CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 9 - Art Poll 2

Which submission should we use for our art?


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I'm voting for KoA, out of all the ones I voted for previously, I believe his design fits criteria the most (it's bulky, powerful, staticky (if that's a word), and has medium speed, not sure about shield dust but neither was I sure about the others) and I happen to like my snakes
 
I have never in my life felt so much uneasiness when it comes to choosing a picture. With Keishinkae gone, my own three choices was Regi DS, Doug, and Cyzir. Now all three of them deserve a chance to win it, but after a few moments I voted for Doug because damnit he deserved it the more.

For seven straight project in a row he tried his hardest to make wonderful Pokemon design. Within those same projects, he lose the competition because people couldn't handle his creativity, struck on old stereotype when it came to appearances, or other trivial things. The last one (CAP7) still left me a bitter taste in my mouth as Doug was literally cheated out of would-be first time victory by selfish voters. Even when he finally makes it in the big leauge, some douchbag(es) manage to rob that guy of his prize. So to put an end on this rant, I give Doug all my support and hope this time he gets his just desserts.
 
I have never in my life felt so much uneasiness when it comes to choosing a picture. With Keishinkae gone, my own three choices was Regi DS, Doug, and Cyzir. Now all three of them deserve a chance to win it, but after a few moments I voted for Doug because damnit he deserved it the more.

For seven straight project in a row he tried his hardest to make wonderful Pokemon design. Within those same projects, he lose the competition because people couldn't handle his creativity, struck on old stereotype when it came to appearances, or other trivial things. The last one (CAP7) still left me a bitter taste in my mouth as Doug was literally cheated out of would-be first time victory by selfish voters. Even when he finally makes it in the big leauge, some douchbag(es) manage to rob that guy of his prize. So to put an end on this rant, I give Doug all my support and hope this time he gets his just desserts.
This is terrible logic. How much Doug has done in other areas should in no way play into your decision on what is the most fitting art. If it does, you are voting in a popularity contest, not an art poll. People find other art to be better or more fitting, and so they vote for other art. He has yet to win because he has yet to submit the best piece. This is the only thing that matters.
 
Props to everyone who entered, there were a lot of awesome choices to choose from!

In the end, however, Cartoons! design fits the concept best, and I feel it has a lot of great personality too. So it has my vote.
 
@Starkclamp: He couldn't decide on what decisions he had left, so he decided on an artist, I can't blame him for that =/

Honestly I didn't think I'd make it to this, but god damn I'm glad I did...

Hoping mine wins but I have my doubts ;_;
 
This is terrible logic. How much Doug has done in other areas should in no way play into your decision on what is the most fitting art. If it does, you are voting in a popularity contest, not an art poll. People find other art to be better or more fitting, and so they vote for other art. He has yet to win because he has yet to submit the best piece. This is the only thing that matters.
It's not like voting for popularity really matters. It's all flavor anyways. Why not give a hard working member of the CAP community a little chance for some stardom? If three or four designs are really close quality wise why not pick just because you think the person deserves it?
 
This is terrible logic. How much Doug has done in other areas should in no way play into your decision on what is the most fitting art. If it does, you are voting in a popularity contest, not an art poll. People find other art to be better or more fitting, and so they vote for other art. He has yet to win because he has yet to submit the best piece. This is the only thing that matters.
And what is most fitting atm? I like to know what you considered most fitting for this project. Is it that your overall appearance is based around your stats because I personally believe that BS. You shouldn't based your entire reason on voting from a stereotypes that's just as bad as voting for someone based on popularity or something. Losing because they was a better submission in terms of quality (subjective matter in within itself) is understandable, but saying that someone lose because he/she didn't want to follow some meaningless stereotype(s) is messed-up.

@Starkclamp: He couldn't decide on what decisions he had left, so he decided on an artist, I can't blame him for that =/
Somewhat like that. The three I mention were so close enough in terms of favorites that I just went with the person that stuck out the most with me.
 
