Metagame Camomons

So, I wanted to report something that I think is a bug. I used Magic Powder on a Ghost/Normal Shield-form Aegislash, but when it transformed to Blade-form, it reverted to Ghost/Normal. I, unfortunately, didn't save the replay.
All in-battle transformations reset the Pokémon's type, weight and base stats. For instance, if you use Speed Swap on Aegislash, then it attacks, its speed resets when it transforms into Blade form.
 

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Quickban Update: Dragonite and Kartana
:ss/Dragonite: :ss/Kartana:

Dragonite and Kartana have both been quickbanned from Camomons! Dragonite once again proved to be too much for the metagame due to Multiscale allowing it to set up too easily, further enabled by the addition of Heavy-Duty Boots this generation. While Kartana lost a valuable STAB option in Return/Frustration this generation, it still proved to be far too powerful for the metagame due to its monstorous Attack stat and still strong coverage making it nearly impossible to switch into.

The council voted on 5 Pokemon at this time, but only Dragonite and Kartana stuck out as banworthy this early on. With the DLC metagame so fresh we decided to keep the slate smaller for the what people on the council believed to be the most pressing, and we will be keeping an eye on and voting on anything on the below list that remains unbanned again in the future. For full transparency, the votes are as follows:
a loserAndyboyChazmEuphonosin the hillsRESULT:
DragoniteBANBANBANBANBANBAN (5-0)
GenesectABSDNBABSDNBBANDNB (1-2-2)
KartanaBANBANBANBANBANBAN (5-0)
KyuremABSDNBABSBANDNBDNB (1-2-2)
ZygardeABSDNBBANBANDNBDNB (2-2-1)
We will keep you guys up to date with any future plans we have for the tier, likely including more bans as we discover more about this new meta! Thank you and keep enjoying the Camomons ladder!

Tagging Kris and The Immortal to implement
 

Euphonos

Resident Camomons Meteorologist, Smogon University
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
III. ILLUSION MECHANICS


[...] Here are my observations with the Illusion mechanics, provided with the condition that Grass/Dark Centiskorch has not sent out yet:

Scenario 1: Upon first switch-in after a Pokemon fainted, Zoroark disguises as a Centiskorch with a Grass/Dark typing.​
Scenario 2: Upon successive switch-ins after a Pokemon fainted, Zoroark disguises as a Centiskorch, this time, with a Ghost/Fire typing.​
Scenario 3: Upon switching Zoroark in within a turn, Zoroark, while disguised as a Centiskorch, appears to have a Ghost/Fire typing first before it becomes Grass/Dark at the end of the turn.​

Therefore, I would like to ask the coding and programming people as to how Illusion is interacted in the Camomons metagame because of the unusual mechanics. I hope someone from the coding / programming department would enlighten us with this as it may greatly affect how we play Zoroark in the future ladder / tournament matches and how we, the Camomons council, will take action with this mechanic moving forward.
Scenario 1: (cf. Turn 21 - 22 of this replay)
Scenario 2: (cf. Turn 14 - 15 of this replay)
Scenario 3: (cf. Turn 8 - 9 of this replay)

urkerab, thank you for addressing to Mitchellenwebb's inquiries regarding in-battle forme changes; what about the Illusion mechanics as shown above? I'm not sure if you're the point person as well in this affair, but is this really intentional, or will this mechanic be worth fixing at some point?
 
Scenario 1: Upon first switch-in after a Pokemon fainted, Zoroark disguises as a Centiskorch with a Grass/Dark typing.
Scenario 2: Upon successive switch-ins after a Pokemon fainted, Zoroark disguises as a Centiskorch, this time, with a Ghost/Fire typing.
Scenario 3: Upon switching Zoroark in within a turn, Zoroark, while disguised as a Centiskorch, appears to have a Ghost/Fire typing first before it becomes Grass/Dark at the end of the turn.

Therefore, I would like to ask the coding and programming people as to how Illusion is interacted in the Camomons metagame because of the unusual mechanics. I hope someone from the coding / programming department would enlighten us with this as it may greatly affect how we play Zoroark in the future ladder / tournament matches and how we, the Camomons council, will take action with this mechanic moving forward.
Whoops, I totally meant to answer this before. Sorry about that.

What's supposed to happen is that Zoroark disguises as Centiskorch with a Grass/Dark typing. Now the Camomons on ROM has slightly different code so you don't get to see the Camomons typing while switching within a turn, so no type is displayed when it switches in and subsequently Grass/Dark appears at the end of the turn. However, the Camonons on main wants to show you the type of Pokémon that switch in, however unfortunately this code fails to take Illusion into account, and as such it shows you Zoroark's Ghost/Fire type instead. Oops.
 

Euphonos

Resident Camomons Meteorologist, Smogon University
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Whoops, I totally meant to answer this before. Sorry about that.

What's supposed to happen is that Zoroark disguises as Centiskorch with a Grass/Dark typing. Now the Camomons on ROM has slightly different code so you don't get to see the Camomons typing while switching within a turn, so no type is displayed when it switches in and subsequently Grass/Dark appears at the end of the turn. However, the Camonons on main wants to show you the type of Pokémon that switch in, however unfortunately this code fails to take Illusion into account, and as such it shows you Zoroark's Ghost/Fire type instead. Oops.
So this means it should always be Scenario 1 regardless of the number of times Zoroark switches in?

Has the mechanic been fixed already?
 
I'd like to give a thumbs up to this thing:

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail
- Dragon Tail
- Curse

No weaknesses, takes Special hits and phases out setup mons. You can grab a Curse on a predicted switch, and take and dish out some decent Physical hits.

