I was going to say ask some respected and all-knowing people to make a list of your favorite ideas so far and compare notes, but that might work as well ;P
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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Concept Submissions
- Thread starter DougJustDoug
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Honestly this is the very first thread with one of these polls so a lot of people are going to miss the mark.
For my initial recommendations, I say we add the following rules/regs to the topic should we ever get to CaP 5:
a) Each user may submit only one concept. Think long and hard about your concept before posting it, and make sure it is the one you think the metagame needs most.
b) If you wish to change your submitted concept, please quote the first one, then say you are removing it and putting another in its place. Please keep this to a minimum and provide a solid reason for your decision.
c) If you find your concept difficult to explain in broad terms, find examples in current pokemon that illustrate the strengths you want your pokemon to possess and write them in a seperate paragraph for clarity.
d) Typing is a touchy subject because it comes immediately following the concept poll and thus may "poison the well," so to speak. If at all possible, refrain from demanding a specific type or ability. If you are commenting on a concept that may need a specific ability, PM it to the concept originator for feedback.
Note that in writing these I have broken some of these myself, but I wanted to put my thoughts down in a coherent manner.
LOL, based on those rules above me, I broke rule A, C (probably), and D with my suggestions. xD
Concept: Total defense shogun
Description: This pokemon due to it's large amount of resistances can come in on a lot of moves and situations (Taunting, subseeding, possible DD Salamence ?) to support the party.
I'm sorry Deck Knight but I have break rule a) and get this off my chest.
Concept: Wall sweeper
Description: A mixed sweeping pokemon that leans mostly to special attacking move pool and has the typing to compensate for weak defenses to take hits. With the right EV spread, this pokemon can tank as well as a Tauntrados.
Description: This pokemon due to it's large amount of resistances can come in on a lot of moves and situations (Taunting, subseeding, possible DD Salamence ?) to support the party.
I'm sorry Deck Knight but I have break rule a) and get this off my chest.
Concept: Wall sweeper
Description: A mixed sweeping pokemon that leans mostly to special attacking move pool and has the typing to compensate for weak defenses to take hits. With the right EV spread, this pokemon can tank as well as a Tauntrados.
Alright, this will be the only concept submission I ask for. I will not post anymore after this so I don't break any rules.
Concept: Bulky Dragons
Description: Having a Bulky Dragon on a team would be very surprising. You may think it would be useless but it would have great defenses and average attack. It would be leaning slightly towards the SpA because we need some more SpA Dragons out there. We don't have any Bulky Dragons and the Dragons we have right now aren't ment to be Bulky and don't do such a great job at it either since they're ment to be offensive. It would be a great addition to the OU metagame and maybe, it could be a Garchomp counter somehow.
That's what I'm thinking right now. Good rules by the way Deck Knight.
Concept: Bulky Dragons
Description: Having a Bulky Dragon on a team would be very surprising. You may think it would be useless but it would have great defenses and average attack. It would be leaning slightly towards the SpA because we need some more SpA Dragons out there. We don't have any Bulky Dragons and the Dragons we have right now aren't ment to be Bulky and don't do such a great job at it either since they're ment to be offensive. It would be a great addition to the OU metagame and maybe, it could be a Garchomp counter somehow.
That's what I'm thinking right now. Good rules by the way Deck Knight.
Anybody feel like commenting on this? I kinda feel like it got lost in the shuffle. =S
Concept: A Random and Fixed damage move user that isn't a joke
Description: A pokemon that has a trait to ensure a move like Magitude and Psywave do a certain amount off damage that isn't too much but isn't so low that your better off using something like Tackle i want to see a pokemon
Problem: uhh how to make it not broken? since alot of the random moves highest damage points are really high like magitude for example has 2 chances to be be stronger than EQ (mag 9 is 110 BP and 10 is 150 BP)
Description: A pokemon that has a trait to ensure a move like Magitude and Psywave do a certain amount off damage that isn't too much but isn't so low that your better off using something like Tackle i want to see a pokemon
Problem: uhh how to make it not broken? since alot of the random moves highest damage points are really high like magitude for example has 2 chances to be be stronger than EQ (mag 9 is 110 BP and 10 is 150 BP)
It's good to see all the enthusiasm people have for this next CAP project. Unfortunately, most of the content in this thread is worthless for CAP 4.
