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CAP 5 CAP 5 - Ability Discussion Thread

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I'm confused with your logic on why we can't have a second ability if we choose Levitate....

One of three things happens

1. The ability is inferior to Levitate and is never chosen

2. The ability is equal to Levitate and has an even split of usage, which isn't such a bad thing as to lose Levitate means you can't get free switch-ins, which is the main reason to have Levitate on a Sweeper like this.

3. The ability overshadows Levitate, and Levitate is never used.

None of these scenarios seems too horrible to me.
 
Tinted Lens is perfect aesthetically, but would it become broken with it?

I think Unburden could be an interesting choice. yDG's art kind of looks as though it would struggle to hold an item, and although it wouldn't need the extra speed boost in most cases, it couldn't hurt.

Plus, I look at this thing and think Rough Skin, Compoundeyes, and Clear Body.
 
I like the Whiplash name, but not the effect.

Whiplash: All moves BP is increased by 1.3, but user takes 1/10 of the damage inflicted.

So this is similar to double Life Orb, but cuts the amount of attacks it can use to only about 5. If you add in us giving it Head Smash, this gets 3 attacks at the most. If we give it a special Recoil move, this is going to have 2.

But I rather not have that, instead

Skill Link
Reckless
Adaptability(With how it's structure is, you think it can make many different formations with its claws)
Hyper Cutter
Mold Breaker
 
my thoughts on the matter:

mold breaker simply because of the CAP Prompt. however, that is the only reason i would agree with mold breaker.

Levitate fits the picture, however, there are a few pokemon that seem to float that are not flying nor do they have levitate.

limber to me makes sense. the pieces are not attached, so how can it be paralyzed? Paralysis block would help for obvious reasons.

rock head make sense only for the fact that its head is made of rock.

technician would help... but i cant think of more justification


ill be back to debate these points at a later time. in the mean time, please tell me what you think about my opinions.
 
Since YDG's design won (I liked Calad's but I'm ashamed of all the cheating bastards who voted for him), my previous ability suggestions wouldn't fit flavour-wise.
Technician because he looks like a smart little thing. It would help give him some better STAB without having to make a new move.
Limber for the same reasons as Chris Teke: the little guy's limbs aren't attached! Therefore it doesn't seem to make sense that he could be paralysed. May give him easier switch-ins.
 
I'll post this conversation I had with Rujak about some abilities. I hope it's not all been said before.

Code: 
Rujak: I suggested Technician/Limber for its abilities. I just thought they made sense and be helpful. o.o 
Captain: technician and limber actualy do make sense 
Captain: well 
Captain: technician if it doesn't get a new move 
Captain: it could also power up HP 
Captain: maybe other things like uh vaccuum wave 
Rujak: Ancientpower? ^_^ 
Captain: limber, not being paralyzed is cool 
Captain: but what is gonna paralyze you other than bliss who you probably don't wanna fight anyway? 
Captain: how many OU pokemon DO you want to fight that carry t-wave? 
Rujak: Togekiss? It kind of helps on switch-ins. 
Rujak: solid rock would have been nice, but it would've fit better for Calad's design. 
Captain: eh yeah it'd help for togekiss 
Captain: so far, levitate is my kind of ability. Immunities FTW! How is being immune to ground not helpful? 
Captain: EQ is whored in the metagame 
Captain: (actually it's even been whored since RBY) 
Rujak: levitate > limber then? =D 
Captain: for switchins yeah
 
Flavorwise, I think some moves that work are Hyper Cutter, Battle Armor, Inner Focus, Levitate, Rock Head, Rough Skin, Sand Veil, Sniper, Solid Rock, Steadfast, And Technician.

Of those, I think these make the most sense:
Sand Veil
Technician
Rough Skin
Inner Focus
Levitate

ParadOxymoron said:
If we go with Levitate, we can not have a second ability.
And do NOT say Bronzong. That was a cleverly-designed ability duality and it does not count.
That is all.
Click to expand...

Bronzong anyway. :P
 
I can't understand all this interest in flavor at all... maybe i'm wrong, but i remember Doug saying what i'm going to say on a previous CAP thread: the aim of the CAP project is to make things which can be interesting from a strategical/competitive point of view. We dont need to care about: am i creating a pokemon-like thing? We are not Nintendo. Our aim is to study competitive (OU) environment through creation of new competitors (i'm consciously trying not to call them pokemon now) who can either balance the metagame or outline some hidden potential of certain "off-the-beaten-path" pokemon. If we dont give something like Flamethrower or Limber to this guy simply because it does not fit flavor, we are going wrong.

