Victini has pretty good bulk, too.
-
Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Creative Weather Teams
- Thread starter Mr_br_kill
- Start date
Victini has pretty good bulk, too.
Classicly underrated set that I abuse on my Sun team:
Victini @ Choice Band
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-V-Create
-Fusion Bolt
-U-Turn
-Brick Break
This thing is straight up ridiculous. 180 BP V-Create, boosted by STAB, Choice Band and Sun. There aren't many Pokémon that can live through that. Get your Sun up, stick up your Hazards if you're using them, then bring this beast in and start spamming those V-Creates. Obviously the -Def -SpD and -Spe means it needs to switch out after each one, but that's not an issue if you're smart with your switches. Outside of bulky waters and fire types, not many things survive even one V-Create.
If you're not considering this thing on your Sun teams, you're doing it WRONG.
How does CB/LO Darmanitan compare to Victini? If you want a straightup wallbreaker, Darmanitan has a stronger attack of all the highlighted options. I'm pretty sure Sheer Force boosted Flare Blitz coming Darmanitan is stronger than Victini's V-Create.
Victini can blast through bulky Waters with Fusion Bolt. Additionally, it has more immediate bulk than Darmanitan (maybe even after V-Create...) and doesn't slowly kill itself by simply using its best move.
In terms of power Darmanitan does beat Victini yeah, marginally. I've not got the exact calcs, but I think it's Flare Blitz does around 10% more damage, don't quote me on that though. I'd almost always run Victini over Darmanitan though. 5 more base speed, masses of bulk and arguably a better typing are much more important (IMO!!) than a sliver more power. Everything that Victini NEEDS to KO, it does. I never think to myself 'Ah I was it had slightly more power', therefore I hold it above Darmanitan.
Take from that what you will, but in my dreary & tired state I think I've stated me point well enough. Victini > Darmanitan.
Better type ? Not sure. You lose the resistance to u-turn and you're vulnerable to Pursuit. Well, you take better Fighting&Psychic type.
Hah yeah I did say arguably. Whilst it does bring with it a couple more weaknesses and tips some resistances into neutral hits, the key resistance to Fighting is what I love. Switching into most Fighting-type attacks, letting off a V-Create, then switching into your cleric to heal it back up. This is how I play with Victini, at least. Though I totally agree, that weakness to Pursuit is lethal and forces me to keep my Victini out until I have destroyed their Pursuit users. After a V-Create even the weakest Pursuit users can OHKO it on the switch thanks to the -Def.
Darminitan can Ohko bulkytran with any item. Victini has trouble with that, even the CB set doesn't do that much. With SR, that means i only have to predict correctly once on a CB set to kill it(I'd have to sacrifice heatran). With darminitan? One wrong move and BAM!
Not to mention, better typing NO. Darminitan can not be pursuited with ease after being choiced on its fire-type move.
Not many people use Sun Stall anymore, because it's such a tough strategy to play with. I, for one, have found this little guy extremely useful:
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm nature
~Leech Seed
~Substitute
~Encore
~Sleep Powder / U-Turn
Jumpluff is the second fastest pokemon in the game only outsped by Scarfed Deoxys-S. It is an extreme nuisance to many opposing pokemon, locking them into set up moves or moves that fall under its numerous resistances and one immunity. It works well with Heatran because Heatran demolishes Grass types and Jumpluff Encores ground type moves. No investment in HP means that your Substitutes will cost less to make- and by healed by more pokemon through Leech Seed. U-Turn still hits pretty hard, and can be used once you Encore, Substitute, and Leech Seed down. Sleep Powder is also a good idea to shut down a few select threats.
EDIT: I found out that 0 Atk U-Turn does around 33% to standard Celebi. Seriously, uninvested base 55 attack. Celebi, get your game up.
