Dexit discussion thread

[Nokocchi]

Dexit thread still going on, eh? *Sees current discussion* Man, I don't even wanna jump into that mess, luckily got some other topic to talk about concerning Dexit.

Well, the new games have been announced and the website essentially hints Dexit is still a thing. There has been plenty of mistakes with Dexit, but now we're about to see whether they're going to make the most damning one.

Here is a list of Pokemon that can't be transferred to Sword & Shield even with the DLCs.

GF, ALL these Pokemon must be available in someway in Scarlet & Violet. I would even say in the main game itself and not waiting for a DLC to add them.

Now, after Gen 9, if they do indeed put all these MIA Pokemon in SV, they don't necessarily need to have a MIA Pokemon appear every other gen. I'm saying they need to do it for SV because Dexit was such a sudden introduction it caught people off guar and felt like even GF weren't completely sure what they were doing. Dexit came with the risk of some of the less popular Pokemon being forgotten. But if they put all the missing Gen VIII Pokemon into SV I'll feel more comfortable with GF handling it so that no Pokemon will be forgotten and give them a leeway of two gens absence. It's not that hard of a task GF, the list is RIGHT THERE. Heck, they don't even need to be catchable in the game, just transferable.

Since it's pretty obvious that BDSP will have two-way transfers(seeing as one of the more recent patches added the Legends: Arceus origin mark and a certificate that you unlock by showing an NPC a Pokemon caught in the original Diamond and Pearl), the only Pokemon they REALLY need to worry about adding in are the still missing Gen V-VII Pokemon plus Alolan Ratatta/Raticate/Geodude/Graveler/Golem/Grimer/Muk for everything to have at least one switch title they can be sent to.

We've already have confirmation of the Flabebe line being in Scalet and Violet, which are among the Pokemon currently unobtainable on a Switch Pokemon game in any way.

 

[Yung Dramps]

They don't even need to be catchable in the game, just transferable

Actually, they DO need to be catchable for one critical reason: The encroaching shutdown of the 3DS' online services. Once Bank dies if they don't implement a way to catch the current national dex across all existing mainline Switch Pokemon games it'll become impossible to complete it in Home.

You can already see this in SWSH: Other than Mythicals every Pokemon that's coded in can be caught without outside help. This includes the available old generation starters, legendaries and various other "special" Pokemon like Porygon. Very curious as to how Emboar, Serperior and the Kalos starters will be implemented.

 

[Nokocchi]

Missing Pokemon:
-Alolan Ratatta
-Alolan Raticate
-Alolan Geodude
-Alolan Graveler
-Alolan Golem
-Alolan Grimer
-Alolan Muk
-Snivy
-Servine
-Serperior
-Tepig
-Pignite
-Emboar
-Unovan Samurott
-Patrat
-Watchog
-Pansage
-Simisage
-Pansear
-Simisear
-Panpour
-Simipour
-Blitzle
-Zebstrika
-Sewaddle
-Swadloon
-Leavanny
-Ducklett
-Swanna
-Deerling
-Sawsbuck
-Alomomola
-Tynamo
-Eelektrik
-Eelektross
-Meloetta
-Chespin
-Quilladin
-Chesnaught
-Fennekin
-Braixen
-Delphox
-Froakie
-Frogadier
-Greninja
-Scatterbug
-Spewpa
-Vivillon
-Litleo
-Pyroar
-Flababa
-Floette
-Florges
-Skiddo
-Gogoat
-Furfrou
-Hoopa
-Pikipek
-Trumbeak
-Toucannon
-Yungoos
-Gumshoos
-Crabrawler
-Crabominable
-Oricorio
-Minior
-Komala
-Bruxish

60 Species and 8 Regional Variants(7 Alolan forms and Unovan Samurott) are currently forced to stay in Home. If Legends: Arceus does not end up having two-way transfers(hard to tell since there is at least some evidence in the coding for it), just add Oshawott and Dewott to the list, too, which would increase the species to 62.

