Conkeldurr

Colonel M said:
Another random thought: Scizor might not be a bad partner. Much like Tyranitar, it takes Psychic crap rather well and has Pursuit (pseudo-STAB if the opponent doesn't switch out) with Technician Bullet Punch to back it up. As far as priority goes, Mach Punch + Bullet Punch should hit the vast majority of the faster Pokemon at least for neutral damage. The only exception is something like Denchura.

Not to mention Scizor can U-turn, which leads to easing Roobushin coming onto the field and what not. Of course, Roobushin doesn't really absorb some of Scizor's problems, so it is a bit one-sided (for example: Scizor hates Heatran. Roobushin handles Heatran? Not so much...). Guess it doesn't really get much better than Tyranitar as a partner despite the loss of Leftovers recovery. Croc works too to an extent since at least it's quick enough.
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Scarf Genosekuto can work in a very similar way like Scizor and can threaten Gliscor, Skarmory and Psychics, Dragons that love to come into Roop easily with his exceptional good coverage.
he isn't as bulky as TTar and Scizor are though, but works great on more offensivly minded teams.
 
Non EQ robushin(quite common lately dunno why) is set up bait to toxicroak especialy in rain. That being said croak is one of the best check to BU shin(at least +1)
 
Toxicroak is also very common on rain teams, so having a ScarfGenosekuto for backup is indeed a good option. A set of U-Turn /Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Explosion or Bug Buzz does well in eliminating physical walls like Gliscor/Skarmory and the like.
 
This is the real deal. I run guts with max attack and with bulk up and a burn status, this reaches 900+attack. This, with mach punch as the main move due to his low spped, drain punch for recovery and rock slide to not get walled by ghosts and flying, this allows me to kill almost anything, seriously denting any physical wall, mainly nattorei,skarm and many others.
 
for the Bulk up set, how about adding Drain punch in? this way, you can still recover, even though you take damage via poison/burn...

I'd suggest the set like this:

Rohp @ Flame Orb
Guts (if available Iron fist @ Lefties)

Drain Punch
Bulk Up
Mach Punch/Stone Edge
Payback

I suggested stone edge over Mach Punch as I'm not sure if Mach/Drain are legal together
 
Dark Pulse said:
for the Bulk up set, how about adding Drain punch in? this way, you can still recover, even though you take damage via poison/burn...

I'd suggest the set like this:

Rohp @ Flame Orb
Guts (if available Iron fist @ Lefties)

Drain Punch
Bulk Up
Mach Punch/Stone Edge
Payback

I suggested stone edge over Mach Punch as I'm not sure if Mach/Drain are legal together
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If you're using Iron Fist, Flame Orb's burn kills your Attack, so Toxic Orb is better if you're going with Iron Fist. I'd rather have Stone Edge over Payback because if Roobushin hits Cofagrigus with Payback (Roobushin naturally outspeeds Cofagrigus), Guts will be replaced by Mummy for as long as Roobushin is out (plus, Stone Edge does as much damage as Payback if Roobushin doesn't go last).
 
PokéMontage said:
You shouldn't be running either status orb if you're going with Iron Fist.
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Missed that part.

Anyway, which is better to use?: Bulk Up Roobushin or SubPunch Roobushin? The current Roobushin set I'm using is SubPunch (shown below), and I'm thinking about changing it to Bulk Up:
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Mach Punch
-Payback/Stone Edge
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 212 HP/252 Atk/44 SpD
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Guts
 
Dark Pulse said:
for the Bulk up set, how about adding Drain punch in?
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Well, that'd be a great idea if it wasn't the overwhelming standard already. I don't think I've ever seen a Roopoushin WITHOUT Drain Punch.

I've never confronted a Subpunch Roopushin. I'm sure it works well, just probably not AS well as Bulk Up. Afterall, the key appeal of the Bulk Up set is the staggering durability coupled with powerful offensive healing.

Anyway if you're hiding behind the Sub I don't think Mach Punch is as necessary. Drain Punch will help you set up a lot more substitutes I'd think.
 
In my experience, bulk up conkeldurr seems to need some pretty decent team support in order to be capable of doing much. Against rain and sun teams for example, he's usually forced out or flat out countered and taken care of by about five pokemon on the team.

It's not exactly plausible to get too many bulk ups in before you get forced out by something on the enemy team. And with low base power moves, you won't be doing all that much damage either. Mach punch is nice, but you need a +1 to take out many important things. Things beyond tyranitar and excadrill that is. And quite frankly, even with drain punch, that awful special defense means that conkeldurr isn't all that hard to take out.

I've had better results with bulk up gallade, and while Gallade isn't a bad pokemon, that is saying something.
 
The higher speed is really an advantage but Conkeldurr is still pretty damn bulky, being a dick by taking your last special attack and Drain Punching Heatran to death from 100% and recovering from 5% to a comfortable half health or so. Fuck.
 
min min said:
The higher speed is really an advantage but Conkeldurr is still pretty damn bulky, being a dick by taking your last special attack and Drain Punching Heatran to death from 100% and recovering from 5% to a comfortable half health or so. Fuck.
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With weather being so common, Conkeldurr will usually find himself taking a sun boosted heatran fire blast. Which means he's not doing anything to heatran outside of a mach punch that doesn't ohko. Maybe I need to switch over to the careful set, but I don't like the damage output on that one before two-three boosts or so.
 