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm nature
~Leech Seed
~Substitute
~Encore
~Sleep Powder / U-Turn
Jumpluff is the second fastest pokemon in the game only outsped by Scarfed Deoxys-S. It is an extreme nuisance to many opposing pokemon, locking them into set up moves or moves that fall under its numerous resistances and one immunity. It works well with Heatran because Heatran demolishes Grass types and Jumpluff Encores ground type moves. No investment in HP means that your Substitutes will cost less to make- and by healed by more pokemon through Leech Seed. U-Turn still hits pretty hard, and can be used once you Encore, Substitute, and Leech Seed down. Sleep Powder is also a good idea to shut down a few select threats.
EDIT: I found out that 0 Atk U-Turn does around 33% to standard Celebi. Seriously, uninvested base 55 attack. Celebi, get your game up.
I have to agree with tehy here. Whimsicott completely outclasses Jumpluff. Jumpluff needs Rapid Spin support if Stealth Rock gets up, while Whimsicott gives a lot less of a damn. Jumpluff needs sun support to work at its best, Whimsicott just needs Prankster. Jumpluff does 33% to Celebi with U-Turn. Whimsicott does 34.08 - 40.1% with the same. (Assuming you mean Tinkerbell Celebi, not certain what the "standard" set is) Whimsicott just succeeds in being superior to Whimsicott in almost every way, minus Sleep Powder.
The thing is, Sleep Powder is the big thing here. Sleep is so much more viable than paralysis is, because sleep is guaranteed to take a Pokemon out for most of the match while a slow Pokemon can always come in and absorb Stun Spore.
Also, Jumpluff is adorable and Whimsicott is kind of fugly.
Also, Jumpluff is adorable and Whimsicott is kind of fugly.
Victini @ Leftovers/Iron Ball
Victory Star
252 HP/252 Att/4 Def (0 Speed IVs)
Brave Nature
-Trick Room
-V-Create
-Fusion Bolt
-Brick Break
I really do not understand how this isn't onsite. TR Victini is a complete monster and massacres unprepared teams, Rain or otherwise. It is fairly easy to trap Politoed and Tyranitar with Tobes' Heatrab and Dugtrio respectively, and once the Sun is up for good your opponent is in for a world of pain. HO Offense is harshly punished, with all of those fast sweepers (Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, Terrakion, Latios, Salamence etc.) either 2 or even OHKO'd by a V-Create. Stall also struggles with Victini, with even defensive behemoth Gliscor getting solidly 2HKO'd. Bulky waters are generally 2HKO'd by Fusion Bolt, and Tyranitar is also murdered by Brick Break. Really, this thing is a monster for unprepared, heck even prepared teams, and really deserves an onsite set.
Really, this set shines in the Sun (pun intended). Sun is really all Victini needs to nuke things hard. Rain is crippling, but if you play smart with Heatrab your opponent will be kissing their Politoed goodbye. I would post Heatrab, but that's not my set.
Victory Star
252 HP/252 Att/4 Def (0 Speed IVs)
Brave Nature
-Trick Room
-V-Create
-Fusion Bolt
-Brick Break
I really do not understand how this isn't onsite. TR Victini is a complete monster and massacres unprepared teams, Rain or otherwise. It is fairly easy to trap Politoed and Tyranitar with Tobes' Heatrab and Dugtrio respectively, and once the Sun is up for good your opponent is in for a world of pain. HO Offense is harshly punished, with all of those fast sweepers (Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, Terrakion, Latios, Salamence etc.) either 2 or even OHKO'd by a V-Create. Stall also struggles with Victini, with even defensive behemoth Gliscor getting solidly 2HKO'd. Bulky waters are generally 2HKO'd by Fusion Bolt, and Tyranitar is also murdered by Brick Break. Really, this thing is a monster for unprepared, heck even prepared teams, and really deserves an onsite set.
Really, this set shines in the Sun (pun intended). Sun is really all Victini needs to nuke things hard. Rain is crippling, but if you play smart with Heatrab your opponent will be kissing their Politoed goodbye. I would post Heatrab, but that's not my set.
