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Do not be afraid to ask for hack checks!
- Thread starter Werecario
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PBR catches illegal EV spreads, yes. No idea why that wasn't implemented for Plat/HGSS, at minimum.
good thing i am a natural jerk.
on this unoficial tourney here on my city(about 64 persons) there was a guy beating the crap out of everyone, i end up having to battle him and mid-battle i asked for a quick hack check, in the end he was hacking after all(more then 510 evs, A LOT MORE).
after i asked(and before they actually saw he was hacking) he and some other guys were calling me jerk and sore loser(i was actually losing for obvious reasons), i just said for them to fuck off.
hackers was one of the reason i gave up competitive, after that i never went on any kind of tourney again. also started to use legal hacks at the time only to have pokemons stored on my box for any need, i always tell anyone that i battle just for fun that my pokemons are legal but hacked.
for the moment there is no way to get a a machine that check and find hacks 100% of the time and get persons to check every single DS on a place with more then 700 trainers is probably way too much of a pain.
on this unoficial tourney here on my city(about 64 persons) there was a guy beating the crap out of everyone, i end up having to battle him and mid-battle i asked for a quick hack check, in the end he was hacking after all(more then 510 evs, A LOT MORE).
after i asked(and before they actually saw he was hacking) he and some other guys were calling me jerk and sore loser(i was actually losing for obvious reasons), i just said for them to fuck off.
hackers was one of the reason i gave up competitive, after that i never went on any kind of tourney again. also started to use legal hacks at the time only to have pokemons stored on my box for any need, i always tell anyone that i battle just for fun that my pokemons are legal but hacked.
for the moment there is no way to get a a machine that check and find hacks 100% of the time and get persons to check every single DS on a place with more then 700 trainers is probably way too much of a pain.
Just saying, you guys should have a better reason to call for one. Marriland told me that every time he was called for a hack check, he asked why and people never gave him a good response. A good player should know how much damage something should do to another monster. I saw a player ask for a hack check just because he lost to a legit opponent, and it is pretty insulting to the other player in my opinion if you ask for a hack check. You basically think that they cheated you and don't deserve that victory that they've earned fair and square. Does TPCi need a better hack check system? Yes. But it is also not the best thing to ask for a hack check just because you lost. It's stupid and honestly shows that you're a sore loser and are trying your best to advance to the next round on. When I lost, I just left it as what it is since everything seemed clean and the other player outplayed me. You should only call hack checks when something seems fishy to you, not just because you lost. Just saying...
Duy - I agree, but there's one major problem with that. Look at all the stories of illegal EV's last year and this year - Alaka's 511, Huy's 512 and for54years' 514 at Seattle, the 510 SpA EV's Mewtwo person at (Dallas?), and other stories that we never heard about.
The imperfection of the hack check and those stories are plenty of reason to ask, IMO. Granted, it's a "skeletons in the closet" thing, but I'd rather not take the risk.
I don't think 510 in a single stat is possible, hack or not.
At any rate, I think asking for a hack check is usually less insulting to the other player than attributing the loss to luck.
At any rate, I think asking for a hack check is usually less insulting to the other player than attributing the loss to luck.
I didn't have any one good reason to ask for a hack check in Atlanta either, so I didn't. Look how that turned out.
When I lost in lcq, I didn't actually believe that my opponent was hacking–I even told Marriland so. But to let it go by without checking would have just made me such a fool if it turned out my opponent DID have hacked pokemon, if I had lost a second time to a hacker as if I didn't learn from the first.
When I lost in lcq, I didn't actually believe that my opponent was hacking–I even told Marriland so. But to let it go by without checking would have just made me such a fool if it turned out my opponent DID have hacked pokemon, if I had lost a second time to a hacker as if I didn't learn from the first.
It is possible - directly doing it in Pokesav, and I believe there's an AR code that allows you to bypass the 510 EV limit. I haven't done too much with the latter, so I have no idea if it's possible to get, say, 510 in a single stat by using Vitamin EV'ing codes; however, the normal Vitamin for EV's code allows you to get ridiculously high EV totals without a code to ignore the cap (so you'd have 1200+ EV's)
Marriland is in a tough spot. He does have a lot of responsibility during the tournament, especially during the early rounds when there are a lot of people to get through as quickly as possible. Having to check every match would be impossible. Until Pokemon can come up with a system that can at least check for legal hacks in every match, there is not much that can be done because people will continue to hack and rightfully ask for hack checks.