It's not like voting for popularity really matters. It's all flavor anyways. Why not give a hard working member of the CAP community a little chance for some stardom? If three or four designs are really close quality wise why not pick just because you think the person deserves it?
You say it's all flavor, but flavor is still important. If it wasn't, then this entire thing could just be skipped and CAP could move on faster. I wouldn't trivialize even a single portion of CAP. I look at Doug's design, and I just think, "Oh, this is bland... It's a serpent sort of dragon. I guess I've seen that before." And then the next one down is ixfalia's which is also serpentine but feels like it has much better ornamentation, so I would vote for it instead, for doing something kind of overdone but bringing a new sort of influence to it. Doug already has enough stardom, doesn't he? He runs the damn server. That's pretty much enough.
 

Calad

Hero of the Blue Flames
is an Artist Alumnus
Voting for Cyzir's submission.

I'm not voting for the person behind the art [If I apply that concept, I wouldn't vote for Cyzir because he has won a previous Art Poll (Syclant, I guess)].
I'm voting for the most original submission, IMO.
There are really cool submission here, but, there is two stereotypes here: "The Bulky" and "the Serpent". Cyzyr's Cloudmon is the most different submission, and mix perfectly the "cuteness" and the "badass-ery" [Is that word correct? n_nU].
 
That and he's at least won a sprite poll *COUGH COUGH*

But starkclamp, GT's reasoning for voting doug's is perfectly viable, if he liked all of those designs equally, then he has to have some method of choosing a design, may as well be dependant on the artist

(Lol Caladbolg, I'd say that's correct, seeing as how I used that exact same reasoning for cyzirs design somewhere around here)
 
I agree with Aty. All GT is doing is voting for the art he likes the most and who he thinks deserve to win. I don't see why you had to start an pointless argument here StarkClamp.
 
You say it's all flavor, but flavor is still important. If it wasn't, then this entire thing could just be skipped and CAP could move on faster. I wouldn't trivialize even a single portion of CAP. I look at Doug's design, and I just think, "Oh, this is bland... It's a serpent sort of dragon. I guess I've seen that before." And then the next one down is ixfalia's which is also serpentine but feels like it has much better ornamentation, so I would vote for it instead, for doing something kind of overdone but bringing a new sort of influence to it. Doug already has enough stardom, doesn't he? He runs the damn server. That's pretty much enough.
The point is that flavor isn't important. Not one bit. The only point to the art submission is to have a little fun. CAP could go on without sprites or art. Hel you could even argue that it could go unnamed. So you don't like his design, and you don't think he needs to win. Thats fine. No point arguing about it. Because it's for fun it's not worth making a big deal about friend votes, or noob votes or any other reasoning for voting.
 
Voting for CyzirVisheen. His is so good that Olie voted for it twice!



(it's just some display glitch, it doesn't affect the vote totals)
 

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
The point is that flavor isn't important. Not one bit. The only point to the art submission is to have a little fun. CAP could go on without sprites or art. Hel you could even argue that it could go unnamed. So you don't like his design, and you don't think he needs to win. Thats fine. No point arguing about it. Because it's for fun it's not worth making a big deal about friend votes, or noob votes or any other reasoning for voting.
Flavor serves its own purpose within CAP. The art poll does tend to draw in more voters than any other CAP poll. It's the cool faces that we can attach to this bundle of stats, typing, and so on that help bring people into CAP. So that's worth something. Besides, I just can't keep staring at Missingno. :S

Anyhow, Cartoons!' smug fat dragon. Looks badass, no?
 
Flavor serves its own purpose within CAP. The art poll does tend to draw in more voters than any other CAP poll. It's the cool faces that we can attach to this bundle of stats, typing, and so on that help bring people into CAP. So that's worth something. Besides, I just can't keep staring at Missingno. :S

Anyhow, Cartoons!' smug fat dragon. Looks badass, no?
I'm not saying the art is worthless. It's one of my favorite parts, but I just don't think it's something that people should get worked up about if someone decides to vote baised on something other than the arts merit. Besides no matter what one person uses as voting criteria it's not too likely that a design will win by one vote.
 

