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DP Tier Discussion - BL and UU (mark 2)

Forsety said:
Sort of non-important but I should point out Claydol can recover in the form of Rest/Recycle + Chesto Berry. Or Recycle + Sitrus Berry if you feel abit more risky and want to free up a slot.
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But that's sacrificing two slots for recovery instead of one, and Claydol needs every slot it can get to support the team or something like that.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Recycle isn't implemented on Shoddy. Also, welcome back Forsety!
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Still not done?! Well thats just annoying and hi. I'm just passing through don't mind me '_'

Or, you know, you could use Rest + Sleep Talk as it's still quite effective.
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You could... :x

At the same time though you only have a 1 in 3 chance of actually pulling off the move you intended to. Claydol's offense is a little less than threatening to make it worth it if you don't hit weaknesses. On the other hand you get to keep your lefties. I'm just a bigger fan of not relying on luck, its upto what you want simple as that. Two sides of the same coin.

It's stll not exactly Recover though.
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Nobody said it was but if it works it works.
 
Rest + Recycle is actually a good idea, I think. If you're in a pinch, you won't be screwed over as easily by Sleep Talk fucking with your move choices.
 
just a post regarding a pokemon i've not seen used in any tier since netbattle, is Ludicolo still too powerful for UU? i'd have expected him to have a fair amount of counters by now :S
 
Yes, until the UU/BL ladder is in place Ludicolo is still a huge no no for me ... Rain Dance teams are broken enough as it is, unless you happen to have the right counters on your team.
 
Rain teams aren't particularly dominating in UU at the moment, as most good teams usually devote something to taking care of them, but yea, without proper prediction and appropriate counters, a rain team will often force one to sacrifice.

I'm looking forward to the torrential downpour of Swift Swimmers when the BL ladder gets set in though :]
 
BL also has floatzal and kingdra to help... the main UU rain dancers are rock, so at least some pokes in UU can do damage to them
 
The BL Rain team is basically made up of Azumarill + Kingdra + Toxicroak + Ludicolo + Lanturn, maybe a couple of other things, but all pretty counterable. I honestly have never seen Floatzel on a Rain team, nearly all are the Kristy ones.

A word of advice, don't be playing BL the same way you'd play UU. =( I'd be watching out more for Hail teams.
 
By the way, I did underestimate Hitmonlee's base special defense, but with 50 hp it's nearly useless.
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Yeah, it's not like it's Spiritomb level or anything.

Even without EVs it's not useless. Maybe it can't stand up to major sweeping threats but it can easily take a neutral special attack from something designed to wall it.
 
I would imagine that it could take at least one weak Psychic with no investment.

No investment from either side: Claydol does 57.26% - 67.22% with Psychic. And Metakid overshoots damage, but....it can take a hit, at least.
 
sanjay120 said:
Yeah, it's not like it's Spiritomb level or anything.

Even without EVs it's not useless. Maybe it can't stand up to major sweeping threats but it can easily take a neutral special attack from something designed to wall it.
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Only that whatever is trying to wall it has a super effective attack against it, most of the time. Psychic is a lot more viable now in UU. And even if he comes on an Ice Beam (for example), SR damage + Ice Beam / Earth Power damage + Life Orb recoil means it can't switch in so much and Hitmonlee has to be extremely careful saving its HP for Life Orb. If it's any other form, he is even easier to wall.
 
The point is, Hitmonlee still can't switch in reliably to most walls or attackers. It can switch in to special rock,bug, or dark attacks I suppose, but these are not especially common.
 
i have the same problem using hitmonlee is hard to switch in usualy have to sacrifice a poke to get it in.
cant help but think articuno is a bit too bulky also
 
phalanx said:
i have the same problem using hitmonlee is hard to switch in usualy have to sacrifice a poke to get it in.
cant help but think articuno is a bit too bulky also
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Yeah, Articuno is very bulky, but it's type combo is just...well...yuck.

Anyways, none of this matters so much anymore, now that we're going to start working out the proper UU tier soon.
 
I've been very busy lately so I thought I'd pop in on this thread and see how things were doing. Hmm this UU metagame I think will go through some changes once the Platinum moves are implemented. In a way I'm glad that the BL-tier testing is actually in our hands and not some far off dream waiting to be enacted (Well we still have to wait...I hope you get what I mean).

Regarding that, just a quick survey. Do people think that the NFE's being tested with the BL's will interrupt or slow down the testing of the tier? It's obvious that the majority of NFE's will not have the same effect as the BL's being tested. I don't think testing them all at once is a problem.
 
Now that almost all the Pokemon’s tutored moves in Platinum have been uncovered, I thought it would be a good idea to collect all the new Tutor + Level-Up moves for the current UU Pokemon into one concise place for easy reference.

