Sketch could very easily be made an egg move. Those cannot be re-learned once forgotten, by any legal means.
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CAP 13 CAP 2 - Concept Submissions
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
- Status
It's also not ideal for a concept to even IMPLY new abilities being needed, so that's something to keep in mind. I'm not going to say there will never be any more custom abilities/moves, but it is highly unlikely (read: less than 1%) it ever happens again with all the new abilities/moves brought by the 5th generation. There is really no reason for the project as a whole to create abilities/moves/items just for a specific concept, when it is clear that the concept is much too limiting and not very creative. tl;dr - if you think we're going to need a new ability/move/item, your concept is flawed.
edit: RD ninja'd by saying it isn't feasible with our current server, but yeah I don't think they're a good idea at all, and I allowed Paleo Wave before you whippersnappers registered.
On topic:
I'm not a big fan of any concept that's like "this pokemon can do a bunch of different things!" or "this pokemon is designed to be unpredictable!". Most (not all) of the best Pokemon in the metagame are predictable. You know, for example, that Scizor on any given day will be Technician, will have Bullet Punch. If it has U-turn, it is almost 100% choiced. If it has Bug Bite, it is probably a set-up variety. However, just because Scizor is predictable in that regard doesn't mean it isn't effective. A better example would be something like Blissey. Blissey is a blob. It sits there, and it takes special hits, and it usually tries to either heal its team, heal itself, or status you. You know pretty much (aside from stupid stuff like CM Blissey) what it will be doing at any given time. However, that doesn't make it any less hard to beat.
My point with all this is thus: To be successful in OU, it is nice to surprise the opponent once in a while, be it something like Specs Jellicent on a rain-stall team, or SD Scizor on a bulky offensive team. However, there is no need to have "two completely different sets" or "many different roles this pokemon can perform". Inevitably, it will be better at one job than another due to the metagame around it.
Now that I'm done ranting about that, I'd just like to comment on something: a lot of submissions are based around things like typing, stats, and ability. They should be more focused on an actual role in the metagame, not just experimenting with "hey lets see how bad we can nerf this but still make it good". A good concept should leave plenty of room for interpretation, but still give a clear and solid role and direction to the CAP. Some good concepts that do this are: "Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow", "Hyper Offense Specialist", and "A Return to Offensive Spinblocking". These all present a clear role in the metagame that we could explore by choosing the concept (though, yes, there are hail abusers, and yes, there are hyper offense mons).
edit: RD ninja'd by saying it isn't feasible with our current server, but yeah I don't think they're a good idea at all, and I allowed Paleo Wave before you whippersnappers registered.
On topic:
I'm not a big fan of any concept that's like "this pokemon can do a bunch of different things!" or "this pokemon is designed to be unpredictable!". Most (not all) of the best Pokemon in the metagame are predictable. You know, for example, that Scizor on any given day will be Technician, will have Bullet Punch. If it has U-turn, it is almost 100% choiced. If it has Bug Bite, it is probably a set-up variety. However, just because Scizor is predictable in that regard doesn't mean it isn't effective. A better example would be something like Blissey. Blissey is a blob. It sits there, and it takes special hits, and it usually tries to either heal its team, heal itself, or status you. You know pretty much (aside from stupid stuff like CM Blissey) what it will be doing at any given time. However, that doesn't make it any less hard to beat.
My point with all this is thus: To be successful in OU, it is nice to surprise the opponent once in a while, be it something like Specs Jellicent on a rain-stall team, or SD Scizor on a bulky offensive team. However, there is no need to have "two completely different sets" or "many different roles this pokemon can perform". Inevitably, it will be better at one job than another due to the metagame around it.
Now that I'm done ranting about that, I'd just like to comment on something: a lot of submissions are based around things like typing, stats, and ability. They should be more focused on an actual role in the metagame, not just experimenting with "hey lets see how bad we can nerf this but still make it good". A good concept should leave plenty of room for interpretation, but still give a clear and solid role and direction to the CAP. Some good concepts that do this are: "Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow", "Hyper Offense Specialist", and "A Return to Offensive Spinblocking". These all present a clear role in the metagame that we could explore by choosing the concept (though, yes, there are hail abusers, and yes, there are hyper offense mons).
Name: RESTRICTOR
General Description: A pokemon that directly or indirectly limits the opponent's move options, through a combination of abilities, typings, items, etc.
Justification: The outcome of a Pokemon match depends on the skills (sometimes luck) of the trainers. Usually the one that could better predict the opponent's moves is the victor. A single mispredict can cost anybody a match. Great skills in prediction comes with experience. However, one way of increasing your chances of predicting correctly would be by limiting the options the opponent could do. If you can control the situation in such a way that he is restricted to a single option, what's there to predict? That's what this concept is all about.
Questions To Be Answered:
Explanation:
To better understand what I'm trying to say, take a look at this Move Restriction Guide onsite. The article "takes a close look at the workings of moves, items, and abilities that restrict the move options available to Pokémon". There's a multitude of ways that this can be accomplished, so we don't even have to be restricted by this article. It is possible for the Concept to go for an offensive route, using its threat as a restricting factor as well. However, a more defensive approach may be better suited for it. For example, when pulled off right, a Pokemon with enough defenses to take a hit with the moveset of Spider Web / Substitute / Disable / Encore with Prankster completely restricts the opponent's option to Struggle!
General Description: A pokemon that directly or indirectly limits the opponent's move options, through a combination of abilities, typings, items, etc.
Justification: The outcome of a Pokemon match depends on the skills (sometimes luck) of the trainers. Usually the one that could better predict the opponent's moves is the victor. A single mispredict can cost anybody a match. Great skills in prediction comes with experience. However, one way of increasing your chances of predicting correctly would be by limiting the options the opponent could do. If you can control the situation in such a way that he is restricted to a single option, what's there to predict? That's what this concept is all about.
