Praying to Arceus , that Cress will become Fairy, too.I mean, she would be even better, not fearing pursuit trapping, walling latios to no end , and she's actually resembling to a fairy like creature.She'll definitely learn moonblast, so please GF...I don't think that 100-stat pixies will change,though...Anyway I am a skiploom! :p
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Discussion: Which Pokemon will Fairy impact the most?
- Thread starter bahamut fury
- Start date
- Status
Lol. Gardevoir is really good to now. megad up, psychic, moonblast and focus blast or thundershock can hit nicely.
Psychic doesn't resist Poison, so Gardevoir has gained both Steel AND Poison weaknesses.
Haxorus, Hydregion, Garchomp, Flygon, and Altaria will all see a drop in usage and probably tier. Choiced spam sets will be a thing of the past. ALL the Uber dragons save Rayquaza, Reshiram and maaaybe Zekrom will suffer, hell maybe drop to OU. Fairy Arceus and Xerneas are gonna be so common it's going to be annoying, so whatever counters them will earn a permanent spot in Ubers. Other fairy types will be distributed among the tiers, but I definitely see mega-Mawile in OU.
To all you Hydreigon naysayers: a new 4x weakness don't mean shit, really. It didn't keep Dragonite/Scizor/Ferrothorn/Tyranitar from getting significant usage, or Garchomp from being effing banned (twice!). While Dreigon is no Chomp, it's not to say that it will really affect his ability to kill things that he's good against at all, especially now that Steels don't resist his Dark Pulse. I've run into more than a few Hydreigon that threatened and checked my Sylveon team pretty darn well, fairy moves or no. All it really needs is a partner to deal with fairies that it can U-turn (or just switch) out to, it's not like threatening Fairies is that difficult.
Yep. I've already been running Zone to deal with steels and stuff, but he actually doesn't seem that different-- he still traps/kills Scizor and Ferro and the like jus like before. I guess this is more significant because it can potentially protect fairy teammates, though?
Mega mawile, maybe.
Mega Mawile is a part of Mawile. In Gen 5, it wasn't Shell Smash Cloyster that went from UU to OU; it was Cloyster.
But shell smash wasn't an item or ability.
Doesn't make a difference. If a Pokemon meets the usage threshold in any tier, it's banned from all lower tiers, regardless of any preference for items, abilities, or moves.
The staff have confirmed that this policy will extend to Mega Evolutions. We should not clutter this thread by arguing it further.
Not that they needed to confirm it. If you want to use the Mega Evolution, you need to use the base pokémon, so if the MEvo enough usage to be OU, then the base pokémon would also get it
If you think Garchomp & Hydreigon, and Salamence are dropping into UU, please pass me some of whatever you're on. It must be some really good shit. Same goes for the legendary dragons going into OU. Lawl.
Are they as good as before? No, but that doesn't stop them from being the beastly dragons they are.
I do agree with Haxorus and choice items for the most part though.
Actually, Rayquaza is similar enough to Salamence that I see it MAAAAAYBE dropping a tier. But that'd be temporary at best, a dragon-dancing user of an attack with base 180 power in a tier full of steel types just... doesn't belong ever.
Salamence is always going to be OU. He might not be the best dragon ever anymore the way he was in RSE and DPP, but he has so many attacking options and potential sets that he'll always find a spot in standard play. He's grrrrreat.
Hydreigon didn't really get that nerfed tbh. Yeah, fairy 4x weakness is a bummer, but Hydreigon can 2HKO nearly every Fairy-type not named Azumarill after SR with Flash Cannon. Even Specially Defensive Togekiss and Gardevoir get 2HKOed.
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Togekiss: 164-195 (43.96 - 52.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gardevoir: 161-190 (47.35 - 55.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Just like Tyranitar was ruined with the existence of Keldeo and Terrakion, right?
Dayum, that thing sucks so bad, I'm surprised it's not NU. That 4x fighting weakne- ohhh, it's S-Ranked in the OU Viability Ranking thread? Whoops.
Straight up, if Rayquaza is allowed in OU it'll cause riots.
Tyranitar has instant weather and crazy stupid special bulk to compensate. Hydreigon's a vanilla special sweeper with levitate. It doesn't have a special gimmick to offset its new 4x weakness, so it got worse rather than better. Still a great pokemon, though, and it loves sticky web support.
What i personally think is more significant than that dragon immunity is the resistances to both dark/fighting at the same time, which makes dark/fighting a lot less of a threatening coverage combo. For example, Hydreigon gets walled by most of the major fairy types, since they can take absorb Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse and Focus Blast (and lol U-turn). Mawile takes Earth Power and Flamethrower super effective, but Togekiss and Azumarril both are basically immune to the coverage move the other one is neutral to (not that I'm suggesting you should use both or all three in a team...).
