Hematite's post is focusing on the Double Masters teams
This is the Single Masters order
Single: Roark - Gardenia - Maylene - Byron - Candice - Fantina - Crasher Wake - Volkner - Cynthia - Palmer
i don't think there's been digging on their teams
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- Thread starter DHR-107
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This is the Single Masters order
Single: Roark - Gardenia - Maylene - Byron - Candice - Fantina - Crasher Wake - Volkner - Cynthia - Palmer
i don't think there's been digging on their teams
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Hema's post did have singles teams tho
Oh you're right, my mistake.
I was just so focused on the doubles because of the stat trainers and galactic bosses
MAMP
MAMP!
a couple of hackmons relevant mechanics questions, i figure some of this stuff might work differently to swsh bc this is developed by a different team in a different engine:
- do pokemon specific items work the same way with imposter? i.e will light ball imposter pikachu get doubled attacking stats after transforming? does eviolite imposter chansey get the defense boosts after it transforms?
- can you hack in a pokemon with max evs in every stat and bring it to a link battle?
- if you have an ability like pixilate + judgment with no plate, what type is it?
ILCA if you're watching this just letting you know there is a Outrage @ Level 41 in Dragonite's learnset instead of 71.
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
If you think that's good, look at Mamoswine. Its fist 3 moves that you needed to Level Up for are Level 1 and the rest of the moves were shifted so they're three moves earlier as far as Level needed goes. Earthquake at Level 30 instead of 51 is a game breaker! (Look at Serebii's moveset changes to see what I mean.)
Are the egg learnsets like, universally the Gen 7 ones? I'm trying to make comparisons and going a bit cross-eyed, I can tell Bulbasaur isn't Gen 8 at least. But I don't remember any particular Gen 8 egg gains to check off the dome
There seems to be a pretty scant number of level up set changes for mons that were in SwSh, which is good for my dataset.
There seems to be a pretty scant number of level up set changes for mons that were in SwSh, which is good for my dataset.
It's exactly the same as Gen 7, with scrapped moves removed as well some oddities here and there, like the Piplup line lost Power Trip as it cannot breed with the Sandile line or Morpeko (although it could just breed with Smeargle instead... but ILCA still removed it)
I'm almost certain that this is actually GameFreak's doing and ILCA just copy-pasted their list. I distinctly remember when Crown Tundra dropped that someone pointed out this particular error in Dragonite's level up list.
Wow, I take it back then. As far as I can tell this is still true in SWSH today and it just ended up that Bulbapedia is the one website that has this wrong. You're good ILCA.
Ah, well that's probably different enough to list both sets in a dataset. It really is such a pain trying to figure out ways to sort when before you could be reasonably sure that any egg moves at the start of a gen would still be there at the end.
Now that I have my copy I'll actually get to play instead of doing spreadsheets about it :)
Do does this Salamance introduce a lot of mess to Battle Tower Teams?
Maybe Roark is now Dinozaura/Dragons now?
Is a Salamance anywhere close to Ttar and Rampardos on the leaked Battle Tower Pokemon list?
Do the synchronize mechanics work on gift jirachi/mew?
THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE NO ONE TOLD ME THE TOWER SETS WERE OVERHAULED IN 1.1
They actually appear to have changed quite a lot o_o
Roark's Salamence is a replacement for his Kabutops, or so it would seem! They have the same set ID and everything O:
Fortunately, the mysterious @bWFpbA appears to have joined Twitter just to provide the missing data I have literally no idea who you are but THANK YOU, so I have an updated sheet!!
Here are the Battle Tower sets as of version 1.1!
I have not had the time to make a changelog yet and may not for a bit, but there are much bigger differences than I expected!