Questions To Be Answered:
- How much of the metagame is susceptible to move restriction?
- To what degree can a certain Pokemon affect the options of an opponent?
- Would the opponent choose the less ideal option, knowing that the option he has been restricted to is what you chose?
- How do other Pokemon adjust their movesets and strategies with the Restrictor Pokemon around?
Explanation:
To better understand what I'm trying to say, take a look at this Move Restriction Guide onsite. The article "takes a close look at the workings of moves, items, and abilities that restrict the move options available to Pokémon". There's a multitude of ways that this can be accomplished, so we don't even have to be restricted by this article. It is possible for the Concept to go for an offensive route, using its threat as a restricting factor as well. However, a more defensive approach may be better suited for it. For example, when pulled off right, a Pokemon with enough defenses to take a hit with the moveset of Spider Web / Substitute / Disable / Encore with Prankster completely restricts the opponent's option to Struggle!
Core Explorer
Description
The purpose of this concept is to explore how defensive cores work, and how they change as the metagame develops around them.
Questions To Be Answered
What makes an effective defensive core? Obviously, threat coverage is important, but hopefully this concept would address other questions regarding "flow", defensive momentum, and other hitherto largely unaddressed topics. For instance, the idea of using lures to open sweeps for offensive pokemon is well known, but focusing on hindering various threats so that a defensive pokemon can perform its job more efficiently (and without the constant loss of momentum which often results from using very defensively oriented pokemon) would be worth looking into.
Justification
Defensive cores are an incredibly important part of the game, but there is very little focus on, or undersanding of, how these groups of defensive pokemon function and develop.
This project would also allow substantial opportunity for discussion of the key elements of the current OU metagame, so that an effective core can be created. This would be a project not just for the period in which it is playtested, but something which would be interesting to revisit with future metagame shifts to examine how the initially conceived core endures or adapts.
Explanation
The idea of a defensive core is intrinsic to the way players handle the various threats in the metagame. We have already seen the rise of various popular cores in BW OU, such as Skarm/Heatran/Jellicent, which originated as a way to deal with the powerful weather offensives which dominated the game at the time. However, with the loss of Excadrill and Thundurus from the metagame, arguably the two weather abusers most difficult to deal with, the use of specific weather counters such as Gastrodon is quickly evaporating. What this leaves us with is, currently, a metagame which lacks a core specifically equipped to deal with it (e.g. we see cores such as Politoed / Ferrothorn / Dragonite, but this example is only helpful as a component of rain stall specifically).
To achieve the concept, I envisage that the CAP process would start by analysing the present state of the metagame, and then designing the CAP as part of a core alongside 1-2 other pokemon. Ideally this would cover most relevant threats within the metagame, as well as pursuing its own offensive aims (in the same way that FerroCent, for instance, functions primarily to attain and maintain =P entry hazards).
Description
The purpose of this concept is to explore how defensive cores work, and how they change as the metagame develops around them.
Questions To Be Answered
What makes an effective defensive core? Obviously, threat coverage is important, but hopefully this concept would address other questions regarding "flow", defensive momentum, and other hitherto largely unaddressed topics. For instance, the idea of using lures to open sweeps for offensive pokemon is well known, but focusing on hindering various threats so that a defensive pokemon can perform its job more efficiently (and without the constant loss of momentum which often results from using very defensively oriented pokemon) would be worth looking into.
Justification
Defensive cores are an incredibly important part of the game, but there is very little focus on, or undersanding of, how these groups of defensive pokemon function and develop.
This project would also allow substantial opportunity for discussion of the key elements of the current OU metagame, so that an effective core can be created. This would be a project not just for the period in which it is playtested, but something which would be interesting to revisit with future metagame shifts to examine how the initially conceived core endures or adapts.
Explanation
The idea of a defensive core is intrinsic to the way players handle the various threats in the metagame. We have already seen the rise of various popular cores in BW OU, such as Skarm/Heatran/Jellicent, which originated as a way to deal with the powerful weather offensives which dominated the game at the time. However, with the loss of Excadrill and Thundurus from the metagame, arguably the two weather abusers most difficult to deal with, the use of specific weather counters such as Gastrodon is quickly evaporating. What this leaves us with is, currently, a metagame which lacks a core specifically equipped to deal with it (e.g. we see cores such as Politoed / Ferrothorn / Dragonite, but this example is only helpful as a component of rain stall specifically).
To achieve the concept, I envisage that the CAP process would start by analysing the present state of the metagame, and then designing the CAP as part of a core alongside 1-2 other pokemon. Ideally this would cover most relevant threats within the metagame, as well as pursuing its own offensive aims (in the same way that FerroCent, for instance, functions primarily to attain and maintain =P entry hazards).
When do we plan on having CAP2 be finished by? Depending on the timeframe, it could be feasible for Pokemon Showdown to be stable enough for the CAP project by the time CAP2 is done.
Does PO actually support the implementation of Sketch in this way? I'd guess most sims implement Sketch as "every move is in this pokemon's learnset".
edit: I just checked, PO implements Smeargle by adding every move to Smeargle's level-up learnset.
PS supports complex bans along the lines of "at most one move outside of this pokemon's learnset", but I don't know about PO.
My point exactly! In DPPt and BW every Pokemon invariably ends up in one role because it is the most effective role for that mon in that metagame, and you've experienced this first hand in CAP a few times. But it wasn't always this way; many Pokemon used to have a primary role but would often pack nasty surprises that didn't necessarily fit with this role but were equally effective. This doesn’t happen anymore because BW has largely left these Pokemon behind and gotten to level where every role has become so refined and perfected that there is one or two most effective mons and sets to use, and if you want to win you will do that. Not to say creativity doesn't exist, just not to the extent it used to.
I think it would be worth asking 'why cant a Pokemon be effective in its primary goal and still be able to throw in a few divergent options?' I personally suspect its because the power level has increased that much from when these strategies ran rampant that a Pokemon who could do several things equally effectively now would be broken, but without trying, who's to say? Not everyone will agree that this is worth consideration but I believe it would be an informative path for CAP2.