Korski

Distilled, 80 proof
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Please read this all the way through. I think it includes things that many voters aren't considering (or at least aren't showing consideration for in their voting explanations). No offense to anyone and everyone who did vote based on these criteria, but I think a lot of people are neglecting some key issues. And no offense to any of the artists; most of these are better designs than existing pokemon.

I based my vote off the final stat spread of CAP 8, as well as this so-called "neglected ability" idea that seems to have devolved into an afterthought (resurfacing momentarily as an argument for no secondary ability). Only two of these submissions look like they can run Shield Dust and Static: Atyroki and CyzirVisheen.

Dustox and Venemoth have Shield Dust because they appear to have a way of dispelling dust into the air around them via their wings. This is tough for a non-bug or poison pokemon to do, so we'll have to try really hard to make it visually possible (creating pokemon isn't just about new typing and stats. The matching picture makes the escapism part fun, too). That being said, I voted for Atyroki.

Atyroki's design is not only a fresh course for CAP (it destroys everything you've ever known about electric pokemon), being cute and whatnot, but it also fits the stat spread perfectly (appearance-wise) and has the fluffy aspect that makes Shield Dust obvious and makes Static suddenly a very literal ability, more so even than the current pokemon with Static. I mean, who doesn't think of shuffling their socks against the carpet then zapping someone when they see that fluff? That's right. No one.

Cyzir's electric Cerberus doesn't really look like it can run Static because, since it's made out of clouds and lightning, it doesn't even look like it can be hit by physical attacks, let alone boast a base 118 defense stat. Even Altaria and the Ghosts have some semblance of physical-ness about them, so unless there's something I'm missing and there is something physically present (like, under the clouds or something) with this design, I don't see it working.

If I were to consider only what I think looks like the coolest electric/dragon, it would be Cartoons!'s by far (great work, btw); however, I could never see it being able to pull off Shield Dust or having a base 60 Attack (see Here and Here for examples of this kind of immense physical power). Regi DS's, Wyverii's, and pkmn-taicho321's also look like capable or even primarily physical attackers, so I couldn't see them working.

KoA's is a cool electric-gyarados thing, but I can't see it running Shield Dust out of its beard, and it also looks physical (similar to Gyarados).

DJD's looks super awesome and would have fit a fast, special sweeper-type pokemon perfectly, but it doesn't really look physically bulky at all. And don't say Celebi makes this point null. It's the Gen 2 small, cute 100s stats legendary pokemon (see also: Mew, Jirachi, and Shaymin), so its stats can be and are completely unrelated to its appearance. Every other pokemon fits its stats and abilities, appearance-wise, and DJD's design simply does not fit these stats. Nor does it have a visible way to pull off Shield Dust.

Ixfalia's is also really cool, but again, I don't see Shield Dust or it being particularly defensive. Same story with Zantimonious.

Basically, this pokemon's design has to tie in perfectly with everything already established. It has to look like the pokemon we've created, and Atyroki's does that. It's got electric/dragon down. It looks defensively biased with its fat-ish, non-threatening appearance. It looks like a special attacker with its lack of fists/fangs/whatever. It looks slow (but not that slow), so, coupled with the previous two reasons, it can conceivably run 108/60/118/112/70/80 stats. Finally, it looks like it can conceivably have Shield Dust and Static as abilities thanks to its fluffy cloudy stuff. It's like it was meant to be.

Please don't make a choice based on what looks awesome or is drawn the best. This pokemon has to fit its description.
 
I think this poll was rather easy, actually. Not because of a lack of good, or excellent pieces of art, but because one clearly stood out in terms of creativity, and at the same time truly feels like a Pokémon. That one is CyzizVisheens. It's a completely different design compared to all the other dragon and lizard stuff, and one that brings something new into the game, which is exactly what I want in a new Pokémon, whether it's a real Pokémon or a CAP. The color scheme is also fantastic and very easy on the eye.

In terms of abilities and stats, I can easily see this one run the results from previous polls. It has a big body, which in my opinion looks like a cloud, but at the same time I get the feeling that hitting it would probably rather feel like punching a big ball of fluffy wool, hence rather defensive.