 

[Bakugames]

this is their chance to retcon meloetta from existing in pokemon

 

[Yung Dramps]

Missing Pokemon:
-Alolan Ratatta
-Alolan Raticate
-Alolan Geodude
-Alolan Graveler
-Alolan Golem
-Alolan Grimer
-Alolan Muk
-Snivy
-Servine
-Serperior
-Tepig
-Pignite
-Emboar
-Unovan Samurott
-Patrat
-Watchog
-Pansage
-Simisage
-Pansear
-Simisear
-Panpour
-Simipour
-Blitzle
-Zebstrika
-Sewaddle
-Swadloon
-Leavanny
-Ducklett
-Swanna
-Deerling
-Sawsbuck
-Alomomola
-Tynamo
-Eelektrik
-Eelektross
-Meloetta
-Chespin
-Quilladin
-Chesnaught
-Fennekin
-Braixen
-Delphox
-Froakie
-Frogadier
-Greninja
-Scatterbug
-Spewpa
-Vivillon
-Litleo
-Pyroar
-Flababa
-Floette
-Florges
-Skiddo
-Gogoat
-Furfrou
-Hoopa
-Pikipek
-Trumbeak
-Toucannon
-Yungoos
-Gumshoos
-Crabrawler
-Crabominable
-Oricorio
-Minior
-Komala
-Bruxish

60 Species and 8 Regional Variants(7 Alolan forms and Unovan Samurott) are currently forced to stay in Home. If Legends: Arceus does not end up having two-way transfers(hard to tell since there is at least some evidence in the coding for it), just add Oshawott and Dewott to the list, too, which would increase the species to 62.

Right away you can eliminate the Florges line as they've been spotted in the SV reveal. Also if PLA has one-way transfer I suspect it'd be in regards to only being able to take stuff out of Hisui and not transfer to it. Therefore, Oshawott and Dewott should be good.

this is their chance to retcon meloetta from existing in pokemon

meloetta slander??? what talk of madness is this?!

 

[Pikachu315111]

this is their chance to retcon meloetta from existing in pokemon

(Personally thinks they should give Meloetta more forms until she has one for each Muse (which there are nine of) as well as a few other things like make it so you can switch her forms outside of battle (and a choice whether Relic Song can change her during battle or not) & have Relic Song change to different kind of move that relates to the Meloetta form (like Pirouette's would change to Relic Dance))

 

[Bakugames]

meloetta slander??? what talk of madness is this?!

Meloetta is a bitch and I hate her and her orb hands.

Meloetta fans do not interact with my posts

 

[Nokocchi]

Right away you can eliminate the Florges line as they've been spotted in the SV reveal. Also if PLA has one-way transfer I suspect it'd be in regards to only being able to take stuff out of Hisui and not transfer to it. Therefore, Oshawott and Dewott should be good.

I was thinking more along the lines of how Let's Go works. Like you can take a Psyduck from Let's Go Pikachu and put it into Home, and then put it back into the game or into another Let's Go Pikachu or Let's Go Eevee save file stored on your system, but if you put it into Sword or Shield it can never be brought back to a Let's Go game again, and on top of that Psyduck brought from Bank or Sword/Shield to Home cannot be placed in Let's Go.

So basically any Oshawott and Dewott transferred to Home from Bank would be stuck there, and any Unovan Samurott in general would locked in, too.

 

[Yung Dramps]

So uh... Something I learned in a very recent conversation that has kinda given me an even more bitter outlook on the legacy of transferring.

So as you may know in some Pokemon games there's this fairly obscure NPC called the memory checker. The NPC only appears in 3 games and mainly exists to recount notable experiences of Pokemon you present to them. But when you show them a transferred-in Pokemon something rather disconcerting happens.

Yup. Every single Pokemon ever transferred to future games is canonically a Faller. That Charizard you've had tag along on your adventures since your childhood quest through Kanto in FireRed? That Charizard can't remember jack shit. In fact, it's had its memories forcibly cleansed several times by now.

Look, maybe I'm reading into this too deeply. After all, they needed some kind of way for the memory checker to be able to skim over in-depth checks for past gen mons, otherwise a fun little NPC would turn into a programming nightmare. But the way they did this levies an implication so uncharacteristically disturbing and depressing for a series about treating your favorite monsters as your friends and allies through any conflict that I'm forced to propose a far more dire hypothesis for why this line exists when there were plenty of far less morbid alternatives available (e.g. simply saying the memory checkers' powers only work on Pokemon from the region they're currently in): Unable to bring themselves to put an end to it for whatever reason, Game Freak was deliberately letting out their increasing resentment for the entire transfer system by trying to make players feel guilt for using it. Of course in practice this didn't work in the slightest due to the NPC's obscurity, and as such this tidbit is basically completely unknown despite its magnitude. But still.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

So uh... Something I learned in a very recent conversation that has kinda given me an even more bitter outlook on the legacy of transferring.