On another note, I LOVE Sketch Artist, and think it would be an incredible concept. However I’d hope that it would follow structured path, i.e. a mon designed to accomplish a specific goal (sweper, tank, lead...) but missing a few key moves (in true Game Freak style) leaving the user to determine which move what to sketch to meet the goal. You could see some interesting playtesting depending on what we each feel gets the job done. If it was done as a mon that could do anything depending on what you sketch (wall if I choose recover or sweeper if I choose sword dance), it would invariably fall into the most effective role as tennisace pointed out, this would be the only detractor for me.
Not ideal or elegant but it could be done by putting every single move in CAP2's egg moves as an illegal combination with all others (except its actual egg moves)... or as an event move/DW move but I'm not sure how/if PO supports these.
Sketch Artist intrigues me too, but it's not only the concept that makes me interested. If it were to be the used CaP, it'd be a nice experiment in creating something with so much potential to be considered "broken" and would make us focus on the Pokémon to ensure this happens as little as possible. Movesets would have much more planning with them in order to avoid something we don't want because of this potential wild card of a move. As I've said it'd be interesting to say the least.
Name: Sun Staller
General Description: A Pokemon that takes advantage of Sun in a more defensive way.
Justification: When you look at weather, there are two main types of teams: stall and offensive. While most weathers can pull of both types, Sun is a weather that is usually always offensive. This would offer a new take on Sun, using it's more defensive advantages to make a more defensively based Sun team.
Questions To Be Answered:
Explanation: Basically, I think that there are a lot of things that could be done with this concept. There are moves like Synthesis/Morning Sun, abilities like Harvest and even just a Water resistance to play with! These things haven't been explored much and a CAP would be just the thing to explore this different play style!
General Description: A Pokemon that takes advantage of Sun in a more defensive way.
Justification: When you look at weather, there are two main types of teams: stall and offensive. While most weathers can pull of both types, Sun is a weather that is usually always offensive. This would offer a new take on Sun, using it's more defensive advantages to make a more defensively based Sun team.
Questions To Be Answered:
- Can Sun stall be as or more powerful than offensive Sun teams?
- What does Sun stall have over other stall teams?
- Which Pokemon can function well on a Sun stall team?
- Which Pokemon/strategies can easily beat Sun stall?
Explanation: Basically, I think that there are a lot of things that could be done with this concept. There are moves like Synthesis/Morning Sun, abilities like Harvest and even just a Water resistance to play with! These things haven't been explored much and a CAP would be just the thing to explore this different play style!
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't intend to "get a stable lead in the metagame who can tackle hyper offensive threats that can be switched into the lead position at any time while also making defensive teams more viable". I just wanted to explore the possibility of making a feasible lead for defensively-minded teams which wasn't just a weather inducer or (arguably) Ferrothorn. Of course, it would be interesting to observe how could this Pokémon influence the viability of defensive teams (which is why I included such a question in my post), but that's not the focus, just a possible consequence.
I feel that, in my attempt to "modernize" the Weather Slayer idea, I ended up changing it so that it doesn't immediately resemble Weather Slayer anymore. My original idea was something that had the Weather Slayer concept as a very probable implication. Maybe the questions were rather misguided because I didn't want to imply heavily that this CAP would be almost completely indifferent to weather like Reuniclus. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to limit the concept to something like Fire/Flying with Chlorophyll that ends up just being there in the end. Maybe "adaptation" is the best way to describe it.
Would it be better (and allowed) for me to submit the original Weather Slayer idea, perhaps with a rename and some tweaks to distinguish it from the anti-weather submissions? It's actually not all that similar to those submissions, anyway, imo. In spite of its name, Weather Slayer was never intended to be "anti-weather", but just a way to exploit the playing dynamics of setting and using weather.
Concept: Stat Changer
Description: Just what you think, a Pokemon that can literally change it's base stats in battle, suiting your needs. Of course this won't mean it would have the best stats in the game, but it can put it's stats into anything you wan't it to be.
Justification: Have you ever been at that time in your team building process where your stuck? Like when you want a Special Attacker but you also wan't it to be bulky, but you already have a pokemon of the same type. This pokemon fixes that problem in one turn.
Questions To Be Answered:
Explanation: This Pokemon is very hard to explain since it will be so damn versatile, I mean, of course it would have to sacrifice another stat to make one stat better, and that the highest a stat can be raised to isn't something like 130, but you can literally balance out your moves to all your needs that you would like mid-battle!
Description: Just what you think, a Pokemon that can literally change it's base stats in battle, suiting your needs. Of course this won't mean it would have the best stats in the game, but it can put it's stats into anything you wan't it to be.
Justification: Have you ever been at that time in your team building process where your stuck? Like when you want a Special Attacker but you also wan't it to be bulky, but you already have a pokemon of the same type. This pokemon fixes that problem in one turn.
Questions To Be Answered:
- Even without fantastic stats, will this Pokemon be too overpowered?
- Will the fact that it takes a whole turn to change your stats ruin you in battle?
- How will the move that shifts your stats work? Will it be a specific move for a specific type? Or something completely new?
- How will this effect synergy?
Explanation: This Pokemon is very hard to explain since it will be so damn versatile, I mean, of course it would have to sacrifice another stat to make one stat better, and that the highest a stat can be raised to isn't something like 130, but you can literally balance out your moves to all your needs that you would like mid-battle!
Darn, I had this all typed out and the the page freaked out and I lost it all. Well here it is again. I don't really have a concept of my own, and most things I would come up with are more metagame based than on individual Pokemon, so I won't put out my own concept this time. But I would like to share my opinions on a few of the ones so far:
I like this concept. In a game where 3 weathers dominate, it would be fun an interesting to see what we can do to let a 4th weather come in and share the spotlight. Is it possible to do with just a single Pokemon? Maybe. Maybe not. But I certainly think we are up to the challenge. Hail needs more love.
