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Breloom
- Thread starter Manaphy
- Start date
Those are 3 pokes and scor has to be in a turn before poison activates, gyara needs to sub, gengar needs to sub, etc.
You don't send in breloom on one of these pokes, they switch into you or you are already set up by the time that happens.
If they faced one on one, gengar would either sleep or get sub stalled with a bit of prediction.
again, gengar is a lot faster than loom. sub is up before loom spores...
I think this is assuming that Breloom has a sub up before Gengar switches in. Even so, Gengar outspeeds to block the Spore or Leech Seed with Substitute, resists Seed Bomb and Bullet Seed and is immune to Focus Punch. A SubDisable set can completely neuter Breloom "with a bit of prediction".
Fair enough, but the capacity to kill isn't quite the same thing as having an edge. Gengar's Shadow Ball deals a minimum of 97% damage to a Breloom without HP investment, a guaranteed KO with SR or basically any previous damage taken. For contrast, SubPunching Breloom's with full Attack investment can't net even a 2HKO with Seed Bomb so even if they have the best possible conditions (Substitute already up, Sleep clause not yet in effect), they are far from safe. Technician Brelooms don't really have the moveslot to use Substitute, so they just have to eat the 97% - 114.8%.
In almost all situations, Gengar has an easy time dealing with Breloom. In the few where things are more difficult, the Breloom player needs to predict as carefully as the Gengar.
In almost all situations, Gengar has an easy time dealing with Breloom. In the few where things are more difficult, the Breloom player needs to predict as carefully as the Gengar.
Never has a shadow ball done close to 100% with my no investment breloom O_o
I'd like to share this test I've been using in DW OU and it's been an absolute thrill so far:
Breloom @ LO
Technician
Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Spore
SD
Mach Punch
Bullet Seed
I know SD & LO might seem like overkill, but instead of using expert belt or fist plate this gives Loom immediate power in addition to it's Techni boost. This thing is awesome, it just murders things left and right and Chandalure is the only pokemon who can stand infront of it so far.
Breloom @ LO
Technician
Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Spore
SD
Mach Punch
Bullet Seed
I know SD & LO might seem like overkill, but instead of using expert belt or fist plate this gives Loom immediate power in addition to it's Techni boost. This thing is awesome, it just murders things left and right and Chandalure is the only pokemon who can stand infront of it so far.
That's pretty much older than time, not any less effective though. I favour a focus sash myself - it's got raw power, but it excels in just ruining other people's days by hitting through Sturdy/Sash/Sub, pacifying them and then setting up a priority sweep - so the longer it's alive the better usually. Even at 1hp, an SD Mach Punch can carry a game.
Lum Berry DDnite will just eat this thing.
Gliscor will just eat Excadrill.
Anyway, things like Dragonite do have an easy time with Techniloom, due to the Fighting resist and a 4x Grass resist.
Gengar can't switch in on Bullet Seed, despite its resistance to the move, as one Bullet Seed hit (Life Orb) does 24.9% - 29.12%, guaranteed 2HKO with two Bullet Seed hits after SR. 3 hits will do tons of damage, 4 hits will OHKO after SR. Gengar does 98.47% - 115.65% with Life Orb Shadow Ball, reduced to 49.62% - 58.4% behind screens, so a Breloom behind screens can SD as Gengar comes in, and will avoid the OHKO from Shadow Ball and in turn a 2-hit Bullet Seed will OHKO Gengar, assuming Stealth Rock is in play.
That said, pretty much the only way to truly counter Techniloom is to use a Pokemon with a resistance to Mach Punch and a 4x resistance to Bullet Seed, for example: Dragonite, Salamence, Volcarona, and even Charizard and Moltres for all I care. All of those have the advantage of being able to hit Breloom for super effective damage.
That said, SD Techniloom won't be staying in on those Pokemon anytime soon. It's not that hard to run Pokemon that can beat those Pokemon on your team, and as for Charizard and Moltres, they're beaten enough by Stealth Rock anyway.
However, something I think could beat these Pokemon: A Choice Band set!
Breloom (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Tomb
- Low Sweep
Rock Tomb is a solid 2HKO on Salamence, even with Intimidate factored in. Obviously Dragonite won't like switching in on one of those due to the speed drop, then. Rock Tomb is chosen because it lowers the Speed of their "counter", since most of SD Techniloom's counters are faster than it (bar Skarmory), and this set aims to lure and beat most of them. Gengar won't like switching in on a Rock Tomb either. Bullet Seed cuts through the waters like a hot knife through butter. Heatran won't like switching in on Mach Punch or Low Sweep; it's not like Heatran could touch SD Techniloom anyway. Chansey, who would otherwise take a Mach Punch, gets OHKOed by Low Sweep after SR. Don't forget to use Scarf Chandelure with this, otherwise Skarmory will be trouble, just as it always was for Breloom, and a +2 Lucario will be GG.
