Counter This Pokemon [OLD VERSION]

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At this point, I'm pretty sure a mon has to either 1) have intimidate or 2) resist Earthquake to even have a chance at countering Landorus-I. Under Gravity, and with Sand Force boosting damage, EQ bulldozes through even the sturdiest walls like Forretress and Ferrothorn.

Further, since the only types that resist EQ in gravity are Bug and Grass, they are covered by SE and HP Ice. To me, the only way you're reliably avoiding 2HKOs is with VERY physically bulky Grass types that still have enough SpDef to avoid the 2HKO from HP Ice (since Bug types won't work because the only one resisting EQ and neutral to SE is lol Heracross).

The only other way to counter is with pokes that are faster than Landorus, can OHKO reliably, and can avoid the OHKO from any of Landy's moves after rocks and weather. This is still an incredibly small list, as it's difficult to find a pokemon with the combination of high speed and defenses that still has enough firepower to OHKO Landorus. Outside of gimmicks like scarfed defensive Suicune (lol) you're not going to find anything that has high enough stats in all of the areas it needs to succeed.

Then again, there's always Whimsicott...
I fully agree with you. After looking for a counter, I fully believe there is no counter under these circumstances.


Claydol @ Leftovers
Levitate
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Ice Beam
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Earth Power

Lando's most surefire counter, also spins! What a handy guy. HP ice is a 3hko no matter what, so you can even take your time and spin a little before you dispose of lando with a quick ice beam. Definitely landorus's best counter, surprised he has not been yet mentioned.
@pwnemon Here are the calcs including Gravity:
Earthquake: 141-166 (43.51 - 51.23%) -- 6.64% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That's the hardest hitting move Landorus has against Claydol and there is still a chance Claydol can't do anything in return. It is a very small chance, and I do agree he is probably the best "counter" to Gavity Lando, but a hard counter at that.
 

WaterBomb

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well if Gravity isn't in effect the list of counters grows exponentially. I figured we were assuming Gravity to already be in effect so the counters listed would have to be the MOST effective. Hell without Gravity in effect Bronzong walls Landy all day long...
 

NixHex

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lol Pwnemon must have spent like an hour on that post :-/

Anyway, our next Pokemon has been around for two generations and is one of the most diverse Pokemon in the entire game. It has very respectable bulk and immense special offense and is commonly used for both roles. This round will focus on the latter role. I present to you, courtesy of alphatron, is SpecsTran!

Weather: Sun
Heatran @ Choice Specs

Nature: Modest
Ability: Flash Fire
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Dragon Pulse
-Hidden Power Grass

Choice Specs Heatran is a fierce beast, reaching 591 SpA with a Modest nature. Powered by intense sunlight, it gains "double STAB" on Fire Blast with an effective Base Power of 270. The remainder of its moves are pretty much catered to hit what Fire Blast can't hurt as hard. Think twice before you submit your post; make sure you are taking into account the weather, as it is a determining factor in just how damn powerful this thing is.
 
@pwnemon Here are the calcs including Gravity:
Earthquake: 141-166 (43.51 - 51.23%) -- 6.64% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That's the hardest hitting move Landorus has against Claydol and there is still a chance Claydol can't do anything in return. It is a very small chance, and I do agree he is probably the best "counter" to Gavity Lando, but a hard counter at that.
What? If I come in on lando the gravity turn, then he gets off one EQ and I promptly Ice Beam his ugly mug

i'll find spextran counters later
 

EonX

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Perhaps the best way to counter Specs Heatran is with a Heatran of your own:


Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Earth Power

With Flash Fire and Air Balloon, guess what this Heatran does? Block off the strongest offense Choice Specs Heatran has on it. Fire Blast in the sun? Doesn't do squat, and thanks to Flash Fire, you then get to abuse "triple STAB" Fire Blasts of your own. Earth Power? You hover above it with an Air Balloon. (however that works) This Heatran is a great addition to Sun teams who run a more offensive Ninetales as well as weatherless teams that find themselves weak against common rain and sand threats such as Tornadus-T, Keldeo, and Landorus. I don't think I need to say that Earth Power just destroys Choice Specs Heatran, but it does. (116% - 137%) The given nature and EVs let Heatran get in front of the positive nature base 70 Speed crowd. While this may seem less significant with Breloom running Mach Punch these days, it does let you get in front of non-Scarf Politoed should you catch it on the switch with Sunny Day, allowing you to go for the KO with Solarbeam.
 