Another cool idea here. Pretty much all of the CAPs so far have been given a role and then been tailor made to fit right into that position in OU. But as we all know, that is not how real Pokemon are. Sometimes, Pokemon who look like they are too crippled to perform, but that is just not the case. I think doing this would give us great insight into how some of the coolest real Pokemon are designed.
While we have seen many iterations of weather slayer ideas, I think this takes a much different approach to it, and as a result would create a much better project. The fact is that weather is a huge part of the metagame, and no one Pokemon has the power to shut it down like other weather slayer concepts would want. This however is not about shutting down weather, and not about abusing it either. It is about thriving in the metagame no matter what the weather is. Making a Pokemon that can use all weather without being a straight up abuser would be a very cool chanllenge to attempt.
I'm gonna say, I'm not as sure about this one. I certainly think this is a cool idea, but in practice, I don't know if it would really work. The ways to beat substitute are well know, and this concept would be more about putting them together and seeing what the effect is than trying to discover a new way to do it. Of course, that is perfectly fine with me. I'm just not sure if it would have much of an effect. Substitute is just such a powerful move that I have a hard time seeing one new Pokemon making it less useful.
Here we go. Easily my favorite concept of the bunch, the coolest thing about this one is that not only do we get to see how a cool new Pokemon affects the metagame, but we also get to analyze how the new Pokemon affects us, the players, and how our own perception of things affects how we play. It is a cool new idea, and certainly a feasible one. This concept has my full support.
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for this one. Giving a Pokemon Sketch is certainly a cool idea, however, that is about all I see in it. A concept like this does nothing to lend itself to the CAP creation project. It toes the line of brokenness too close, but at the same time runs the risk of being useless. And assuming we try to make it a decent Pokemon without breaking it, the fine line it toes discourages discussion as only a few possible stat sets or movepools would be possible. And in the end, really, what would this teach us? That having every move in your arsenal is overpowering. Or maybe that limiting a Pokemon too much to accommodate for this fact makes it useless. To be honest, I highly doubt this would tell us something useful, and it would pretty much be a waste of a project. This would be something cool to do with a few people on a weekend, not something we should spend an entire CAP process on.
But moving on, this here is another cool idea. Very few Pokemon use defensive boosting moves, for a variety of reasons. When looking at what Dusk said he was looking for in a concept, few concepts really nail it as well as this one. By introducing someone whose goal is to doing something almost never done, such as Defensive Boosting, who knows what kind of effect if could have.
Finally, we have the winner of best concept name. But in all seriousness, I really think this is an interesting idea. As I mentioned with the fatal flaw concept above, how CAPs are made is very different from how real Pokemon are made. If we look a little into what you call GameFreak's Trolling, maybe we can learn a bit about Pokemon as a whole, and what features are most important when it comes to the competitive game.
Um, my post was apparently removed to being to similar to Fatal Flaw. I think there may of been a misunderstanding- While Fatal Flaw was a pokemon with a trait that held it back, my idea was a pokemon that would make an existing subpar strategy, such as Hail or Gravity... not subpar. I fail to see how the two have any similarity at all.
There is no fixed timeline for the project, though it typically takes around two months for a full project.aesoft said:
I already investigated this before, and PO has support for move illegalities. I've implemented them before for past CAPs back when I ran the server, so it's definitely possible, just a massive amount of work for Sketch Artist. You'd have to make complex illegalities and it would require a lot of work, but it's definitely possible. The question is whether Theorymon is willing to do all of that work or not.aesoft said:
The way you worded it was very similar, and truth be told, if how you describe it is how you wanted it, then it still suffers from being far too vague as another issue.Kinkindra said:
Concept: Option limiter
Description: A pokemon that specializes on limiting the options a player has on a turn-to-turn basis.
Justification: Clicking the switch button or clicking one out of four moves. When it comes down to it, every turn, those are the only five options you have as a player. Often times, you don't really even have the choice of all four moves, as one or more of them are barely feasible in the match-up. This CAPmon specializes in even further shrinking down the options your opponent has to choose from on a turn-to-turn basis.
Questions To Be Answered:
Explanation: This CAPmon is all about limiting the actual buttons the opponent can choose from. It's really down to the most basic level of pokemon. No PP = no move. Blocked from escaping = no switching button. This pokemon goes beyond disrupting a strategy, weakening or harassing an opponent. This CAPmon specializes in making sure the opponent can't do a single thing, unless he manages to stop this CAPmon in his tracks. Blocking/Mean Looking switching, Spiting, Disabling, Tricking of Choice Items, abilities, all things to severely limit the options a player has to choose from.
Description: A pokemon that specializes on limiting the options a player has on a turn-to-turn basis.
Justification: Clicking the switch button or clicking one out of four moves. When it comes down to it, every turn, those are the only five options you have as a player. Often times, you don't really even have the choice of all four moves, as one or more of them are barely feasible in the match-up. This CAPmon specializes in even further shrinking down the options your opponent has to choose from on a turn-to-turn basis.
Questions To Be Answered:
- Is it possible to create a pokemon that can, if you have the patience in battle.., limit all possible five options a player has, and force your opponent to watch himself Struggle to death?
- Will we see Shed Shell more often, just to make sure you can at least count on having the option of switching once, knowing CAP2mon might be lurking to take the freedom of switch away from you any time.
- Is there even a defence against your PP and your move options in general being stolen away from you? How would you handle your team building, keeping such a move - limiter in mind?
Explanation: This CAPmon is all about limiting the actual buttons the opponent can choose from. It's really down to the most basic level of pokemon. No PP = no move. Blocked from escaping = no switching button. This pokemon goes beyond disrupting a strategy, weakening or harassing an opponent. This CAPmon specializes in making sure the opponent can't do a single thing, unless he manages to stop this CAPmon in his tracks. Blocking/Mean Looking switching, Spiting, Disabling, Tricking of Choice Items, abilities, all things to severely limit the options a player has to choose from.