We should not even care about who will win the art contest. We should say: ok, this is a rock special sweeper with 120SATK and 130SPD, how can we fit better its "Break the Mold" role? GL for the artists but this is the ability submission thread
 
If you guys have a problem with it having a powerful STAB lets just give it normalize >.>

i think technican isn't broken... most pokrmon who get it are BL and under...
 
2. The ability is equal to Levitate and has an even split of usage, which isn't such a bad thing as to lose Levitate means you can't get free switch-ins, which is the main reason to have Levitate on a Sweeper like this.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is that Rockmon can get the benefit of both. People think it has levitate so dont use ground moves for fear of wasting a turn, and it gets the ability to use something else aswell. Of course as soon as the other ability is revealed the charade is gone, but it still adds extra unpredictability to the Poke.

Well, These are the abilities I think would fit with the art as well as the stats:
Adaptability (helps with a fail of a stab, but might be broken)
Clear Body (makes sense with the artwork, but a bit useless otherwise)
Inner Focus (Not too useful, but it could have its moments)
Levitate (my favourite) (fits with the artwork, and helps with switching in. makes most sense with the pokemon, but might be broken.)
Limber (with floating limbs, limber seems an obvious choice. Though it seems paralysis might be a useful way of stopping Rockmon, so maybe broken?)
Magnet Pull (increases use as a rev-killer, and gives the ability to counter skarm, zong easily etc.)
Mold Breaker (I like this idea, fits perfectly with the concept and could create some interesting battles. So many pokes rely on their abilities that this could put a whole new spin on Rockmon's usefullness.)
Pressure (Standard. But with relatively frail defenses I cant see it doing much.)
Quick Feet (allows it to switch in on status, and makes it nigh on outspeedable. I think this could be very interesting as an option.)
Sand Veil (makes sense, but is ultimately broken. Rockmon in sandstorm is ridiculously good if sand veil is an ability.)
Sniper (Not enough pokes have sniper, but I think it could be really good on Rockmon. The art looks like an accurate pokemon.)
Synchronise (not enough synchronize pokes around. Zam and Umbreon are the only good ones, both of which are BL. It would give Rockmon another use aswell.)
Technician (for obvious reasons. However, like it has been discussed, could very well be broken.)
Trace (aside from porygon2 there are no reliable tracers. I think this could give rockmon the element of unpredictability, and would cause the user and the foe to adapt to different situations. Allows a useful switch in to heatran (especially if rockmon will learn flamethrower) and makes using it a bit more interesting)
Click to expand...
So yeah, those are my thoughts on the subject. Anyone (dis)agree?

Cheers,
PlumCake
 
I think Adaptibillity would work perfectly for this poke. It looks like it could adapt to its enviroment pretty good with those lose limps, and it would NOT be broken. Adaptibillity makes STAB x2 instead of x1.5. This would make Power Gem have the same strength as a move with 93.33333..... BP with normal STAB. Its almost equal to (the move) Psychic on a Psychic pokemon (a little more BP, but without the additional effect of lowering SpD). This pokemon would not be broken with this abillity, it would just make it bad SpA STAB moves pretty good.

I think this poke should not have Levitate, it could have Magnet Rise instead as a move.

But I can also see abilitys like Sniper, Skill link, Limber, Rough Skin and Solid Rock.
 
If you saw rockmons other sketches, you can see he doesnt levitate, but his claws dig into the ground and he moves in a sling shot type fashion.
 
Rockmon doesn't need levitate, it doesn't look like it spends all its time floating around. Why would anything that insubstantial in form expose itself? It's better off using ambush attacks from underground, where it just looks like a pile of debris.

Still going with Skill Link. Swords Dance + Skill Link Rock Blast would be awesome >_> (I fail to see how you can't justify Swords Dance on a collection of sharp animated rocks). Maybe as a secondary ability though, since I doubt I can sell it when people are thrusting Technician around everywhere.

If we made this an ambush pokemon, would Arena Trap be too broken?

We coulf also give this Guts or Rivalry based on its nature, maybe.
 
I don't Arena Trap on it, it's such a boring ability.

Skill Link is boring as well, I mean just like Rock Blast is really viable with it.

Rivalry is interesting but I don't really see it on this.

Guts is worthless with our attack, it'll just be a fodder ability.
 
Anticipation, Clear Body, Hyper Cutter, Levitate, Limber, Oblivious, Pressure, Soundproof, Technician, Trace

I think that all of these abilities would work, and bolded my personal favorites. I don't think any of them are too powerful, but the ones I like are less useful (other than possibly Pressure) than the rest.
 