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 Sp.Def
Careful Nature (+Sp.Def, -Sp.A)
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Tyranitar has the benefit of removing the sun while boosting his own special defense with the summoned sandstorm.

The specially defensive spread means that there is only a 41% chance that Heatran will 2HKO Tyranitar with Stealth Rock (3HKO otherwise) up while Tyranitar can score an OHKO (barely) with Superpower.

Tyranitar fills the roll of weather summoner and special wall while maintaining some physical presence with a 313 Attack stat.

41% chance to 2HKO is still pretty high though.
 


Tyranitar w/ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
-EQ
-Superpower
-Crunch/Pursuit
-Stone Edge

TTar Can remove the Sun, Boosting SpD and weakening Heatran's Fire Blast. He is Bulky enough to be 2-shotted by Earth power after Rocks Damage. He can then OHKO with Earthquake, and he WILL move 1st thanks to Scarf.
 

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
Nature:Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~Outrage
~Extremespeed
~Fire Punch
~Earthquake
If Heatran hits it with Dragon Pulse, it does 50-58.95%, a guaranteed 2HKO, and then Dnite outspeeds and OHKO's with Earthquake. Fire Blast does 37.35-43.83%, a guaranteed 3HKO. Even with SR up, it 2HKO's at the most.
EDIT: This only counters without Stealth Rock, because it breaks Multiscale.
 
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Nature: Bold
252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
~ Discharge / Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Toxic / Thunder Wave
~ Recover

I guess Porygon2 can switch into Heatran's fire moves since Trace will give it Flash Fire. Eviolite boosts Porygon2s SpD. Just chip away at Heatran since he can't do much to you :l.
 
Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 56 SDef / 224 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Taunt

Bulky DD slightly modified to counter this Heatran. With these Evs Heatran can´t KO with anything after SR and in return is KO´d by EQ
 
Scarftoed is a good Heatran counter. Since the specs Tran shown is in sun, this can take away the rain and weaken its fire type moves.
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Timid/Modest
Drizzle
252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Focus Blast
/Surf Hidden Power Grass/Electric/Ground
Fire Blast in rain :
73-87 (19.01 - 22.65%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
in sun Fire Blast: 219-258 (57.03 - 67.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock not a 1hko and whenever its toed vs tran rain is up

hpump in rain Hydro Pump: 432-510 (133.74 - 157.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO
surf in rain Surf: 342-404 (105.88 - 125.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO
even focus blast
Focus Blast: 192-228 (59.44 - 70.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Scarf Politoed is kinda shaky as a counter:

252 SpAtk Choice Specs Heatran (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Grass vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Politoed: 78,26% - 92,55%

37,5% chance to OHKO after SR
 
Snorlax@Leftovers
Thick Fat
Careful
188 HP/96 Atk/8 Def/216 SpD
-Earthquake
-Curse
-Return
-Fire Punch

Curselax does not get 2HKOed by any of Heatran's moves thanks to thick fat and OHKOs back with Earthquake.