One thing I will say is that the penalty for cheating is ridiculous. Tournament DQ is almost nothing. Make the penalty a season DQ and I think it would cut down on the hacking. The card game takes a very dim view of cheaters and penalties can be harsh. I don't see why the video game gives a slap on the wrist.
One thing I will say is that the penalty for cheating is ridiculous. Tournament DQ is almost nothing. Make the penalty a season DQ and I think it would cut down on the hacking. The card game takes a very dim view of cheaters and penalties can be harsh. I don't see why the video game gives a slap on the wrist.
Personally - what would get rid of hack checks during the rounds...make it mandatory as part of registration!
Here is how i see it could happen with a person:
I am sure that this situation will come up quite often, but it will ultimately make the game fair for all players.
Thoughts?
Here is how i see it could happen with a person:
ulti's imagination said:
I am sure that this situation will come up quite often, but it will ultimately make the game fair for all players.
Thoughts?
I agree with you on the sense of honor and respect towards the other player, but not in the sense of the possibility that the player used codes to modify their Pokemon to a legal extent, but messed up by having 512 EV's (which doesn't matter in-game). is it the players fault for having that? yeah, and they should probably be penalized for it.
Of course with all the players hacking this year I actually asked for a hack check just before the end of my match at the LCQ because I did -not- want to lose to someone who possibly hacked and I didn't detect it. That happened to two of my friends at Newark (thankfully didn't happen to me) and they lost due to not catching it soon enough and just went with the battle like normal.
Honestly, it is disrespectful, but too many times to players use an AR to modify EV's and such and screw up or the player is just straight up a hacker using AR with 255 EV's in every stat.
But hey, if the player is honest, why should a hack-check matter? That's what my opponent at the LCQ even stated. He actually understood why I would ask him due to the amount of hackers who were playing throughout all the events this year and eventually got DQ'd.
I agree that's actually a good idea. I know that Marriland has a hack-checking DS, and if the check-in folk used that (if there are multiples) at the beginning, it would save a lot of time and prevent a lot of players who hack right off the bat. And it would save time through-out the tournament.
Of course people will find ways around that system but hey, can't make it perfect. Those who play competitively know how much damage things do and if something is off after even that first hack check, they'll be even more prone to ask but probably only under the conditions that a Hitmontop's Mach Punch KO's Kyogre without a crit. lol
Agreed. TPCi needs to develop an anti-cheating policy with more teeth. I'd point out that there are other forms of cheating other than hacking, and those too need to be addressed.
A full season ban is what I was thinking. For someone caught cheating in 2010, they wouldn't be eligible again until 2012.
Or perhaps a graduated scale: If you're caught in 2010 as HagridTwin suggests, you're banned until 2011. If you do it again after you've been reinstated: Lifetime ban. (Once is an accident, twice is a trend.)
I like that we're talking about solutions to what has to be the biggest VGC problem.
The other is T-Shirts. I want a regional T-Shirt at my regional stop. Or a pin. A pin would be cool.
I wouldn't say that a life-time ban is necessary. Perhaps a graduated banning system. First time, 1 year ban, 2nd time is a 2 year ban, etc.
A life-time ban just seems overkill to me. After each offense it would make sense to increase the sentence accordingly, rather than an entire cut-off. You only live once, after all. lol
A life-time ban just seems overkill to me. After each offense it would make sense to increase the sentence accordingly, rather than an entire cut-off. You only live once, after all. lol
Of course. It all depends too on the severity and type of offense. I mean, there's the person with 511 EVs and the person with four shinies and blow-out EVs in each stat.
One was simply careless and didn't mean to gain a competitive advantage, the other is simply malicious.
That is very true. I suppose that distinction is good to make in terms of how they interpret the intentions of the person cheating. Someone with 511/512 EV's obviously probably didn't mean to cheat. But the other one with 510 EV's in each stat yeah is definitely an issue that should be punished quite a bit.
I was thinking just in general with a single punishment for all. But intentions will spell a lot when determining a proper ban.
I was thinking just in general with a single punishment for all. But intentions will spell a lot when determining a proper ban.
Both are irresponsible.
I dunno if a long-term ban could be enforced that well, either.
They're both irresponsible which makes a difference in the end, true.
