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Conkeldurr

Jaroda said:
It's a good spread. You have the minimum SpD EVs required for Scarfdera Overheat, meaning almost no other special attack is likely to kill you from full health at +0, especially at your HP. Sacrificing a bit more Attack HP is fine it makes you likely to get more Bulk Ups. It only hurts your initial attack power which admittedly isn't as huge an issue. Roo should always have Guts if you ask me. The small boost in punch ower is nothing compared to status immunity, especially since a Burn will outright cripple you. Stone Edge is prefered over Payback since a +1 kills most frail ghosts and psychics on the switch, and Payback is useless against Rankurusu anyway. It doesn't hurt Burungeru as much but he can't touch you anyway so you're free to get enough Bulk Ups and even a burn until you can one shot him, which is common.
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Really? I'll take that into consideration
and thanks for the mention of my ev spread.
 
Trust me, you'll be thankful you have it when you need to hit flying types that resist your punches. The ghosts that don't die to a +1 SE are the ones that aren't a threat anyway, like Dusclops, Desukan or Burungeru. All they can do it use weak special attacks (which your defensive spread is built for) or status you and activate your Guts. Eventually, you'll be praying they send in a Burungeru for you to take advantage of. Also make your HP stat 400 instead. You'll have a magic leftovers number and you can put slightly more back in Attack.
 
http://91.121.73.228/index.html
The statistics can be found here.

Well another thing is ive been running 8 Speed Ev's and its been working amazingly.Normally in a Robushin Vs Robushin match up whichever Robushin is faster is going to win generally.And with just 8 i havnt lost a single of such match ups so i'd really reccomend spending 8 Ev's in speed.Its not too much of a loss taking it from Attack or something anyway.
 
On Roobushin, I'd say that Stone Edge is definitely a better option than Payback, as coming in against something like a Tyranitar or a Doryuuzu, and being able to predict and destroy a Shandera on the switch in one hit is always nice.
 
Jaroda said:
Trust me, you'll be thankful you have it when you need to hit flying types that resist your punches. The ghosts that don't die to a +1 SE are the ones that aren't a threat anyway, like Dusclops, Desukan or Burungeru. All they can do it use weak special attacks (which your defensive spread is built for) or status you and activate your Guts. Eventually, you'll be praying they send in a Burungeru for you to take advantage of. Also make your HP stat 400 instead. You'll have a magic leftovers number and you can put slightly more back in Attack.
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Yeah, I noticed I have Stone Edge on most of my fighting type pokémon than Payback so i'll give it SE and see how well it does.
 
I always use Payback instead of Stone Edge, because I hate missing and most Flying types are weakened by SR anyway. If you can rack up the damage, that is. For setting SR up, I found Ttar quite nice, as he also provides another way to deal with Ghost types.

Until now that worked quite well.
 
Plus Payback helps vs Bulky Psychics (not all of them are frail at all) like Celebi, Mew, or the Lati@s twins. Shandera is hit hard by either move so it's just a matter of if you want to be stopped by Bulky Psychics or Bulky Flyers and I wouldn't say either option is that much better then the other.
 
Admittedly Lati@s is fairly popular but Roopushin shouldn't be sitting in on it anyway. I also see a lot more Dragonite, Salamence, Ulgamoth and Gyarados than I do Celebi or Mew. So I certainly prefer to be able to OHKO those monsters with Rock and Celebi and Mew are only threats if they carry Psychic, which admittedly you don't see them running too often. Mew tends to BP and Celebi usually T-Wave me and then all they have is Grass Knot. They're set up fodder really. Playing the numbers games you'll see far more Flying types than Psychic types, hence my choice. If you insist on Payback though be my guest.
 
Actually I see more Lati@s then I do any of the flyers you mention and while I can't sit in on them, predicting the switch and hitting them on the way in works fine. But I hardly falt you for running Stone Edge, it is good, I was just pointing out there are reasons to run Payback.

Also with Roobushin's popularity more pokes are running psychic then before (I know I've seen celebi with it on nasty plot sets).
 
As well they should. Good example of a shifting metagame, as Psychic was hardly a common attack type last gen. Although if you're only going to hit L@tias on the switch with Payback, SE is the same BP, as Payback won't be at full power.
 
It seems almost intentional because we got a ton of mono-typed Psychics and Fighters this gen.
The most common Gen IV offensive Fighters, with the exception of Machamp, were not that bulky and had secondary types that gave them other expolitable weaknesses.
Roobushin, with its bulk, active recovery, unprecedented atk, and STAB priority seems to be putting psychics back to work.
He can become a handful really quickly if he's given any time but he's tough to break with unboosted neutral attacks.
 