Heatran Sun boosted Specs Fire Blast vs Thick Fat Curselax
591 Atk vs 341 Def & 508 HP (60 Base Power): 168 - 198 (33.07% - 38.98%)

Snorlax EQ vs Heatran
280 Atk vs 248 Def & 324 HP (100 Base Power): 324 - 384 (100.00% - 118.52%)
 

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Return
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

My favorite UU and below Poke to use in OU. It can sponge Fire Blast in the sun and proceed to retaliate back with Earthquake. What is nice about this counter is that even if Heatran switches out, something still will take a serious damage with its high attack stat. Snorlax makes an excellent bulky attacker and should not be trifled with as Sun teams have few means to sponge his powerful hits. Leftovers is chosen over Choice Band to aid in future switchins on to Heatran.

edit: grrr bogmire I take too long to type out things :( Also Bogmire you didn't take Sun into account
 
Scarf Politoed is kinda shaky as a counter:

252 SpAtk Choice Specs Heatran (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Grass vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Politoed: 78,26% - 92,55%

37,5% chance to OHKO after SR
like i said you can play around it. it's a good check at least
 
I double checked, I did take sun into account unless there's something wrong with Cherubi *shrug*
No it is my mistake. You have a large amount of HP investment in addition to your special defense investment. Meanwhile my Snorlax only has heavy special defense invesment. Regardless both make good counters and we arrived at the same thing!
 

Sayonara

don't forget


Milotic @ Leftovers | Marvel Scale
Calm | 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
~ Rest
~ Hidden Power Ground
~ Sleep Talk
~ Dragon Tail

In the Sunshine, Milotic takes 37.56% - 44.41% from Fire Blast (3HKO), 39.59% - 46.7% from Hidden Power Grass (3HKO), 25.38% - 29.94% from Earth Power and Dragon Pulse (5HKO with Leftovers recovery from Milotic). So, Milotic can reliably switch-in, tank a hit, then use Rest. It can then utilize Sleep Talk to pHaze Heatran away with Dragon Tail, or dish out a Hidden Power Ground, which deals 59.44% - 70.58% to Heatran. Leftovers grants recovery.
 
Ugh, here comes Mr. Predictable. Heatran's Public Enemy Number One:


Blissey@ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Calm - 4HP/ 252 Def/ 252 Sp. Def
-Wish
-Protect
-Seismic Toss
-Toxic

A slightly different take on Blissey's more standard EV spread (252HP instead of Sp. Def and Bold> Calm). However, this is actually an under-rated spread that sacrifices some physical bulk to pump up it's special bulk. With these EVs, Fire Blast does between 43.3-51.1%, which won't be 2HKO'ing after Lefties - keep in mind that Bliss can Protect the first turn that it comes in, so it essentially gets two rounds of Leftovers recovery, thereby negating Stealth Rock as well.
From there, Blissey can just stall out with Wish/ Protect, and use Seismic Toss when Heatran misses with Fire Blast. The only concern is a potential critical hit, but you can't really take that into consideration here. Fire Blast only has a max PP of 8, and with Protect, Blissey can only be hit by 4 Fire blasts at maximum before 'Tran runs out.
Finally if/ When Heatran switches, it doesn't matter. Assuming Heatran has hit you down to 50% with Fire Blast, you can simply Wish the next turn as Heatran switches; follow that up with Protect, and Bliss is back at 100%, meaning that it can continue to come back in and wall Heatran, as it is completely unscathed.

PS: Note on the nature - I chose Calm to take Heatran's attacks better, though Bold is an option; however, Tran will do 47.4-55.8% damage, making it a bit more shaky in terms of countering this specific set. It's still possible with some Protect spamming and low damage rolls, but more unreliable. Also, if you want you can ditch the Defense EVs and drop them into HP, giving Blissey almost ridiculous Specially Defensive capabilities, though it's generally accepted competitively that Blissey really needs to invest in it's physical defense - but it is an option.
 