Woah, my opinion of conkeldurr sure has changed since I made this post.

The bulk up set is near useless against any good team in today's metagame and cannot be salvaged as far as I am concerned. Attempting to use it will just end in conkeldurr using bulk up as your opponent switches to a counter or something that can ohko him (which is easy), or using mach punch/drain punch as your opponent laughs at your pitiful low base power attacks and kicks your ass. Base 75 and base 40 STAB attacks? And we seriously make fun of electivire? Even a boosted mach punch has trouble killing things that aren't already dead or crippled, nor will it help against the newfound great king of the OU metagame. If bulk up conk is performing any sweeps, it's because your opponent isn't actually playing the game and quite frankly, niether are you. Your victory was all an illusion. Your opponent has gone home and is laughing with his or her friends about the opponent he just beat who still believed that bulk up conkeldurr was any good.

Don't get me wrong, I am not here solely to bash...in fact I am here to ask a question that I have asked myself several times: Why AREN'T people using subpunch conkeldurr?! Instead of using bulk up when you force those switches, why aren't you simply setting up a substitute and then smashing things in the face with a base 150 STAB attack coming off of base 140 attack power? Payback/Stone edge can now be used to kill those offensive ghost and psychic types (bulk up couldn't get away with using payback very well) and the latias/latios who switched in on the sub will now be out of thier ass. The fourth move can still be mach punch or drain punch if need be.
 
You might just be using it incorrectly. Conkeldurr is a tank, not a setup sweeper. It's slow, vulnerable on the special side, and, let's face it, Mach Punch only has 40 base power. It's not Close Combat, but it is one of the best/strongest priority moves in OU. Don't expect to sweep with it though.

Conkeldurr punches holes in the opponent's team, revenge kills with Mach Punch, and threatens Bulk Up on weaker stuff. I think that it's great in this meta. It's unique, and extremely good at what it does.

Have you ever stopped and questioned why the standard Conkeldurr runs 252 Atk Adamant? If it's a slow bulky Bulk Up sweeper, shouldn't it run 252 HP / 252 SpD careful like Scrafty or Gallade? No!

Those Attack EVs are for Mach Punch. Conk can't always set up, so it needs to hit as hard as possible right off the bat. The Drain Punch + Guts combo is the icing on the cake. You've had those battles before; Conk vs. your Pokemon, which 2HKOes, while it 3HKOes in return. Easy win? No. Drain Punch just heals it all away. You deal 90%, get Drain Punched for a KO, and it's back up to 60%. Conkeldurr's ability to manage its HP and status (self sustaining) is what separates it from those other bulky attackers that nobody seems to use. This factor makes Conkeldurr more durable than it appears to be, and allows it to set up on a higher number of Pokemon. Guts also makes status a liability. Do you really want to use that Will-O-Wisp? A burnt Conk effectively has a Choice Band boost, and can switch moves. If it reaches +1, it can and will sweep your team. 936 Attack with one turn of setup is terrifying.

It threatens Tyranitar and Terrakion as well, that's pretty useful.
 
I have never understood why no one has used Choice Band Conkledurr, it sure has fallen from grace now that Excadrill is gone.

It is a liability if the opponent runs a Ghost type, but seeing as how Jellicent and Gengar are the only ones in OU it isn't much of a problem.

I have found there are a couple of routes to take with Choice Band depending on what you want your main STAB attack to be. Drain Punch gives you really good longevity, but not a hair-raising amount of power. Hammer Arm provides a really powerful STAB attack and can 2HKO Skarmory, it is the middle ground between longevity and power. I've used CB Hammer Arm Conkledurr on my Trick Room team and it was really good, but the 10% miss was a liability sometimes. Lastly, there is the overkill that is Superpower, but it cuts into your longevity with the Defense and Attack drops.

Without Bulk Up, the 4th moveslot is interesting and you could run Earthquake, but Stone Miss is sometimes better.

Oh yeah STAB 624 Attack Mach Punch can cause fear even in fast resists, such as Latios.
 
I used to use Bandurr as insurance for Excadrill.

It still has some use for Tyranitar and Terrakion, neither of which are OHKOed by Mach Punch without the Choice Band.

DoughBoy, why not run Superpower / Drain Punch / Mach Punch / Payback?
 
Hammer Arm allows him to sit there and laugh at stuff that forces him out after one Superpower, like Skarm.
I THINK he can take one Brave Bird, while Hammer Arm prevents Skarm from setting up, healing and essentially punishes it for using Whirlwind.
 
UncleFinger said:
Hammer Arm allows him to sit there and laugh at stuff that forces him out after one Superpower, like Skarm.
I THINK he can take one Brave Bird, while Hammer Arm prevents Skarm from setting up, healing and essentially punishes it for using Whirlwind.
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Indeed this is the reason why. Skarmory is a 2HKO with Hammer Arm. Conkledurr has a lot of staying power because of his amazing bulk, so it isn't a liability to keep him in against an attacking move. Superpower, while insanely powerful makes you loose that option of staying power if you ever need it.