So as you may know in some Pokemon games there's this fairly obscure NPC called the memory checker. The NPC only appears in 3 games and mainly exists to recount notable experiences of Pokemon you present to them. But when you show them a transferred-in Pokemon something rather disconcerting happens.

View attachment 414418

Yup. Every single Pokemon ever transferred to future games is canonically a Faller. That Charizard you've had tag along on your adventures since your childhood quest through Kanto in FireRed? That Charizard can't remember jack shit. In fact, it's had its memories forcibly cleansed several times by now.

Look, maybe I'm reading into this too deeply. After all, they needed some kind of way for the memory checker to be able to skim over in-depth checks for past gen mons, otherwise a fun little NPC would turn into a programming nightmare. But the way they did this levies an implication so uncharacteristically disturbing and depressing for a series about treating your favorite monsters as your friends and allies through any conflict that I'm forced to propose a far more dire hypothesis for why this line exists when there were plenty of far less morbid alternatives available (e.g. simply saying the memory checkers' powers only work on Pokemon from the region they're currently in): Unable to bring themselves to put an end to it for whatever reason, Game Freak was deliberately letting out their increasing resentment for the entire transfer system by trying to make players feel guilt for using it. Of course in practice this didn't work in the slightest due to the NPC's obscurity, and as such this tidbit is basically completely unknown despite its magnitude. But still.

Idk about this.

Much as I agree with you about Game Freak's likely antipathy towards the continuation of the ability to transfer Pokemon, I don't think this reflects that. It's not really plausible that XY would be able to recognise or determine things like "your Charizard was obtained in Pallet Town, fought Lance twice, and travelled to the Sevii Islands" when you show it a Pokemon from FRLG. The only real place you ever see the details of their previous life is on the status screen: the ribbons from other regions, and the memo which states where they're from.

The lack of specificity is weird, but I'm not reading it in the same way as you. I see it differently; rather that that former life is behind them, inaccessible, something distant and only half-remembered. It's actually quite reminiscent of the PokeSeer in Crystal who would be unable to identify any details about a Pokemon caught in Gold or Silver or which had been in Gen I at any point. And that actually fits with them not being able to return to earlier games. Hell, Pal Park's tagline is "a place for new beginnings", referencing the "new beginning" a transferred Pokemon will have in Gen IV.

I don't want to seem like I'm shooting you down, because I am very much someone who wants to keep using my mons from Gen III in the present day. And the unique "legacy" and attributes a transferred mon will have over a newer one makes them more special in my view. But then I've never really used the memory girl in the games she appears in. As I said, I prefer to look at their status screens and cherish their special status that way, or obtain whatever ribbons or commemorations the games choose to give you for having older Pokemon.

 

[Nokocchi]

Much as I agree with you about Game Freak's likely antipathy towards the continuation of the ability to transfer Pokemon, I don't think this reflects that. It's not really plausible that XY would be able to recognise or determine things like "your Charizard was obtained in Pallet Town, fought Lance twice, and travelled to the Sevii Islands" when you show it a Pokemon from FRLG. The only real place you ever see the details of their previous life is on

Not to mention, the transfer from Gen III to IV and IV to V scrubs all data like met level and location(and Pokemon From Gen I and Gold/Silver have no such data, and the Crystal data is scrubbed when sent to bank). Interestingly, Pokemon from Gen V onwards still retain that information.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Not to mention, the transfer from Gen III to IV and IV to V scrubs all data like met level and location(and Pokemon From Gen I and Gold/Silver have no such data, and the Crystal data is scrubbed when sent to bank). Interestingly, Pokemon from Gen V onwards still retain that information.

This is precisely what I was getting at. It's already scrubbed from 3>4, it's not going to be retrieved suddenly later down the line.

 

[Worldie]

It'd also be pretty taxing to keep that data either.
You can't exactly "store the name", that'd get fucked up with localization and transfers between games. You'd need a table with the IDs+names of ..every...location.... in game's history....

You can easily figure how that data would be a tragedy to carry through. Would basically be an even more bloated problem than the item tables that's still carrying the IDs of old no longer implemented items for the sake of maintaining indexes.