Perhaps the best way to counter Specs Heatran is with a Heatran of your own:


Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Earth Power

With Flash Fire and Air Balloon, guess what this Heatran does? Block off the strongest offense Choice Specs Heatran has on it. Fire Blast in the sun? Doesn't do squat, and thanks to Flash Fire, you then get to abuse "triple STAB" Fire Blasts of your own. Earth Power? You hover above it with an Air Balloon. (however that works) This Heatran is a great addition to Sun teams who run a more offensive Ninetales as well as weatherless teams that find themselves weak against common rain and sand threats such as Tornadus-T, Keldeo, and Landorus. I don't think I need to say that Earth Power just destroys Choice Specs Heatran, but it does. (116% - 137%) The given nature and EVs let Heatran get in front of the positive nature base 70 Speed crowd. While this may seem less significant with Breloom running Mach Punch these days, it does let you get in front of non-Scarf Politoed should you catch it on the switch with Sunny Day, allowing you to go for the KO with Solarbeam.
Yes, this is definitely the best one. Immune to two attacks, resists one @ 1/2 and the other 1/4. Although, i wouldn't run solarbeam and sunny day just to kill one threat; Something like Stealth rocks+HP grass is better.
 

ganj4lF

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I think every "reasonable" counter has already been listed: that thing hits so hard that even Chansey or Sp. Defensive Jellicent cannot avoid the 2HKO with high damage rolls. With a tailored EV spread to counter Heatran, I guess Keldeo can be somewhat a check:


Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Trait: Justified
EVs: 188 SpA / 64 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power Ghost / Hidden Power Electric
- Icy Wind / Surf

Keldeo needs at least 64 SpD EVs to avoid being KOed on the switch by HP Grass with SR on the field; after the switch in, it outspeeds and KO with Specs Secret Sword. Timid Nature and max speed are useful to retain a bit of usability outside checking this particular Heatran, for example speed tieing with Terrakions, outspeeding all base 100, etc. However, do note that Overheat outdamages HP Grass and has a 68.75% chance to KO Keldeo after SR, so if Heatran carries that (and IMHO, it should) Keldeo has his fair share of troubles. Overall, it is an incredibly shaky counter, but I couldn't find anything better :/

Hidden Power Grass vs 0/64 Keldeo: 256-302 (79.25 - 93.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Fire Blast vs 0/64 Keldeo: 246-289 (76.16 - 89.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Overheat vs 0/64 Keldeo: 286-337 (88.54 - 104.33%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

188 SpA Specs Keldeo Secret Sword: 378-446 (117.02 - 138.08%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

WaterBomb

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Man, and I thought Landorus had raw power in Sand...

Heatran's Fire Blast in the Sun does 41.01 - 48.5% to 252/252+ Mantine, a guaranteed 2HKO with SR...

Holy balls.

EDIT: lol, comedy option scarfed Sexlord with 252 HP/156 Attack/100 SpDef survives HP Grass after rocks and OHKOs with EQ :)
 

Electrolyte

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Man, and I thought Landorus had raw power in Sand...

Heatran's Fire Blast in the Sun does 41.01 - 48.5% to 252/252+ Mantine, a guaranteed 2HKO with SR...

Holy balls.

EDIT: lol, comedy option scarfed Sexlord with 252 HP/156 Attack/100 SpDef survives HP Grass after rocks and OHKOs with EQ :)
What can be said has been said. There really aren't any other counters than the ones listed here. Good thing this set isn't very common!

Oh, wait, no there's one more.
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
~Reversal
~Earthquake
~Stealth Rock
~Sucker punch/Stone Edge
This little guy survives any hit because of it's focus sash, and replies with a x6 EQ or a x2 Reversal.
EQ- 131-156%
Reversal (at 1 HP)- 90-104%

As Omicron said, Fuck SR xD
 

alphatron

Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I've actually had sashed dugtrio switch into my specs heatran pretty often in the past when stealth rock wasn't down. It eventually annoyed me enough to switch to magma storm instead. Was also good for finishing off those regenerator slowbro who were unpleasantly surprised when they switched in and lost more health than they expected to.

The dragonite set mentioned earlier forgot to take SR into consideration. And I'm having trouble thinking of viable counters beyond what you guys are mentioning. Balloon sp. def flareon isn't viable after all.
 
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