This set has much trouble getting past dragons, unless you swap out Brick Break for HP Ice. Victini has an acceptable Sp. Atk stat and doesn't need to lower it with his nature, so it'll stick at a respectable 236 without investment. You only need to decide how you'll split the leftover EV's between HP and Sp. Atk. If you go full investment plus Life Orb, you can just nab the 100% on Dragonite and Garchomp.
If Sun is up and Victini is holding a Life Orb, Victini cleanly nets 2HKOs on a bunch of OU Dragons:
V-create vs. Latias (OU Physically Defensive Calm Mind): 56.31 - 66.48% - 2HKO
V-create vs. Latios (OU Choice): 104.3 - 122.84% - OHKO
V-create vs. Dragonite (OU Bulky Dragon Dance [Multiscale]): 34.97 - 41.45% - 2HKO w/ MultiScale, OHKO with SR
V-create vs. Salamence (OU Dragon Dance [Intimidate]): 63.44 - 74.62% - 2HKO
Victini appreciates hitting Tyranitar and Heatran much harder, as Dragons really can't stand up to Victini.
V-create vs. Latias (OU Physically Defensive Calm Mind): 56.31 - 66.48% - 2HKO
V-create vs. Latios (OU Choice): 104.3 - 122.84% - OHKO
V-create vs. Dragonite (OU Bulky Dragon Dance [Multiscale]): 34.97 - 41.45% - 2HKO w/ MultiScale, OHKO with SR
V-create vs. Salamence (OU Dragon Dance [Intimidate]): 63.44 - 74.62% - 2HKO
Victini appreciates hitting Tyranitar and Heatran much harder, as Dragons really can't stand up to Victini.
On a different tangent from creative abusers of weather, I have two teams of dual weather. Got a rain/sun offensive and a sand/hail stall. Naturally it uses things that can take advantage of both types, and the changing weather dynamic throws many other teams off, especially weather.
I'm interested in your Rain / Sun Team, and how that works. The most common abusers of Rain, (Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, etc) all lose something from Sun, whether it be base power of their moves, or accuracy of their moves. Sun abusers also suffer similar problems. Venusaur, Lilligant, Victreebell and any other Chlorophyll abuser lose their doubled speed in Rain, while heavy hitters such as Victini and Darmanitan lose some of their power on their Fire STABs. Keeping in mind, these are all the common abusers of Rain and Sun respectively, so I imagine it must be hard playing dual weather and making it work. This is especially notable in situations where one of your weather inducers is down and your other weather is up, which could be detrimental to your team mates, (Keldeo in Sun, Victini in Rain).
For the Sun+Rain team suggestion, Rotom-H comes to mind, having Thunder to use in the Rain and boosted Overheat in the Sun (using a set of Overheat/Volt Switch/Thunder/Trick?). Latios can use HP Fire + Surf or Thunder to abuse both weathers. Ferrothorn likes the rain and outside of it, it's running from Fire moves anyways, so Sun doesn't really bother it (plus Synthesis inside of the Sun is cool). Lastly, we have Weather Ball Raikou who can abuse the weather with it's new psuedo-STAB and Thunder(bolt).
Tornadus actually benefits from Sun, thanks to a boosted Heat Wave which butchers Jirachi, its second best counter. You're still not getting through Chansey either way, but Jirachi is actually OHKOd with 3 layers of Spikes.
*Sorry, all these calcs are with Tornadus-T. I've been using a Tornadus on my team with Prankster Rain Dance to work as anti-sun and -sand, and he actually does even MORE damage. You only need two layers of Spikes for the OHKO against Specially Defensive Jirachi.
*Sorry, all these calcs are with Tornadus-T. I've been using a Tornadus on my team with Prankster Rain Dance to work as anti-sun and -sand, and he actually does even MORE damage. You only need two layers of Spikes for the OHKO against Specially Defensive Jirachi.
Just a nitpick - Ferro didn't get synthesis from the tutors :(
The idea of a dual-abusing Raikou/Rotom-H is awesome in theory but I can imagine it would still me more viable to not run Thunder on either of them because if something goes wrong you basically lose your stab. Sorry if that was not what you were implying.