As I feared, most people are using this thread as a soapbox for all their "cool" ideas. Very few people are posting Concepts, as defined in the OP. Most people are posting type combos or ability suggestions. There's also a healthy dose of laugh-out-loud ridiculously broken ideas posted here. All in all, of the nearly 200 posts so far, there are only a few legitimate Concepts suggested and the rest is garbage.
That's not all bad actually. To be honest, one of the reasons we are doing the Concept thread first, is to get all the "Wouldn't this be cool" crap out of the way at the beginning. In the past, people would spam that shit into almost every CAP poll. At least we get all the nonsense out on the table now... where it will be summarily ignored.
Let's get a few things straight:
A word of advice to would-be Concept submitters -- a Concept does not have to be an elaborate, oh-my-god, creative innovation. "Wall Breaker" is a concept. "Status Absorber" is a concept. "Great Lead Poke" is a concept. They aren't the sexiest of concepts, and I'm not submitting them. I'm just pointing out that a Concept is simply the role the pokemon will play in the metagame. If you can't think of a role that needs filling, or a role that we need more of -- then you don't know much about the metagame.
If this post comes off like I'm bitching at everyone, I don't mean it that way. I'm not upset about this thread at all. I'm shaking my head a little bit... but I'm glad people are interested in the project. This is the first time we've done a Concept Thread on the CAP project. I expect it will take a while for people to get the gist of the whole thing.
I will go through the Concepts presented so far and list the ones that are OK. Hopefully, I'll get to that tomorrow.
As I feared, most people are using this thread as a soapbox for all their "cool" ideas. Very few people are posting Concepts, as defined in the OP. Most people are posting type combos or ability suggestions. There's also a healthy dose of laugh-out-loud ridiculously broken ideas posted here. All in all, of the nearly 200 posts so far, there are only a few legitimate Concepts suggested and the rest is garbage.
That's not all bad actually. To be honest, one of the reasons we are doing the Concept thread first, is to get all the "Wouldn't this be cool" crap out of the way at the beginning. In the past, people would spam that shit into almost every CAP poll. At least we get all the nonsense out on the table now... where it will be summarily ignored.
Let's get a few things straight:
- We are not changing the essential process of how a pokemon is created. Each facet of the pokemon will be decided by a series of independent polls. Any concept that dictates the outcome of any of those polls, is not a Concept.
- Any Concept that contains a specific stipulation for a poll outcome will be IGNORED. That means that any post that contains a specific typing or ability will be ignored.
- If a concept references a move, that might be OK. Since movesets are voted on as a whole, a single "inspiration" move that centers a concept, is not exactly "stipulating the outcome" of the moveset poll. If you list a bunch of moves in your concept, you've crossed the line.
- If you can't think of a "good idea" without stating a specific ability or type -- then please don't post here. You are really just wasting thread space when you do it.
- I'm surprised how many senior members of this project and the Smogon community in general, are posting illegal concepts.
- I'm not surprised that no one is reading the OP and just posting fanboy ideas. It's a frustrating reality of this project. Nobody reads OP's. That's fine with me. I'm ignoring their idiotic posts... so there.
A word of advice to would-be Concept submitters -- a Concept does not have to be an elaborate, oh-my-god, creative innovation. "Wall Breaker" is a concept. "Status Absorber" is a concept. "Great Lead Poke" is a concept. They aren't the sexiest of concepts, and I'm not submitting them. I'm just pointing out that a Concept is simply the role the pokemon will play in the metagame. If you can't think of a role that needs filling, or a role that we need more of -- then you don't know much about the metagame.
If this post comes off like I'm bitching at everyone, I don't mean it that way. I'm not upset about this thread at all. I'm shaking my head a little bit... but I'm glad people are interested in the project. This is the first time we've done a Concept Thread on the CAP project. I expect it will take a while for people to get the gist of the whole thing.
I will go through the Concepts presented so far and list the ones that are OK. Hopefully, I'll get to that tomorrow.
Concept: "Haze-ablaze"
Description: Doesn't necessarily have to do with fire, just wanted to have a memorable nickname for it. Basically, just a Pokémon that can use Haze with success. This can be done in any number of ways, for example: high speed, high defenses, or an ability that assists in this goal.
Concept: "Great Lead Poke"
Description: Inspired by Doug's post above this one. Basically, a lead that's able to disrupt the standard opening Pokemon, be it by threatening them or being able to nullify their standard strategy.
