Garchomp can't SD seeings as I'm taunting it.
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Deoxys E Discussion
- Thread starter Peanut-Lover
- Start date
Garchomp can't SD seeings as I'm taunting it.
Well, then you're going to have to predict perfectly then. If you Taunt the turn after an Adament Garchomp switches in on your Cosmic Power when you think it's going to Swords Dance, Earthquake does 56.25% - 66.12% to your +1 Def Deoxys, a 2HKO even with Leftovers Recovery. Even Worse if it's Choice Banded, IIRC, Choice Band Outrage 2HKOs Deoxys no matter how you look at it.
Actaully, after 1 Cosmic Power, a Adamant Garchomp's Outrage does 43.32% - 51.14%, and only a 6.6% chance of a 2HKO. I can easily recover or Cosmic Power again, bringing Outrages damage down to 32.57% - 38.44%, hardly threatening barring a critical hit. Earthquake does a maximum of 43%, so if it's a scarfchomp (which does outspeed me), it's still only 2HKO'ing 6.6% of the time, and even then it needs a Sandstorm to nullify my leftovers to do it. Yes, CB Outrage is trouble, doing 65.15% - 76.55% with Outrage, but it's still managable.
Hmm...
Cosmic Power is a pretty shitty move normally, but I have to wonder if a bad version of Deoxys-L can't be made to work here. Something like...
Deoxys-E @Leftovers
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Cosmic Power
- Recover
This is generally a worse version of the old Deoxys-L set (put Agility over Cosmic Power) and has to worry about critical hits. Alternatively, you could throw Night Shade over Toxic and run Toxic Spikes on another member of your team and use Deoxys to take care of people immune to Toxic Spikes or who will cure the status they give.
All just theorymon here as I haven't battled in a while, but maybe it seems workable on paper at least. Has to watch out for crits from CBers though, and that could really be the breaking point here :/
Cosmic Power is a pretty shitty move normally, but I have to wonder if a bad version of Deoxys-L can't be made to work here. Something like...
Deoxys-E @Leftovers
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Cosmic Power
- Recover
This is generally a worse version of the old Deoxys-L set (put Agility over Cosmic Power) and has to worry about critical hits. Alternatively, you could throw Night Shade over Toxic and run Toxic Spikes on another member of your team and use Deoxys to take care of people immune to Toxic Spikes or who will cure the status they give.
All just theorymon here as I haven't battled in a while, but maybe it seems workable on paper at least. Has to watch out for crits from CBers though, and that could really be the breaking point here :/
heh zangoose will make that set boring immunity prevents toxic from working and its immune to night shade if it has it (again immunity prevents toxic spikes from working IIRC) eather you cause zangoose die to pressure and struggle or zangoose comes out on top when X-Scissor/Night Slash/Shadow Claw decides to CH ( since you didn't give EVs i have idea of what damage will be dolted out)
although this will only happen 1v1 lol
although this will only happen 1v1 lol
come on man, that's the most pokemon beats pokemon with move argument i've seen in this thread, you know better than to post stuff like that
can the rest of you seriously not post the 1-2 counters to a DX-E set someone else posts especially if your counter is BL, nobody cares and it doesn't mean anything in theorymon, not when you can test your sets now on shoddy (it's 2008, not 2007)
can the rest of you seriously not post the 1-2 counters to a DX-E set someone else posts especially if your counter is BL, nobody cares and it doesn't mean anything in theorymon, not when you can test your sets now on shoddy (it's 2008, not 2007)
Why would nobody care if a counter would be BL?
Last time I checked, most BL's can strike pretty high odds in OU depending on how they're used. So if they counter Deoxys and can do other stuff in the meantime, why would nobody care?
Zangooses problem here tho is that it might be able to break through stalling Deoxys's without the physical screen (Keep forgetting the name >.>), but otherwise, he isn't going to do much.
Purely defensive Deoxys's would need to be battled with the likes of Honchkrow, Weavile and such who can hit with STAB'd SE moves. I should prolly run a damage calculator on some of those moves, but from the Garchomp calculations, my guess that a Honchkrow Night Slash will do well over 50% doesn't seem that weird to me.
