Can confirm that Oblivious does indeed block Intimidate. My Mamoswine was unaffected by an opposing Mawile’s Intimidate.
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SPOILERS! [Crown Tundra!] List of Movepool Changes
- Thread starter MattL
- Start date
Dragon rage* fixed damage
I’m saying if anything deals mimikyu damage now, even something fixed, does it automatically do 10%? Or is anything more than 10% reduced to 10%?
Not trying to be facetious, but it’s a quirk that only data miners or dedicated play testers will be able to find out so we’ll have to wait. This is because in normal gameplay, Mimikyu is immune to all the moves that would deal a small amount of fixed damage (Sonicboom, Dragon Rage, Final Gambit) and the only fixed-damage move that it can be affected by, Night Shade, will normally deal more than 10%.
Since the only way to know for sure is with an intentional level disparity, however, it’s good to know that it won’t impact competitive viability either way.
Feel free to test it with a level 1 Night Shade user or something, though. My assumption would be that the damage is normal until over 10%, at which point it caps, though that is only an assumption.
From the posts on it, it seems to work like this:
1. Attack is blocked by disguise
2. Disguise pops
3. Mimikyu loses 10% of it's max HP.
It's more a condition of the disguise popping and nothing to do with the damage taken. Think of it like life orb recoil.
The true test would be to see if Mimikyu could kill itself via its disguise popping, like lowering it's HP without popping the disguise through Substitute and Life Orb recoil and then taking an attack when it has less than 10% HP left.
Would that outright unban it? Meme meta about to be shaken up.
Idk about it, as it's still basically a heavy RNG factor in what you get. Sure it's no longer accuracy lottery but it's pure RNG nontheless...
Yeah it was banned under evasion clause though right? Don’t see why this shouldn’t disqualify it from that.
It wasn't banned under evasion clause, it had its own separate "Moody Clause". The relevant difference is only in Ubers though. Ubers uses Evasion Clause, but it doesn't use Moody Clause.
Having said that, the primary argument for why we should ban Moody (which was made before Black/White even came out in English! If you want to search Smogon for info on this, look up "Inconsistent" rather than "Moody".) was the fact that it affects evasion. I am curious to see if this will indeed unban it in lower tiers.
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You can’t ban RNG altogether, so...
Smogon has a tradition of just banning anything they don’t want to have to specifically plan their teams to handle. Evasion, sleep, Baton Pass, shadow tag....
They nerfed Moody because Glalie was the most annoying thing in Battle Spot
I mean, yeah. That's kinda the point. Most people would rather not have rely on a tiny chance to even hit the opponent, or randomly get swept by a lucky OHKO spammer. And even Game Freak has implemented a Sleep Clause at some points.
Evasion is balanced and skillful, you can counter it with Aerial Ace! Not that you’ll 2HKO the clefable with recovery anyways, but it bypasses the accuracy check so it has to be a counter! Smogon just can’t figure out how to beat it, those dummies!
Also, every team should have an insomnia golduck. Ignoring the fact that most sleepers are grass type and would gut golduck on the switch, it is a counter for sleep because it can’t fall asleep.
I think a more reasonable approach to those problems would be Haze, Taunt, Dragon Tail, Clear Smog, Red Card, Roar, Whirlwind, No Guard, Unaware, Circle Throw, Lum Berry, Chesto Berry, Magic Bounce, Electric Terrain, Misty Terrain, Synchronize, Overcoat... and Golduck is not the only Insomnia Pokémon, nor is Aerial Ace the only move that never misses. Grimmsnarl has a powerful new one for a start. But if you want to use Golduck, go for it.
Haze: Cool, nice to see toxapex beating magic guard clef somehow. Guess it becomes a PP stall war. 1 point for you!
Taunt: Reliant on being faster, but yeah, this will stop both sleep and evasion, given your faster. Becomes a risky 50/50 and strains moveslots, increasing the matchup aspect of the meta, but sure, another point.
Dragon Tail: 90 accuracy lol
Clear Smog: Kind of a shitty move and doesn't work on steels. Does it accuracy check? Regardless if this is your only poison STAB it's not gonna break thru a clefable
Red Card: Single use
Roar: Yeah. Mandating phasers is kind of lame tho in order to preserve a cheese strat (Rock Paper Scissors meta of Regular Team -> Counter-Cheese Team-> Cheese Team -> Regular Team)
Whirlwind: See above
No Guard: Specific users, best user that comes to mind is Machamp, which doesn't boast a great matchup against good evasion spammers
Unaware: Uh lemme beat a magic guard clef with Quag ok
Circle Throw: 90 accuracy lol
Lum Berry: Single use
Chesto Berry: Same thing
Magic Bounce: Fair enough for sleep, but such a limited pool seeing these everywhere would be somewhat unhealthy, especially with how bad the magic bouncers are in OU
Electric Terrain: Oh yeah, Pincurchin time
Misty Terrain: Galarian Weezing despises using this ability, and manual set-up has very little return in the long run. Worse taunt
Synchronize: This is the equivalent of trading mons, not a winning exchange for either party unless you're running chesto berry mew or something
Overcoat: Mandibuzz is the only relevant user
Grimmsnarl's "Powerful" new move is 80 BP and of the weaker STAB type when it would really much rather be using Spirit Break on boosting sets. Also loses to clef lol
Basically, most of these options are either inconsistent (berries and such), straight up bad, or forces teams to adapt in such a way where they'll just lose to a regular team that isn't anti-cheesing. Suddenly the meta is much more Rock-Paper-Scissors, and matchup fishing abounds.