252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk (Dark/Fighting) Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 24+ Def Goodra: 186-220 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

24 Def Impish because I didn't like that it was below 300 after 1 Curse <_< . Lack of recovery hurts, although you could run Life Dew instead of Aqua Tail if you feel like an absolute Mad Lad.
 

Euphonos

Resident Camomons Meteorologist, Smogon University
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here bringing you another weather report post that comes in four parts.


I. SCATMAN'S WORLD

In case you missed it: the very first Camomons RMT article entitled "Scatman's World" is now live in the Team Showcase (Rate My Team) forum! However, for those who wish to see its Crown Tundra adaptation, this updated paste should work. While the team composition in itself is identical to the ones in the Rate My Team thread, the changes in the team include Mew's type combination (from Electric/Flying to Poison/Fairy to deal with non-Psychic Fangs Lycanroc-Dusk and Urshifu a lot better), Volcarona's type combination (from Fire/Psychic to Fire/Flying), and Rillaboom's item of choice (from Life Orb to Lum Berry to reliably deal with most Status-inflicting Pokemon, especially stray Will-O-Wisps). I hope this team would kindle the flames of aspiring novices and grizzled veterans into getting their hands dirty in the Camomons metagame!


II. METAGAME OBSERVATIONS
From the time Camomons became Other Metagame of the Month last October, I have seven teams for the ladder, with my intent of exploring as many newly-released, returning, and unbanned Pokemon as possible. From those seven, three of those were newly crafted, three others were adaptations from past builds (Scatman's World is one of them), and one supplied by someone else (shoutouts to DraconicLepus and SBPC). I will be sharing my thoughts on some of those notable Pokemon I have tried out, and it may not be in particular order of its appearance in my seven teams at hand.
Genesect is one of those Pokemon that were brought up in the first wave of quickbans alongside the banned Dragonite and Kartana, and the questionable Kyurem and Zygarde - in which I will be mentioning later on. By the surprise of many, Genesect was spared from the ban hammer, and on my end, it is because I myself am not exactly convinced about Genesect's capabilities that really pushes it over the edge. Spamming Choice Band-boosted U-turns may be extremely useful for momentum + chip damage due to Download sometimes boosting its Attack, or Extreme Speed to pick off numerous weakened attackers, but there are quite a handful of Pokemon who can handle those attacks very well, most especially bulky Pokemon donning the Ghost typing, like Water/Ghost Rhyperior. While mixed/special sets are definitely something to watch out for, I'm sort of dissatisfied with the damage output brought by mixed sets especially with Download boosting the wrong stat when it needs the most, it's somehow the predictability of the combinations in the Special set (if it has Ice Beam and Thunderbolt) except with any of these types: Normal (Techno Blast), Fire (Flamethrower), or Steel (Flash Cannon). Maybe it's because I've geared my teams towards dealing with Genesect made me think it would be a welcome addition to the Camomons metagame, although if someone really convinces me that Genesect is busted. My view on Genesect would be indifferent as to whether or not it gets the ban hammer in the next wave of quickbans because I do acknowledge Genesect's movepool enough to be unpredictable and hard to prepare for.
I'm not sure if it's me, but I find Kyurem more annoying than the banned Dragonite (although I do acknowledge Dragonite being bulky and being extremely difficult to take down in one hit thanks to Multiscale) because Kyurem's capabilities - mostly as a Substitute + Pressure + Dragon Dancer - are still intact and are still working wonders. I do believe that Kyurem is the premier stallbreaker with that said Substitute + Dragon Dance set, coupled with Pressure which helps in depleting opponents' PPs of certain moves quicker, and that alone would warrant a great deal of preparation with this Pokemon. However, I do realize that Kyurem will have some competition, and might struggle with the likes of most Pokemon donning the Electric typing, bulky enough to take Iron Heads well (most especially Electric/Water and Electric/Fire variants). So, from advocating for a ban on this Pokemon in the first wave, I'm actually on the fence right now due to more potential answers that stop it from setting up too much; as such, I'd say it's still a threat worth looking at.
(On one hand, Kyurem was one of the reasons why I ended up getting the moniker of Camomons Meteorologist - it's because it delivers one of the strongest Weather Balls in the metagame, and can pair extremely well with either Rain or Sun.)
Zygarde is definitely a metagame-shaking Pokemon thanks to Thousand Arrows smacking down most Levitate users and most Pokemon donning the Flying typing. It can either run a Ground/Poison Stall-Breaking Coil set with Thousand Arrows being its sole attack that hits almost literally everything for neutral damage (except for Grass and Bug Pokemon), or can run a Normal/Ground set donning Extreme Speed as its second attack to pick off weakened Pokemon well (and it can run either Dragon Dance or Choice Band variants). Because of Zygarde's Attack stat that isn't exactly as stellar as the others, it looks like Zygarde needs to set up multiple times in order to become one of the most threatening Pokemon around here; therefore it needs quite a bulky Water type to prevent Zygarde from setting up too much through either Coil or Dragon Dance. While there are some counterplays in dealing with Zygarde, I feel Zygarde is more of a threat than Genesect in this instance, so bringing up Zygarde as the suspect Pokemon in the second wave of probable quickbans would be best, and I am actually convinced enough to have it banned.
Pheromosa, despite the lack of Extreme Speed Genesect has, still has some things coming to become one of the unpredictable Pokemon to prepare for in Camomons with its Ice (Triple Axel / Ice Beam), Bug (U-turn / Bug Buzz), and Fighting (Close Combat / Focus Blast) moves, among other attacks in its arsenal coupled with its sky-high attacking stats. For maximum potential, it is best paired with Tapu Lele (or Indeedee to some extent) to become immune to any priority moves aimed at Pheromosa, which looks busted at face value. It has some form of counterplay as well, such as putting a defensive Water/Ghost Pokemon in there, but thanks to Pheromosa's sheer unpredictability with those select attacks and others, I feel like this Pokemon has to be brought up as one of the suspect Pokemon in the second wave of quickbans.
One of the Pokemon being unbanned after the release of Crown Tundra, Dracovish can still terrorize teams with Fishious Rend such that putting either a Water Absorber or a bulky Pokemon resisting Fishious Rend well would be a near-obligatory thing. There may be more options in dealing with Dracovish, such as Intimidate Salamence, but it just doesn't change how terrifying this Pokemon can be. Actually, Dracovish works well alongside Sticky Web such that Fishious Rend will almost always be at 170 Base Power, plus with a Strong Jaw boost kicking in. WIth that, this can also be brought up as another suspect Pokemon due to its one capability that has excelled throughout the Sword/Shield era.