Last time I checked, most BL's can strike pretty high odds in OU depending on how they're used. So if they counter Deoxys and can do other stuff in the meantime, why would nobody care?
Zangooses problem here tho is that it might be able to break through stalling Deoxys's without the physical screen (Keep forgetting the name >.>), but otherwise, he isn't going to do much.
Purely defensive Deoxys's would need to be battled with the likes of Honchkrow, Weavile and such who can hit with STAB'd SE moves. I should prolly run a damage calculator on some of those moves, but from the Garchomp calculations, my guess that a Honchkrow Night Slash will do well over 50% doesn't seem that weird to me.
Speed form Deoxys has stats fairly close to Starmie, and similar typing as he is psychic.
Starmie 60/75/85/100/85/115
Deoxys-E 50/95/90/95/90/180
Starmie is a huge threat to so many things. Now imagine it with more speed, a bigger movepool, and the ability to be a mixed sweeper or supporting wall.
Despite that, he still has many counters for his movesets that are quite similar to things who beat Starmie.
As said before, the big thing that makes him counterable is that he only has 4 moves to work with. Certain movesets will leave him completely stopped by many common things.
The most threatening set IMO is
Superpower, T-bolt, Ice Beam, Psycho Boost.
Spiritomb should have no trouble, besides a toxic stalling version, but that frees up many other pokes to beat him.
If Hp Fire is absent, Zong, Jirachi, Metagross will have fun with him.
If Shadow ball is absent, Dusknoir can beat him w/o a great amount of trouble
Scizor can take most hits thrown at him from Deoxys quite well besides Hp Fire, and KO with X-Scissor.
Cresselia completely beats him.
If he lacks superpower or focus blast; Tyranitar, Snorlax, Blissey, Umbreon all wall him into oblivion which almost forces him to carry focus blast or superpower. Heatran does this to a lesser extent.
Its a stretch to list but Yanmega can stop him with relative ease with a Bug Buzz after 2 speed boosts.
Even Shedinja could wall and OHKO most versions.
At least 1 or 2 of these are on any given OU team.
His huge movepool causes him to be very unpredictable, so knowing which you would need to counter him hard and he may score a vital KO.
No, I do not test him on Shoddy. All my thoughts on him are from looking at moves, needed Evs, plain ol' battling, and reading through this topic.
Starmie 60/75/85/100/85/115
Deoxys-E 50/95/90/95/90/180
Starmie is a huge threat to so many things. Now imagine it with more speed, a bigger movepool, and the ability to be a mixed sweeper or supporting wall.
Despite that, he still has many counters for his movesets that are quite similar to things who beat Starmie.
As said before, the big thing that makes him counterable is that he only has 4 moves to work with. Certain movesets will leave him completely stopped by many common things.
The most threatening set IMO is
Superpower, T-bolt, Ice Beam, Psycho Boost.
Spiritomb should have no trouble, besides a toxic stalling version, but that frees up many other pokes to beat him.
If Hp Fire is absent, Zong, Jirachi, Metagross will have fun with him.
If Shadow ball is absent, Dusknoir can beat him w/o a great amount of trouble
Scizor can take most hits thrown at him from Deoxys quite well besides Hp Fire, and KO with X-Scissor.
Cresselia completely beats him.
If he lacks superpower or focus blast; Tyranitar, Snorlax, Blissey, Umbreon all wall him into oblivion which almost forces him to carry focus blast or superpower. Heatran does this to a lesser extent.
Its a stretch to list but Yanmega can stop him with relative ease with a Bug Buzz after 2 speed boosts.
Even Shedinja could wall and OHKO most versions.
At least 1 or 2 of these are on any given OU team.
His huge movepool causes him to be very unpredictable, so knowing which you would need to counter him hard and he may score a vital KO.
No, I do not test him on Shoddy. All my thoughts on him are from looking at moves, needed Evs, plain ol' battling, and reading through this topic.
That's the exact set I've been running, except with Thunderbolt over Toxic. I forgot about Night Shade though, I don't know how I missed that...