 

[Mario60866iPod13]

I hate the Dexit shit. It completely ruined the franchise. I have played the switch games and like most of the other stuff about them like their gimmicks but the Dexit is just awful. Now Pokemon doesn't feel like Pokemon anymore now it's just like a normal video game.

Then again, I still play my old DS games and even spent my first paycheck on a bunch of new DS systems to play my older games I liked better. I still enjoy this.

But nowadays I'm mostly playing showdown a lot. It's been a hard life on showdown trying to get better than everyone else all the while constantly being afraid of getting banned just because someone thinks my opinion is too controversial.

Sometimes I secretly wish to die early so I can relieve my Pokemon childhood how I want it, not how it turned out. I grew up with no friends who also played much and didn't have enough money at first to get the right amount of games to unlock decent amounts of Pokemon and features. Besides, my younger brothers always begged me to trade them some of my rare Pokemon and I was too kind, giving them up to them. Then my prized Platinum save went gone in April 2016, and nobody respects me anymore just because I have a replica save file I created with PKHeX. Then the switch games are all anyone even knows and plays anymore and it's so incomplete without every Pokemon.

God have mercy on me and my Pokemon.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

I hate the Dexit shit. It completely ruined the franchise. I have played the switch games and like most of the other stuff about them like their gimmicks but the Dexit is just awful. Now Pokemon doesn't feel like Pokemon anymore now it's just like a normal video game.

Then again, I still play my old DS games and even spent my first paycheck on a bunch of new DS systems to play my older games I liked better. I still enjoy this.

But nowadays I'm mostly playing showdown a lot. It's been a hard life on showdown trying to get better than everyone else all the while constantly being afraid of getting banned just because someone thinks my opinion is too controversial.

Sometimes I secretly wish to die early so I can relieve my Pokemon childhood how I want it, not how it turned out. I grew up with no friends who also played much and didn't have enough money at first to get the right amount of games to unlock decent amounts of Pokemon and features. Besides, my younger brothers always begged me to trade them some of my rare Pokemon and I was too kind, giving them up to them. Then my prized Platinum save went gone in April 2016, and nobody respects me anymore just because I have a replica save file I created with PKHeX. Then the switch games are all anyone even knows and plays anymore and it's so incomplete without every Pokemon.

God have mercy on me and my Pokemon.

what even is this

Re: transfer data, I'm honestly glad they haven't put in a major effort to maintain all the info associated with each Pokemon. The franchise is so full of what I'm just now deciding to call 'essential bloat' that they've gotta be ruthless when it comes to cutting almost everything else...

...not that they've been all that great about maintaining the essential bloat (this is the Dexit thread after all)

 

[Pikachu315111]

So uh... Something I learned in a very recent conversation that has kinda given me an even more bitter outlook on the legacy of transferring.

So as you may know in some Pokemon games there's this fairly obscure NPC called the memory checker. The NPC only appears in 3 games and mainly exists to recount notable experiences of Pokemon you present to them. But when you show them a transferred-in Pokemon something rather disconcerting happens.

View attachment 414418

Yup. Every single Pokemon ever transferred to future games is canonically a Faller. That Charizard you've had tag along on your adventures since your childhood quest through Kanto in FireRed? That Charizard can't remember jack shit. In fact, it's had its memories forcibly cleansed several times by now.

To be fair, SwSh's way of wording things makes it less the Pokemon has forgotten it's past but more that it was on a previous adventure and, while it remembers the high points, doesn't remember the little things which were incidental moments. Think of it like you going to a party, wedding, convention, basically any big gathering of people doing a lot of stuff in one day. While you'll remember the big notable things that happen, you may not remember all the little things in between like the travelling there if nothing major happened, checking in, the many casual conversations, some of the meals or exactly what you ate, how things wound down and everyone going home. You don't have a bad memory, infact if reminded you may remember things you thought you forgot, but to help you better remember the event as a whole your mind only remembers the important snapshots as everything else was just something that happened in the moment but holds no future importance.

Granted, the Memory Checker says this for every Pokemon you send over even if you didn't go on your journey with them and just stuffed them in the box (though in that case there's a very good reason they don't really remember anything as you did nothing with them), but you're intended to show them the Pokemon you did go on your journey with. And your "reward" is being told your Pokemon fondly remembers the journey, but really only the major events. And the reason it's not detailed is because then YOU are to fill in that blank with your memory of using that Pokemon... and I bet you don't remember all the route trainers you needed to defeat or Pokemon you caught with it but never used; in a way the game is covering for you telling you it's alright if you don't remember every little thing you did with the Pokemon, you both remember the important moments and that what matters.