III. TYPE COMBINATION SPOTLIGHT


If you ever wonder why I actually included a sprite of Toxicroak here, it is because Toxicroak's signature Poison/Fighting type combination is one of the hidden gems in the Camomons metagame worth giving a spotlight.
These Pokemon are capable of running a Poison/Fighting type combination, especially through Toxic and Body Press, and both of them possess quite a high Defense stat and can even boost that stat through various means (Acid Armor / Iron Defense, Diamond Storm in Diancie's case, Stamina in Mudsdale's case) to take advantage of Body Press even more. Another reason why Poison/Fighting is one of the sought-after type combinations for a defensive core is because it is capable of taking attacks from the likes of Fighting/Dark Lycanroc-Dusk (without Psychic Fangs) and Fighting/Dark Urshifu, among all other looming threats. You could give any of those Pokemon a try, pair it with a Dark-type to deal with Psychic attacks, and it will never disappoint you.


IV. UPCOMING CAMOMONS PROJECTS

I'm currently proposing a project (especially I'm looking for someone interested to co-host with me in this endeavor) that will make some progress with the activity of the Camomons ladder, especially with Camomons ladder now being promoted as a permanent fixture. And then, after World Cup of Other Metagames, in which Camomons will be inserted as one of the metagames for the team tournament, I will be hosting more projects to make this metagame flourish even more. I am grateful that Camomons is now a permanent fixture in the Other Metagames ladder, so I'm grateful for everyone who has supported for this cause.
 

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
I wanna start out by thanking everyone for supporting Camomons over the past few years and allowing us to grow into the metagame we are now, we really couldn't have gotten to permanent ladder status without you guys!
Quickban Update #2: Genesect and Zygarde
:ss/genesect::ss/zygarde:
Following our previous slate, Genesect and Zygarde both continued to wreak havoc on the metagame, largely due to their merits as Extreme Speed users. Genesect's immediate power boost from Download made it far too difficult to switch into physically, and when paired with STAB Techno Blast as a coverage option, it's checks were close to none. This doesn't even go into its mixed and special sets which were threatening in their own right, though not outright broken. Zygarde on the other hand has shown that it is too overwhelming due to its strong STABs with Extreme Speed and Thousand Arrows on top of multiple setup and support options, as well as enough bulk to live even super effective hits. Zygarde is something I personally had thought would stay in the tier, but it was clear after the Dragonite and Kartana bans that it was too overwhelming and restrictive on teambuilding.
Votes:
a loserAndyboyChazmEuphonosin the hillsRESULT:
GenesectBANBANBANDNBBANBAN (4-1)
ZygardeBANABSBANBANBANBAN (4-0-1)

What's Next?
We decided at this time to only vote on the two above because of the effect that the overabundance of Extreme Speed has had on the metagame. With this update, we expect to have a better grasp on some the metagame's offensive powerhouses like Pheromosa, Naganadel, and others. At this time, we're open to discussion on these threats. Do you think they will be manageable without the broken Extreme Speed users looming over the tier, or will they prove to be too much? Share your thoughts on the thread!
Tagging The Immortal and Kris to implement.
 

SBPC

Subscribe to 5hak_ on twitch
Scenario 1: (cf. Turn 21 - 22 of this replay)
Scenario 2: (cf. Turn 14 - 15 of this replay)
Scenario 3: (cf. Turn 8 - 9 of this replay)

urkerab, thank you for addressing to Mitchellenwebb's inquiries regarding in-battle forme changes; what about the Illusion mechanics as shown above? I'm not sure if you're the point person as well in this affair, but is this really intentional, or will this mechanic be worth fixing at some point?
this isn't a glitch, this is a game mechanic now lol

Scenarios 1 and 3 can be forced by player intentionality by what position you lead Zoroark in.

Scenario 1, or what will be referred to as Proper Reveal, is always correct regardless of what pokemon is in when Zoroark is in the lead position.

Scenario 3, or what I'll call Incorrect Reveal, is forced when Zoroark switches in, and was not the lead position pokemon.

Scenario 2 is kinda random and i couldnt get it to show in any tests. Here's some replays with the scenarios being forced.

Proper Reveal: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1217593167-1f4dlslgbbmvocqlf3slyg8lrc34taepw

Incorrect Reveal: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1217590819-zseiyf8hypy8do46st11feddq4hbn25pw

Here's a quick example chart for if you want to try and weaponize this, because the mindgame forcing potenial this has is incredible.