Anyways, it does work extremely well, barring a critical hit. Substitute would fix that, but there's no room for it unfortunatly. The hardest part is getting Toxic Spikes set up. Once they're up (and your opponents Rapid Spinner is gone, assuming they have one) bring Deoxys-E in. Most opponents won't want to risk a KO from an attacking set, so you easily get 1 Cosmic Power right there, boosting your defenses to 350+ each depending on your EV's. As I've shown, with equal 255 defenses, Adamant Garchomp's Outrage is a 3HKO after just 1 Cosmic Power.
AJC said:
Zangoose gets easily shut down by a attacking Deoxys-E. From what I've experienced, all of Deoxys-E's "counters" are all countered by an opposite set. Counters to an attacking Deoxys-E (Jirachi, Bronzong, Spiritomb, ect.) are all beaten by this stall set, while the counters to a stall set (CB Heracross stll OHKO's with Megahorn even after 3 Cosmic Powers thanks to the Guts boost from Toxic Spikes) will be beaten by a attacking Deoxys-E.
the stall set canot hurt steels or poisons, it can however PP stall them with presure but if they have an attack that would do >50% to 50/90/90 defences a crit will probably finish them (baring low PP moves, they may run out of PP first).
You compleltly missed the point of running Night Shade, so that you can hurt steels. Taunt forces them to attack and strips them of any recovery moves they may have, so you can just Night Shade away at your leisure. Though with Night Shade, Normal / Flying types like Togekiss and Staraptor will give wall this set. Then again, you could always run Thunderbolt for them and just PP stall Gliscor out of attacks, it's up to you.
I don't think Staraptor is as big a deal as Togekiss is, because Air Slash seriously has 32 pp and that's ridiculous. Brave Bird is a bit more sane. If only Night Shade still worked on normals...
In any case, even if you have to switch you can still Taunt the paper airplane so it can't Nasty Plot while you switch, making it an awful lot less threatening.
In any case, even if you have to switch you can still Taunt the paper airplane so it can't Nasty Plot while you switch, making it an awful lot less threatening.
True, and it can't Thunder Wave or Roost off any damage either. Staraptor will KO itself with the Recoil from Brave Bird eventually, I forgot about that before. So yeah, Togekiss is the main threat. 16 turns is a long time to PP stall Air Slash, but Taunt pretty much wrecks most Togekiss sets as you pointed out.
Heh, well something really absurd that can counter the set whether it has Toxic or Night Shade is Choice Scarf Quick Feet Ursaring with Facade.
Ursaring needs to run at least 224 speed to get to 337 after Quick Feet, which after Choice Scarf will allow 505 speed to beat out all Deoxys-S. Then STAB Facade can rip through Deoxys.
Swellow can actually do the same thing though, except it gets a Guts boost as opposed to Quick Feet, but can easily reach 337 speed to get to 505 with Choice Scarf and destroy Deoxys-S with 442 attack and STAB Facade.
Then both of them have an immunity to Night Shade, which would be the only way of damaging anything. Though, I guess they don't really need Choice Scarf if they're just going to be attacking anyway.
Then there's also Choice Scarf Lopunny who can reach the magic 337 speed and either Encore Deoxys-S, do a Switcheroo, or screw it with Thunder Wave. Even if Lopunny is UU, it still works to counter this set, even if it gets killed by the attacking set, though it can still Thunder Wave or Switcheroo quite easily before Deoxys-S can attack.
Ursaring needs to run at least 224 speed to get to 337 after Quick Feet, which after Choice Scarf will allow 505 speed to beat out all Deoxys-S. Then STAB Facade can rip through Deoxys.
Swellow can actually do the same thing though, except it gets a Guts boost as opposed to Quick Feet, but can easily reach 337 speed to get to 505 with Choice Scarf and destroy Deoxys-S with 442 attack and STAB Facade.
Then both of them have an immunity to Night Shade, which would be the only way of damaging anything. Though, I guess they don't really need Choice Scarf if they're just going to be attacking anyway.
