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Double Battle Metagame.

kamikazeking05 said:
Thats the hoel point of using heat wave and boosting it up some. I mena if it can viably use FireBlast under regular conditions then it should be able to do the same under the sun with a 100 BP move.
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Fire blast is only used in singles because Pokemon such as Bronzong, Forretress, Skramory, etc. wall Aerodactyl. And since the latter 2 have lower SpDef, it can catch them off guard and pose a KO. Using Heatwave off a Pokemon that has a 60 SpAtk stat would not be a good option IMO. If you really want to use heatwave, why not use something like Zapdos who's fast, has usable SpAtk, and gets Sunny Day and Heatwave as well.


ChronoSquare said:
This is what I'm trying to do for the leads to a doubles team I'm planning to try and raise. With Togekiss and Bronzong leading, who in the right mind would try to earthquake? :D I mean really.

Worst case scenario is someone learning that Zong has heatproof and in subsequent battles they exploit that with EQ - having another Zong with Levitate and an equally suiting moveset (maybe have this one able to attack instead of only being able to explode, etc).

On the note of thinking about my team... sunny day seems to be really popular in doubles, no?
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I think weather just in general is popular in doubles...At least moreso than singles.
 
Double battles tend to last a much fewer number of turns, especially 4v4; weather becomes a massive impact, rather than a minor buff. I'm surprised Abomasnow doesn't come out more often as a rain hoser, especially scarfed ones.
 
Rain has a lot of good recipients, since you have Kingdra and Ludicolo as Swift Swimming Sweepers, Hail can sort of backfire a bit since you only have four Pokemon each and you're not going to be using too many other Ice-Types to prevent self inflicted Hail deaths... and if your opponent Rain Dances that's basically The End for your Snow Warning...
 
Howie82 said:
Rain has a lot of good recipients, since you have Kingdra and Ludicolo as Swift Swimming Sweepers, Hail can sort of backfire a bit since you only have four Pokemon each and you're not going to be using too many other Ice-Types to prevent self inflicted Hail deaths... and if your opponent Rain Dances that's basically The End for your Snow Warning...
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I've always heard the advice that you should have half of the Pokemon in battle with the set up move (like Gravity, Trick Room, weather, etc.) to ensure that you're not left without your stage effects.
In addition to Abomasnow, include a Pokemon with the move Hail.

Also with self-inflicting weather, Leftovers negate the loss.
 
If you have a Pokémon whose ability summons the desired weather effect, it's not really necessary to have another Pokémon as a backup. If you have multiple Pokémon on your team that set up weather (or Gravity or Trick Room), it's for the following reasons:

1. You want to be sure the weather effect gets set up in the first place; if your first weather user gets KOed before setting up the weather, the second one can pick up the slack.
2. You want to be able to set up weather again once effect runs out.
3. You want to have options concerning which Pokémon sets up the weather; if your opponent's team is full of Water-types, it might be better to have your Grass-type Pokémon set up Sunny Day rather than your Fire-type. This really only applies to matches where you see your opponent's team and pick leads before the match.
4. You want to be able to set up the weather again if your opponent changes it.

A Pokémon with a weather-starting ability already solves most of these problems.

1. Your opponent cannot block the weather being started because they cannot block an incoming Pokémon, especially at the beginning of a match.
2. The weather effect never runs out when started by an ability.
3. This is sometimes a concern, but usually the benefits above outweigh the cost. If you pick a different Pokémon to use a move to start the weather, they must pay a moveslot and a turn to do it.
4. This is the biggest downside to not having a backup weather-generator. However, an opponent's weather-based team is usually pretty easy to identify, especially if you see the whole team before the match begins. You can switch your auto-weather-generator out and back in again to restart the effect. It's very limiting and a clever opponent may be able to predict these switches and take advantage of them, but you may still decide that carrying a backup weather user is not worth the associated costs. If you find it's a big problem for your team, add a backup generator later.
 
Not sure if this is posted already but this is from Uutitan. Anyways... Here it is:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Magic Guard
Bold: 252 HP/152 Def/104 SpD
- Follow Me
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Encore
Drifblim @ Lum Berry
Unburden
Bold: 252 HP/80 SpD/176 Spe
- Stockpile
- Skill Swap
- Baton Pass
- Swagger

Regigigas @ Lum Berry
Slow Start
Adamant: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Psych Up
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch

Crobat @ Expert Belt
Inner Focus
Timid: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- HP Elec
- Taunt

Idea is: First, send out Clefable & Drifblim... Use Clefable to absorb attacks with Follow Me, and have Drifblim use Stockpile. Try to get as many stockpiles in before Clefable dies, and heal Clefable if need with Softboiled, only if you think Drifblim is beefy enough with a good number of stockpiles in. Have Drifblim set up Substitute if you get a chance, once the 3 Stockpiles are in, that is. Then, once Clefable dies, switch in Regigigas. Regigigas will now use Psych Up to copy Drifblim's stats up (the +3 Def and +3 SpD), while Drifblim will Skill Swap away its bad Slow Start to get it going.