Just a few observations on this powerhouse:

A lot of people have been singing the praises of hammer arm. I can see where the much higher BA can come in handy, but this dude is able to sweep because drain punch refills its health on the way. I could see hammer arm on a cb set, but bulk up is this dude's bread and butter in my experience.

It loves the jellyfish. It usually comes in on a bulk up, then burns or poisons me as i bulk up again. +2 and guts has never failed to ohko it with stone edge. It also wrecks natty in a similar fashion.

Stone edge is much more useful. Contrary to popular belief, payback does not double in power on the switch. You really want a se attack vs mence and dragonite. Nites like to think they are smart and try to roost off your rock attack which lets you rape with fighting stuff. SE destroys ghosts anyway, even dusclops/noir, because they can't touch you.

I heard someone say that roobushin is currently #3 in wifi usage but i didn't check it myself.

Also i'm still trying to find the perfect EV spread. Maybe there isn't one.
 
Hammer Arm would be a great attack specifically on a TR team. You get faster every turn and as a result the better power would be warranted over healing. You could even abuse a Life Orb as your item or even better, a Burn Orb with Guts.

Otherwise I agree 100%. Bulk Up and Drain Punch are a match made in heaven and he LOVES setting up on Nattorei and Burungeru. Go ahead! Use as much spikes as you want, you're going to regret letting me get to +4. Gee, thanks for the free Guts boost!

Perfect EV spread is hard to find. I run Adamant 68 HP/224 At/216 SpD. Seems like an amazing combination of bulk and natural power, as you have an attack stat of 409 before Bulk Up! However, since a Bulk Up is most likely, I think either 132 HP/160 At/216 SpD or an even more extreme 196 HP/96 At/216 SpD are his best bets. You'll fail to KO more pokemon in one or two hits but then again that's what Mach Punch is for, getting the finish.

68 HP/224 At/216 SpD Spread: HP 368/AT 409/DF 226/SpA 131/SpD 220/Sp 126
132 HP/160 At/216 SpD Spread: HP 384/AT 391
196 HP/96 At/216 SpD Spread: HP 400/AT 374

Spread 1 after Bulk Up: HP 368/AT 614/DF 339
Spread 2 after Bulk Up: HP 384/AT 587/DF 339
Spread 3 after Bulk Up: HP 400/AT 563/DF 339

So as we can see because the attack stat is what gets boosted, you see a bigger payoff by having more EVs in it. Spread 1 and 3 have a difference of 51 points after a Bulk Up, but only a difference of 32 points regardless of how much you BU. This leads me to believe that sacrificing any more Attack EVs for HP past spread 2 is counter productive as you lose a lot more attack power for the slight increase in HP. Remember, the more damage you do with DP the more you heal. Therefore I conclude that spread 1 or 2 are the more efficient Roopushin spreads as all these spreads have magic Lefties numbers.
 
Green Mage said:
Also i'm still trying to find the perfect EV spread. Maybe there isn't one.
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Yes, that seems to be the dilemma. I personally wouldn't use anything other than Max Attack because it lets me hit Pokemon like Doryuzzu and Blaziken for as much damage as possible. However, if you have some other way to take take care of these guys, the best spread for a pure set-up sweeper Rohpushin would probably be 252 HP/16 Atk/240 SpD Adamant.

All in all, it really just depends on your team.
 
tone edge might be the worst move in the game but without it, gyara say hello double sword wielding clown, i phaze you k thanks. Hes not going to beat toxicroak anytime soon though.
 
Worst move in the game? Can we leave hyperbolic, biased, and downright false statements like that at the door?

As for Toxicroak A) He's #103 on the dream world tier, not an issue. B) How exactly is he going to hurt Roopushin anyways? He's set up fodder. So what if he resists Drain Punch, he'll be bulldozered by raw power.
 
Jaroda said:
Worst move in the game? Can we leave hyperbolic, biased, and downright false statements like that at the door?

As for Toxicroak A) He's #103 on the dream world tier, not an issue. B) How exactly is he going to hurt Roopushin anyways? He's set up fodder. So what if he resists Drain Punch, he'll be bulldozered by raw power.
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lol im just joking bout the SE. anyway if theres a pressure user that can reliably beat ropushin then thats the best check for Robushin.
NP croak just doesnt hit hard enough
 
Stone Edge is often referred to as the worst move in the game because it misses so often. He wasn't being serious. (Same with Focus Blast.)