I have therefore listed them here in order of usage last month, with the most significant new additions (in my opinion at least) emboldened for each. All the currently UU Pokemon have their moves listed, whilst NU Pokemon are only mentioned if they have any notable new moves, but I can add them if anybody wants me too. Any missing Pokemon will be added once their Tutor lists have received official confirmation. Here is the list:

Claydol: Mud Slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Snore

Steelix: Mud Slap, Rollout, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Twister, Snore, Magnet Rise, Curse

Clefable: Mud Slap, Rollout, Endeavor, Signal Beam, Bounce, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Knock Off, Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort

Rotom: Ominous Wind, Trick, Sucker Punch, Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Snore, Spite, Swift

Hitmontop: Vacuum Wave, Sucker Punch, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Mud Slap, Rollout, Endeavor, Twister, Foresight

Ninetales: Heat Wave, Ominous Wind, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Spite, Swift

Aerodactyl: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Twister, Heat Wave

Venusaur: Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Snore, Synthesis, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb, Outrage

Hitmonlee: Vacuum Wave, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Mud Slap, Superpower, Bounce, Foresight

Hypno: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Signal Beam

Poliwrath: Dive, Ice Punch, Icy Wind, Vacuum Wave, Mud Slap, Snore, Helping Hand

Swellow: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Mud Slap, Endeavor, Twister, Heat Wave, Snore, Swift

Absol: Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Mud Slap, Bounce, Superpower, Snore, Spite, Swift, Feint

Toxicroak: Snore, Spite, Helping Hand, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Vacuum Wave, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap, Gunk Shot, Bounce

Altaria: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Mud Slap, Outrage, Twister, Heat Wave, Snore, Swift, Uproar

Leafeon: Snore, Helping Hand, Synthesis, Last Resort, Swift, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb

Blastoise: Mud Slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Signal Beam, Iron Defense, Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Snore

Lanturn: Snore, Dive, Icy Wind, Sucker Punch, Aqua Tail, Signal Beam, Bounce

Froslass: Mud Slap, Rollout, Signal Beam, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Ominous Wind, Trick, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite

Persian: Icy Wind, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Snore, Spite, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar, Feint

Sharpedo: Snore, Spite, Swift, Uproar, Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Ancient Power, Bounce, Mud Slap, Feint

Primeape: Mud-slap, Endeavor, Outrage, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Vacuum Wave, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Spite, Helping Hand, Swift, Uproar

Scyther: Ominous Wind, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Snore, Swift, Vacuum Wave, Feint

Manectric: Mud-slap, Signal Beam, Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift

Miltank: Snore, Helping Hand, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Mud Slap, Rollout, Iron Head

Nidoqueen: Mud Slap, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Outrage, Earth Power, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Snore, Helping Hand, Uproar

Drapion: Snore, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Bug Bite

Drifblim: Snore, Spite, Swift, Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Trick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Mud Slap, Rollout

Glaceon: Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Signal Beam, Icy Wind, Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort, Swift, Barrier

Nidoking: Mud Slap, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Sucker Punch, Outrage, Earth Power, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Snore, Helping Hand, Uproar

Jynx: Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Snore, Helping Hand

Rapidash: Bounce, Heat Wave, Snore, Swift

Mantine: Dive, Icy Wind, Air Cutter, Mud-slap, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Signal Beam, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Bounce, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift

Meganium: Mud Slap, Outrage, Ancientpower, Seed Bomb, Fury Cutter, Snore, Synthesis

Electrode: Sucker Punch, Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift, Rollout, Signal Beam

Gastrodon: Mud Slap, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Dive, Icy Wind, Snore

Kangaskhan: Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Endeavor, Outrage, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Knock Off, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Snore, Spite, Helping Hand, Uproar

Probopass: Snore, Magnet Rise, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Mud-slap, Rollout, Iron Head, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense, Power Gem

Banette: Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Trick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Mud Slap, Spite

Lopunny: Fury Cutter, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Mud Slap, Endeavor, Bounce, Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar

Jumpluff: Seed Bomb, Bounce, Snore, Helping Hand, Synthesis

Kabutops: Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Iron Defense, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Knock Off, Snore, Feint

Omastar: Mud-slap, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense, Dive, Icy Wind, Knock Off, Snore

Lapras: Dive, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Snore

Vileplume: Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb, Snore, Synthesis

Articuno: Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Mud Slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Twister, Snore, Swift

Aggron: Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Endeavor, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense, Snore, Magnet Rise, Spite, Uproar

Cacturne: Mud Slap, Superpower, Seed Bomb, Snore, Spite, Synthesis, Fury Cutter, ThunderPunch, Sucker Punch

Quagsire: Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power

Sandslash: Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Rollout, Earth Power, Snore, Swift