And being a thundercloud of sorts, it would probably create a rather strong electric, or magnetic, field which could easily repel Spores, Powders and the like, like Shield Dust does, or for the matter paralyze you if you get close enough to try to hit it physically, like Static would do. So it would clearly be weaker to long distance Special attacks. Having this advantage, it would probably also resort to attacking with Special attacks itself, and avoid moving around too much to get close and attack physically. All this makes the Stat-spread fit excellently.

Lastly, and most importantly, it fits right into the current total Pokémon roster, without looking one bit off.
 
My votes! All of them have made it to the next poll. Hurray!

Hm, well naturally I've grown a soft spot for Cartoons! and that's why, I have to pick his again.

I can understand GT's reasons for voting DJD and in that sense, he does deserve it. However, what I think is that, even though DJD's artwork is definitely quality, heck all of them are, would an artist like it if his or her submission been chosen for other reasons than it being, according to the community, the best?

admiral_korski, shield dust can always be renamed for flavour reasons. And as for the 60 attack, well I don't have an argument for KoA, sadly, however, for the others I do:

Cyzir's for one, you could see the cloud as a cloud, but also as wool, really thick and thight layers of it cushioning the actual body from any physical offence. The wool can be pretty damn static too (haimareep)

Cartoons! dragon is fat. What if all the fat is actually weighing him down without the muscle to back up for it? W/o the speed or strength to support it, weight becomes a lot less useful on the attacking side of physical combat.

DJD's might just be very flexible. Like a snake. No spine. And as for another example, say... Flans from the Final Fantasy series. Seriously, they're not really bulky, but their defences are through the roof. You don't need shields, armour or a lot of protection if your body is resistent without these already.

Plus a lot of animals have body-parts just for show. Think Masquerain taken a bit further. DJD's sleek enough, but try seeing it running on the ground. Yeah... Not as much? Or maybe its long body hurts its reaction time. I have no idea. But its all possible.

Would say more but I don't like keeping my pc on during a prolonged absence, may or may not edit this later.
 
Please read this all the way through. I think it includes things that many voters aren't considering (or at least aren't showing consideration for in their voting explanations). No offense to anyone and everyone who did vote based on these criteria, but I think a lot of people are neglecting some key issues. And no offense to any of the artists; most of these are better designs than existing pokemon.

I based my vote off the final stat spread of CAP 8, as well as this so-called "neglected ability" idea that seems to have devolved into an afterthought
Woah, I'm sure nobody considered this at all (especially the artists that drew these with that knowledge in hand). And about the bold; what key issues? It's art, there really is no reasoning outside of "I like it," so I hope you don't believe you're going to sway people or honestly think people are at fault for choosing based on that. So you think Atyroki's fits the bill based on your criteria; well I personally hate that submission (no offense intended at all to Atyroki, the cute just doesn't appeal), so am I at fault for not voting for it? No. In fact I think a lot of your own reasoning is pretty bad (Cyzir's doesn't look like it could run static but Atyroki's does? KoA's looks physical because of Gyarados but you're clearly ignoring Milotic?). There really is no valid reasoning behind ANY votes because it is completely subjective, so don't try to pass your judgement off as "logical" or "right."


Voted for Doug, for much of the same reasons as GT. It was really hard to decide, so I ultimately chose between Wyverii (who I thought would be doing much, MUCH better) and Doug.
 
Zant, I honestly think that your first piece of artwork looks better then the current pose you have him in :(
Agreeing with this, still voted for Zantimonius' though, it is so... different from the others. I love it's style <3

EDIT: I was gonna originaly vote for Cartoons, but then Zant entered the fray with his original piece, and I was enchanted by it's colors and vires and originality, even though it doesn't have the same color scheme anymore, it is still as original as before, so it got my vote.
 