Currently:
* Drifblim (Substitute, +3 Def, +3 SpD, Slow Start)
* Regigigas (+3 Def, +3 SpD, Unburden)

Next, Drifblim will use Swagger on Regigigas to confuse him. Lum Berry will activate (only do this IF Lum Berry has not yet been used up), activates Unburden, doubles both Regigigas's already monstrous attack and speed. With its beasty base HP, Def and SpD, it's practically invincible with +3 in each defenses, and its Adamant-Max Base 160 Attack after a STAB will kill just about anything. It's Drain Punch is probably enough to OHKO Regirock, and at the same time, heals this beast.

On the other hand, Drifblim, if it hasn't died yet (maybe still has sub if you had an opportunity to set it up earlier), Baton Passes its +3 Def and +3 SpD to Crobat, who can Roost off damage, and giggity-goo everything else with special attacks while Regigigas takes cares of physical attacks (although with that stats, it doesn't really matter)...

If you think one of your opponent has Taunt, Haze, Whirlwind or Roar, which can kill off the plan, use Gigas to take it out, or both if you fear a Sash, before they uses Whirlwind. Crobat is also fast enough, can taunt others before they get to use Taunt... Can also kill threats like Gyarados with HP Electric and Scizor with Heat Wave. The Defense Boosts are great, and allows it to Roost off damages, as I mentioned earlier...
 
Someone mentioned a similar set earlier but without going too much in depth. I will admit that Psych Up is a Great Idea but this Team may take too long to set up inorder to work like it should. Light Screen or maybe Skill Swaping and Baton Passing Marvel Scale into a RestTalkGigas might work better since it gives Milotic to Set something up like Light Screen,Wonder Guard, etc.
 
Dalevl said:
Someone mentioned a similar set earlier but without going too much in depth. I will admit that Psych Up is a Great Idea but this Team may take too long to set up inorder to work like it should. Light Screen or maybe Skill Swaping and Baton Passing Marvel Scale into a RestTalkGigas might work better since it gives Milotic to Set something up like Light Screen,Wonder Guard, etc.
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Wonder Guard?

And no. With Follow me, it works quite well.
 
I meant to say Safeguard but typos are sure to be found when you type something when your tired :P
The teams seem like it has a Weakness to common Weather Tactics, like Rain Boosted Surf, Sun Boosted Heatwave, and TR fun, which would actually make Slow Start more Benficial in that case than Skill Swapping it away.
 
Dalevl said:
I meant to say Safeguard but typos are sure to be found when you type something when your tired :P
The teams seem like it has a Weakness to common Weather Tactics, like Rain Boosted Surf, Sun Boosted Heatwave, and TR fun, which would actually make Slow Start more Benficial in that case than Skill Swapping it away.
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What you mean Slow Start can be made to be more beneficial?
 
Is there any possible way that Ludicolo and Jolteon standard double set can beat Bronzong and Smeargle standard double set. If so please post a situation. Ive thought of some stuff, just needed some help
 
1059860 said:
What you mean Slow Start can be made to be more beneficial?
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TR makes slower Pokemon go first and Slow Start cuts speed, therefore it would benefit Regigigas. The attack reduction is a bit of a let down though...

@KrackerJack: You could try something like:

Ludicolo
Swift Swim

Fake Out
Grass Knot
Ice Beam
Hydro Pump / Surf


Jolteon
Volt Absorb

Rain Dance
Thunder
Helping Hand
Shadow Ball / Fake Tears / Protect

Fake out Smeargle and Rain Dance with Jolteon on the first turn. Rain Dance activates Swift Swim so you can take out smeargle on the next turn and proceed to wear Bronzong down from there. Oh and I don't think there's a 'standard set' for anything in doubles yet, but if you mean scarf'd smeargle dark void paired with bronzong, then something like this could work.
 
a smeargle paired with bronzong would typically be lv. 1 with a sash and fake out, endeavor, dark void, filler

in the situation you gave bronzong would set up trick room while smeargle holds on with sash then the next turn smeargle would sleep both jolteon and ludicolo with dark void, not good, i'm pretty sure trick room usually beats rain dance teams without a taunter
 
latios315 said:
a smeargle paired with bronzong would typically be lv. 1 with a sash and fake out, endeavor, dark void, filler

in the situation you gave bronzong would set up trick room while smeargle holds on with sash then the next turn smeargle would sleep both jolteon and ludicolo with dark void, not good, i'm pretty sure trick room usually beats rain dance teams without a taunter
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Well in that case you could fake out Bronzong instead. Then double target Bronzong on the next turn to prevent Trick Room.
 
latios315 said:
a smeargle paired with bronzong would typically be lv. 1 with a sash and fake out, endeavor, dark void, filler
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Quite honestly, L1 Smeargle are only possible in local wireless battles. And typically the majority of Doubles battles that are played are set at level 50 for all Pokemon, regardless of their actual level.
With that said (and I would like an opinion on this), I think that the 'standard' Doubles Metagame should only be level 50 or 100 in battles.
 