Then there's also Choice Scarf Lopunny who can reach the magic 337 speed and either Encore Deoxys-S, do a Switcheroo, or screw it with Thunder Wave. Even if Lopunny is UU, it still works to counter this set, even if it gets killed by the attacking set, though it can still Thunder Wave or Switcheroo quite easily before Deoxys-S can attack.
really??? he will? thanks for that..
anyway, i havent battled in a month (damn halo 3) but the taunt stall sets of deoxys look so much better than the sweeper sets. im pretty sure deoxys with taunt is a perfect counter to obis annoying spammed stall team (im assuming its still everywhere among little noobies and their
mass creativity)
anyway, i havent battled in a month (damn halo 3) but the taunt stall sets of deoxys look so much better than the sweeper sets. im pretty sure deoxys with taunt is a perfect counter to obis annoying spammed stall team (im assuming its still everywhere among little noobies and their
mass creativity)
You know what is a really good Deoxys-S set?
Deoxys-S @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
252 HP/(defenses, some Spd)
Taunt
Recover
Mirror Coat
Counter
Lols at common leads if you have the prediction skills. Most things (Gyara/Mence/Weavile/Tar) will switch out since everyone still expects the sweeper set. Some things that set up or don't fear the common attacks (defensive Tars, BPass leads, anti-metagame leads) are Taunted if needed or get a load of damage. Recover lets you keep doing it. Remember, few Pursuits OHKO if you're not switching out.
Deoxys-S @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
252 HP/(defenses, some Spd)
Taunt
Recover
Mirror Coat
Counter
Lols at common leads if you have the prediction skills. Most things (Gyara/Mence/Weavile/Tar) will switch out since everyone still expects the sweeper set. Some things that set up or don't fear the common attacks (defensive Tars, BPass leads, anti-metagame leads) are Taunted if needed or get a load of damage. Recover lets you keep doing it. Remember, few Pursuits OHKO if you're not switching out.
CounterCoat is useless with such low HP. You would need to take around half just to be able to kill something with 304.
Slowking is a good counter to Deoxys,since it survives thunderbolt/shadow ball easily,slack off the damage,and kick Deoxys ass(Calm Mind to lol even harder of his tries to attack...).Just beware of Taunt.
Deoxys isn't hard.Against my pokes,he failed(yes,i've beaten him with Ampharos)
Deoxys isn't hard.Against my pokes,he failed(yes,i've beaten him with Ampharos)
So using Taunt,it means it loses a move(potencially Superpower,who Blissey appreciates it...).Psycho Boost is the only move to do some serious damage,so it never will be replaced(except by Psychic maybe).Without Shadow Ball,it's walled by Crescelia/Uxie/Mesprit.Without Ice Beam,walled by Celebi and Claydol.Grass Knot?Lanturn and Celebi again.Taunt means too much "walled" for me.
Not that you will use all on one team...
Again,at least to me,Deoxys isn't giving me problems.Wanna know what i think about Deoxys?It's the best OU counter.Too people uses just OU,OU...All of them will get murdered by Deoxys.Point.
A good team will not have just 6 OU...look Obi's Tentacruel(before the rise)and Aldaron Hitmontop.
Repeat:Deoxys never gave me problems.To me it's OU.People that tells it's broken to me uses that standard teams(which Deoxys really walks over all of them except one or two).
OU it is.
My opinion
Huh, it can easily just Taunt and to prevent any recovery and Recover off it's own hits.............................while the other take consitent damage. Hell, even Taunting a Blissey and not hitting it, you can get any Special Attacker a win against it.
Then you have 2 attacks only
Toxic/Psychic can work...but Drapion lols at it
Boltbeam maybe can work if you get any Magnezones and Lanturns out of play.
Ice Beam/Toxic,or Grass Knot/Toxic?Hell,i don't know
Probably the best bet is Shadow Ball/Focus Blast
But if you can't hit for SE...ouch,end of line.
Taunt and switch?And if the enemy switches too?
See,Deoxys isn't broken for OU.Syndrome of 4 slots(like the poor Muk)is what,at least to me,keeps him in OU.It doesn't have the effectiveness of attacks Infernape have.
Again,my opinion