Proper Reveal:
:Zoroark::Seismitoad::Clefable::Dracozolt::Cinderace::Hariyama:

Zoroark will Appear as Hariyama with the typing of Hariyama.

Improper Reveal:
:Tornadus::Zoroark::Dracovish::Garbodor::Cinderace::Clefable:

When switched in, Zoroark will appear as Clefable, but with Zoroark's typing shown.
(note: sometimes the game corrects itself mid run, so it's good to run pokemon of the same type with this setup unless you plan to attempt a fake out)

When the pokemon indicated in your 6 slot dies, the 5 slot will become the next Zoroark illusion. Both setups will always result in Proper Reveal, so saving your fake type is important if you plan to utilize it via Improper Revealing.

Euphonos thanks for testing and weaponizing coding bugs with me, yall have fun with this madness now
 

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Quickban Update #3: Kyurem
:ss/kyurem:
Kyurem has been banned from Camomons! As with its previous ban, its ability to set up on just about the entirety of the metagame and stall out defensive answer's PP by virtue of high bulk and Pressure has once again proven to be too much for the metagame. Even 4x resists where both moves are super effective is not enough to stop this monster from plowing through, and thus Kyurem has been banned.

a loserAndyboyChazmEuphonosin the hillsRESULT:
Kyurem​
(Absent)​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN (4-0)​
Tagging Kris and The Immortal to implement

On another note, our Viability Rankings are almost complete! The ban of Kyurem should not effect the rankings, and we're putting the finishing touches on it. Expect this either today or tomorrow!
 

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
The Camomons VR has been updated!
Camomons Viability Rankings
S Rank

S
:clefable: Clefable [Dark/Poison, Electric/Fairy, Fire/Fairy]
:mew: Mew [Flying/Electric, Flying/Water, Water/Ground, Ground/Flying, Fire/Ground, Steel/Flying, Water/Grass, etc.]
:latias: Latias [Water/Poison, Fire/Poison, Electric/Poison, Water/Ghost, Fire/Electric, Water/Dragon, Electric/Water, Water/Grass]

S-
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian [Bug/Fighting, Bug/Ground, Bug/Steel, Normal/Dark, Dark/Ground]
:latios: Latios [Dragon/Fire, Dragon/Electric, Dragon/Ghost, Dragon/Water, Electric/Ice]
:tornadus-therian: Tornadus-Therian [Fighting/Flying, Dark/Poison, Steel/Bug, Fire/Fighting, Fire/Flying, Fighting/Dark, Bug/Fighting]

A Rank
A+
:dragapult: Dragapult [Fire/Dragon, Water/Dragon, Steel/Dragon, Water/Ghost, Electric/Dragon, Electric/Ghost]
:garchomp: Garchomp [Steel/Ground, Steel/Water, Steel/Dragon, Dragon/Poison, Ground/Rock]
:hydreigon: Hydreigon [Fire/Ground, Water/Dragon, Steel/Ground, Water/Ground, Water/Poison, Dark/Poison]
:naganadel: Naganadel [Dragon/Fire, Dragon/Poison, Poison/Fire]

A
:arcanine: Arcanine [Normal/Fire, Normal/Fairy, Normal/Dark]
:buzzwole: Buzzwole [Steel/Flying, Fighting/Flying, Flying/Ground]
:cresselia: Cresselia [Fairy/Poison, Fairy/Electric, Fairy/Ghost]
:dracovish: Dracovish [Water/Dark, Water/Psychic]
:heracross: Heracross [Normal/Ghost, Normal/Dark, Dark/Fighting]
:landorus: Landorus [Ground/Poison, Ground/Fighting]
:pheromosa: Pheromosa [Ice/Fighting, Dark/Fighting]

A-
:blissey: Blissey [Normal/Psychic, Normal, Grass/Poison, Normal/Ghost]
:entei: Entei [Normal/Fire]
:haxorus: Haxorus [Bug/Ground, Bug/Fighting, Ground/Fighting]
:heatran: Heatran [Fire/Ground, Steel/Ground, Steel/Fire, Steel/Grass]
:magearna: Magearna [Electric/Fairy, Steel/Fairy, Steel/Ghost]
:melmetal: Melmetal [Steel/Ground, Steel/Fighting, Steel/Electric, Fighting/Poison]
:lucario: Lucario [Normal/Fire, Normal/Ground, Normal/Dark, Normal/Ghost]
:lycanroc-dusk: Lycanroc-Dusk [Dark/Steel, Dark/Fairy, Dark/Fighting, Fairy/Fighting]
:salamence: Salamence [Water/Ground, Steel/Flying, Dragon/Ghost]
:slowbro: Slowbro [Ghost/Fighting, Water/Ghost, Water/Fighting]
:toxapex: Toxapex [Dark/Poison, Water/Poison]
:victini: Victini [Fire/Electric]
:volcarona: Volcarona [Fire/Grass, Fire/Psychic]
:zeraora: Zeraora [Steel/Flying, Electric/Flying, Electric/Fighting, Fairy/Fighting]

B Rank
B+
:celebi: Celebi [Fairy/Ghost, Ghost/Ground]
:excadrill: Excadrill [Ghost/Normal, Ghost/Ground, Poison/Ground]
:hippowdon: Hippowdon [Rock/Ground, Rock/Poison, Rock/Dark]
:kommo-o: Kommo-o [Normal/Fire, Normal/Dragon, Steel/Ground, Ghost/Fighting]
:reuniclus: Reuniclus [Steel/Ghost, Steel/Fairy]
:scizor: Scizor [Steel/Flying]
:slowking: Slowking [Fire/Ground, Water/Ground]
:slowking-galar: Slowking-Galar [Dark/Poison, Water/Poison]
:spectrier: Spectrier [Dark/Ghost]
:tapu-koko: Tapu Koko [Electric/Grass, Steel/Flying, Electric/Fairy]
:tapu-lele: Tapu Lele [Psychic/Fighting, Psychic/Fairy]
:urshifu: Urshifu-Single-Strike [Dark/Poison]