Name: The Iron Lance
General Description: It is an offensive pokemon that looks average but has good defenses amazing typing and a great abillity to plow through teams
Justification: This will allow us to see how a sweeper with many resistances take down teams
Questions To Be Answered:
-should it or can it run a defensive set?
-how does this pokemon fight against weather?
-can it break through the top defensive pokemon?
-can it resist the top offensive pokemon?
Explanation: The Iron Lance should be like a tough to take down offensive Pokemon because the worst Pokemon are the ones that have good defenses that cant die.Bulky Gyarados in DPP is an example of this but now he has way too much competition and the metagame has changed. This guy will sweep fast, hard and with bulk calling him the lance with with a shield and
sword.
Since I could say anything here I want to suggest the dragon typing because
they are very offensive and have great movepools.
although it could be something else like fighting.
next a steel typing could be very good for defense too.
I want to explain the lance concept here. It is a very offensive Pokemon.
In my opinion the lance in Pokemon is rampardos which had one of the most
highest attacks in the whole game, but slow speed to even use it. In OU
right now that Pokemon is haxorus but 97 base speed isn't that fast.
the opposite is the shield which is bastidon and still is, so the iron lance isn't
the mix of both rampardos and bastidon. more like a Pokemon using its typing
the best it can with good defenses.
General Description: It is an offensive pokemon that looks average but has good defenses amazing typing and a great abillity to plow through teams
Justification: This will allow us to see how a sweeper with many resistances take down teams
Questions To Be Answered:
-should it or can it run a defensive set?
-how does this pokemon fight against weather?
-can it break through the top defensive pokemon?
-can it resist the top offensive pokemon?
Explanation: The Iron Lance should be like a tough to take down offensive Pokemon because the worst Pokemon are the ones that have good defenses that cant die.Bulky Gyarados in DPP is an example of this but now he has way too much competition and the metagame has changed. This guy will sweep fast, hard and with bulk calling him the lance with with a shield and
sword.
Since I could say anything here I want to suggest the dragon typing because
they are very offensive and have great movepools.
although it could be something else like fighting.
next a steel typing could be very good for defense too.
I want to explain the lance concept here. It is a very offensive Pokemon.
In my opinion the lance in Pokemon is rampardos which had one of the most
highest attacks in the whole game, but slow speed to even use it. In OU
right now that Pokemon is haxorus but 97 base speed isn't that fast.
the opposite is the shield which is bastidon and still is, so the iron lance isn't
the mix of both rampardos and bastidon. more like a Pokemon using its typing
the best it can with good defenses.
Name: "Weaponless"
General Description: A pokemon which is able to pose a formidable offensive threat, despite having weak to unusable STAB attacks.
Justification: Many of the new sweepers in generation 5 have access to powerful STAB moves and combinations which allow them to deal huge damage to a multitude of opposing Pokemon, such as Terrakion or Haxorus. This pokemon would ideally be able to pose an offensive threat despite the low BP or lack of its STAB moves. With this concept, we will be able to learn more about how useful STAB typing can be, and how a pokemon can succeed without having the monstrously powerful STAB moves common on most Generation 5 sweepers.
We'd not only learn about which defensive Pokemon are most effective, we'd also learn why: this Pokemon would have to find ways to get around most of them, if not every one (although breaking through everything with one set is probably impossible), and the defending Pokemon's typing, stats, and movepool would come into play. Of course, we'd also learn, probably more, about what makes an offensive Pokemon truly potent. Without relying upon incredibly powerful STAB attacks, coverage becomes incredibly important, as does the ability to easily switch in to set up or attack, or to be able to take hits, through bulk or typing. Finally, we'd be able to understand what makes an offensive Pokemon good against offensive teams, and better understand the difference between Pokemon that are good against offense and those that are good against stall (although that's probably true for any offensive concept).
Questions to be answered:
Explanation: In generation 4, examples of pokemon that suffered from this sort of problem are Weavile and Electivire, both of which fell into disuse due to their inability to deal sufficient damage to bulkier pokemon. With this concept, we could give CAP 2 good dual attacking stats, to allow it to hit a variety of pokemon hard, a huge Attack or Special Attack stat (although that's kind of boring), or a way to reliably boost its stats in order to allow it to hit hard enough, despite the low BP of its STAB moves. Excellent coverage is probably a given, but if another way to make the Pokemon powerful is viable, then it's not necessary. STAB moves can be available, but they can't be anywhere near as powerful as Close Combat, for example, since the point is to explore how easily a Pokemon can do damage without just brute forcing the opponent. I can see this concept failing in two opposite directions: 1) the Pokemon isn't powerful enough to break through anything defensive except for a few specific things and it's unusable, or 2) we make everything but STAB attacks too powerful (bulk, attacking stats, etc) and the Pokemon is broken. There's a middle ground, but also room for error on both sides.
Although this pokemon should be styled offensively, to suit the concept, it could also have some bulk, with a few (but not too many) support options such as Wish, to allow it to support its team and not be entirely useless when it's walled due to its lack of power. Physical/Special bias is not important. If given a large enough movepool, the Pokemon could work as a very effective lure, since it could lure any different number of Pokemon, depending upon which moves it chooses. With that also comes the possibility of forming an offensive core with one or two other offensive Pokemon, with this Pokemon luring checks to a partner, while the partners can set up on Pokemon this sweeper won't be able to damage easily. However, since the point is to pose an offensive threat, emphasis should be placed upon the Pokemon's actual sweeping ability, rather than just as a lure, although that shouldn't really be a problem since "just a lure" is incredibly limited. Choice sets could also be interesting; with a probable reliance on coverage without powerful STAB attacks to spam, Life Orb or Expert Belt seems most logical (and Choice the most illogical), but with godly prediction, Choice items might be able to attain certain significant KOs, helping to make up for the loss in power without STAB attacks.
