jas61292
used substitute
Yeah, I just double checked. My Black version's Emolga did not switch out with Volt Switch after hitting my White version's Drilbur.So I guess it did lie to me.
Yeah, I just double checked. My Black version's Emolga did not switch out with Volt Switch after hitting my White version's Drilbur.So I guess it did lie to me.
The electric damage dealt by Volt Switch is a bad thing for it. Actually, I don't like Volt Switch on it from any position. The electric damage could provide some unreal type coverage, while the ground immunity completely destroys the momentum it's trying to build.*words*
After thinking about it a bit, I kind of agree on Icy Wind. While I still think Thundrus would beat Tomohawk 1v1 even with Icy Wind, slowing Thundrus down allow you to keep momentum on you side even if you lose the individual match up. As such, I think if we want Thundrus as a full counter we should avoid Icy Wind.To focus this discussion a bit further, the million dollar question is which of Tomohawk's proposed counters we consider untouchable--my initial list assumes that Reuniclus, Lati@s, Thundurus and Zapdos should be on that list. The attacking movepool, especially the moves in Pending, should reflect whether or not we want an assortment of other counters and checks--the Grass moves play a significant part in determining whether Jellicent is a counter, the Fire moves affect SpD Skarmory; Volt Switch is here instead of in non-attacking moves 100% because of Gyarados. Volt Switch is basically HP Electric++; few people are likely to use HP Electric just for Gyarados, but if Tomohawk has Volt Switch, it is quite likely to use it fairly often. While in theory Tomohawk handles Gyara just as well with HP Electric as with Volt Switch, in practice Volt Switch would make a big different since it greatly increases the likelihood of Tomohawk actually using an Electric move.
With that in mind, I am especially interested in hearing competitive opinions on Icy Wind--it obviously helps Tomohawk a great deal, but I am concerned that it could totally eliminate Thundurus as a Tomohawk counter.
I think Heat Wave should be allowed, but Flamethrower should not. Heat Wave's lower PP and imperfect accuracy makes it harder to sweep with, while still allowing Tomohawk to take care of Skarmory. That said, can anyone do some calcs to see how much damage Tomohawk's Aura Sphere would do to various builds of Skamory? I think that would be useful information to have as we debate whether a Fire-type move is necessary.I think there's a good case for Flamethrower and Heat Wave to be allowed. Skarm really shouldn't be a good counter for Tomohawk, as nothing kills your momentum like spikes being set up.
I think what swayed me on Hurricane was two things: 1) the 30% confusion chance, and more importantly 2) it can't miss in rainEdit: I changed the status of several moves to reflect the discussion thus far. I'd like to hear more thoughts on Hurricane!
Holy shit. I like that kind of power against Skarmory and Reuniclus since I don't think Tomohawk should allow them to set up Spikes or Trick Room, but 2HKOing Thunderus, Jellicent, and Cresselia and OHKOing Tornadus is a bit ridiculous. I'm kind of doubting Hurricane myself, now.252+ LO Tomohawk (w/ Prankster Roost who wouldn't?):
vs. 252/0 Skarmory: 51.2% - 60.5% (outsped and 2HKO'd)
vs. 4/0 Thunderus: 51.3% - 60.7% (can force out once, can't switch in twice)
vs. 252/0 Reuniclus: 69.3% - 81.6% (outsped and 2HKO'd)
vs. 4/0 Tornadus: 103% - 121.3% (OHKO'd)
vs. 252/0 Jellicent: 60.9% - 71.5% (outsped and 2HOK'd)
vs. 252/252+ Jellicent: 44.1% - 52.2% (outsped and likely 2HKO with SR)
vs. 252/0 Cresselia: 45.9% - 54.3%
I agree with both of these, although in the case of the former I would always run Air Slash instead because I don't like using moves with less than 80% accuracy, so it wouldn't matter. I can only speak for me, though, I'm sure someone would use it if it was included, 120 power is still an attractive prospect.Even so, a 30% chance to completely cede momentum by missing should be enough to see that the move will only serve as a distraction from the concept. And does Rain need another abuser?