heracross-like damage output. At first you should simply use it to scout with U-turn until you get a decent idea of what your opponent has / likes to switch in. At that point it's simply a matter of picking the right move for the job as you'll dent everything not named Skarmory / Gliscor pretty heavily with Brave Bird / Superpower (and Brave Bird still does a number on a Gliscor that invests heavily in speed [read: all of them]).

Thrash v Return is simply a matter of preference but I found that I often got a OHKO on Zapdos after SR with Thrash while I usually found myself fried if I tried Return. Still, it's all preference.

I'm not joking when I say I've used this guy a _lot_, really. He's so cool.
 
jamashawalker said:
I LOLed soo hard when i read this statement..seriously you expect this bird to survive such attacks bar energy ball AND THEN..be able to attack back switching into SR + Attacked and/or LO recoil...NOT ONLY that but the chances of his stat dropping from those moves are 10%...some 20%..still and you say that Competative Spirit is better..and Braviary's movepool is way too shallow to not abuse Encourage..yeah sorry Crush Claw isnt as strong as return..but i would still take that over return thanks for to that no Life Orb recoil
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Well 100/75/75 defenses aren't that bad and i am sure he could survive some of these hits ,think about Zuruzukins Crunch not TTars (though they got weaker now that most go mixed) etc.
Ofc the defense drops aren't the main reason to use Competetive Spirit is the Intimidate boost.
Why would you abuse Rock Slide? On choice sets? they are all outclassed by Staraptor, his only niche is Bulk Up wich only allows 3 Attacks and Return (Crush Claw if you want), Brave Bird and Super Power (yeah the drops are unappealing on a Bulk UP set, but still better than getting walled by Steels) is clearly the way to go.
The Fact that Gyarados or Salamence can't come in to ruin your fun and set up on you outweights the lack of a LO recoil less Stab that got imperfect accuary at least for me.
I think this is one of those cases where you can argue forever wich one is the better both got its merits and flaws and honestly i don't see me using this guy in the future as he doesn't got much going for him.
 
Competitively, he's not that impressive, but braviary is a pretty cool name. Also, he's better than some other normal birds. (although fearow with drill liner may give him competition.)
 
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