Chandelure (Analysis)

Sir Azelf said:
Ive been running a Sub Split set on this thing and it works really great.

Shanderra@Life Orb / Leftovers
6 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split / Hidden Power Fighting

Makes a mockery of Blissey and most other counters really. Great with Spikes/TSpikes support and people often sac a poke just to break the things Sub. Also checks Roobushin rather well as LO Fire Blast does a HELL of alot often KOing with SR + one layer of Spikes. Also gets a a free Sub on crap like Nattorie and Forry lol. The power level is really noticeable over Sub Split Gengar too.

The only things that really causes issues are Heatran and Tyranitar, hence HP Fights slash. I still prefer Pain Split + LO though.

Dunno if this warrants mention, but its definitely a deadly set.
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This DOES warrant a mention. I'd add it to the OP. I've walled WishBliss and WishChan easily with this set. If you're afraid of Sandstorm wearing you down behind a sub then take lefties. Don't keep this in if you can't OHKO faster pokemon or 2HKO slower pokemon (although that should go without saying).
 
Why is everything Timid? Does Chandelure outrun anything notable with it as opposed to Modest? I think the 10% power boost is worth at a slight mention or at least explain why Timid nature is superior.
 
a) Please fix your grammar, etc. "Flamethrower adds a highly good fire type STAB attack, this can hit really hard and this could be used in replacement for Overheat or Fire Blast" ; "Toxic over Will-o-Wisp is an option along with always"

b) Calm Mind should be Energy Ball | Hidden Power [Fighting] / Shadow Ball / Fire Blast | Flamethrower / Calm Mind @ Leftovers / Life Orb. It gets worn down too easily if it has LO, but the power kick is truly excellent. Energy Ball gives you more power vs. Water-types, and likewise with Hidden Power Fighting and Tyranitar and Heatran.

c) Mentioning this again, but please clean this up ><
 
Attemping to revive this thread....Yeah SubSplit deserves a mention.
Also, how about Hex or Will-O-Wisp? They work great toghether, I know he is not the best poke to be Will-O-Wisping things, but still, with proper team support you could easily run Hex over shadow ball.....As it does hists quite hard, Resting pokes....also say hello to toxic spikes!
 
I think psychic should have mention somewhere. It does an exellent job at killing of many fighting types, I can't tell you how many Conkeldurr I have killed of with thing when I used psychic. A main option? Perhaps not, but it is pretty decent.
 
1. e4 d6 said:
I think psychic should have mention somewhere. It does an exellent job at killing of many fighting types, I can't tell you how many Conkeldurr I have killed of with thing when I used psychic. A main option? Perhaps not, but it is pretty decent.
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Fighting types take equal or more damage from STAB Fire Blast with the exceptions of Keldeo and Terrakion, neither of which you should be staying in on and both of which are hit by Energy Ball for decent power.
 
Not going to lie, I did not know that. Well then place it in there and explain why you shouldn't use it then, for that reason. Or else more will fall into the hole.
 
I'm not very supportive of Substitute + Activation Berry sets on Chandelure this generation. The battlefield is rather nasty to Chandelure without support, because it's extremely vunerable to all the entry hazards, Sandstorm, and additional damage from the opponent itself. Priority is a problem as well, as Scizor (if Chandelure is at <25%) and Azumarill defeat you at your Petaya Berry range. I can see merit in adding Nitro Charge on an offensive set, but Substitute is a bit extraneous without the help of support.

As for the analysis, you may have to brush up on it a bit. The analysis as of right now is a tad terse. Overall, the analysis is decent, though I think more sets could be in order.
 
In the dw section it says about setting up on electric attacks. That should be removed as it doesn't resist electric.
 
badalcristiano said:
609_shandera_front_norm.png

Shandera
==================================
Status: Quality Control
==================================

[Overview]
<p>Shandera the chandelier is the first of its kind in terms of typing of Fire and Ghost. Its low speed makes it vulnerable to revenge killing, though it can succesfully pull off several different kinds of roles, as we will explore below.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Energy Ball
move 2: Fire Blast/Overheat
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Set Comments
<p>To add to Shandera's already high Special Attack, the Choice Specs along with the Special Attack EVs make it a very strong Special Attacker and can sweep almost anything. The Choice Specs and Special Attack EVs along with Shandera's already high Special Attack allow it to effectively sweep most pokemon. Fire Blast along with Shadow Ball are two highly very (Wording seems awkward. Might just be me though.) powerful attacks that will be very effective in countering several threats. Energy Ball is also is very effective in countering the Water type Pokémon that can be a major threat to Shandera which may be countered by Energy Ball. Hidden Power fighting also adds to the type coverage. This can revenge kill many below 100 Base speed Pokémon pokemon with base speeds' below 100. Flash Fire will help it a lot to sweep as then it will almost become unstoppable after that aids in its ability to sweep and absorb fire attacks for it's teammates. </p>
​
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​