Levitate fits perfectly and is a very decent ability competitively, it gives it some chances to come in even with its poor defences.
I know some people think its uninteresting, but its a solid choice for the primary ability.

I am not sure what to support for secondary ability yet.
 
Btw, since this is a Pokemon meant to break the mold, I don't think we should shy away from this fact.

A good, non arbitrary place to start would be saying we won't give it an ability that other Rock types have. I made a quick little list that shows how many of each ability that Rock Pokemon. I only used fully evolved pokemon, except when the underevolved had different abilities. I might have missed a few though, as when I went down the list I only looked at the pre-evos that I knew had different one.

Code: 
[SIZE=2]Rock Head IIIIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sturdy IIIIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Swift Swim III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Levitate II[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Battle Armor II[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shell Armor[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lightning Rod[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pressure[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Gluttony[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Magma Armor[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Flame Body[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Hustle[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Natural Cure[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Guts[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shed Skin[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sandstream[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Magnet Pull[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Suction Cups[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Clear Body[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Mold Breaker[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Solid Rock[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Multitype[/SIZE]

Basically, count the number of I's; if there is no I, it is just one Pokemon having it.

If we go by this, I think we can set a good non arbitrary point to build off of.

Sure, Levitate looks decent on this thing, but two Rock Pokemon already get it.

I think this also shows that we shouldn't put Rock Head or Sturdy on this, lol.

EDIT: I also went ahead and made a list of the abilities known by the Pokemon that had +100 in both SpAtk and Speed.

Code: 
[SIZE=2]Synchronize III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Inner Focus[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Levitate IIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Natural Cure III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Blaze III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Bad Dreams[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pressure IIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Serene Grace II[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Hydration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Static [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lightening Rod[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Intimidate[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Overgrow[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Illuminate[/SIZE]

This gives extra incentive for us not to give this thing Levitate or Pressure.

What other molds does our guy kind of fit into? I've taken into account typing and base stats.

EDIT #2: OK, decided to make a list of all the abilities besides the one in the previous two lists. I also added a brief little comment regarding my feeling for each ability. Also, I did this fast, so please point out any list issues. I am sure I missed some things / made a mistake somewhere (I edited in Tinted Lens lol), so please look for any problems.

Code: 
[SIZE=2]Adaptibility (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Aftermath (not really useful)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Air Lock (no need for another CaP to have this)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Anger Point (possible though not really useful so no for me)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Anticipation (lol not useful)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Arena Trap (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Chlorophyll (nope)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Cloud Nine (no need for another CaP to get something like this)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Color Change (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Compound Eyes (possible but a CaP already has it, I like to be different =D)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Cute Charm (possible, though it isn't really cute..)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Damp (possible, though not too useful since it resists SD / explosion anyway)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Download (not a computer thingy)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Drizzle (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Drought (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Dry Skin (has rocky skin I guess but I just don't see it)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Early Bird (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Effect Spore (no spores to speak of)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Filter (possible I guess)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Flash Fire (no lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Flower Gift (no flower)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Forecast (don't see this forecasting the weather while it is burrowing through the ground lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Forewarn (useless like anticipation)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Frisk (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Heatproof (pointless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Honey Gather (lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Huge Power (let's not go there)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Hyper Cutter (pointless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ice Body (doesn't have an icy body...)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Immunity (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Insomnia (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Iron Fist (possible though useless so no for me)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Keen Eye (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Klutz (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Leaf Guard (no leaves)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Limber (it doesn't look limber)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Liquid Ooze (no liquid ooze lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Magic Guard (let's keep this solely on Clefable)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Marvel Scale (hmm interesting, I'll go with possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Minus (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Motor Drive (no electricity to speak of)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]No Guard (let's keep this solely on Machamp)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Normalize (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Oblivious (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Own Tempo (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pickup (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Plus (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Poison Heal (doesn't make sense)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Poison Point (well it does have pointy rocks...so possible I guess)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pure Power (let's not go there)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Quick Feet (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rain Dish (uhhh no lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Reckless (possible though really useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rivalry (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rough Skin (not too useful)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Run Away (lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sand Veil (let's not go here lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Scrappy (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shadow Tag (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shield Dust (I guess rocks can grind and make sand for dusty stuff...so possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Simple (let's keep this on Bibarel)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Skill Link (really only useful for one move)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Slow Start (regigigas)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sniper (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Snow Cloak (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Snow Warning (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Solar Power (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Soundproof (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Speed Boost (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Stall (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Steadfast (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Stench (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sticky Hold (nothing really sticky here)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Storm Drain (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Super Luck (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Swarm (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Tangled Feet (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Technician (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Thick Fat (no fat)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Tinted Lens (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Torrent (nope, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Trace (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Truant (lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Unaware (let's keep this on bibarel)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Unburden (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Vital Spirit (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Volt Absorb (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Water Absorb (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Water Veil (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]White Smoke (no smoke)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Wonder Guard (no lol)[/SIZE]