Korski

Distilled, 80 proof
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by Fat Bird
admiral_korski, shield dust can always be renamed for flavour reasons. And as for the 60 attack, well I don't have an argument for KoA, sadly, however, for the others I do:

Cyzir's for one, you could see the cloud as a cloud, but also as wool, really thick and thight layers of it cushioning the actual body from any physical offence. The wool can be pretty damn static too (haimareep)

Cartoons! dragon is fat. What if all the fat is actually weighing him down without the muscle to back up for it? W/o the speed or strength to support it, weight becomes a lot less useful on the attacking side of physical combat.

DJD's might just be very flexible. Like a snake. No spine. And as for another example, say... Flans from the Final Fantasy series. Seriously, they're not really bulky, but their defences are through the roof. You don't need shields, armour or a lot of protection if your body is resistent without these already.

Plus a lot of animals have body-parts just for show. Think Masquerain taken a bit further. DJD's sleek enough, but try seeing it running on the ground. Yeah... Not as much? Or maybe its long body hurts its reaction time. I have no idea. But its all possible.
Yes, anything is possible to explain away certain problems with these designs. The issue with that is that we'd have to find a way to get that explanation across (via pokedex entry at best) so that the pokemon makes sense when it all comes together. A lot of these explanations are "what if" prospects, and I know you don't have the answers and don't know the artists' intents, but you do hit an important idea that some of these designs do require a lot of extra explanation to fit with the stat spread. I think for a project like this to be successful, it has to make sense to someone with only a menial understanding of pokemon. You can't answer "why is this fat pokemon so fast?" or "why is this big pokemon so weak?" with "Just because." If a pokemon looks fat and slow, then it should be fat and slow. If it looks sleek and fast, it should be sleek and fast. The world of pokemon does not really offer a lot of space to give the kinds of explanations these designs need to look accurate. That's why almost all other pokemon have stats that make sense compared to the physical build of the pokemon.

But anyway, I'll buy the ability renaming part, but your reasonings here for these pokemon matching the stat spread don't seem to work (I'm not attacking you or anything, and thanks for answering my post, but I just want to get across how important I think it is that this CAP visually corresponds to its stats and abilities and not just its typing).

If Cyzir's cloud is made of wool, then what's the rest of its body made of? Static electricity? Glowing scales or some kind of bioluminescent skin? There are also two colors of this stuff, which confuses me. I don't know, it's really about personal preference, I guess. Atyroki's just seems more original and gutsy to me. I would have more fun wasting away teams with that innocent-looking fuzzball than Cyzir's menacing Cerberus (sorry for the repeat comparison; I just can't get past it).

The "fat pokemon with no muscles" idea for Cartoons!'s design would probably render it with Snorlax-like speed or worse, so while the attack stat could line up under that assumption (Snorlax, with all its fat and laziness, still manages 110 attack), the speed would not be 80. I just don't think Cartoons!'s design will fit a spread with 60 attack, ever, which sucks because otherwise it's glorious, and I know he had his idea solidified before the final stat spread was chosen.

Regarding DJD's design: snakes do have spines. But anyway, I'm not familiar with the Final Fantasy series, so I'll assume what you said is true about "flans." I'm sorry, but it looks too aerodynamic to be a ground-dweller, and I can't help but think that that's the intent with the art:

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug
it allows the dragon to electrolevitate (ie. Magnet Rise), which is its preferred means of movement. By undulating its body while generating a magnetic levitation field, this dragon is able to "slither" through the air with great speed and agility.
Besides, short limbs =/= slow on land. Look at any lizard. Even alligators hit 30 mph on land. And refer to my first paragraph of this post regarding the defenses. DJD's design also runs into problems with the base 60 attack, as its claws pose an immediate and clearly physical threat way beyond the level of Numel and Spearow (who have the same base stat).

It's basically that insanely low attack stat that's getting in the way of a lot of these designs for me. Sorry, but such a low attack stat means something serious is going wrong on the physical side of this CAP that needs to be addressed in the artwork.
 