B
:alakazam: Alakazam [Ghost/Fairy, Ghost/Fighting]
:cinderace: Cinderace [Poison/Fighting]
:coalossal: Coalossal [Steel/Ground, Steel/Grass, Water/Ground]
:drednaw: Drednaw [Water/Ground]
:jirachi: Jirachi [Steel/Fairy]
:kingdra: Kingdra [Water/Flying]
:necrozma: Necrozma [Dragon/Fairy, Fire/Ground]
:pelipper: Pelipper [Water/Bug, Dark/Poison, Water/Flying, Water/Dark]
:porygon-z: Porygon-Z [Electric/Ghost, Electric/Ice]
:regieleki: Regieleki [Electric/Normal]
:rillaboom: Rillaboom [Grass/Ground, Grass/Dark, Grass/Fighting]

B-
:aegislash: Aegislash [Ghost/Fighting]
:blaziken: Blaziken [Fire/Ground, Fire/Fighting]
:chansey: Chansey [Normal, Grass/Poison]
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn [Grass/Steel]
:glastrier: Glastrier [Ground/Steel, Dark/Fighting, Dragon/Steel, etc.]
:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl [Dark/Fairy]
:mandibuzz: Mandibuzz [Dark/Poison]
:noivern: Noivern [Normal/Dark, Normal/Fire, Normal/Ghost]
:rhyperior: Rhyperior [Water/Steel, Water/Ghost]
:tyranitar: Tyranitar [Dragon/Rock]
:volcanion: Volcanion [Fire/Ground, Water/Ground, Poison/Ground]
:zygarde-10: Zygarde-10% [Normal/Ground]

C Rank
C+
:azelf: Azelf [Fire/Fairy, Fire/Electric]
:avalugg: Avalugg [Ghost/Fighting, Ghost/Steel]
:barraskewda: Barraskewda [Water/Fighting]
:blacephalon: Blacephalon [Dark/Ghost]
:cloyster: Cloyster [Normal/Ice]
:conkeldurr: Conkeldurr [Normal/Fighting, Normal/Dark]
:gengar: Gengar [Fairy/Electric, Ghost/Fighting, Poison/Fairy, Electric/Poison]
:hawlucha: Hawlucha [Steel/Flying, Fighting/Flying]
:jellicent: Jellicent [Water/Fairy, Fire/Fairy]
:magnezone: Magnezone [Steel/Electric, Electric/Fighting]
:tangrowth: Tangrowth [Dark/Poison, Ground/Poison]
:terrakion: Terrakion [Bug/Fighting]
:zapdos: Zapdos [Electric/Flying]

C
:araquanid: Araquanid [Water/Poison]
:chandelure: Chandelure [Grass/Ghost]
:corviknight: Corviknight [Steel/Flying]
:diggersby: Diggersby [Ground/Bug, Ground/Dark]
:espeon: Espeon [Water/Fairy, Fire/Fairy]
:hatterene: Hatterene [Fairy/Grass, Grass/Fire]
:keldeo: Keldeo [Water/Fighting, Flying/Fighting]
:nidoking: Nidoking [Fire/Ground]
:metagross: Metagross [Normal/Steel]
:torkoal: Torkoal [Fire/Fighting]
:toxtricity: Toxtricity [Normal/Electric]
:urshifu: Urshifu-Rapid-Strike [Water/Electric, Water/Psychic]
:venusaur: Venusaur [Poison/Ground]
:zapdos-galar: Zapdos-Galar [Dark/Fighting]
Next, we plan to start working on a set compendium with sample sets, as well as looking to update our sample teams so stay tuned!
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributor
Camomons Speed Tiers
Tier 0: Fastest to 500

Speed​
Sprite​
Pokemon​
Base​
Nature​
IVs​
EVs​
Boosts​
882​
Pheromosa​
151​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
822​
Regieleki​
200​
Positive​
31​
252​
+1​
802​
Pheromosa​
151​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
766​
Dragapult​
142​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
755​
Excadrill​
88​
Positive​
31​
252​
+3​
753​
Magearna​
65​
Positive​
31​
252​
+4​
748​
Regieleki​
200​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+1​
742​
Barraskewda​
136​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
710​
Blaziken​
80​
Positive​
31​
252​
+3​
687​
Magearna​
65​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+4​
670​
Hawlucha​
118​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
661​
Pheromosa​
151​
Positive​
31​
252​
+1​
656​
Salamence​
100​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
656​
Volcarona​
100​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
640​
Blaziken​
80​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+3​
618​
Landorus-Therian​
91​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
612​
Porygon-Z​
90​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
604​
Excadrill​
88​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
601​
Pheromosa​
151​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+1​
598​
Salamence​
100​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
598​
Volcarona​
100​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
574​
Dragapult​
142​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+1​
568​
Blaziken​
80​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
562​
Landorus-Therian​
91​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
562​
Naganadel​
121​
Positive​
31​
252​
+1​
562​
Tornadus-Therian​
121​
Positive​
31​
252​
+1​
548​
Regieleki​
200​
Positive​
31​
252​
0​
538​
Kingdra​
85​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
525​
Latias​
110​
Positive​
31​
252​
+1​
525​
Latios​
110​
Positive​
31​
252​
+1​
518​
Blaziken​
80​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
518​
Venusaur​
80​
Neutral​
31​
252​
+2​
516​
Blacephalon​
107​
Positive​
31​
252​
+1​
502​
Magearna​
65​
Positive​
31​
252​
+2​
Just to update you all, we have Speed Tiers now! You can find them right below the Viability Rankings.
Hopefully this will be a useful recourse for everyone. Everything in the VR should have a place in these speed tiers but if anything happens to be missing, let me or one of the other council members know.
 