How can't it be enforced that well? It isn't like someone would fake their identity to participate in a Pokemon tournament... actually that would probably happen. lol
There is no reasonable way that I can think of to regulate a ban of even a short amount of time. They do not ask for any identification proving you are who you say you are until top 16 when you get a spot for regionals. It is too much for them to take a picture of you for file and ask the people at the registration desk to compare everyone with all the hackers on a list. I can't think of any way to enforce a ban. I am in agreeance with those who say the ds's that are used should have automatic hack check or that they should hack check upon registration, but whats going to stop someone from swaping a team around until the final hack check in the finalists lounge. I believe that an automatic hack checking ds for battling is the best option. And to whoever asked earlier, the 510 ev in one stat guy was in Dallas... trust me -_-
Keep in mind it's possible for players who aren't really familar with EVs to accidently cheat using a Pokemon they got online. Currently they just get kicked out and told to be more careful next time. However, if harsher penalties are enforced they will get caught up even though they weren't intentionally trying to cheat.
This is important. I saw some jerk on Gamefacks say that he got away with using 255 EVs in every stat through the prelims in one of the regionals, then releasing those Pokemon and replacing them with the legit ones he put on his team sheet once he made it to the finalist lounge.
@ TRE & 645...
You both bring up excellent scenarios. The rabbit hole just gets deeper and deeper, and we'd go mad rooting out all the different and various ways to circumvent the rules. So to stay sane, I'd suggest tackling the biggest (perceived) cheating issue: Hacking.
Werecario has mentioned it several times now: Pokemon Black/White could (should) have a filter that prevents hacked pokemon from participating in battle. More likely though, would be a type of software upgrade to the on-site VGC battle boxes that could perform a diagnostic on your team before the battles start.
The battle boxes themselves seem to be a device that guarantees a certain level of battle integrity... a sort of, superbowl-type neutral field, away from trainers' own DS's. Of the components necessary to battle, (you, your cart, and the VGC battle box) the battle box is the one component over which TPCi has control. Maybe hack-checking starts there.
As for the poor kids who unknowingly get trash off of the GTS... that's a tough one. TPCi staff just has to make a judgement call.
As for the malcontents who mix up their teams between rounds, these are exactly the type of people who deserve lifetime bans. The type of behavior you're describing is brazen, willfully malicious, and has no place in the community. However, it's tremendously difficult to detect, I don't have any solid ideas here.
It was my hope that TPCi would require POP ID numbers/memberships for VGC players, the same way that they register TCG players. This, at the very least could be regarded as a barrier for those who would cheat. I mean, once you've signed up, you're in the system, and TPCi can track your participation. I think Japan has this type of system in place, and I'd be very interested to know how they deal with these problems.
You both bring up excellent scenarios. The rabbit hole just gets deeper and deeper, and we'd go mad rooting out all the different and various ways to circumvent the rules. So to stay sane, I'd suggest tackling the biggest (perceived) cheating issue: Hacking.
Werecario has mentioned it several times now: Pokemon Black/White could (should) have a filter that prevents hacked pokemon from participating in battle. More likely though, would be a type of software upgrade to the on-site VGC battle boxes that could perform a diagnostic on your team before the battles start.
The battle boxes themselves seem to be a device that guarantees a certain level of battle integrity... a sort of, superbowl-type neutral field, away from trainers' own DS's. Of the components necessary to battle, (you, your cart, and the VGC battle box) the battle box is the one component over which TPCi has control. Maybe hack-checking starts there.
As for the poor kids who unknowingly get trash off of the GTS... that's a tough one. TPCi staff just has to make a judgement call.
As for the malcontents who mix up their teams between rounds, these are exactly the type of people who deserve lifetime bans. The type of behavior you're describing is brazen, willfully malicious, and has no place in the community. However, it's tremendously difficult to detect, I don't have any solid ideas here.
It was my hope that TPCi would require POP ID numbers/memberships for VGC players, the same way that they register TCG players. This, at the very least could be regarded as a barrier for those who would cheat. I mean, once you've signed up, you're in the system, and TPCi can track your participation. I think Japan has this type of system in place, and I'd be very interested to know how they deal with these problems.
They could have some rentals available, which wouldnt be ideal for anyone but atleast they would be able to compete. I mean they already hand out pokemon, why not have some charizards and alakazams somewhere with stadium rental style moves? But that might be unrealistic.
I was actually surpurized they didnt hack check as we entered. I know there is a time crunch, but i know the guy behind me had hacked pokes, lucky my friend took him out first round cause he had NO stratagy..
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