Because most fairies are specially defensive rather than physically defensive, I think this is going to have more of an effect on special coverage, though not too much. Most stuff will just opt for shadow ball over dark pulse unless they get STAB, since ghost gets the same super effective hits while having only one immunity rather than three resistances. On the physical side, dark/fighting is probably more common, but fighting's usually on the stab side with considerably more base power tham you'll get specially, so I'm not sure what the effect will be. Azumarrill probably gets the best benefits out of the main fairies of being a physical fighting type counter, since the only coverage moves that'll hit it are uncommon stuff like Thunderpunch and Poison Jab, and it has great HP to make up for average defense.
This is getting me thinking - how are the most common fighting types gonna be affected by fairies? Mawile is obviously less of a threat, but I could see Azumarril and possibly Togekiss becoming pretty good fighting counters/checks.
Terrakion - Not sure how much damage prior he needs to die from aqua jet from Azumarril, but it's not much. Unless Togekiss can somehow Serene Grace make Stone Edge miss he's pretty dead though.
Lucario - He has steel STAB, but it's bullet punch which is usually a worse option than extremespeed outside of mega sets. I think though if he's lacking bullet punch or ice punch Togekiss straight up counters. Azumarril I'm less sure - haven't done any calculations here - but I think it depends on how well he can sponge a close combat and how much Aqua Jet does to -1 Luacrio.
Conkeldurr - Togekiss just laughs at this guy, though I think a stone edge on the switch can screw Togekiss back. I think Azumarril might have some trouble with bulk up sets with a little momentum behind them, but otherwise Conk does not like fairies.
Machamp - They both hate Dynamicpunch confusion, but otherwise both Togekiss and Azumarill pretty much straight out counter him.
Blaziken - I feel like Azumarill was basically made to counter this guy. Togekiss does a less impressive job, though.
Breloom - Opposite of the above.
Toxicroak - Toxicroak does an impressive job of absorbing Azumarril's waterfalls and being the only other fighting type than Lucario with supereffective stab to hit back with. I think Fighting/Dark/Poison even hits everything but himself neutral. Togekiss though can come in on not Poison Jab pretty well and screw Toxicroak 4 times over.
Infernape - Actually can kill all the fairies pretty well, since he's got really good coverage, but I think Azumarril will still beat his standard sets.
Heracross - Really hates fairies resisting both of his STABs, hates even more that his mega form can't outspeed togekiss as consistently anymore. At least it gets Skill Link Rock Blast to hit him on the with switch.
Medicham - Mega Medicham just shows how Mega Gardevoir is a lost opportunity, because even though Gardevoir can take most of what MegaCham throws at it typewise there is no way it's going to survive long enough.
Scrafty - poor guy...
Because most fairies are specially defensive rather than physically defensive, I think this is going to have more of an effect on special coverage, though not too much. Most stuff will just opt for shadow ball over dark pulse unless they get STAB, since ghost gets the same super effective hits while having only one immunity rather than three resistances. On the physical side, dark/fighting is probably more common, but fighting's usually on the stab side with considerably more base power tham you'll get specially, so I'm not sure what the effect will be. Azumarrill probably gets the best benefits out of the main fairies of being a physical fighting type counter, since the only coverage moves that'll hit it are uncommon stuff like Thunderpunch and Poison Jab, and it has great HP to make up for average defense.
This is getting me thinking - how are the most common fighting types gonna be affected by fairies? Mawile is obviously less of a threat, but I could see Azumarril and possibly Togekiss becoming pretty good fighting counters/checks.
Terrakion - Not sure how much damage prior he needs to die from aqua jet from Azumarril, but it's not much. Unless Togekiss can somehow Serene Grace make Stone Edge miss he's pretty dead though.
Lucario - He has steel STAB, but it's bullet punch which is usually a worse option than extremespeed outside of mega sets. I think though if he's lacking bullet punch or ice punch Togekiss straight up counters. Azumarril I'm less sure - haven't done any calculations here - but I think it depends on how well he can sponge a close combat and how much Aqua Jet does to -1 Luacrio.
Conkeldurr - Togekiss just laughs at this guy, though I think a stone edge on the switch can screw Togekiss back. I think Azumarril might have some trouble with bulk up sets with a little momentum behind them, but otherwise Conk does not like fairies.
Machamp - They both hate Dynamicpunch confusion, but otherwise both Togekiss and Azumarill pretty much straight out counter him.