I have also included the sets' internal IDs, which is information I found useful because the set IDs are clearly grouped in meaningful ways and this actually backs up the way I had distinguished the bosses earlier; set ID information was not on the 1.0 sheet I used as reference but is data I chose to incorporate myself after reviewing it. I have also used this to reach some conjectures as to how Pokémon are grouped (there are 3 sets before the first Palmer fight, another 4 before the second Palmer fight, and a gigantic eighth set between Palmer 2 and the Master Class bosses; these match previous games' distinct sets of Pokémon based on streak length and correlate cleanly with the Tower being taken in sets of 7 battles, Palmer being fought once again at the end of the third and seventh).
I also color-coded the Pokémon with stickers like on my other Trainer sheet! You can see which Pokémon are their Trainers' favorites now. : D
Notably, not only is Fantina's bizarre Dragonite intact, but she now has a Crawdaunt to match o.o'
In fact, every Gym Leader now has a handful more off-type Pokémon diversifying their teams! Who would have thought...? The Dragonite was not a mistake but a sign of things to come!
The Eject Button Politoed is also gone this time around, so we will not get to see
Tagging Level 51 because you're the only Battle Tower person who's posted in the thread so far - this might be useful to you!
Volkner runs Electrive/Gyarados core. He's unstoppable.
Do you have to catch Dialga/Palkia when you first fight them, or can you KO and return after E4?
Can we treat that Gyarados as a counterpart to Flint's Steelix?
Also of note is that 106 sets were added in the update, and based on the set ids only going up to 294 in the 1.0 data but 400 in the 1.1.1 data it's pretty clear where they were added (more explicitly - everything between Shuca Berry Ninetales and the Abomasnow before the boss Pokemon on Hematite's sheet should be new).
leader patch notes
In general, no doubles matches were changed. I guess they figured that since they're paired with another character, the type coverage isnt as important. So al changes are singles based.
Roark :
Cradily -> Slowbro . Same basic idea (stall), even has the same EVs
Tyranitar 2 now has a Chopple Berry instead of a Smooth Rock
Focus Sash Kabutops -> Lum Berry Salamence
Choice Specs Omastar -> Charcoal Drought Torkoal
Gardenia:
Cradily 2 -> Milotic. Full change, including EVs and IVs.
Breloom 2 - > Ninetales. Full change.
Incidentally in Gardenia's 1.0 set, these 2 were full clones of Cradily/Breloom 1.
Maylene:
Lucario 1 -> Empoleon. Same idea (special attacker), same EVs & nature
Heracross -> Dragonite. Same idea, same Evs etc
Mayele had 3 distinct Lucario sets, I imagine that's why a seeming ace got replaced here.
Crasher Wake
Politoed item went from Eject Button to Damp Rock
Kabutops -> Armaldo. Same idea.
Azumarill -> Scizor. Same idea
Wake interestingly doesnt have really have an ace at all? Trainers usually double up on their Ace (and occasionally other Pokemon) but Wake's never had that.
Fantina
Banette -> Crawdaunt. Same idea
For some reason Fantina has 2 Dusknoir with the same exact sets. Based on Gardenia, I would have thought the Dusknoir would be replaced, not Banette.
Byron:
Magnezone -> Moltres. Full change
Heatran 1 -> Pelipper. Same idea
Heatran 1 kind of stands out in retrospect. It had the same moveset as Heatran 2, but a Choice Scarf & Modest Nature, both of which were carried over to Pelipper.
Candice:
Lapras 1 -> Heatran. Full change
Articuno -> Venusaur. Full change
Lapras 1 was a clone of Lapras 2.
Volkner:
Raikou -> Gyarados. Full change
Raichu -> Swampert. Full change
Cynthia & Palmer had no changes.
Looks like the named trainers' teams might be pre-allocated in chunks of 3 (singles) or 4 (doubles). This appears to be corroborated by e.g. Mixeli's vids on YT and various anecdotes from playthroughs; also looks likely given that important weather setters (Ninetales, Politoed, Pelipper) are always at the front of their chunks of 3, item clause is upheld within each chunk of 3, and some chunks have obvious strategies (e.g. Roark's TR Lunatone followed by Eruption Torkoal and Brave Rampardos).