 

[PokePoindexter]

Imagine having such extra-strong fee-fees for a collection of artificial pixels on the other side of a video game screen that you'd spend three fucking years throwing a shitfit because you can't transfer it into a certain game.

Anyway, for what it's worth, if there's one thing we can probably all agree on, it's that Game Freak did an abysmal job at offering up a convincing reason as to why they were choosing to cut the National Dex. I can laugh at how silly a spinning Steelix may look in the Wild Area, but it's not exactly a mark of a quality animation (or I guess it is, just not for the intended reasons). As for "balance"? Yeah, I don't think you do that by implementing a mechanic so strong that it's been banned from nearly every competitive metagame not named AG (even with Smogon being a little too ban-happy from time to time, it's rare to see something banned that much). Personally, what I would've said instead would be something along the lines of, "At first, you'll only be able to transfer in a select group of Pokemon, but the amount of transferrable Pokemon will increase as new updates get added to the games." At least more people would probably be able to understand that line of reasoning and the pushback wouldn't be as severe.

Dexit is this weird thing where it annoys me, but the people constantly complaining about it annoy me even more. Which is pretty much the main reason I've avoided this subject altogether, and why this post is the only one I intend to make regarding it.

 

[Chadlad50]

I still think one of the more bizarre omissions is Greninja. This Pokemon rivals Charizard in popularity, and got it's own new form, that's basically a more unique version of Mega Evolution. It was confirmed for Smash Bros before X and Y even came out (I think lol), and became one of Ash's most popular Pokemon in the anime. So I'm just kinda confused as to why it isn't in any of the Switch Pokemon games except Unite. You'd think they'd just port it over anyway, even without the other Kalos starters (they did it with Charizard until the DLC after all), considering how much they like milking popular Pokemon

I'm more of an Empoleon guy so I'm not losing sleep over it, but it's weird

 

[Zowayix]

Also, going back to TPC's 2020 Pokemon of the Year thing, Greninja (as the winner) had to use low-res USUM footage while others got HD SwSh footage next to it. That must have been weird.

 

[Coronis]

I still think one of the more bizarre omissions is Greninja. This Pokemon rivals Charizard in popularity, and got it's own new form, that's basically a more unique version of Mega Evolution. It was confirmed for Smash Bros before X and Y even came out (I think lol), and became one of Ash's most popular Pokemon in the anime. So I'm just kinda confused as to why it isn't in any of the Switch Pokemon games except Unite. You'd think they'd just port it over anyway, even without the other Kalos starters (they did it with Charizard until the DLC after all), considering how much they like milking popular Pokemon

I'm more of an Empoleon guy so I'm not losing sleep over it, but it's weird

Sorta makes me think it will be featured in some big way in Gen 9, hopefully not as much as in Gen 7….. Honestly I was quite surprised (not unpleasantly) that they went with the Samurott design for Arceus instead.

 

[pharaohcalvin]

I still think one of the more bizarre omissions is Greninja. This Pokemon rivals Charizard in popularity, and got it's own new form, that's basically a more unique version of Mega Evolution. It was confirmed for Smash Bros before X and Y even came out (I think lol), and became one of Ash's most popular Pokemon in the anime. So I'm just kinda confused as to why it isn't in any of the Switch Pokemon games except Unite. You'd think they'd just port it over anyway, even without the other Kalos starters (they did it with Charizard until the DLC after all), considering how much they like milking popular Pokemon

I'm more of an Empoleon guy so I'm not losing sleep over it, but it's weird

Squirtle and Bulbasaur were able to be gotten as soon as home came out. No waiting for the dlc was to be had.

 

[Count Bleck]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561916947792482305

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561918143571800070

Pardon the necropost, but it seems that a few nuggets of info about the development of gen 8 came out. Unfortunately it seems it was a no photo/recording event, but at least this got through

 

[Yung Dramps]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561916947792482305

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561918143571800070

Pardon the necropost, but it seems that a few nuggets of info about the development of gen 8 came out. Unfortunately it seems it was a no photo/recording event, but at least this got through

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561904706699628545

This thread explains in more detail, tahko's somewhat misinformed about the whole pokemon count thing