Would like to do more but unfortunately im pressed for time. Just a few suggestions. Also if im not mistaken nature and item go before ev spread.
 
badalcristiano said:

Additional Comments
<p>Flamethrower adds a highly good fire type STAB attack, this can hit really hard and this could can be used in replacement for instead of Overheat or Fire Blast, but the latter two are much more effective and thus are are thus recommended over Flamethrower. Max Speed and Special Attack are recommended to enhance Shandera's sweeping prowess. Weakness to all 3 Layers is horrible, therefore you must be very cautious when switching Shandera in. Being susceptible to all 3 forms of entry hazards as well as being weak to Stealth Rocks means that without Rapid Spin support Shandera's ability to switch in is limited. Shandera enjoys tends to lure Water Pokemon out, so Grass types Pokemon like such as Birijion, Jaroda, and Nattorei are good teammates, synergize well with Shandera who can in turn absorb fire attacks for them. the latter can also set Layers so Shandera KOs much more easily. Nattorei in particular functions well with Shandera with the ability to lay entry hazards which in turn allow Shandera to sweep more efficiently. A Rapid Spinner is really useful since Shandera is very weak to the layers and thus a rapid spinner can make Shandera's job easier as it won't loose large amounts of HP to the layers. As mentioned previously Shandera's vulnerability to entry hazards should not be ignored. With a 2x weakness to Stealth Rocks, Rapid Spin support is essential to the longevity of Shandera. Special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax will absolutely check Shandera, thus a fighting type teammate such as Machamp will be highly appreciated is recommended to eliminate such threats.</p>


[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Substitute/Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Fire Blast/Flamethrower
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire
evs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
nature: Timid

Set Comments
<p> This set uses Shandera's high Special Attack to increase its power by utilizes Calm Mind to increase Shandera's already impressive base 145 Special Attack to ridiculous levels and then sweep. This set is one of the most effective ones for Shandera as it can fulfill this role completely. (Kinda redundant IMO. I don't think it would be listed here if it didn't.) Fire Blast coupled with Shadow Ball gives quite offers very (Again, pardon if its nitpicking. Just reads a tad awkwardly to me) good type coverage. If Substitute is set up on a switch, then it allows Shandera to get a couple of Calm Minds at the least, which will boost Shandera's already high base 145 Special Attack stats to even higher. This will ensure a nice sweep to a couple of Pokémon at the least. Substitute protects Shandera from status and the like while simultaneously providing cover as it sets up. Shandera's type makes it unique since, not many Pokémon carry moves that can kill a Ghost/Fire type, especially if it is relatively bulky as it is, this will cause opponents to switch, allowing you to set up Substitute and then Calm Mind. unique typing and natural bulk allow it many opportunities to switch in relatively unharmed and then proceed to set up for a sweep.</p>

Additional Comments
<p>The EV spread allows it Shandera to take on a highly offensive role, by boosting its base 145 Special Attack and making it a severe threat as it is thus rendering it an even greater force to be reckoned with offensively. The Speed EVs help it complete its role as a sweeper serve to maximize its abilities as a sweeper. Hidden Power Ground can be an option to further increase type coverage and help it sweep a wider range of Pokémon used instead of substitute should you not feel it necessary or simply prefer the added type coverage. A stall team that needs a wall breaker will benefit from Shandera's presence. Good teammates will include Nattorei, Skarmory and Forretress. A strong Ground, Water, Dark or Ghost move will hurt Shandera if not outright KO it, so because of this Heatran, Tyranitar, Empoleon, Sazandora, and Futachimaru can take it on well all respectively offer superb defensive coverage in regards to the aforementioned types. It should be noted that Sazandora offers especially good synergy with Shandera by resisting all of Shandera's weaknesses with the exception of ground to which it is immune. Shandera in turn resists all of Sazandora's weaknesses with the exception of fighting to which it is immune and dragon to which it is neutral. Hidden Power Fighting could be is an viable option for this set as it allows Shandera to hit Heatran, Sazandora, Tyranitar and other Pokémon that may be threats to Shandera which can be taken care off by their weakness to fighting. and any other Pokemon with a Fighting type weakness where it hurts. </p>

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I think the move slots should be adjusted on the CM set. With Flamethrower/Fireblast going before Shadow Ball. The last slot should be Sub/hp ground/hp fighting. and again, nature and ability before EV spread. I was drunk when I typed all of this. Still am lol.
 
