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DP Tier Discussion Thread - BL and UU
- Thread starter alex
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Might have already been mentioned but we must remember that alot of people run hypnosis with brave bird/nasty plot on Shoddy because 1. They make for great sets and you can get away with it, and 2. Some people just don't realise they're illegal.
I guarantee Crobat usage will drop once/if such movesets are banned.
Stats are from ladder, though, where I would imagine enough people know about it and where you can actually get a match posthumously forfeited if it's brought to attention. I'm sure it influenced it a little but I doubt illegal movesets have significant contribution to ladder usage stats.
I think Primeape is one of those pokemon that doesn't have a 100% counter but can be beaten by prediction (Scyther can come in on Close Combat or EQ, is faster and threatens with AA, Nidoking/queen can come in on Close Combat or Stone Edge and use EQ), in addition to being fairly fragile. Actually, Hitmonlee is just as or more worrisome than Primape in this regard (120 attack vs 105, 87 speed vs 95).
Well, the discussion has died down quite a bit, and while we've determined the tiers of a few pokemon, there hasn't been a real conclusion on some of them. Back to the list...
UU's to be tested.
-Walrein
-Glaceon
-Pinsir
-Cacturne
-Lapras
-Ninetales
-Poliwrath
-Hitmonlee
-Leafeon
-Clefable
-Kangaskhan
From my experience, the two of those that really deserve BL are Hitmonlee and Clefable. Hitmonlee plain just hits too hard with Close Combat and has enough coverage that nothing in UU can really take it's hits. Clefable isn't as outright powerful as Hitmonlee but has a huge amount of options, and the more defensive sets are very difficult to stop without a Fighting type (in UU, all of whom are pretty frail with the exception of Top and Poliwrath, should he remain UU). I'm still of the opinion that the rest of them deserve further testing, though BL does seem likely for some (mainly Pinsir, Wrath, and Glaceon).
Because he isn't popular right now. Popularity == OU. BL == strong pokemon. Thus, an unpopular strong pokemon goes into BL.
I can agree with Hitmonlee, but I have yet to get any experience with Clefable with UU pokemon. So my stance on clefable is neutral.
My mistake, it should be on the "To be tested" list.
I think Hitmonlee should remain UU primarily because there are enough counters to it such as Fearow, Dodrio, Swellow, Crobat, Jumpluff that will be all be faster and hit for 2x damage. His defenses are relatively frail. Likewise, he is used as a reversalar most of the time and a good portion of Pokes, that will be used in this metagame, have access to Quick Attack or a priority move.
Ick, all italics, I removed it.
He's been pretty good to me as a Choice Bander in testing. Fearow, Dodrio, Swellow, Crobat and Jumpluff are OHKOed with Stone Edge and are thus not counters.
Froslass has about 80 Base Sp.Atk lower than average. STAB won't really help it much either on damaging. Rapid Spinners such has Forry have Gyro Ball, they obliterate Froslass. The main part I love on Froslass is it's almost complete immunity from Bliss, her Ice Beam AND Seismic Toss won't help her against Froslass, and Froslass is able to set up spikes..
/\ Lets not use OU pokemon in this UU discussion.
Froslass has the advantage of Super-effective STAB vs Claydol (if allowed in), and super-effective T-Bolt vs Cloyster. Torkoal however has STAB overheat making Froslass an iffy switch in. I dunno if its BL material... but it is probably OU (think tentacruel, lol)
Froslass has the advantage of Super-effective STAB vs Claydol (if allowed in), and super-effective T-Bolt vs Cloyster. Torkoal however has STAB overheat making Froslass an iffy switch in. I dunno if its BL material... but it is probably OU (think tentacruel, lol)
I apologize for going off topic from the current tangent, but I would like to bring up one Pokemon that is SERIOUSLY an absolute bitch in uu.
Shuckle, with the 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpDef, impish set has 244 HP / 561 Def / 541 SpDef.
The water attackers in uu, for the most part, aren't very intimidating offensively, and most of the rock attackers require setting up a swords dance or curse, which will be answered with an encore.
The basic toxic / rest / encore / knock off is enough to completely stall a UU team, especially if Shuckle is paired with Quagsire.
In fact, the only reason I was able to defeat my opponent's Shuckle today was due to a Guts boosted, Swords Danced Iron Tail from my Raticate after Stealth Rock's damage and Spikes' damage had initially taken 50% from Shuckle. That actually seems to be the only to effctively beat it...set up Stealth Rock, 3 layers of Spikes and hopefully have your opponent switch Shuckle into a swords dance.
Shuckle, with the 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpDef, impish set has 244 HP / 561 Def / 541 SpDef.
The water attackers in uu, for the most part, aren't very intimidating offensively, and most of the rock attackers require setting up a swords dance or curse, which will be answered with an encore.
The basic toxic / rest / encore / knock off is enough to completely stall a UU team, especially if Shuckle is paired with Quagsire.
In fact, the only reason I was able to defeat my opponent's Shuckle today was due to a Guts boosted, Swords Danced Iron Tail from my Raticate after Stealth Rock's damage and Spikes' damage had initially taken 50% from Shuckle. That actually seems to be the only to effctively beat it...set up Stealth Rock, 3 layers of Spikes and hopefully have your opponent switch Shuckle into a swords dance.
There's nothing wrong with stall. Knocking off the opponent's items and causing them to eat half their life in spikes/SR switch-ins or Toxic is not just some parlor trick, it's real, game-winning damage.
I use SToss/Night Shade to make sure I get the 3HKO (though most of the time it's a 2HKO thanks to SR).
I use SToss/Night Shade to make sure I get the 3HKO (though most of the time it's a 2HKO thanks to SR).
I agree. Also STAB Ice Beam. Destiny Bond helps it as a last resort. It can also parafuse and set up Spikes, although that is seen on a lesser extent.
It's a really versatile pokémon that has many utilities. Boltbeam, Parafusing, using Spikes, and Destiny Bond really makes this Pokémon something to really consider.
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