I understand the use of Jumpluff, but I really don't think it is all that good. I've no idea why you wouldn't use something like SubSeed Venusaur, who actually has better defenses. This actually helps a lot in terms of getting the maximum efficiency out of your set, as weak priority will not break your Substitute, which cannot be said about Jumpluff. The only thing you lose is the extra speed, which if you invest with Venusaur correctly, this shouldn't be an issue. The main difference between the two is that Venusaur can actually force switches. Jumpluff can't hit hard offensively, and has a terrible time against anything immune to Leech Seed, whereas Venusaur can actually hit things such as Ferrothorn with Hidden Power [Fire] to stop hazards being set up. The other thing is that the need for Rapid Spin support is greater, as Jumpluff loses 25% every time it switches in. Venusaur does not share this problem, while also absorbing Toxic Spikes which is arguably more important if you're thinking about a team with a defensively inclined playstyle. Venusaur also gets access to Sleep Powder and Leech Seed, meaning Jumpluff has very little merit over Venusaur.
Politoed @ Salac Berry
Drizzle
Att HP/252 SpD/4 Def (30 Hp IVs)
Jolly Nature
-Belly Drum
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Substitute
Not as gimmicky as I thought it was. Everyone either expects a toxic/hydro pump/scald so play Politoed predictably. I've had good success with this set as It 2HKO's Dragonite after a belly drum, (OHKO's after rocks) and can rip holes while your opponent is off guard.
Main Problem I have seen is scarfed Rotom-W and max defence Ferrothorn. So get rid of them if you for some reason decide to utilise this.
Drizzle
Att HP/252 SpD/4 Def (30 Hp IVs)
Jolly Nature
-Belly Drum
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Substitute
Not as gimmicky as I thought it was. Everyone either expects a toxic/hydro pump/scald so play Politoed predictably. I've had good success with this set as It 2HKO's Dragonite after a belly drum, (OHKO's after rocks) and can rip holes while your opponent is off guard.
Main Problem I have seen is scarfed Rotom-W and max defence Ferrothorn. So get rid of them if you for some reason decide to utilise this.
Has anyone had any success with quad-weather teams? I've heard a couple of success stories here and there, and so I'm wondering what setups people have found to work with quad-weather.
I've been testing an experimental team a little lately. After looking at the main 4 weather starters (Abomasnow, Ninetales, Politoed, and Tyranitar), I noticed a troubling Rock and Fighting weakness. I found that running physically defensive Hippowdon not only helped against random Close Combats and Stone Edges and such, but it also offered a secondary Sand starter. I threw on Genesect as well because...well, it's Genesect. It checks the game. So far the team setup I'm testing is ScarfToed/SpDTales/BandTar/EBeltAboma/ScarfGene/PhyDHippo. I've been enjoying the team so far because it gives me nearly complete control over the weather, which is a real pain for opposing weather. It's still got some holes here and there, though, so I'm still tweaking it.
But yeah, I'm curious as to how this has worked for other people. Thoughts?
I've been testing an experimental team a little lately. After looking at the main 4 weather starters (Abomasnow, Ninetales, Politoed, and Tyranitar), I noticed a troubling Rock and Fighting weakness. I found that running physically defensive Hippowdon not only helped against random Close Combats and Stone Edges and such, but it also offered a secondary Sand starter. I threw on Genesect as well because...well, it's Genesect. It checks the game. So far the team setup I'm testing is ScarfToed/SpDTales/BandTar/EBeltAboma/ScarfGene/PhyDHippo. I've been enjoying the team so far because it gives me nearly complete control over the weather, which is a real pain for opposing weather. It's still got some holes here and there, though, so I'm still tweaking it.
But yeah, I'm curious as to how this has worked for other people. Thoughts?
I've had it work quite well, It really screws up opponents weather teams as they can't rely on it at all. I find specs Politoed and scarf Abomasnow along with the sets you previously mentioned for the other weathers to work. I haven't really explored it in detail though. As in I haven't tried with Genesect as the filler but rather tailwind Castform for kicks.