Vhind said:
Quite honestly, L1 Smeargle are only possible in local wireless battles. And typically the majority of Doubles battles that are played are set at level 50 for all Pokemon, regardless of their actual level.
With that said (and I would like an opinion on this), I think that the 'standard' Doubles Metagame should only be level 50 or 100 in battles.
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Seconded.
 
Vhind said:
Quite honestly, L1 Smeargle are only possible in local wireless battles. And typically the majority of Doubles battles that are played are set at level 50 for all Pokemon, regardless of their actual level.
With that said (and I would like an opinion on this), I think that the 'standard' Doubles Metagame should only be level 50 or 100 in battles.
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Actually, if the format is the same as Japan and last year's Showdown, lv. 1 Smeargles will always be available at lv. 1. The PBRs used at Showdown finals were set up to allow lv. 1 Pokemon. There weren't any level raises or anything. This year, in Japan it appears that the finals will be played on DS which would not include the level balance, though we don't really know what they will do with the US' tournaments and higher prefectures or whatever.


I personally would prefer free battles but having the cap be lv. 50; so lv. 50 and under. This simulates Showdown the closest, so we will be more prepared for future tournaments. =)
 
Sorry I haven't been up on this for, like, ever, but I'm trying to get back in the swing of doubles and, unfortunately, I've been passed by by the transition to Platinum. Speaking of which...perhaps it's just because I can't get many battles, but I find it kind of odd that I haven't seen too many Trick using leads. Seems like it would be vastly effective, seeing as choice items are kind of hard to manage in doubles, and it also screws up Trick Room teams hard. Likewise, I haven't been keeping up on the state of Uber doubles, so I'm afraid that my team is now useless...
 
This is just an Example on how a Slow Start could be used to your advantage:

Regigigas @ Iron Ball
Nature: - Speed (You Decide if you want it Bulky or more Oriented into Sweeping)
EVs: 252 HP-/ Other EVs depend on Nature
Moveset:
- Psych Up
- Fling
- Return /Fire Punch
- Thunder / Focus Blast / Fire Punch

Porygon2 @ Normal Resist Berry / Lum Berry
Ability: Download
Nature: Bold / Calm / Modest/ Relaxed / Sassy/ Quiet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SA-/ 6+ Defense/ 0+ Sp. Defense
Moveset:
- Trick Room
- Blizzard
- Shadow Ball/ Signal Beam
- HP Ground / Grass / Return/ Double-Edge/ Last Resort

This is only a Theoretical Team but this lead is simple enough in Strategy and ready to go from Turn One. Gigas pretty much outspeed everything with a Base 30 or Higher Speed without Iron Ball/Power Item Support regardless of it's speed IV thanks to Slow Start with Iron Ball attached. To give Gigas a little Oomph, using Psych Up on Porygon will give him extra power on either spectrum and holding back the effect of Intimidate. The idea of this team, although incomplete, is to keep gigas alive until the Last turn of TR when Slow Start Ends and Fling his ball to start the slaughter. Return is Gigas most powerful move but could be replaced with Fire Punch for Brozong or turn him completely Physical by changing Thunder out for Fire Punch although it ruins part of the Strategy. Porygon2 is meant to be simply the TR starter with some Sweeping capabilities for support and the choice for the last move depends entirely on whether you want to take advantage of the possible Boost in attack or not. Far from Perfect, it plays on probably one aspect of Gigas that can eb beneficial, it's drop in speed and being able to jump between such a speed spectrums to stil be able to function in and out of TR.
 
So, with the Latis being tested, I have to wonder what effect they'll have on the doubles metagame. I just put Latias as the last member of my RD team to see how it'll work out, but I haven't gotten a chance to test it yet. I really think these two will show up a lot more often for their support options (mostly Latias for that) and the fact that they seem to do well on and against Rain Dance and Sunny Day teams with their resistances to Surf, Thunder, Solar Beam, and Heat Wave. You think teams will have to worry about Lati@s the same way they have to worry about TR Bronzong, Porygon2, and the like?
 
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