A note: since the emphasis here is on the lack of powerful STAB attacks, this concept is the opposite of Deck Knight's Hyper Offense Specialist, if anything, and aims to learn different things from the execution of the concept.
General Description: A pokemon which is able to pose a formidable offensive threat, despite having weak to unusable STAB attacks.
Justification: Many of the new sweepers in generation 5 have access to powerful STAB moves and combinations which allow them to deal huge damage to a multitude of opposing Pokemon, such as Terrakion or Haxorus. This pokemon would ideally be able to pose an offensive threat despite the low BP or lack of its STAB moves. With this concept, we will be able to learn more about how useful STAB typing can be, and how a pokemon can succeed without having the monstrously powerful STAB moves common on most Generation 5 sweepers.
We'd not only learn about which defensive Pokemon are most effective, we'd also learn why: this Pokemon would have to find ways to get around most of them, if not every one (although breaking through everything with one set is probably impossible), and the defending Pokemon's typing, stats, and movepool would come into play. Of course, we'd also learn, probably more, about what makes an offensive Pokemon truly potent. Without relying upon incredibly powerful STAB attacks, coverage becomes incredibly important, as does the ability to easily switch in to set up or attack, or to be able to take hits, through bulk or typing. Finally, we'd be able to understand what makes an offensive Pokemon good against offensive teams, and better understand the difference between Pokemon that are good against offense and those that are good against stall (although that's probably true for any offensive concept).
Questions to be answered:
- Can a sweeper succeed at all without access to powerful STAB moves? Would this concept also make for a good lure or simple utility attacker?
- How can a pokemon best overcome the lack of powerful STAB moves?
- How can this pokemon be made to do well against bulkier or more stallish teams, if at all?
- Since it doesn't take the same amount of power to KO offensively-biased Pokemon, is it relatively trivial for this Pokemon to break through offensive teams, or will the diversity in different offensive styles (including bulky offense) make breaking through offense difficult without the correct tools?
- How much four-moveslot syndrome will this Pokemon have, and how can it get past that? Will it synergize well with any specific partners?
Explanation: In generation 4, examples of pokemon that suffered from this sort of problem are Weavile and Electivire, both of which fell into disuse due to their inability to deal sufficient damage to bulkier pokemon. With this concept, we could give CAP 2 good dual attacking stats, to allow it to hit a variety of pokemon hard, a huge Attack or Special Attack stat (although that's kind of boring), or a way to reliably boost its stats in order to allow it to hit hard enough, despite the low BP of its STAB moves. Excellent coverage is probably a given, but if another way to make the Pokemon powerful is viable, then it's not necessary. STAB moves can be available, but they can't be anywhere near as powerful as Close Combat, for example, since the point is to explore how easily a Pokemon can do damage without just brute forcing the opponent. I can see this concept failing in two opposite directions: 1) the Pokemon isn't powerful enough to break through anything defensive except for a few specific things and it's unusable, or 2) we make everything but STAB attacks too powerful (bulk, attacking stats, etc) and the Pokemon is broken. There's a middle ground, but also room for error on both sides.
Although this pokemon should be styled offensively, to suit the concept, it could also have some bulk, with a few (but not too many) support options such as Wish, to allow it to support its team and not be entirely useless when it's walled due to its lack of power. Physical/Special bias is not important. If given a large enough movepool, the Pokemon could work as a very effective lure, since it could lure any different number of Pokemon, depending upon which moves it chooses. With that also comes the possibility of forming an offensive core with one or two other offensive Pokemon, with this Pokemon luring checks to a partner, while the partners can set up on Pokemon this sweeper won't be able to damage easily. However, since the point is to pose an offensive threat, emphasis should be placed upon the Pokemon's actual sweeping ability, rather than just as a lure, although that shouldn't really be a problem since "just a lure" is incredibly limited. Choice sets could also be interesting; with a probable reliance on coverage without powerful STAB attacks to spam, Life Orb or Expert Belt seems most logical (and Choice the most illogical), but with godly prediction, Choice items might be able to attain certain significant KOs, helping to make up for the loss in power without STAB attacks.
A note: since the emphasis here is on the lack of powerful STAB attacks, this concept is the opposite of Deck Knight's Hyper Offense Specialist, if anything, and aims to learn different things from the execution of the concept.
THANK YOU, that was the word I was grasping for. Griefing the opponent and causing them to rage and make bad decisions in desperation to break your grief-chain was at the heart of my submission.
Name: Lunesta
General Description: A Pokemon that helps take advantage of new sleep mechanics in 5th Gen. (Most likely a partner for Breloom.)
Justification: Sleep mechanics were altered to greatly disadvantage Pokemon once they are put to sleep. Yet Breloom, with his 100% accurate Spore, stands at only 34th in usage, despite getting what seems to be a big buff. Also, 3 of the main counters of Breloom from 4th Gen OU (Zapdos, Gyarados, and Celebi) now stand at 20th in usage or less, and Rotom-A is no longer a counter at all. Breloom's lack of use seems to therefore be due to the new threats of 5th Gen. This CAP would partner well with Breloom in helping to tackle some of Breloom's new counters.
Questions to be Answered: Which threats of 5th Gen OU currently prevent Breloom from being used as much as it was in 4th Gen OU? How can a single CAPmon help Breloom deal with these multiple new threats? Are there ways to make Breloom's sleep-inducing more powerful other than by simply trying to K.O. Breloom's current counters?