Blaziken - I feel like Azumarill was basically made to counter this guy. Togekiss does a less impressive job, though.
Breloom - Opposite of the above.
Toxicroak - Toxicroak does an impressive job of absorbing Azumarril's waterfalls and being the only other fighting type than Lucario with supereffective stab to hit back with. I think Fighting/Dark/Poison even hits everything but himself neutral. Togekiss though can come in on not Poison Jab pretty well and screw Toxicroak 4 times over.
Infernape - Actually can kill all the fairies pretty well, since he's got really good coverage, but I think Azumarril will still beat his standard sets.
Heracross - Really hates fairies resisting both of his STABs, hates even more that his mega form can't outspeed togekiss as consistently anymore. At least it gets Skill Link Rock Blast to hit him on the with switch.
Medicham - Mega Medicham just shows how Mega Gardevoir is a lost opportunity, because even though Gardevoir can take most of what MegaCham throws at it typewise there is no way it's going to survive long enough.
Scrafty - poor guy...
This. Yes, Hydreigon took a big hit. But he still hits hard, and since pretty much every fairy besides Whimsicott is slower than him, they can all be 2HKOed with prediction or finished off late-game. Hydreigon's claim to fame was that pretty much nobody could switch in safely, and that still is the case... and these calcs aren't even with Choice Specs.I am chaos' bitch said:
The other bonus is that Hydra doesn't have to worry about 4MSS with Flash Cannon because Dark Pulse now hits steels neutrally (and stuff like Metagross and Jirachi super effectively). Fire Blast/Flamethrower is still viable, but no longer a necessity.
Scizor will probably be even more prevalent, if is even possible.
if azumarill really goes out of control I think we might see tentacruel become quite popular, with resists to water and fairy. Maybe sword dance tentacruel will be a possibility. It's faster than all fairies and a +2 poison jab is going to take out almost all of them except mawile and klefty, which it can still hit with waterfall.
if azumarill really goes out of control I think we might see tentacruel become quite popular, with resists to water and fairy. Maybe sword dance tentacruel will be a possibility. It's faster than all fairies and a +2 poison jab is going to take out almost all of them except mawile and klefty, which it can still hit with waterfall.
Terrakion: 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 260-308 (80.49 - 95.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (soooooooo close...)
Machamp: It has Stone Edge for Togekiss...so it's a race to see who haxes more.
Scrafty: It might get Iron Head? Or Iron Tail? Or Poison Jab? Please tell me it at least gets Poison Jab.
Heracross: Unboosted, Mega Heracross cannot OHKO 248/216+ Def Togekiss with Rock Blast without Stealth Rock.
Toxicroak: Poison Jab is impressive, and can let him beat any Fairy that dares switch in on him, even Togekiss.
Infernape: Wait...I can't remember the last time I saw one of these...I forgot what they do. Don't they use SR a lot?
Medicham: MegaCham 2HKOes most of the upper tiers. Only Aegislash (shaky since Fire Punch), Cresselia, Uxie, and Dusclops (lol) wall his STABs well enough to avoid being 2HKOed, and a couple of those are only with quite a bit of Defense investment. Still competes with stuff like Lucario and Gengar for a Mega slot, although it will wreck all lower tiers if given a chance.
Blaziken: Talonflame, not Azumarill, was built to counter Blaziken. But, it does get Baton Pass with Speed Boost now!
Conkeldurr: Togekiss doesn't like taking an Ice Punch or Poison Jab, no Fairies like taking Poison Jab other than Mawile and Klefki, which die to Drain Punch.
Breloom: Got nerfed so hard, lol. A big part of his nerf isn't even related to Fairies.
Lucario: Got better, Bullet Punch deals with all Fairies swiftly after a Swords Dance, and Mega Lucario is simply godly.
Whimsicott gets a 4x weakness now.
I just don't understand GameFreak logic. Every generation, they seem to try and mold the new mechanics and Pokemon around the competitive metagame. They see Dragons and weather are overpowered, so they nerf perma-weather and bring in a new type specifically for Dragon types. And then:
I can't wait to see how Togekiss develops this gen, though.
Either way, I can't imagine Sylveon or Gardevoir will go OU. They're just not fast enough to deal with OU threats like Scizor. Sylveon can be decently offensive with Pixilate and Hyper Voice (or just Moonblast until Hyper Voice becomes available), and Gardevoir has a nice MegaEvo, but I just don't think they can keep up with the competition. I can easily see Gardevoir being UU and Sylveon being UU or RU.
I can't wait to see how Togekiss develops this gen, though.
- Status