Alright, I then made two smaller lists with questionable abilities and decent ones:

Questionable: (aftermath, Air Lock, Anger Point, Cloud Nine, Compound Eyes, Cute Charm, Filter, Iron Fist, Keen Eye, Reckless, Rivalry, Rough Skin, Skill Link, Tangled Feet)

Decent possibilities: (Adaptibility, Arena Trap, Color Change, Early Bird, Frisk, Immunity, Insomnia, Klutz, Marvel Scale, Oblivious, Own Tempo, Quick Feet, Scrappy, Shield Dust, Sniper, Soundproof, Speed Boost, Steadfast, Super Luck, Technician, Tinted Lens, Trace, Unburden, Vital Spirit)

Out of the ones in the decent possibilities, I would rather no Color Change, Frisk, Oblivious, Own Tempo, Shield Dust, Soundproof, Arena Trap or Speed Boost . The first 6 because I don't think they are too useful, and no Speed Boost or Arena Trap because I think they are too useful, lol.

That would make my personal list of abilities to consider (hopefully final this time lol):

Adaptibility, Early Bird, Immunity, Insomnia, Klutz, Marvel Scale, Quick Feet, Scrappy, Sniper, Steadfast, Super Luck, Technician, Tinted Lens, Trace, Unburden, Vital Spirit
 
Does anyone think Aftermath could have any meaningful impact on gameplay? No good OU pokes have it. It might be interesting on a fast pokemon like this. It's fast enough to get a hit on everything. If that hit doesn't do the job, then the Aftermath could (assuming it gets hit). Also, since this pokemon has paper defenses -- it might be a reason to switch this pokemon out at low health, instead of leaving it in to sacrifice. Even a low health Aftermath pokemon could be useful later in the game to knock 25% off something else.

Anyone having trouble with the flavor of Aftermath, can think of it as the shrapnel-like effect of this energized pile of pebbles exploding when this pokeman dies.
 
No I like the flavour of the aftermath. It does look like it could leave an aftermath, like skantank does? I really like that Idea, although I do also like Levitate, Limber and possibly unburden. I'd like to see something in OU make good use of Unburden
 
I've come up with a really cool way of looking at Tinted Lens.

Most special sweepers have some sort of boosting move, right? Like Syclant, Azelf, and Porygon-Z ... They all have Tail Glow/Nasty Plot. Failing that, (Alakazam, Jirachi, Mismagius,) they at least have Calm Mind. But with this thing being decidedly un-Psychic type, I don't really think that those moves would be appropriate, and besides, I've heard many people mention that this thing probably won't be getting any boosting moves (besides Agility / Rock Polish). In a sense, it would only "Break the Mold" even more: For how many Special sweepers get by without even boosting their Special Attack first?

So if it's not getting those moves, what's it going to use in place of them? What Tinted Lens does is double the power of moves ... on Pokemon that are resistant to them. What is the purpose of a boosting move but to make sure every single one of your moves counts, and gets a OHKO? Well, Tinted Lens, in a sense, would do just that. It would stand in the place, in a sense, of boosting moves, and help this thing tear up the metagame in as sick of a moldbreaking way as possible.

And people have already said why Technician would be awesome. Thusly, I am in full support of a Technician / Tinted Lens ticket. :D
 
Of the abilities listed by A-Ron, the ones I can see this guy having comfortable are Sniper, Trace, Unburden, and Insomnia. Tinted Lens, Tech and Adaptability is a coo second, but no Magnet Pull? This guy is basically a bunch of rocks being held together by magnetism, Magnet Pull make soo much sense on something like that D:

DougJustDoug said:
Anyone having trouble with the flavor of Aftermath, can think of it as the shrapnel-like effect of this energized pile of pebbles exploding when this pokeman dies.
Click to expand...
No...no problems with Aftermath in terms of flavor. I already pictured it doing something like that when biting the dust so to speak. Aftermath would be a good ability for our sweeper.
 
Although, I gotta say, Aftermath does sound pretty awesome. If this thing could have three abilities, Technician / Tinted Lens / Aftermath would pretty much make mah life.
 
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