This is super off-topic tho feel free to delete this mods
Look I see where you’re coming from but when I say Haze for example, that doesn’t mean Toxapex. A lot of things get Haze and the move is a staple in the VGC metagame. We have to deal with Geomancy Xerneas and other crazy boosting strats, so we have Tapu Fini, Crobat etc with Haze to deal with it, plus Roar Incineroar and Clear Smog and Whirlwind users among other things. There are ways to adapt. Which Smogon metagame doesn’t do. They just complain about something enough until it gets banned.
Taunt can be Prankster’d so speed doesn’t matter.
And since when does 90 accuracy make something unusable? I don’t need to give counter examples surely.
90 accuracy attack to counter evasion is a bit silly, no? It will be a coinflip after only 1 minimize. Regardless the examples still stand that allowing cheese strats just further intensifies matchup over actual skill
I think part of the issue is that singles is more susceptible to certain cheese strats than doubles. For example, if you try to spam Double Team or Minimize in doubles, your opponent has two Pokemon at their immediate disposal to attack you or shut you down. Not only does that mean that your opponent is twice as likely to land a hit and twice as likely to have an immediate answer to your shenanigans, but it also means your opponent's two Pokemon can work together to take you down, such as Hazing away your evasion boosts and then immediately attacking. Singles doesn't have that luxury. If you get your evasion mon in on a favorable matchup, you get a free boost as your opponent switches to their Taunter, at which point it's already too late. And their Haze mon needs to also be able to do more than just Haze away the evasion, as otherwise you can just continue to boost as they switch out into something that can actually damage you.
I feel as though evasion may have been more off an issue while batton pass was legal due to, an evasion move user losing one of their slots to set up evasion. That being said evasion is super annoying to play against since if i decide to bring a 100 accuracy move i expect that it shouldn't be missing, so i understand the clauses point.
I would like to point out that all the spore users bar shinotic were cut so sleep is alot less accurate this gen that in previous gens. I remember reading a post by someone in the middle of gen 7 who thought that sleep clause should be test again since in their opinion sleep was the weakest off all the status conditions. While i disagree that sleep as a condition is weak i would probably rate it as second best behind freezing, the method's more applying the sleep status effect are particuarly poor.
By poor i mean the the 2 most accurate (spore, sleep powder) at 100% and 75% are completely ignored by grass types. The other 75% isn't even in the game since jynx was cut. This leaves secret power which is 30% chance only in grass terrain. The others are two 55% in grass whistle and sing and hypnosis at 60%. Yawn is an option but it's will only sleep if your opponent keeps their pokemon in so is effectively just a phasing move.
So with a 55% chance to hit your land aproximately 1 in 2 sleep moves. I would assume that sleep timer is equally weighted between the 1-3 turns so 33% of the time sleeping does nothing since the opponent will wake up immediately, 33% it gets 1 free turn and 33% it give you 2 turns. So if we apply the hit rate into the equation we get 45% of the time we waste a turn 18.3% we are neutral 18.3% 1 free turn and 18.3% 2 free turns. So your gaining about a 1/10th of a turn using a 55% accuracy sleep move.
Summing up sleep is a strong status, but since the move's that apply it are mediocre aside from spore, and some of the better users are absent from the game it maybe worth checking if the clause is still necessary this gen.
Just to let you know, Grass Whistle isn't in Sword & Shield, so you only have Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss (from Metronome), Dark Void? (from Metronome) and Sleep Powder
Ah fair enough, it had the same accuracy as sing so wasn't particularly for the math. Ah didn't realise metronome could call lovely kiss still. Call dark void doesn't help since it just fails if a pokemon other than darkrai uses it now. The other moves that technically could sleep are relic song if it wasn't remove or you can sleeptalk psycho shift it.
Mr mime is still in so batton pass chains still have sound proof, they still got ninjask for speed boost, xatu for magic bounce, poltreitgest can shell smash batton pass which might be broken. I have had limited experience playing against gen 7 batton bass team's, but batton pass chains in gen 6 were pretty brutal to play against. They also recently banned batton pass in gen 3 i believe (may have been related to trap passing though).
Potentially just the ability for poltrigest to smash pass would at least get that move combination banned following previous banned in relation to those 2 moves.