Helpful to be able to tell which Garchomp Cynthia's running based on what her lead is!
Helpful to be able to tell which Garchomp Cynthia's running based on what her lead is!
Oh! I wasn't on my laptop after my previous post, so I was mostly just doing some eyeballing, but I was also looking for changes and caught a few more while talking with
I had some observations on possible reasons for the changes as well, so it feels worth pasting them here.
One thing that might help for context: lydian noticed some patterns in the team sets the last time I posted the 1.0 sheet that made them suspect the doubles bosses were three discrete teams of four (with specific leads and specific replacements), not just pairs that could be mixed and matched. They initially made this observation based on certain Pokémon that looked like they were supposed to be leads always appearing in the first slots of a potential team if ordered this way, but there is a lot more backing it!
Among other things, this is a potential reason why certain sets were repeated (because they're on different teams), why the singles bosses all have exactly 9 Pokémon (three teams of three) and the doubles bosses exactly 12 (three teams of four), why the rosters consistently abide by species clause and item clause when divided in those ways, and why some of them appear to be meaningfully themed/Pokémon are designed to synergize with the same team but not other teams (like Fantina and Gardenia having two sun teams and one Trick Room team, or Candice using Venusaur on the one team that doesn't have a hail setter).
lyd also made the really clever observation that, if Barry and Palmer have three distinct teams of four rather than an arbitrary pool of twelve, each of their teams has exactly one of Barry's starters - we're both really curious to see if that fight picks at random like the others or if it's aimed to be consistent with his playthrough team, the latter of which would be a first for a battle facility but would not be the only first (ILCA is demonstrably reaching unprecedented levels of specificity in every other area of team and set design already!).
Although we have only seen footage of a single battle so far, it does match their hypothesis - in Mixeli's battle, Roark led with his fourth Pokémon and used his fourth, fifth and sixth ("team 2") - and in general, it seems like grouping the Pokémon this way makes sense (decidedly more so than assuming three sets are picked at random like they would be in previous facility - there would be no need for duplicates if that were so, but duplicates still do exist), so I have used it as the basis of some more speculation here! I divided the changes I noticed into "team 1," "team 2" and "team 3" where applicable and tried to note where the replacements appeared to fill the same role as the original in their respective set of three or four teammates:
Okay
so Roark:
- Team 1 just replaces Cradily with Slowbro
- Team 2 changes Tyranitar's item from Smooth Rock to Chople Berry seemingly to accommodate for the addition of Salamence, then also. uh. adds Salamence!
- Team 3 is an interesting one...!! This is a Trick Room team and that's why he added Torkoal to it - it's meant to synergize with Lunatone I guess O:
It helps a lot to realize these are three distinct teams - it's cool to see how Torkoal fits in as a new addition now : D
It looks like Roark and Byron as a pair are completely unchanged!
Gardenia:
- Team 1 is unchanged
- Team 2's Rotom and Roserade are unchanged but they replaced another CradilyRIP Cradily apparently with her new Milotic
- Team 3 once again is way more interesting - this one went from a relatively un-themed team to a sun team, not only replacing her Breloom with a Heat Rock Ninetales but changing her Venusaur to a Chlorophyll set!
Mira and Cheryl also look to be unchanged!
Maylene:
- Team 1 appears to be going for a FWG core, so that's where she gets the random Empoleon?? Her other two Pokémon are unchanged; she just dropped Lucario (also holy this team looks terrifying)
- Really at a loss for why she traded her Heracross for a completely unrelated Dragonite but that would appear to be the only change in team 2
- I think team 3 is the same this time!
Fantina and Gardenia:
- either I did something weird with my first sheet without realizing or they flipped the order of their Pokémon for some reason
- Their teams look to be the same as before but dividing them into three once again makes their purposes a whole lot clearer - the first two are sun teams, but the third one is a Trick Room team!
