The little warstory made me smile.
This set seems like a lot of fun to use...
This set seems like a lot of fun to use...
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Creative new Froslass Set
- Thread starter Sulla
- Start date
Until they see every single one of your four moves, there's no way Garchomp will come in on Froslass, and with all the Blizzarding going on while using a Hail team, is Garchomp generally still that much of a problem? I don't know, I'm not experienced with a Hail team (but they sound like fun!), but isn't one of the goals while making one, to "spam Blizzard"? :P
On Swagger vs. Confuse Ray, do you really want your opponent to die early? Because if that happens, you've taken out an opponent, yes, but something new comes in, and you still don't have your Spikes down, and that guy's likely not paralyzed, and isn't confused. So I'd say Confuse Ray is better, because you want your opponent to be immobilized, but not killed until you get your Spikes up.
You also really focus a lot on getting Spikes up... maybe just get a Forry? If I was wanting a Froslass to use Spikes, I'd switch it in on one of the fighting moves that are commonly Choice'd, and use Spikes on the switch, then switch out, and come in next time, and the more you switch, the more you rack up damage. I don't know, if you're using this set, I don't know if you'll have the advantage, because A, all this set does is put up Spikes (and some Twave support, I guess), and dies from there, and B, I don't know if you have a good chance of even pulling it off. Sure, when you're set up, they only have a 25% chance of hitting you, but at that point, you're not likely to be able to Sub too much more, and it's risky for you to try to even make it that far. If you're looking for something that sets up Spikes, then becomes useless, get a Forry, give it Spikes and Boom. :P
Yes, I have to admit it is creative and works effectively, as some guy named aw almost beat me with it(although I won in the end) when my Restalk Heatran kept on getting haxed. Sulla, I know you watched that.
Once you miss and/or switch, that thing can set up some annoying shit on you, and is good for the hail theme.
Once you miss and/or switch, that thing can set up some annoying shit on you, and is good for the hail theme.
Yeah i have to agree, Froslass suffers from 5-moveslot syndrome in this case, but i stil prefer spikes > Blizzard.
Gachomp is not really a threat as the only variant i really need to fear is the declining ScarfChomp. Ill swagger on the turn they break the sub, and if he hits me before i used Swagger then i know he is scarfed and can switch appropriately. If he is slower then he only has a 40% chance of succesfully attacking me, so i can spam sub and swagger until he dies (probability is on my side if we both start at full hp).
Oh and If you could run those calcs it would be much appreciated.
Since this is a relatively new set, most people are still expecting Blizzard on Froslass so i have the element of Surprise when i bring her in. Though i still believe this set would be succesful if its popularity increased.
And yes, Swagger is still the better choice to Confuse Ray. Swagger alows me to beat a whole bunch of pokemon capable of healing themselves such as Milotic and Celebii. Otherwise, once i have succesfully set up 3 layers of spikes, i can do absolutely nothing against any pokemon that can heal, since i lack a viable attacking move. Also the PP difference really does matter as in the few battles i have used Froslass, i have found myself using Swagger around 20 or so times (remember with each additional use of Swagger, you raise the opponents attack stat by +2 stages, and thus, the damage they do to themselves in confusion).
I think that "hax" is more one-sided luck. So, if there's only a 25% chance for you to hit, and you miss... that's not really hax.
Hmm, I don't know enough of the game to really do the calculations I want to do. Sorry for putting your hopes up >_>
If you guys do decide to ever try new froslass sets, I have one the best(if not the best) froslasses/snorunts here on smogon.
problem is, a pokemon with lum berry gets a free +2 attack from you, or switch in to thunderwave for free.. in other words, anything thats faster / carrying lum berry switches in for free. especially if you dont have a sub up. and with out a recovery move, if they switch in to spikes.. and break sub the turn their berry activates.. you can't do much.
granted its obviously supposed to be used vs a special attacker, so the +2 atk might not be a big worry, but i dunno.. its too risky to give up +2 atk, and be constantly cutting health with no healing source aside from lefties to not have any form attack move.. especially with a heavy pursuit weakness.
granted its obviously supposed to be used vs a special attacker, so the +2 atk might not be a big worry, but i dunno.. its too risky to give up +2 atk, and be constantly cutting health with no healing source aside from lefties to not have any form attack move.. especially with a heavy pursuit weakness.
But in all honesty, how common are Lum berry carrying pokés that can actually benefit from a +2 attack boost? I think the only one I ever see is Metagross (which is quite intimidating). Apart from that, it's usually Bronzong and Roserade. If this ever did become so popular that it forced people to carry Lum berry, surely that's one less choice item/life orb to worry about? In which case, it's still proving useful regardless of being less directly beneficial.
~ Thunder Wave
~ Ice Beam/Blizzard
~ Swagger
~ Substitute
This is really what I think should be used. Spikes are nice, but given the fact that residual damage like this will not kill (easily) alone, you'll want a damaging move. I would like to use Ice Beam here, even if Abomasnow is there, because for one I would like to be 100% accurate when facing Hippowdon, and for two because you might run into PP issues when focusing on staying alive eternally.
~ Ice Beam/Blizzard
~ Swagger
~ Substitute
This is really what I think should be used. Spikes are nice, but given the fact that residual damage like this will not kill (easily) alone, you'll want a damaging move. I would like to use Ice Beam here, even if Abomasnow is there, because for one I would like to be 100% accurate when facing Hippowdon, and for two because you might run into PP issues when focusing on staying alive eternally.
It's good for a Frosslass (who by the way sucks balls, anyone who thinks that it's better than Gengar for some reason is wrong). Swagger sucks though, you should pretty much avoid giving things like, say, Garchomp a free Swords Dance. Have fun with it, though all someone has to do is touch your Frosslass with a Shadow Punch or two (say, Dusknoir?) and then your Spikes are gone.
I like a utility Deoxys-S as a Spiker. Surprisingly, it doesn't suck that much thanks to the uber fast Taunt, Knock Off, and Recover it has.
I like a utility Deoxys-S as a Spiker. Surprisingly, it doesn't suck that much thanks to the uber fast Taunt, Knock Off, and Recover it has.
I just ran some calculations. Taking into account Swagger's accuracy, Snow Cloak, and Paralysis, the probability of that strategy working within 4 uses of Substitute is roughly 80%. This is including the chance that Weavile won't break your Sub as you T-Wave it.
The odds of it succeeding within 5 uses of Substitute is roughly 84.4%.
Definitely 80%. I'd had that with my old Scientific Calculator [I did it the hard way.] But it's fast enough to catch Weavile.
hey guys, I'm gonna put wakeup slap on froslass, blissey counter!!!1!!1!
A month or so ago I made a creative Froslass set, but it was completely ignored. Here's the post:
I think it also deals with big threats and it definitely counters Blissey.
A month or so ago I made a creative Froslass set, but it was completely ignored. Here's the post:
I think it also deals with big threats and it definitely counters Blissey.