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
:ss/landorus: :ss/spectrier: :ss/dracovish:
Three Horsemen of the Apocalypse
As we head towards the end of the World Cup of Other Metas, the Camomons council has three threats in our line of sight: Landorus-I, Spectrier, and Dracovish. We will not be voting on these for a few weeks, after WCoOM concludes, so until then we are opening these up for input from the community.

Landorus-I: Landorus-I is a strong special attacker that is able to threaten nearly the entire metagame with its Sheer Force boosted attacks. It has a wide array of coverage to compliment its Ground-type STAB, such as Focus Blast, Psychic, Sludge Wave, Rock Slide, and we have even seen Sand Force boosted Weather Ball in WCoOM. On paper, Landorus-I's checks are miniscule, with Steel / Flying Pokemon generally being considered the best checks, though even these can fall to some of Landorus' coverage. In practice, Landorus-I has not particularly proven to be as broken, often being overwhelmed by teams' multiple faster options like Latias and Tornadus-T, though it's clear that Landorus-I puts a lot of pressure on the teambuilder.

Spectrier: While Spectrier only has a few viable coverage options, it's proven that with just a few special attacks it can be a devastating attacker. Its Ghost / Dark Nasty Plot sets only have a handful of switchins, namely Dark-types like Toxapex, Tornadus-T, and Clefable, though these two can fall to WispTaunt sets. Additionally, a Ghost-typing and 130 base speed makes Spectrier increasingly difficult to check offensively, as there's not a single Pokemon that can switch in safely and outspeed in the entirety of the metagame, and Extreme Speed does not effect it. Grim Neigh allows it to snowball easily as well, meaning you typically cannot sack a Pokemon safely when facing Spectrier. While it's an offensive powerhouse, it does lack immediate power due to most sets running Leftovers, and is relatively frail, which opponents may be able to capitalize on to prevent it from setting up or sweeping.

Dracovish: Dracovish nearly remained unbanned in its previous suspect this generation, and was the only Pokemon the council unbanned at the start of DLC2 that we didn't universally agree on unbanning. It's no question that Dracovish is a ridiculously strong attacker with its Strong Jaw boosted Fishious Rend, it was clear before DLC2 and it has become clear yet again. We originally freed Dracovish under the pretenses that the introduction of strong physical walls like Salamence, as well as faster resists like Laitas could possibly create a more manageable environment for Dracovish, but it's questionable whether these predictions have played out as planned. While Dracovish does have more counterplay for Choice Band Strong Jaw sets, both Choice Scarf and Sand Rush sets are able to blast through offensive counterplay with ease. While checks to Dracovish are slightly better than when it was previously banned, is that enough to save Dracovish from being banned yet again?

As previously mentioned, we will not be voting on these for a few weeks, so please give your input on these three Pokemon, as well as any other issues you might have picked up on and feel strongly about!
 

anaconja

DUHH PUPLE FOG!!!DUHH BURPLE FROG???PURPLE FROG!!!
is a Tiering Contributor
thanks to WCOOM and Euphonos's EPL i've gotten to build a lot of camo teams and it's pretty cool (more so than gen 8 bh). here's all the teams i've built during this time.

week 1 of wcoom and epl: OOPS! ALL PIVOT

Greedy (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge

Ghost City Tokyo (Pheromosa) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Close Combat
- Drill Run
- U-turn

RacingInTheNight (Regieleki) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 144 Atk / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

Cynical Night Plan (Tornadus-Therian) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Tracing that Dream (Mew) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Teleport

Violeta (Hydreigon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Roost

replays:
EPL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1228762420
WCOOM: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1238424669
was inspired by earl's fastspam in ou so i wanted to recreate it here, you just pivot a bunch and capitalize on momentum with hydreigon

week 2: triple regen bulky balance

"radical moderate" (Buzzwole) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Lunge
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Toxic

Magenta Gravel (Slowking) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Teleport

what the fuck? (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

Cuckles (Tornadus-Therian) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Hurricane
- Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot

Byeah (Mew) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hurricane
- Soft-Boiled
- Nasty Plot

Demon X (Hydreigon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Flash Cannon
- Roost
- Defog

replays:
EPL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1232868623
WCOOM: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1241328247
while playing with OOPS! ALL PIVOT on ladder i got impossibly walled by the combo of buzzwole/slowking/pex so i just stole it lmao
this team can get haxed 5 times and still win because regen spam is broke (as you will see further down)

week 3 of epl: stole a chazm team except he trolled me which made this happen

week 3 of wcoom: st*ll

基努·里維斯 (Buzzwole) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

剛剛結束我的痛苦 (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze
- Recover

笨蛋我他媽的巴林 (Blissey) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

我做愛時 (Tangrowth) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed

從字面上看整個元遊戲 (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog

從字面上看整個元遊戲 2 (Latias) (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Roost

replays:
wcoom: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1246722099
weak to victini; fixed in a revamp

week 4 of epl: future nostalgia

importable
replays:
EPL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1242499660
Zovrah made me listen to the album and i found it quite good
the team's quite boring but water/fairy mew is a cool defensive typing cause pheromosa does nothing to it (poison jab is an unset)

week 5 of epl: sun


Sunny Wave (Torkoal) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lava Plume
- Stone Edge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rapid Spin