Wake:
- team 1 is the same
- OH MY GOODNESS THE EJECT BUTTON POLITOED BELONGED TO WAKE?? I didn't even realize
... anyway they confiscated its contraband and it has a Damp Rock now :'D It looks like the rest of the set is the same, but Perish Song synergized directly with Eject Button in theory so I actually don't think it was a typo or meant to be a Damp Rock all along by any means
... wow Damp Rock + Drizzle sounds really mean in 3v3
Uh, also his Kabutops was replaced with an Armaldo, but one with the same Ability and item! It's clear they had in mind that it should fill the same role as before because team 2 was already very coherent and very threatening; they were just making a point to diversify his types
- Speeeaking of diversifying his types, genuinely loving the choice to add a Band Scizor to his third team (also a rain team), forming a pivoting core with Pelipper and thoroughly appreciating the Fire reduction of rain while slotting in boosted priority moves in a manner similar to his Azumarill
Saturn and Jupiter:
- the first thing I looked for was whether Saturn still had a Skuntank of his own, and he does!
- All three teams here seem completely identical to before
Fantina:
- the only change here is replacing Banette with Crawdaunt, but it's interesting how similar the sets are! both have Knock, priority and a Sitrus Berry for some reason
Candice and Maylene look completely unchanged except that, like Gardenia and Fantina, their sets are reversed in position and I can't tell if that was just an error on my part on the old sheet or not
Byron:
- Team 1 has a completely new Moltres lead replacing Magnezone and I am admittedly at a loss as to why P: I guess the thinking was to trade an Occa Berry holder for an actual Fire resist...?
- Team 2 trades Scarf Heatran for Scarf Pelipper - interesting that these are also both anti-Fire measures and have the same held item! He and Wake seem to be converging on exactly the same Scizor/Pelipper pivoting core, just each sending out a different one first... that's super interesting
- Team 3 looks completely unchanged
Riley and Marley look unchanged to me!
Candice:
- Team 1 is unchanged
- Team 2 randomly swaps lead Lapras for lead Heatran I literally have no idea why - I guess the same idea of upgrading her anti-Fire measures...??
- Team 3 is mostly unchanged (notably keeps the Lapras) but trades her Articuno for the most random of Venusaur
I don't know why she has a Venusaur I think she was just excited not to have hail chip
Buck and Bertha:
Team 1 and 3 are unchanged, but... HUH. Team 2 has the same species, held items and Abilities all the way through, but they change the movesets of their lead Regirock and Hippowdon! Regirock loses Fire Punch for Protect so Hippowdon can safely run Earthquake, so Hippowdon takes Earthquake as its spread move of choice over Rock Slide and takes Ice Fang over Fissure
I can't believe no version of this team has Explosion on Regirock what are you doing
This is such an underwhelming take on Sturdy Custap @.@ Buck come on
Volkner:
all of the species that stayed the same keep the same sets,
but he replaces Raikou with Gyarados in team 2in what appears to be an entertaining reference to the Gyarados/Electivire core that would absolutely rock OU and definitely leave its mark (they really like the absence of Team Preview here huh!!)
and team 3 replaces a Lightning Rod Raichu with a Swampert, which is another interesting case of completely changing the species of a Pokémon and diversify types but with a clear intention to approximate the same defensive utility
Uh, wait, wh
so this did get me to notice that his original team had Band Raichu? I kind of love it why would you delete this
Volkner and Flint:
- Volkner's Wash Rotom in team 1 used to be Trick/Life Orb for some reason; they decided this was a mistake and gave it a Scarf... and then replaced Trick too |D it will get the strat one day
Volkner also had an Electivire with the unusual Feint, which he replaced with Protect... huh.
- Team 2 and team 3 look unchanged to me!
Cynthia:
- All of her species are unchanged, but the Lucario on team 1 has a different set! It just trades Band for Lum Berry and Extreme Speed for Bullet Punch, huh!