The only other one I wanted was brought up already (instant anti-Stealth_Rock).
Description: Doesn't necessarily have to do with fire, just wanted to have a memorable nickname for it. Basically, just a Pokémon that can use Haze with success. This can be done in any number of ways, for example: high speed, high defenses, or an ability that assists in this goal.
Concept: "Great Lead Poke"
Description: Inspired by Doug's post above this one. Basically, a lead that's able to disrupt the standard opening Pokemon, be it by threatening them or being able to nullify their standard strategy.
The only other one I wanted was brought up already (instant anti-Stealth_Rock).
I like that one.
Dane switched in Hazemon (lvl 100 Hazemon).
All stat changes have eliminated due to (Ability).
Concept: Baton Passer
Description: Learns Baton Pass and a large variety of stat-boosting moves. Probably has a high Speed, an ability, or some other trait that helps it Baton Pass better.
Description: Learns Baton Pass and a large variety of stat-boosting moves. Probably has a high Speed, an ability, or some other trait that helps it Baton Pass better.
Shiny Noctowl, you have 12 concepts. I think you should stop, now.
And yes, I went through all eight pages.
And yes, I went through all eight pages.
Concept: Defensive Cleric
Description: A supporter that can heal its allies and withstand many attacks. Something along the lines of Chimecho, but more defensive and possibly absorb status inducers.
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I'm new to this, so I hope it will be considered. Most of my ideas were already taken, except for something that can utilize infatuation to sweep part of the opponent's team... but then I didn't think that was a really good idea, so I discarded it.
If such a Pokémon were made, then I would exchange the Chimecho in my team (in Shoddy) for this. Chimecho is fairly useful, but it can only take one to two hits, which sometimes is not enough to heal up the rest of my team. =/
Description: A supporter that can heal its allies and withstand many attacks. Something along the lines of Chimecho, but more defensive and possibly absorb status inducers.
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I'm new to this, so I hope it will be considered. Most of my ideas were already taken, except for something that can utilize infatuation to sweep part of the opponent's team... but then I didn't think that was a really good idea, so I discarded it.
If such a Pokémon were made, then I would exchange the Chimecho in my team (in Shoddy) for this. Chimecho is fairly useful, but it can only take one to two hits, which sometimes is not enough to heal up the rest of my team. =/
I think it would be awesome to have a poke that 2 polar opposite roles, depending on ability. Like say it has average defenses and an average defensive type, but one of it's abilities is something ridiculous like immune to not very effective damage. And it would also have average offense/speed but something like auto-tailwind as it's other ability, so you have no idea what's up when your opponent sends this guy in. That would really cool. But he wouldn't be the best at either, just the threat of both is what makes him good.
Concept: Unwallable Rapid Spinner
Description: The 4 OU Rapid Spinners are Donphan, Forretress, Starmie, and Tentacruel. All 4 are walled by pokemon such as Cresselia, Blissey, Bronzong, etc. This new pokemon wouldn't necessarily have high attacking stats although a stat-upper might be a possibility for its moveset. Leech Seed could be an option to ensure that it isn't completely walled. It would have the defensive capabilities to take on the ghosts that resist rapid spin.
Description: The 4 OU Rapid Spinners are Donphan, Forretress, Starmie, and Tentacruel. All 4 are walled by pokemon such as Cresselia, Blissey, Bronzong, etc. This new pokemon wouldn't necessarily have high attacking stats although a stat-upper might be a possibility for its moveset. Leech Seed could be an option to ensure that it isn't completely walled. It would have the defensive capabilities to take on the ghosts that resist rapid spin.
I went through all the Concept submissions so far. The following are the ones that seem to fit the criteria of a "valid" Concept. I'm not saying they are GOOD CONCEPTS, I'm just saying that they are not illegal for reasons mentioned in my last post. If you are having a hard time understanding what is acceptable or not -- here's a list of submissions that are acceptable. Some of these could use a few changes to the wording, but are OK in general.
THIS LIST IS NOT A POLL. It is not a list of submissions that will be on the poll. It's just a list for reference....
The following ideas seem like they could be made into an acceptable Concept, but their current descriptions contain wording that make them illegal (most likely inappropriate references to abilities or typing):
I ignored a few "legal" ideas because they were too close to the ideas presented above. I tried to use the first acceptable poster of an idea, and then started ignoring duplicates. In a couple of cases, the ideas above were not the first mention of an idea, but they were the first acceptable mention of the idea.