Explanation: I guess I will now muse a bit on why I think Breloom is underused relative to 4th Gen, despite his buff. To me, the main problem is just getting Breloom in unscathed in a more powerful metagame. And standing out as two main problems are Dragonite and Gliscor. Dragonite, if already in, completely shuts down Breloom. And Gliscor now moves from counter once something else was sleep foddered, to full on counter with poison heal. I see two paths:
1) The CAPmon would be able to switch in on Gliscor and, at least some, Dragonite and force in a bulky water or Blissey etc, so that you could double switch Breloom in freely and set up. This seems like it is accomplishable with a bulky ice type, neutral to stealth rocks. However, this feels very restrictive to me.
The second option I see is simply something that abuses sleep like no other. Whether this is accomplished by a new ability, an old one I have forgotten about, a creative movepool, or (God-forbid) a new and improved Spore user, I have no idea. But I am confident in CAP's creative power.
Regardless of whether or not this is picked, I hope everyone has at least considered the concept. Sleep is certainly an interesting concept to explore with the new mechanics in place.
Thanks.
General Description: A Pokemon that helps take advantage of new sleep mechanics in 5th Gen. (Most likely a partner for Breloom.)
Justification: Sleep mechanics were altered to greatly disadvantage Pokemon once they are put to sleep. Yet Breloom, with his 100% accurate Spore, stands at only 34th in usage, despite getting what seems to be a big buff. Also, 3 of the main counters of Breloom from 4th Gen OU (Zapdos, Gyarados, and Celebi) now stand at 20th in usage or less, and Rotom-A is no longer a counter at all. Breloom's lack of use seems to therefore be due to the new threats of 5th Gen. This CAP would partner well with Breloom in helping to tackle some of Breloom's new counters.
Questions to be Answered: Which threats of 5th Gen OU currently prevent Breloom from being used as much as it was in 4th Gen OU? How can a single CAPmon help Breloom deal with these multiple new threats? Are there ways to make Breloom's sleep-inducing more powerful other than by simply trying to K.O. Breloom's current counters?
Explanation: I guess I will now muse a bit on why I think Breloom is underused relative to 4th Gen, despite his buff. To me, the main problem is just getting Breloom in unscathed in a more powerful metagame. And standing out as two main problems are Dragonite and Gliscor. Dragonite, if already in, completely shuts down Breloom. And Gliscor now moves from counter once something else was sleep foddered, to full on counter with poison heal. I see two paths:
1) The CAPmon would be able to switch in on Gliscor and, at least some, Dragonite and force in a bulky water or Blissey etc, so that you could double switch Breloom in freely and set up. This seems like it is accomplishable with a bulky ice type, neutral to stealth rocks. However, this feels very restrictive to me.
The second option I see is simply something that abuses sleep like no other. Whether this is accomplished by a new ability, an old one I have forgotten about, a creative movepool, or (God-forbid) a new and improved Spore user, I have no idea. But I am confident in CAP's creative power.
Regardless of whether or not this is picked, I hope everyone has at least considered the concept. Sleep is certainly an interesting concept to explore with the new mechanics in place.
Thanks.
Psychological Warfare certainly makes for an interesting concept, but I get a sense that it's already being widely employed in the metagame and Pokemon already exist which perform in exactly that way. As described by bugmaniacbob, the concept does not seek to create a new annoyer, like Whimsicott or Jumpluff, but rather something that is both frustrating to deal with and potentially threatening at the same time. There is definitely more we can learn about how the mind of the player impacts a match, but I think it's quite unnecessary to base an entire CAP on this premise when such information can be gleaned already.
I would argue that, whenever a player is forced to engage in mind games, that is psychological warfare in action. All of us have personally experienced how maddening it is to mispredict an opponent. Sucker Punch is probably the ultimate form of unpredictability. Often, failure to dispatch the user of this move can be fatal if they pull off a swords dance or substitute. At that point the stakes have been raised even higher and the stress builds. Toxicroak is the best example I know of who employs such a strategy. Breloom can also be frustrating when it creates a substitute instead of using Spore as its first move (and if one switches out anticipating that), and the player's mental acuity can quickly degenerate into anger when they predict wrong.
The above is simply a starter course for the kinds of mind games and trickery that are already a part of the metagame. Many other Pokemon can capably run sets that are at once vexatious and dangerous, and that's something we could start to learn about right now. Thus I feel that the Psychological Warfare concept is a great topic for discussion, but does not warrant a CAP process.
I would argue that, whenever a player is forced to engage in mind games, that is psychological warfare in action. All of us have personally experienced how maddening it is to mispredict an opponent. Sucker Punch is probably the ultimate form of unpredictability. Often, failure to dispatch the user of this move can be fatal if they pull off a swords dance or substitute. At that point the stakes have been raised even higher and the stress builds. Toxicroak is the best example I know of who employs such a strategy. Breloom can also be frustrating when it creates a substitute instead of using Spore as its first move (and if one switches out anticipating that), and the player's mental acuity can quickly degenerate into anger when they predict wrong.
The above is simply a starter course for the kinds of mind games and trickery that are already a part of the metagame. Many other Pokemon can capably run sets that are at once vexatious and dangerous, and that's something we could start to learn about right now. Thus I feel that the Psychological Warfare concept is a great topic for discussion, but does not warrant a CAP process.
I see your point. This pokemon does have the potential to be very overpowered. But I still think with the right moves and especially ability this could be done. Also, ditto isn't at its best when trying to stop smashpass or a set up under screens, which would be this guy's main focus.
In terms of the Psychological warfare concept I would think more of something like Jirachi. When that guy has a free turn you don't know if it's going to Sub/CM, Body Slam, Twave, put up rocks, U-turn, or just spam Iron Head. Each scenario requires a different mode of action and choosing the wrong one can put you in a rough spot (if it's Twave then Landorus is perfect, if it's Body Slam I'm screwed Volcarona will kill me, etc). That is what I would deem psychological warfare.
And I'm sure a CAP could delve into this much better than Gamefreak's Jirachi.
And I'm sure a CAP could delve into this much better than Gamefreak's Jirachi.
Name: Dragon Slayer
General Description: This Pokemon will be the ultimate counter or check to Dragon types.