Anyway, judging by discussion in his analysis thread, Roopushin might be better off investing in his defences first, as it means he recovers more health from Drain Punch and doesn't affect his all-around bulkiness as much as it may seem.
 
What exactly is the point of Payback on Roobushin, when Stone Edge is twice as powerful, meaning that a neutral hit from Stone Edge deals exactly the same amount of damage as a super-effective Payback? The only advantage Payback has over Stone Edge, aside from the higher accuracy and PP, is the fact that Payback deals more damage than Stone Edge in a situation in which it deals super-effective damage while Stone Edge does not, and Roobushin is attacked on the turn in which it uses Payback. Such is only the case against Psychic-type Pokémon and Ghost-type Pokémon. Roobushin, with its low Special Defense has no reason to be staying in and taking a hit against Psychic-type Pokémon, meaning that its only means of attacking Psychic-type Pokémon should be on switch-ins. As for Ghost-type Pokémon, Payback may be good in some situations against some of them such as Burungeru, but Shandera is by far the most commonly-used Pokémon, let alone the most commonly-used Ghost-type one, and since it is also weak to Rock (and thus Stone Edge is still twice as strong as Payback against it, as Roobushin hitting Shandera for double damage with Payback would never happen as Shandera takes Roobushin out in one hit), I believe that being able to take it out with one Stone Edge on the switch, as opposed to failing to do so with Payback, is definitely more beneficial, considering Shandera takes Roobushin down with a single Overheat or Psychic if it manages to switch in without being destroyed in the process. And with these advantages, I cannot see any convincing reason to believe that Payback's higher PP and accuracy can make up for the fact that it is, in practice, only half as powerful as Stone Edge, which not to mention can also hit Flying-type Pokémon on the switch for a lot of damage.
 
Agreed, though you made a mistake in your statement: ".....meaning that a neutral hit from Stone Edge deals exactly the same amount of damage as a super-effective Payback...."

Neutral Stone Edge: 100 BP
Super effective Payback, assuming Roopushin moves last: 200 BP ( 50 BP *2(Super effective)*2(Roobushin moving last).

Still,I would go with Rock Slide, since I hate Stone Edge, and Payback doesnt work out that well.

A Bulk up set running 252 Spl Def 212 HP 44 Atk , with Adamant nature and Guts carrying Rock Slide/Drain Punch/Mach Punch has been my best set. I get a Lefties number with the HP Ev's, and the 252 Spl Def EV's ensure that I am never OHKO'd by Scarf Shanderaa Overheat. The EV Spread I am using is a slight modification of one which Sol64 suggested earlier right here, the primary reason bein that you dont need that much Attack. Guts makes it a monster when statused as well.
 
Actually, I already addressed what you pointed out in my previous post, and I stated that Payback's potential to do twice as much damage to Psychic-type Pokémon is largely irrelevant, as Roobushin has no reason to stay in against them, or hit them in any way other than on the switch, while Payback has some niche over Stone Edge against every Ghost-type Pokémon not named Shandera or Drifblim, but I believe such niches are definitely offset by the extremely strong need to destroy Shandera on the switch in one hit, for reasons mentioned in my previous message.
 
Green Mage said:
I heard someone say that roobushin is currently #3 in wifi usage but i didn't check it myself.

Also i'm still trying to find the perfect EV spread. Maybe there isn't one.
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Yeah #3 in dream world tier and #5 on wifi. And have u seen my suggested ev spread? (Page 10) Although it's very similar to Jaroda's 3rd Ev spread. I just liked reaching 400 HP, now that I look at it, I do see the loss in power but hopefully it shouldn't matter so much and mach punch can hopefully make up for the slight drop in hits that I could be making with spread 1 or even 2.

EDIT: Been doing some dream world battles on PO (Although some may hate that and trust me, I got bloody irritated from it, you never had a fun time on it) And the 252 Hp /252 Atk/ 4 Sp.def really doesn't help, sure you have power, bulk it's deceptively unbulky on the special side, EV investment in special defense while sacrificing attack will BLESS you when taking Shandera Overheat then retaliating with Stone Edge which basically made me see the truth when i encountered an Ulgamoth. NOW I want to use Stone Edge more than Payback.
 
Yeah Ulgamoth can be a pain. If you switch into an attack and not a dance it's hard to survive two in a row, especially if they were fire moves. Roopushin has no problem switching into a Bug Buzz but the next fire move is going to hurt. They go down though if they try to set up on you if they think you don't have a rock move.
 
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