HYPE MODE (Venusaur) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- Growth

Caffeine (Entei) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Howl

Wanderer (Necrozma) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

zzz (Latias) (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Healing Wish
- Roost

Telecaster Boy (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

replays:
EPL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1247387228
sun team with some weird ass mons like steel/psychic necro to beat poison latias and stuff, probably not optimized. still fun to play with though

semifinals of epl: OOPS! ALL REGEN 2 (CAMOMOMS BOOGALOO)

shitpost status (Slowbro) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Teleport

shitpost status (Slowking) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Dragon Tail
- Flamethrower

shitpost status (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

shitpost status (Tangrowth) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off

shitpost status (Tornadus-Therian) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn

shitpost status (Reuniclus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Recover

replays:
EPL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1250962270
this team cannot lose

finals of epl: some balance shit

van (Victini) @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Energy Ball
- U-turn

rev (Hydreigon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Nasty Plot

fractal (Zeraora)
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat
- Bulk Up

flt (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

acc (Salamence) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Claw
- Roost
- Defog

vignette (Tornadus-Therian) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Heat Wave
- U-turn

replays:
EPL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1253707835
not much to say about this idt

anyway epl and wcoom were fun, thanks Euphonos Chazm In The Hills a loser Karl Dude Guy for helping me test teams. happy new year guys

edit: bonus round:
:slowbro::stakataka::glastrier::marowak-alola::magearna::tapu-bulu:
:landorus::latios::toxapex::hippowdon::mew::cinderace:
:landorus-therian::pelipper::kingdra::drednaw::mew::jirachi:
:landorus-therian::thundurus-therian::tornadus-therian::grimmsnarl::magearna::volcarona:
:vikavolt::hitmontop::salamence::scizor::mew::landorus-therian:
:garchomp::zeraora::clefable::chandelure::mew::cinderace:

edit 2: finals went to a tiebreaker so here's my last team

BIRD CHUNGUS (Zapdos-Galar) @ Metal Coat
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Throat Chop
- Steel Wing
- Thunderous Kick
- U-turn

BIG CHUNGUS (Diggersby) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Spikes

BLUE CHUNGUS (Salamence) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Claw
- Roost
- Wish

BASED CHUNGUS (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock

BOY CHUNGUS (Tornadus-Therian) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn

BURN CHUNGUS (Entei) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Crunch
- Howl

man i hate how diggersby looks so good and yet he gets outsped by like everything
replays:
EPL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1257957253
 
Last edited:
I played a decent amount of camo pre-omwc, but this last tiebreaker week was when i really got into it and did a good amount of building and testing. And there's some things that stood out to me as (potentially) problematic.

1) The button clickers
:dracovish: Water/Dark and Water/Psychic
I don't think Vish needs explaining, everyone knows what it does. The main thing that I found unhealthy about it is how hard it forces x4 water resists or water immunities and as a consequence of frequently being Dark secondary, how it strongly disincentivizes running Water/Ghost mons, as putting that on your team means you gotta dedicate a whole other slot to checking Vish. Back to the topic of x4 resists and immunities, the premise of the Camo metagame really rewards constructing good overal type coverage by adjusting your team's typings. You can be satisfied vs most threats in the meta by just running good type coverage that lets you blanket/soft check a bunch of different mons - Water/Fight Slowbro comes to mind as an example. Vish just cuts straight through teams like these because you just cant blanket check it at all. By being forced into running Water/Grass or Water/Dragon, it warps the structure of the supporting defensive core as well, usually leaving you open to certain other threats that you'd have a better chance of beating otherwise.
:landorus:Ground/Psychic, Ground/Poison, Ground/Fighting
Landorus is similar, except that instead of spamming broken STAB it gets insane coverage options. There is no one mon that checks every Lando set, except maybe Blissey - everything else Lando can prep for. Gravity for ground immunes that resist second stab, Focus Blast for levitating Steels, Psychic for Poison Levitaters etc. I'm not fully convinced that this thing is actually broken, maybe it's just borderline, and i def think Vish is the more problematic element.
:pheromosa:Fighting/Ice, Fighting/Dark, Fighting/Poison, Ice/Ground
Phero is the fastest mon in the metagame, offensively checked only by Extremespeeders and Rillaboom and it's not easy enough to switch to for such a powerful offensive threat. I think part of its offensive prowess stems from the presence of Rillaboom and Dracovish in the metagame. Fighting/Flying mons are really popular as ways of countering Rillaboom, but they fall short of answering Fighting/Ice Pheromosa (which i think is the most consistent set atm), especially if it runs Pads to ignore helmet or techs Ice Beam to hit pdef walls harder. Water/Ghost would be a very good type combo for checking Ice/Fighting Mosa reliably, but the presence of Vish puts hard teambuilding constraints on you if you decide to run those. Poison + Water or Fire Latias is probably the most consistent switchin.

2) The bulky wincons
Ok I lied, Vish is not the most annoying presence in the meta. These things are. I'm talking of course about bulky setup mons that usually run sets that look like this:
- STAB 1
- STAB 2/Toxic
- Boosting move
- Recovery
The main thing I noticed this week while building is how easy it is to just randomly lose to an opposing bulky wincon, with absolutely no counterplay. The only teams that are really safe vs most of these are teams running Dark/Poison Haze Pex and to a lesser extent Dark/Poison Unaware Clef, but I haven't seen many of them (probably for good reason), not to mention that all Pex can do is just sit on them spamming haze as 90% of these are immune to status and once your Pex/Clef is Knocked and possibly burnt, its going to lose the 1v1 since its forced to burn recovery PP. Camomons being a metagame where you can adjust your typing to your liking means there's a large number of these sets that you actually have to account for in builder, which is not an easy task.