...rock tomb?
I don't like a CB set on Breloom, because running Choiced Fighting attacks is just flat out begging Chandelure to come in and 6-0 you. No kidding. As for the SD set, I prefer that Breloom run bulk instead of Speed, since 1) You're not outspeeding anything of note and 2) Breloom's typing is really good, and chucking in bulk really helps it survive hits a lot more. Without bulk investment, LO Excadrill's EQ does 69.47% - 81.68%, which is just not cool. I run 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe to outspeed Wobbuffet, and it really lets you switch into bulky waters a lot, lot better than with no bulk at all.
I personally cannot wait for the release of Technician Breloom. Both the Bulk Up Poison Heal and Swords Dance Technician sets are capable of tearing apart an entire team. Moreover, on the turn Breloom switches in, your opponent will be kept guessing which set it is: Bulk Up or Swords Dance. Since the two sets share very few common counters, if your opponent guesses wrong they could be staring at a sweep. By the time Breloom reveals whether it has Toxic Orb or not, it might already be too late. For this reason, Breloom has been incredibly dominant in the Dreamworld tier, and should continue to do so in standard.
I also don't like the idea of Choice Band Breloom either, nor do I like Rock Tomb. Breloom's two best sets are, in fact, the SD Technician and BU Poison Heal sets. Why? Because they can guarantee themselves set-up with Spore. Even without Spore, Breloom will likely force a switch due to the opponent's paranoia, and will get itself a boost anyways. Rock Tomb I don't particularly like for one reason: it has less power than Stone Edge. While the Speed drop can come in handy, Breloom really really really wants to score KOs against the likes of Zapdos. Even with Technician, Rock Tomb is outdamaged by Stone Edge, and while the Speed drop could be useful, it is gimmick at best.
I also don't like the idea of Choice Band Breloom either, nor do I like Rock Tomb. Breloom's two best sets are, in fact, the SD Technician and BU Poison Heal sets. Why? Because they can guarantee themselves set-up with Spore. Even without Spore, Breloom will likely force a switch due to the opponent's paranoia, and will get itself a boost anyways. Rock Tomb I don't particularly like for one reason: it has less power than Stone Edge. While the Speed drop can come in handy, Breloom really really really wants to score KOs against the likes of Zapdos. Even with Technician, Rock Tomb is outdamaged by Stone Edge, and while the Speed drop could be useful, it is gimmick at best.
The thing with all stat drops, as opposed to all stat ups, is that they are gone the moment the opponent switches. As long as your Breloom is out, it´s SD´s will stand, unless Breloom gets hazed (which noone really does) or get's phazed (which is more likely, but out of your control).
If the speed drop sets in, and you KO an opponents pokémon, the speed drop is gone too. You start at square one with a new pokemon. SD's and BU's remain. That's why I will not use it any time soon, at least not for the Speed drop.
On top of that, Stone Edge is more powerfull, even after technician (Technician Rock Tomb is 75 bp, whereas Stone Edge is 100 bp, regardless of Technician).
Imho, Rock Tomb is completely outclassed.
If the speed drop sets in, and you KO an opponents pokémon, the speed drop is gone too. You start at square one with a new pokemon. SD's and BU's remain. That's why I will not use it any time soon, at least not for the Speed drop.
On top of that, Stone Edge is more powerfull, even after technician (Technician Rock Tomb is 75 bp, whereas Stone Edge is 100 bp, regardless of Technician).
Imho, Rock Tomb is completely outclassed.
Does subpunch breloom gain any additional OHKO if it has 252 Atk EV's over 244?
What about WOW Weezing as a counter? It's not like it won't serve for any other purpose, as it can act as a bulky utility with multiple status, pain split and many special attacks denting some frail sweepers.
I actually really like the idea of CB Breloom to destroy predicted switch-ins but one of it's best gifts is Spore and not using it would like Darkrai not using Dark Void.
If you'll waltz by the Uber RMT, you'll see a specific team--a team that peaked at 32 just-so's-you-know--does run a Darkrai without Dark Void. The wonderful thing about Pokémon with "signature" moves is that it takes an awful lot to disabuse an opponent of the notion that they do not have it. Remember the Rotom forms last gen? Everyone assumed Rotom-W had Hydro Pump and played accordingly, even when it didn't.
By running Breloom without Spore, you benefit from your opponent's incorrect but firmly held belief that you're going to put something to sleep. Is it gimmicky? A little. Does that make it ineffective, in about itself? No.
FYI, I'm not affiliated with the aforementioned team, nor did I post a like for any purpose other than to strengthen my argument. Yep.
By running Breloom without Spore, you benefit from your opponent's incorrect but firmly held belief that you're going to put something to sleep. Is it gimmicky? A little. Does that make it ineffective, in about itself? No.
FYI, I'm not affiliated with the aforementioned team, nor did I post a like for any purpose other than to strengthen my argument. Yep.