Korski

Distilled, 80 proof
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by Fat Veedrock
And about the bold; what key issues? It's art, there really is no reasoning outside of "I like it," so I hope you don't believe you're going to sway people or honestly think people are at fault for choosing based on that.
I actually think you're wrong here. This is art, yes, but it's also connected logically in the viewer's mind to everything else about the pokemon. I'll give you an example: say you're watching a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger and he's all buff and super strong and he's struggling to tear a piece of paper in two. Not believable, right? It kind of takes you out of the movie for a bit and you feel disappointed because the character is inconsistent. That's what's going on when a pokemon with big sharp claws or big strong arms or big sharp teeth has a terrible base 60 attack or when a pokemon that looks streamlined and aerodynamic and better suited for speed than anything has a mediocre base 80 speed. So it's more than "I like it," it's "I believe it." And I believe that Atyroki's design has those stats. That's all. I'm not faulting anybody for voting differently. I just think some people don't care whether this pokemon ends up being believable or not. I'm sorry my wording came off so harshly to you. I really wasn't trying to upset anyone or get the most sarcastic opening line to a response ever.

The reason I thought Cyzir's couldn't run Static is because his pokemon looks like a thundercloud with animate lightning bolts coming out of it to form a body (i.e. not in any way succeptible to the physical hits that would activate Static because none of it is actually solid). I have since been corrected (maybe?) that the cloud is wool and the yellow and blue parts are something else, so I tentatively retract the statement.

And KoA's does remind me of Gyarados, not Milotic. I didn't overlook Milotic, I just knew not to make the comparison. This guy's got sharp, aggressive lines on him and a big, sharp-looking jaw and a pointed tail. None of that screams special attacker to me, rather, quite the opposite.
There really is no valid reasoning behind ANY votes because it is completely subjective, so don't try to pass your judgement off as "logical" or "right."
I would say that, since voting is subjective, there is valid reasoning behind all votes, so I will try to pass my judgment off as logical and right, because it is, to me. Maybe I was hoping to convince a few others to follow my line of thought. Is that so wrong? And don't try to pass your rebuttal off as expertise or some kind of self-righteous defense of the affronted. I think we should keep this mature. Thanks.
 
It kind of takes you out of the movie for a bit and you feel disappointed because the character is inconsistent.
But, we're not watching a movie where something like that is important, we're playing competitive pokemon. In competitive pokemon, the only thing that matters is performance, so it's more linear with sports than movies. Consistancy or "making sense" (logic in Pokemon?) doesn't affect performance, so it isn't needed. Not having it won't detract from its use or appeal. Using Infernape/Blaziken as an example, I love Blaziken a lot more, but I'm not going to use it because Infernape is better. All other personal and aesthetic reasoning has no bearing on this, just like "it doesn't make sense" won't detract from CAP8's appeal as long as it can perform. No competitive player will go "this isn't logical, I will not use it."
 
Explain why Venusaur, a big fat dinosaur with an overgrowth on its back has the same speed-stat as Blaziken by just using the image.

I think that sticking to those very basic 'laws' greatly limits the artists and we wouldn't have seen near the amount and quality of artwork if it wasn't left open to interpretation. IMO, the art should not be designed around the stat-spread, as long as it fits it. Perhaps with a little tailoring here and a little explanation there, but allowing more freedom will result into more diversity, something that should be encouraged if you ask me.

Now this is nothing against Atyroki, as if I remember correctly, he was second on my own list. And I think most arguments especially in favour of his artwork are valid, just the ones against those of other artists bother me.

Cyzir's design... Well example 'Mareep' suffices. Besides, how come that a gust of wind has 40 base power? Or that peck does twice the damage against a bug-type that scratch does. You're taking it way too far on the technical side.

As for Cartoons! The legs and lower body, perhaphs? Unless you're going to give it hi-jump kick or w/e, it shouldn't really matter, should it? Well, OK, body slam. But that's it.

Sorry about the snake-thing, mistake on my part.

A crocodile's limbs are short and the body itself is rather broad and its muscles in there support it greatly. Whereas this dragon has little muscle to support it. In the same way you could say that its muscles do not focus on direct attacking but rather keeping the body in balance, seeing its rather big and all. But to be frankly honest: I don't know, we'd need to ask DJD, I'm sure he has a reason or two.
 
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