:cresselia: Fairy/Poison
I know Elec/Fairy and Elec/Poison sets can be a thing too but i literally never saw them this gen so i'm just gonna ignore them. This is probs one of the more iconic ones and also easiest to prep for - just bring a steel type that can switch into it repeatedly and either hit it on the physical side (ignoring CM boosts) or set up alongside it.

:hydreigon: Steel/Water, Steel/Dragon, Steel/Ground, Steel/Fire, Fire/Ground, Water/Ground, Dragon/Ground...
Speaking of steels that can set up alongside Cress, this is one of them as long as you aren't running Steel/Dragon. Hydreigon's biggest strength (the steel typing) is also a big weakness, as it can be answered quite effectively by the likes of Blissey and AV Torn pivoting in and out into Fighting type (or anything that hits SE) revenge killers - something that is also possible because of Hydreigon's awkward speed tier - it's fast enough to outspeed the pivots, but not fast enough to outspeed most of the offensive mons that are popular in Camo.

:latias: Water/Poison, Electric/Poison, Fire/Poison, Dragon/Poison
The more defensively inclined of the two latis and imo also the more difficult to answer long term. Water/Poison Lati checks a bunch of stuff defensively while also doubling as a stong wincon with CM, only being weak to Elec and Psychic means counterplay is limited to pivoting into a faster revenge killer (realistically only Electric Zeraora or some weird Psychic type like Zam/Tornadus) or setting up alongside it with a type advantage and toxic immunity, so Elec/Poison Lati/Cress, Elec/Fairy Clef and Steel/Grass Zarude. Leech Seed toxic immunes also help, but they have to be able to meaningfully chip it with attacks as well.

:clefable: Electric/Fairy, Fire/Fairy and Losr's god clefable set
Speaking of Clef, Magic Guard lets it run non Steel or Poison typings while keeping toxic immunities, greatly increasing its offensive prowess, however its stats are a bit lacking compared to the other mons on this list. Still, that doesnt keep it from easily taking over games vs teams that cant countersetup vs it with the likes of Ground/Steel or Ground/Fire Hydreigon or Grass/Steel Zarude or again slow pivot into revengekillers - usually ground types since at least it doesnt pack levitate. Also keep in mind that Clef's low speed means you can only really teleport to slowpivot vs it. And AV Torn while powerful, doesn't actually answer it that well if it comes in on a CM as uninvested sludge bomb does less than half to an HP invested Clef.

:latios: Dragon/Electric, Water/Electric, Ice/Electric
These are at least vulnerable to Toxic so can't just mindlessly boost, but Latios hits the hardest out of all the mons on this list while only being weak to Dragon and Fairy if running Dragon Electric. Dragon type Latios is thankfully blanked by Fairy type Zeraora, but the others need to again be beaten by a mon that can switch into it and setup alongside it to force it out, or pivot out into a revenge killer.

While I've noted that counterplay exists for all of these, keep in mind that you have to prepare for (pretty much) every one of these sets in order to not lose as soon as one of these gets a free turn to boost up - and this has been extremely hard in my experience. It might just be something I encountered/a consequence of my building style so I'm curious how others have been approaching this issue - imo it's easiest to resign yourself to having good revenge killing potential vs the less sturdy of these (Hydreigon, Latios), while being able to beat the fatter ones with countersetup. I don't think if this even qualifies as a problem, much less if it needs a solution so these are just my thoughts I guess. If anything, I'd say Vish is the thing that most urgently needs a ban, the other stuff can wait.

Bonus teams from this week (Both built with no Vish gentlemans agreement in mind), I ended up using a team built by Siamato however, so I'll leave it to him to share it if he wants to.

:pheromosa: :clefable: :tornadus-therian: :hydreigon: :slowking-galar: :mew: Mosa + Clef BO
:zeraora: :arcanine: :blissey: :hydreigon: :slowbro: :tornadus-therian: Zera + Arcanine BO
 
Last edited:

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Quickban Update #4: Dracovish & Landorus-I
:ss/dracovish: :ss/landorus:
Following our previous announcement, we received great feedback from the community that gave us a lot of insight on what people think of the current metagame. As such, we added Pheromosa to the voting along with the original voting slate because of said feedback. The votes were as follows:

a loser
Andyboy​
Chazm​
Euphonos​
in the hills​
RESULT​
Dracovish
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN (5-0)
Landorus-I
SUSPECT​
BAN​
BAN​
SUSPECT​
BAN​
BAN (3-0-2)
Pheromosa
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB (0-5)
Spectrier
DNB​
DNB​
ABS​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB (0-4-1)
As such, Dracovish and Landorus-I are now banned from Camomons! Thank you to everyone for your feedback and I hope everyone is enjoying Camomons in WCoOM as well as its ladder!

Tagging The Immortal and Kris to implement.
 

In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Another small announcement:
Andyboy will be taking a leave of absence for a bit, thank you for all of your hard work and dedication over the past few years with us!

As such, we have a new member of the Camomons council! Everyone give a warm welcome to The Number Man! We're so happy to have you on our team :)

On another note, we are opening up Sample Team submissions again, so if you'd like to submit something, post it here on the thread with a description of how it works in the metagame! That's all for now thank you!
 

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