Justification:
Let's face it. If we were to take a vote of the most overpowered typing of Pokemon, Dragon types would take the cake. Dragonite, a Pokemon that was until recently relegated to the depths of low usage, is now number 1. It can run a multitude of sets, and survive almost any OHKO because of Multi-Scale. Salamence, despite his weakness to Stealth Rock, was banned in 4th Generation OU. Garchomp, tested in two generations, was found to be broken in both of them. The Latis have both tremendous Special Offensive pressure, and were deemed broken last generation. Dragon types have just the right resistances to common attacking types, the right stats in the right places, and the offensive presence of behemoths. Dragons have truly centered the metagame around attacking with, or defending against, them. This CAP will show the true effects of this type, and its abusers, in the metagame. This CAP will relieve the offensive pressure and teambuilding stresses players meet to deal with the heavy offensive presence of Dragon types.
Questions To Be Answered:
How much can one type change the metagame?
Is Dragon truly the best offensive typing in the game?
Which factor, or combination of factors, make the Dragon type the best offensive type?
How will a Dragon-less metagame organize, both offensively and defensively?
Will Steel types fall out of favor as the premier defensive type for other walling types?
Explanation:
The vision of this concept is up to the members of Smogon and CAP. I feel as if a good benchmark for this project is a metagame similar to 4th Gen Post-Salamence, where no Dragon could fill the roll of an offensive behemoth as well as Salamence. The dragons of this period (namley Flygon) were nowhere as powerful or overbearing as Latias, Garchomp, or Salamence. The "X-Drag, Y-Mag" combo necessitates a good counter way for CAP2 to put pressure on its abusers, namely Magnezone and Magneton, by good offensive presence, super effective STAB, or outspeeding them. As a Dragon counter, this Pokemon needs to have the bulk to match the likes of Latios' Specs Draco Meteor and/or Haxorus' Band Outrage, the pinnacles of Dragon offense, and a way to immediately scare them out. This concept will reveal a lot about typing synergy and brokenness.
General Description: This Pokemon will be the ultimate counter or check to Dragon types.
Justification:
Let's face it. If we were to take a vote of the most overpowered typing of Pokemon, Dragon types would take the cake. Dragonite, a Pokemon that was until recently relegated to the depths of low usage, is now number 1. It can run a multitude of sets, and survive almost any OHKO because of Multi-Scale. Salamence, despite his weakness to Stealth Rock, was banned in 4th Generation OU. Garchomp, tested in two generations, was found to be broken in both of them. The Latis have both tremendous Special Offensive pressure, and were deemed broken last generation. Dragon types have just the right resistances to common attacking types, the right stats in the right places, and the offensive presence of behemoths. Dragons have truly centered the metagame around attacking with, or defending against, them. This CAP will show the true effects of this type, and its abusers, in the metagame. This CAP will relieve the offensive pressure and teambuilding stresses players meet to deal with the heavy offensive presence of Dragon types.
Questions To Be Answered:
How much can one type change the metagame?
Is Dragon truly the best offensive typing in the game?
Which factor, or combination of factors, make the Dragon type the best offensive type?
How will a Dragon-less metagame organize, both offensively and defensively?
Will Steel types fall out of favor as the premier defensive type for other walling types?
Explanation:
The vision of this concept is up to the members of Smogon and CAP. I feel as if a good benchmark for this project is a metagame similar to 4th Gen Post-Salamence, where no Dragon could fill the roll of an offensive behemoth as well as Salamence. The dragons of this period (namley Flygon) were nowhere as powerful or overbearing as Latias, Garchomp, or Salamence. The "X-Drag, Y-Mag" combo necessitates a good counter way for CAP2 to put pressure on its abusers, namely Magnezone and Magneton, by good offensive presence, super effective STAB, or outspeeding them. As a Dragon counter, this Pokemon needs to have the bulk to match the likes of Latios' Specs Draco Meteor and/or Haxorus' Band Outrage, the pinnacles of Dragon offense, and a way to immediately scare them out. This concept will reveal a lot about typing synergy and brokenness.
Name: The new weather: Gravity.
General Description: A Pokemon that can somehow benefit in a good non-gimnicky way, making gravity relevant in the metagame.
Justification: When everyone thinks of Gravity, the first word that pops out is "gimnick", it has never been relevant while other field efects as weather and even Trick Room took its spot.
With the project "The new weather: Gravity", we could learn about the field efect Gravity and it's possible efect on the metagame.
Questions To Be Answered:
- Is it possible that Gravity takes a spot on the metagame?
- Can Gravity affect the metagame the way weather constantly does?
- Can Gravity work in tandem with weather? How?
- Would Gravity work on an offensive way, or can it be used on stall teams?
Explanation: This Pokemon can work with the also CAP project Fidgit, thanks to its facility to do field efect support, so the project should have good synergy with said Fidgit and other possible Gravity supporters to make it work, also, make it work on a different way than offense, making Gravity stall a possible option.
General Description: A Pokemon that can somehow benefit in a good non-gimnicky way, making gravity relevant in the metagame.
Justification: When everyone thinks of Gravity, the first word that pops out is "gimnick", it has never been relevant while other field efects as weather and even Trick Room took its spot.
With the project "The new weather: Gravity", we could learn about the field efect Gravity and it's possible efect on the metagame.
Questions To Be Answered:
- Is it possible that Gravity takes a spot on the metagame?
- Can Gravity affect the metagame the way weather constantly does?
- Can Gravity work in tandem with weather? How?
- Would Gravity work on an offensive way, or can it be used on stall teams?
Explanation: This Pokemon can work with the also CAP project Fidgit, thanks to its facility to do field efect support, so the project should have good synergy with said Fidgit and other possible Gravity supporters to make it work, also, make it work on a different way than offense, making Gravity stall a possible option.
Oops
Yes, i had forgotten completely about that at the time, I was about to edit that-imma edit that now :_I
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