I do have an affinity for Hammer Arm though because I used it on my Trick Room team :P CB Hammer Arm Conkledurr in TR us guarrenteed to sweep due to his power and bulk against priority. Getting faster every turn is pretty awesome as well :o
 
I think gallade makes an excellent counter to this guy. He can come in on most of his attacks pretty easily (with the exception of earthquake). Additionally, thanks to the payback nerf, be can get a justified boost even more easily. If that's not enough, just use hypnosis on him and set up in his face.
 
lmitchell0012 said:
I think gallade makes an excellent counter to this guy. He can come in on most of his attacks pretty easily (with the exception of earthquake). Additionally, thanks to the payback nerf, be can get a justified boost even more easily. If that's not enough, just use hypnosis on him and set up in his face.
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I still find Reuniclus better. Thanks to its awful speed, payback goes first and is therefore unboosted. I suppose I automatically side with Reuniclus over gallade because, as awesome as Gallade is, Reuniclus is much more useful in the OU environment. Sadly :(
 
alphatron said:
Woah, my opinion of conkeldurr sure has changed since I made this post.

The bulk up set is near useless against any good team in today's metagame and cannot be salvaged as far as I am concerned. Attempting to use it will just end in conkeldurr using bulk up as your opponent switches to a counter or something that can ohko him (which is easy), or using mach punch/drain punch as your opponent laughs at your pitiful low base power attacks and kicks your ass. Base 75 and base 40 STAB attacks? And we seriously make fun of electivire? Even a boosted mach punch has trouble killing things that aren't already dead or crippled, nor will it help against the newfound great king of the OU metagame. If bulk up conk is performing any sweeps, it's because your opponent isn't actually playing the game and quite frankly, niether are you. Your victory was all an illusion. Your opponent has gone home and is laughing with his or her friends about the opponent he just beat who still believed that bulk up conkeldurr was any good.

Don't get me wrong, I am not here solely to bash...in fact I am here to ask a question that I have asked myself several times: Why AREN'T people using subpunch conkeldurr?! Instead of using bulk up when you force those switches, why aren't you simply setting up a substitute and then smashing things in the face with a base 150 STAB attack coming off of base 140 attack power? Payback/Stone edge can now be used to kill those offensive ghost and psychic types (bulk up couldn't get away with using payback very well) and the latias/latios who switched in on the sub will now be out of thier ass. The fourth move can still be mach punch or drain punch if need be.
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Well, in my opinion, Breloom is just a better sub-puncher than Conky in most scenarios. Breloom has spore and free recovery every turn to replace those substitutes. Conkeldurr has guts and a slightly higher attack. Using guts with the subpunching set is difficult if you get toxiced or burnt since conky gets worn down pretty fast. You can use drain punch but that doesn't help much if your opponent has a ghost type or a resist ahead of you. Poison heal >> drain punch.
 
Another thing of note is that Breloom has access to Drain Punch, Mach Punch, and Stone Edge as well, plus it has the luxury of using a secondary STAB in Seed Bomb. Spore is just icing on the cake. Breloom's movepool is miles ahead of that of Conkeldurr. The difference in Attack isn't significant enough to warrant usage over Breloom, and the difference in bulk is mitigated by Poison Heal. Breloom's SubPunch set is also less predictable, since it could either be a SubSeed version or an offensive SubPunch variant. Bulk Up Conkeldurr, as alphatron already mentioned, has nothing on Breloom, since Guts only raises the Attack after it is hit by status, Breloom has a pseudo-immunity to status. Even Bulk Up Scrafty has more of a niche than Conkeldurr thanks to Shed Skin+Rest.

While Conkeldurr's two most common sets are overshadowed Breloom, I think this Pokemon is still salvageable, in the form of the Choice Band set. Yeah, there's Terrakion and it's big bad Choice Band Close Combat and Stone Edge. However, very few things want to take a 624 Attack Hammer Arm, much less one that nabs a Guts boost from switching into a Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp or something. Choice Band Mach Punch is also an incredibly powerful priority move. While Conkeldurr is no Scizor, Fighting is a better Offensive type than Steel and Conkeldurr can still take out some troublesome frail sweepers.

That being said, once Technician Breloom is released, Conkeldurr's Mach Punch will be inferior to that of Breloom once more. Perhaps Conkeldurr is doomed to failure, only time will tell.
 
I think the way to salvage Conkledurr' is to utilize the Guts with Toxic Orb/Flame Orb. Having the power of CB with the ability to switch moves is awesome. It gives access to Facade which allows you to skirt around the usual counters like Gliscor and Reuniclus and take a big chunk out of them. Facade gives him access to a high base power move unlike his other sets. Drain Punch+Guts makes a great combo, a combo that only Conkledurr has access to. The Guts set is what gives Conkledurr a true niche that other fighting types in the tier don't have.

When Pokemon Grey comes out lets hope Sleep Talk is there. Guts+Sleep Talk in the vein of Heracross.
 
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