- I also just noticed she has three different Garchomp sets, one of which is Band and one of which is Scarf with the same moves (oh that's evil) and one of which is Sash/SD but has three other moves in commonI am glad I made a team dump so you can tell them apart
Mars and Cyrus:
- Team 1 is the same except Cyrus's Salamence, which just changes from Yache Berry to White Herb for synergy with its Draco Meteor
- Team 2... Mars replaces both of her Pokémon - she trades Mr. Mime for an Espeon with the same set (but obviously Magic Bounce) and Tangrowth for a completely unrelated Togekiss, probably for synergy with Entei's Bulldoze? O:
- Team 3 looks the same to me!
Lastly,
Palmer looks completely unchanged
Barry and Palmer:
- on team 2, Barry's Heracross is different! It changes from Black Belt to Scarf and trades Megahorn for Rock Slide in the process, apparently to fish for flinches and Moxie boosts alike o.o'
Palmer's Cresselia also loses Lunar Dance for Moonblast but looks the same otherwi-- oh of course it. was always meant to be his last Pokémon. why would it ever want Lunar Dance.
- Team 3 was also overhauled! Torterra trades Leftovers + Leech Seed for Quick Claw + Bulldoze, Milotic trades Sitrus + Dragon Pulse + Recover for White Herb (Competitive synergy or just Bulldoze synergy? I feel like it doesn't work with Competitive but I'm not sure) + Hydro Pump + Protect, and then Snorlax trades Recycle for Crunch(Recycle is cooler but fair)
so Roark:
- Team 1 just replaces Cradily with Slowbro
- Team 2 changes Tyranitar's item from Smooth Rock to Chople Berry seemingly to accommodate for the addition of Salamence, then also. uh. adds Salamence!
- Team 3 is an interesting one...!! This is a Trick Room team and that's why he added Torkoal to it - it's meant to synergize with Lunatone I guess O:
It helps a lot to realize these are three distinct teams - it's cool to see how Torkoal fits in as a new addition now : D
It looks like Roark and Byron as a pair are completely unchanged!
Gardenia:
- Team 1 is unchanged
- Team 2's Rotom and Roserade are unchanged but they replaced another Cradily
- Team 3 once again is way more interesting - this one went from a relatively un-themed team to a sun team, not only replacing her Breloom with a Heat Rock Ninetales but changing her Venusaur to a Chlorophyll set!
Mira and Cheryl also look to be unchanged!
Maylene:
- Team 1 appears to be going for a FWG core, so that's where she gets the random Empoleon?? Her other two Pokémon are unchanged; she just dropped Lucario (also holy this team looks terrifying)
- Really at a loss for why she traded her Heracross for a completely unrelated Dragonite but that would appear to be the only change in team 2
- I think team 3 is the same this time!
Fantina and Gardenia:
- either I did something weird with my first sheet without realizing or they flipped the order of their Pokémon for some reason
- Their teams look to be the same as before but dividing them into three once again makes their purposes a whole lot clearer - the first two are sun teams, but the third one is a Trick Room team!
Wake:
- team 1 is the same
- OH MY GOODNESS THE EJECT BUTTON POLITOED BELONGED TO WAKE?? I didn't even realize
... anyway they confiscated its contraband and it has a Damp Rock now :'D It looks like the rest of the set is the same, but Perish Song synergized directly with Eject Button in theory so I actually don't think it was a typo or meant to be a Damp Rock all along by any means
... wow Damp Rock + Drizzle sounds really mean in 3v3
Uh, also his Kabutops was replaced with an Armaldo, but one with the same Ability and item! It's clear they had in mind that it should fill the same role as before because team 2 was already very coherent and very threatening; they were just making a point to diversify his types
- Speeeaking of diversifying his types, genuinely loving the choice to add a Band Scizor to his third team (also a rain team), forming a pivoting core with Pelipper and thoroughly appreciating the Fire reduction of rain while slotting in boosted priority moves in a manner similar to his Azumarill
Saturn and Jupiter:
- the first thing I looked for was whether Saturn still had a Skuntank of his own, and he does!