Grumpig: Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Bounce, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Snore, Swift

Golduck: Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Signal Beam, Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Fury Cutter, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Swift, Aqua Jet

Flareon: Mud Slap, Superpower, Heat Wave, Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort, Swift, Lava Plume

Octillery: Mud-slap, Signal Beam, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Bounce, Dive, Icy Wind, Snore, Swift

Torkoal: Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Earth Power, Iron Defence, Heat Wave

Armaldo: Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense, Snore

Shiftry: Mud-slap, Rollout, Twister, Seed Bomb, Bounce, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Synthesis, Swift

Pikachu: ThunderPunch, Knock Off, Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise, Swift, Mud Slap, Rollout, Signal Beam

Linoone: Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort, Swift, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Trick, Mud Slap, Rollout, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb

Mawile: Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap, Iron Head, Ancientpower, Iron Defense, Snore, Magnet Rise

Bastiodon: Mud Slap, Iron Head, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense, Snore, Magnet Rise

Kingler: Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Superpower, Ancientpower, Iron Defense, Snore

Ampharos: Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Outrage, Signal Beam, Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift

Sableye: Mud-slap, Signal Beam, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Ominous Wind, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite

Mr. Mime: Snore, Helping Hand, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Mud-slap, Signal Beam, Iron Defense

Chimecho: Rollout, Signal Beam, Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort, Uproar, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Knock Off

Shedinja: Mud Slap, Fury Cutter, Trick, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite

Seviper: Snore, Swift, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Mud Slap, Aqua Tail

Raichu: ThunderPunch, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Rollout, Signal Beam, Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise, Swift

Xatu: Snore, Swift, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Sucker Punch, Signal Beam, Twister, Heat Wave

Skuntank: Snore, Swift, Fury Cutter, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap, Feint

Solrock: Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Zen Headbutt, Rollout, Iron Head, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Iron Defense

Kecleon: Mud Slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Trick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Last Resort, Swift, Feint

Victreebel: Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb, Snore, Synthesis, Leaf Blade

Swalot: ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Gastro Acid, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb

Arbok: Aqua Tail, Gastro Acid, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Snore, Spite

Golem: Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Iron Head, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Fury Cutter, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Sucker Punch, Snore

Parasect: Seed Bomb, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Snore, Synthesis

Luxray: Fury Cutter, Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift, Mud Slap, Superpower, Signal Beam

Bibarel: Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Snore, Last Resort, Swift, Curse

Bellossom: Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb, Snore, Synthesis, Uproar, Leaf Blade

Girafarig: Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Sucker Punch, Snore, Swift, Uproar

Lunatone: Rollout, Iron Head, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift

Dunsparce: Zen Headbutt, Mud Slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, Endeavor, Ancientpower, Snore, Spite, Last Resort

Wigglytuff: Mud-slap, Rollout, Endeavor, Bounce, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort

Carnivine: Mud Slap, Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb, Snore, Synthesis, Fury Cutter, Knock Off

Minun: ThunderPunch, Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Rollout, Signal Beam

Phione: Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar, Dive, Icy Wind, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Bounce

Purugly: Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Last Resort, Swift, Mud Slap, Rollout

Stantler: Mud-slap, Signal Beam, Bounce, Zen Headbutt, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar

Pachirisu: ThunderPunch, Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Rollout, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb

Vespiquen: Fury Cutter, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Endeavor, Signal Beam, Bug Bite

Chatot: Mud Slap, Twister, Heat Wave, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Ominous Wind

Fearow: Mud Slap, Twister, Heat Wave, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift

Tropius: Fury Cutter, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Synthesis, Mud Slap, Outrage, Twister

Exploud: Snore, Uproar, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Mud Slap, Rollout, Outrage

Whiscash: Dive, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Earth Power, Bounce

Pidgeot: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Twister, Heat Wave

Wormadam Trash: Sucker Punch, Snore, Magnet Rise, Uproar, Iron Head, Endeavor, Signal Beam, Gunk Shot, Iron Defence, Bug Bite

Plusle: ThunderPunch, Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise, Last Resort, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Rollout, Signal Beam

Wormadam Plant: Sucker Punch, Snore, Synthesis, Uproar, Endeavor, Signal Beam, Seed Bomb, Bug Bite

Wormadam Sand: Sucker Punch, Snore, Uproar, Mud Slap, Rollout, Endeavor, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Bug Bite

So that’s it. If I have missed anything out (or disagree with me on anything) please let me know. I have intentionally not included the new Rotom Forms as currently there is no reason to suggest that they are UU. I am also aware that UU will most likely be completely redone by the time these new moves are implemented, but I still think this is relevant to the discussion and capable of generating some worthwhile debate in this thread.
 
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