I hope this helps other Concept submitters get an idea of what we are looking for in this thread.
THIS LIST IS NOT A POLL. It is not a list of submissions that will be on the poll. It's just a list for reference....
The following ideas seem like they could be made into an acceptable Concept, but their current descriptions contain wording that make them illegal (most likely inappropriate references to abilities or typing):
I ignored a few "legal" ideas because they were too close to the ideas presented above. I tried to use the first acceptable poster of an idea, and then started ignoring duplicates. In a couple of cases, the ideas above were not the first mention of an idea, but they were the first acceptable mention of the idea.
I hope this helps other Concept submitters get an idea of what we are looking for in this thread.
I got a quick quesiton. Looking over the poll events inthe process guide, I noticed this time there is no voting for making a new pokemon vs. making an evolution of a current one.
Will this be addressed in one of the current polls listed in the guide? Im asking this because I am wondering if my concept submission should be improving an existing one or if it is possible to just impliment a new concept with the evolution of an old pokemon.
Will this be addressed in one of the current polls listed in the guide? Im asking this because I am wondering if my concept submission should be improving an existing one or if it is possible to just impliment a new concept with the evolution of an old pokemon.
I'm new here, and I'd first like to say I joined because of this project. Great idea! That said...
Pseudo Regigigas- I'd like to see like a opposite Regigigas type thing. Something that could either have stunted defences, but "wall-up" late, or something that starts strong, but diminishes in strength over consecutive turn usage. Just an idea.
Turn-trap move user- Something that would be able to set up and execute moves that have lasting trapping effects, like Wrap and Fire Spin. Something to make the Grip Claw useful, and maybe have it be able to trappass...
Other ideas that may not be legal due to new ability constraints:
Auto-Status- A pokemon that, when sent out, would inflict a certain status effect of some kind, like Intimidate, but with status. Would have to be careful of Poison Heal, Guts and the like to balance it.
Self-Perish- A pokemon who would get into battle, be a strong opponent, and systematically die. Novelty anyone?
Pseudo Regigigas- I'd like to see like a opposite Regigigas type thing. Something that could either have stunted defences, but "wall-up" late, or something that starts strong, but diminishes in strength over consecutive turn usage. Just an idea.
Turn-trap move user- Something that would be able to set up and execute moves that have lasting trapping effects, like Wrap and Fire Spin. Something to make the Grip Claw useful, and maybe have it be able to trappass...
Other ideas that may not be legal due to new ability constraints:
Auto-Status- A pokemon that, when sent out, would inflict a certain status effect of some kind, like Intimidate, but with status. Would have to be careful of Poison Heal, Guts and the like to balance it.
Self-Perish- A pokemon who would get into battle, be a strong opponent, and systematically die. Novelty anyone?
I wanted to say that I am strongly against the ideas of anti Stealth Rock, anti Garchomp, or basically any pokemon designed to counter another strategy. I understand that removing stealth rock adds some new pokemon into the metagame that used to be near impossible to use, but a stealth rock removing pokemon would be
1: Redundant with rapid spinners already in existancce
2: Be a shut down to a specific strategy rather than a strategy of itself
3: It removes a strategy from being reliable in play, and I am more worried about number of strategies that can be used in play than number of pokemon.\
Same concepts apply to Garchomp. It says "I don't like to deal with Garchomp, so now I don't have to"
This is also why I support the gravity/trick room concept, but especially the gravity start concept, since it would expand a strategy largely unexplored. Also (insert shameless plug here) I support my own idea of finding the worst possible offensive/defensive type combination, and making a usable pokemon out of it.
1: Redundant with rapid spinners already in existancce
2: Be a shut down to a specific strategy rather than a strategy of itself
3: It removes a strategy from being reliable in play, and I am more worried about number of strategies that can be used in play than number of pokemon.\
Same concepts apply to Garchomp. It says "I don't like to deal with Garchomp, so now I don't have to"
This is also why I support the gravity/trick room concept, but especially the gravity start concept, since it would expand a strategy largely unexplored. Also (insert shameless plug here) I support my own idea of finding the worst possible offensive/defensive type combination, and making a usable pokemon out of it.
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