Now, hold on Zombid. You should do all your work in one post, and since Chandelure is still in Quality Control and is subject to have it's sets changed, a grammar check really isn't necessary now. One set might be questionable and requires changing, so wait until the Copyediting stage.
 
Yeah my apologies for the second post. I started thinking Id have enough time to do it all but got called in to work. Should have just saved in wordpad for later but was rushing and not thinking. As for posting while in QC I have read the rules in regards to the process of creating an analysis and although I was aware that it would normally be too early I saw that Badass had already requested the grammar and what not be corrected. That along with the fact that Badal is going to be away for a bit led me to believe it would be helpful to at least fix the misspellings as well as reword a few things (got carried away it would seem). Guess I may have misconstrued his instructions. Wont happen again though. Thanks for the tip.
 
I don't know how well this would work in OU, but in Random Battle mode this is an amazing lead set.

name: ChandeLead
move 1: Energy Ball
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Flame Change / HP Fighting
item: Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest
Ability: Flash Fire

What this set lacks in speed, it more than makes up for in raw power, and the ability to surprise opponents. Fire Blast is your most powerful attack overall, Shadow Ball for secondary STAB and to hit Psychics and Ghosts, Energy Ball for coverage versus Water, Rock, and Ground types. If your lead matchup is favorable, and/or you are predicting a switch, you can go for a Flame Charge for the speed boost, then proceed to sweep, or at least inflict major pain to your opponent. With Focus Sash you are almost guaranteed to get an attack off. After a Flame Charge boost you have almost as much speed as the Choice Scarf set (able to outspeed base 115 speed Pokemon who lack a Choice Scarf), and a little bit more attack power, with the freedom to change moves. With a Flash Fire boost, Fire Blast is capable of OHKOing a huge portion of the metagame.

This set also functions effectively as a revenge killer, even against faster Pokemon due to the Focus Sash. You just need to beware of Sandstorm, Hail, and entry hazards. For that reason it's best to use this as a Lead, as you'll lose this set's primary use once the Focus Sash is broken. Rapid Spin support and a way to stop Sandstorm and Hail is also recommended if you are using this outside of the Lead spot. Beware Pokemon with a Priority move that can kill you once your Focus Sash breaks, as well as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow leads. Pursuit users will also try to ruin your day if you try to switch out.

Without HP Fighting you are at the mercy of Pokemon that can resist your move set, most notably Hydreigon and Heatran. However without a Flame Charge boost you might not have the speed to outspeed your opponents (without a Flame Charge boost you are outsped by Positive Nature base 72 speed, and neutral nature 81 speed). It's not recommended you switch Fire Blast out for Overheat, as you'll be forced to switch after one use, and your Focus Sash could potentially break when switching back in due to hazards. Heat Wave is not worth using over Fire Blast, and Flamethrower you will miss out on some OHKOs (and potentially some 2HKOs).
 
Sprocket said:
I don't know how well this would work in OU, but in Random Battle mode this is an amazing lead set.
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This is just an attacker with a Focus Sash. It doesn't work in OU because of Team Preview, because people can just say, "Hey, there's Chandelure, let's lead with something fast/resistant to its attacks." Even if you do succeed with it, all you kill is their lead, while any revenge killer or entry hazard keeps this Chandelure from getting in again.

Any set that kills one Pokemon and maybe gets off another attack or two is going to suffer in a 6v6 format, as well.
 
no Flamecharge + LO Set? I would think something like Flame Charge / Fire Blast / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting would be pretty potent.
 
^like I have suggested above, agreed. It's really hard to stop Chandelure from get-going after it's achieved one Flame Charge boost (which isn't hard to do), and Life Orb paired with 145 base Special Attack is not pretty unless counters and checks have not been eliminated or weakened.
 
Sorry if this has been said before, but in the Dream World section, all you did was talk about how great Shadow Tag is, and it appeared as though you were urging everyone to use it. I'd put in bold, underlined, italicized letters at the top of the DW section that it has not been released and should not be used as it is illegal.
 
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