Okay, home stretch. Thank goodness I have something to work off of now (thanks for taking some precious time off from your work, bmb, so you can actually get to doing your other work), so this will be my "ultimate post" regarding Quiver Dance. There will be no more novels from me on the subject after this, although I may still respond to particularly strong or particularly weak rebuttals to the content of this post.
Finally Posted by Fat bugmaniacbob
The onus is on those who like Quiver Dance to prove that it does not go against the concept, be it through countering the above points, or else demonstrating whatever qualities it may have that make up for its deficiencies.
HOW DO YOU PROVE A NEGATIVE I suppose the general framework around the pro-Quiver Dance camp, as far as I see it, is that we acknowledge the realities of our CAP's Speed tier and typing as they interact with the OU metagame, and we see those two areas as overwhelmingly risky when considering Aurumoth for teambuilding. We believe that there ought to be a reward that matches or exceeds the risks included in choosing to use this Pokemon over some hypothetical alternative for any possible purpose, and that Quiver Dance and Dragon Dance are ideal ways to do just that. This argument is especially considering every other aspect of this CAP's design, from all three Abilities individually, to all three Abilities in relation to one another, to our chosen stats, all the way back to our chosen typing profile.
First of all, those of us arguing for the inclusion of Quiver Dance look around OU and see a handful Pokemon roaming around the base 94 Speed tier, lurking in the shadows and threatening (with stats, typing, and/or consistency) to outclass Aurumoth regardless of which direction we steer its movepool; there is Hydreigon (who has higher Speed, more/better resistances, instant recovery, and superior coverage), Genesect (who has nearly the exact same coverage as CAP, only with more reliability, higher Speed, Download, and better defensive typing), Gliscor (who plays a good bulky pivot with Spikes immunity, SR neutrality, reliable turn-by-turn healing, and even U-turn access), Haxorus/Salamence (they both have superior Speed and power, better STABs to use in conjunction with Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, and are both more difficult to switch into), Volcarona (who has higher Speed, better stats and typing for Quiver Dance, and better stats and typing for general sweeping), Rotom-W (who has better Special bulk and, of course, typing, for a Burn-spreading pivot, along with Volt Switch and weather-abusing STABs), and you see where I'm going with this.
Secondly, we look around OU and see another, much larger handful of Pokemon who outspeed and O-2HKO Aurumoth without any boosts whatsoever. I made a non-exhaustive list and posted it and then quoted the list again in a separate post, so I won't quote it again, but suffice it to say that the list is too damn long and underscores an enormous problem with Moth sets that
don't utilize Speed boosts of any sort: for the most part, if it can outrun Aurumoth, it can beat Aurumoth one-on-one (factoring in Stealth Rock). This includes almost everything from regular Jolteon to Scarf Politoed to Scarf Genesect to Band Genesect to MoxieMence to all of Rain offense and most of Sand or Sun offense. It includes things like un-boosted Timid Latias's 4 SpA Dragon Pulse (2HKO), Timid Choice Scarf Latios's Draco Meteor (which does even 64% - 75.6% to Aurumoth through an uninvested +1 SpD), and even Scizor, whose Bullet Punch 2HKOs 252/4 Aurumoth through Weak Armor (let's not talk about U-turn...). Our CAP's only way out of this is to catch checks on the switch with a coverage move (lolverheat) or with Glare/Will-o-Wisp (and then gtfo), which is fine to do, but it has nothing to do with the concept that it doesn't have to do with general strategy. Still, shoehorning its niche towards more tankish roles is something best left to tankish Pokemon, wouldn't you think?
Thirdly, we look at our CAP itself and see weaknesses to Bug, Dark, Fire, Flying, Ghost, and Rock attacks, poorly compensated for by resistances to Fighting, Grass, Ground, and Psychic attacks. Of the resistances, only Fighting and Ground are reliable or common (and they are common, I'll say that, but there are still only two of them), and yet they are still eclipsed by the abundance of U-turns, Pursuits, Crunches, Fire Blasts, Flamethrowers, Hurricanes, Shadow Balls, and Stone Edges being thrown about the OU metagame. Adding to those the neutral STABs and coverage attacks that can take enormous chunks out of CAP (unless they are Fighting/Grass/Ground/Psychic-type, and even some that are), the 25% of HP lost to SR or even more to Spikes/Toxic Spikes, and the general power creep of BW2, we don't see Aurumoth competing well as a tank or pivot or whatever the "QD opposition" sees in this CAP. This thing isn't Cresselia, and even so, Cresselia sucks!
Those are the "risks" we've taken on, for every Aurumoth set there will ever be, for sure. So yes, Quiver dance
does fit the concept by its own terms, as it actually directly rewards the user for strategic use of Aurumoth's limited resources, in spite of its faults. In my opinion, we have a trio of general risks that should not necessarily stretch all the way through the movepool stage and muddle Aurumoth's position in the metagame. What we are looking for is something that is "very risky to play, but very rewarding when played correctly," not "very risky to play, but able to get a surprise Burn on Genesect switch-ins." What I hope to do with Quiver Dance is establish sets that can
outperform similar sets from other Pokemon (even Volcarona), but only if CAP's chosen Abilities, which are tricky to take advantage of, are taken advantage of. That is my interpretation of the concept as it has played out, and I believe Quiver Dance fulfills this interpretation with all three Abilities; whether it's outpacing Scarf Terrakion by smartly switching Weak Armor Moth into Close Combat and Dancing on the switch so it can't come back in to revenge two turns later, committing to a Dragonite Illusion by eating Stealth Rock in order to lure Mamoswine out (possibly to clear the way or poke holes for a Dragonite sweep?), or blasting shit indiscriminately (after the only free turn you'll get) with Megahorn/Thunder/Blizzard/Focus Blast and your balls out and gladly accepting all the Hurricanes and Grasswhistles that come your way. Those are rewards. Those are very rewarding rewards. They are also rewards that would be way less rewarding with a Pokemon stuck at 94 Speed with hardly a resistance in sight and only a sparse helping of predictable coverage and status moves. I understand that Aurumoth will not "be terrible" without Quiver Dance, but I would like to challenge the people arguing that CAP is just fine without it (or Dragon Dance) to come out with a concrete list of rewards this Pokemon apparently already has that would: a) render Quiver Dance irrelevant to the concept, b) render Quiver Dance broken, and/or c) make Aurumoth better at any one thing than any other single OU Pokemon, even if it's just a theorymon'd argument. I'd also like to see anything but WoW/Glare/[generic Illusion-is-uber panic attack] as responses, because throwing around status is a fairly agreed-upon safe tactic (sort of like Substitute, but I will give up that fight), and manufacturing successful Illusions, I predict, is going to be just as much a headache as an advantage, especially when you're counting on fooling your opponent in order to boost and they KO or status you instead.
There that's my piece.