- All three teams here seem completely identical to before
Fantina:
- the only change here is replacing Banette with Crawdaunt, but it's interesting how similar the sets are! both have Knock, priority and a Sitrus Berry for some reason
Candice and Maylene look completely unchanged except that, like Gardenia and Fantina, their sets are reversed in position and I can't tell if that was just an error on my part on the old sheet or not
Byron:
- Team 1 has a completely new Moltres lead replacing Magnezone and I am admittedly at a loss as to why P: I guess the thinking was to trade an Occa Berry holder for an actual Fire resist...?
- Team 2 trades Scarf Heatran for Scarf Pelipper - interesting that these are also both anti-Fire measures and have the same held item! He and Wake seem to be converging on exactly the same Scizor/Pelipper pivoting core, just each sending out a different one first... that's super interesting
- Team 3 looks completely unchanged
Riley and Marley look unchanged to me!
Candice:
- Team 1 is unchanged
- Team 2 randomly swaps lead Lapras for lead Heatran I literally have no idea why - I guess the same idea of upgrading her anti-Fire measures...??
- Team 3 is mostly unchanged (notably keeps the Lapras) but trades her Articuno for the most random of Venusaur
I don't know why she has a Venusaur I think she was just excited not to have hail chip
Buck and Bertha:
Team 1 and 3 are unchanged, but... HUH. Team 2 has the same species, held items and Abilities all the way through, but they change the movesets of their lead Regirock and Hippowdon! Regirock loses Fire Punch for Protect so Hippowdon can safely run Earthquake, so Hippowdon takes Earthquake as its spread move of choice over Rock Slide and takes Ice Fang over Fissure
This is such an underwhelming take on Sturdy Custap @.@ Buck come on
Volkner:
all of the species that stayed the same keep the same sets,
but he replaces Raikou with Gyarados in team 2
and team 3 replaces a Lightning Rod Raichu with a Swampert, which is another interesting case of completely changing the species of a Pokémon and diversify types but with a clear intention to approximate the same defensive utility
Uh, wait, wh
so this did get me to notice that his original team had Band Raichu? I kind of love it why would you delete this
Volkner and Flint:
- Volkner's Wash Rotom in team 1 used to be Trick/Life Orb for some reason; they decided this was a mistake and gave it a Scarf... and then replaced Trick too |D it will get the strat one day
Volkner also had an Electivire with the unusual Feint, which he replaced with Protect... huh.
- Team 2 and team 3 look unchanged to me!
Cynthia:
- All of her species are unchanged, but the Lucario on team 1 has a different set! It just trades Band for Lum Berry and Extreme Speed for Bullet Punch, huh!
- I also just noticed she has three different Garchomp sets, one of which is Band and one of which is Scarf with the same moves (oh that's evil) and one of which is Sash/SD but has three other moves in common
Mars and Cyrus:
- Team 1 is the same except Cyrus's Salamence, which just changes from Yache Berry to White Herb for synergy with its Draco Meteor
- Team 2... Mars replaces both of her Pokémon - she trades Mr. Mime for an Espeon with the same set (but obviously Magic Bounce) and Tangrowth for a completely unrelated Togekiss, probably for synergy with Entei's Bulldoze? O:
- Team 3 looks the same to me!
Lastly,
Palmer looks completely unchanged
Barry and Palmer:
- on team 2, Barry's Heracross is different! It changes from Black Belt to Scarf and trades Megahorn for Rock Slide in the process, apparently to fish for flinches and Moxie boosts alike o.o'
Palmer's Cresselia also loses Lunar Dance for Moonblast but looks the same otherwi-- oh of course it. was always meant to be his last Pokémon. why would it ever want Lunar Dance.
- Team 3 was also overhauled! Torterra trades Leftovers + Leech Seed for Quick Claw + Bulldoze, Milotic trades Sitrus + Dragon Pulse + Recover for White Herb (Competitive synergy or just Bulldoze synergy? I feel like it doesn't work with Competitive but I'm not sure) + Hydro Pump + Protect, and then Snorlax trades Recycle for Crunch