england riots

phalanx

people care too much about what the police do... so they cant acctually give them what they deserve.
and 3 people were killed defending thier property apparantly
and as for the government, tories are and always will be in lala richland
 
Bam

Bam

Regardless if I owned a shop or not, I would gather together as many of my friends as possible and simply guard local shops. It's entirely ridiculous that this has gone on as long as it has. For the moment, the government should stop worrying about PC and possible "police brutality" (oh no the police used tear gas on us now we'll sue their asses!!) and stomp this shit down. It is the job of the government to protect its people (including their possessions), and right now they're failing.

Three men have been killed defending their shops and the number of rioters continues to grow.
 

Iamslow

This is no time for England's government to loose it's cool and start knocking heads with reckless abandon. Borderline police brutality is just going to dump more fuel on the fire and endanger more lives.
 
Ramblin Wreck

Ramblin Wreck

Is this also from the England riots?



Anyone have any idea how long this is going to last? Is it still spreading or are people kind of burning out (pun semi-intended)?
 
Umbreon Dan

Umbreon Dan

is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

"People should be in no doubt that we will do everything necessary to restore order to Britain's streets and make them safe for the law-abiding."
 

versailles

London Riots 2011: Why Don’t Such Things Happen in America?

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/195723/20110810/uk-riots-london-income-inequality-us-police.htm

The ongoing civil disturbances in Great Britain have entered their fifth day, wreaking widespread havoc on shopkeepers, homeowners and police who have become overwhelmed by the sheer scale of lawlessness.

Such rioting and looting are not new to urban Britain, although the current conflagration has the potential to escalate into the worst civil disorder in living memory. There were similar riots during the long, hot summer of 1981 (and lesser street conflicts in subsequent years, particularly in 1985 and 2001).

However, as a resident of the United States for many years, I am puzzled as to why such disorders do not happen in America.

After all, the same potent brew of factors that have led to the UK riots -- racial tension, high unemployment, widening income gap between rich and poor, worsening economy, hopelessness among youth -- exist in the U.S., in some cases to a much greater extent.

Still, the only large-scale civil disturbance I can recall in the U.S. were the riots that convulsed Los Angeles in April 1992 after four police officers were acquitted of brutally beating black motorist Rodney King (an incident that was videotaped and sparked fury around the world).

In the L.A. episode, thousands of mostly black and Hispanic youths took out their frustrations against what they viewed as a prejudiced police force and a society they felt was determined to keep them marginalized. Ironically, the looters destroyed much of their own neighborhoods and turned against Asian (most Korean) shopkeepers who had established businesses in poor areas.

These same factors exist in virtually every major American city – but nothing like those riots in Los Angeles have occurred anywhere in this country in the past two decades.

What can explain this?

Rioting has been as American as apple pie. In the 19th century, public demonstrations of violence were quite common, particularly in the large Northern cities where a large and poor immigrant workforce felt besieged and exploited by company bosses.

And, of course, race-related riots scarred the American landscape for much of the 19th and 20th centuries.

Moreover, the U.S. has hardly been immune to crime and violence -- quite the contrary, criminal acts have practically become part of the nation’s very landscape. Drug epidemics (heroin in the 1950s and 1960s; angel dust in the 1970s; crack cocaine in the 1980s and early 1990s) created a whole new chapter of unprecedented crime and violence across major cities.

But for the past 20 years … it’s been rather quiet on American streets.*

Are British youth simply more politically engaged?

A British blogger wrote of the factors behind the riots: “Cuts to everything, including welfare and education, have created an atmosphere where the poor and alienated feel that the basic means to the ends of success are no longer available. Moreover, at the same time that austerity is expected of the poor, who are simply meant to swallow their lack of opportunity, it is, of course, business as usual for the rich who continue to consume and the mass media which persists in selling everybody a consumer fantasy. “

This scenario could apply almost perfectly in the U.S.
Sean Snaith, an economics professor at the University of Central Florida, opines that the United States has “a large middle class and generally a standard of living that even for the lower class, is far superior to that of billions around the world.”

Snaith adds: “One thing America does offer is a chance to transcend the socioeconomic class into which you are born. I feel that in the U.S. anyone has the chance to work hard so that you, and maybe more importantly your children, can have a better life. This fact quells some of the discontent that inequalities in wealth in the U.S. might otherwise foment.”

Vivien Goldman, the adjunct professor of punk and reggae at New York University's Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music, and who has written extensively about British youth culture, feels there is a difference in mentality between Americans and Europeans that has created this difference in behavior over social inequalities.

“Young Europeans regard it as their natural right to take to the streets to protest injustice; Young Americans don't,” she said.

“They [the Americans] used to back in the 1960s, when almost everywhere was aflame with riots; but now they've lost the taste for it.”

Perhaps apathy among American youth also plays a role.

Goldman asks plaintively: “Where is today's committed youth [in the U.S.]? OK, American kids cluster online and sign petitions -- but where is the nitty-gritty hand-fighting on the barricades?”

She added that while there are always some activists in every generation, “many kids today can't be bothered. Some feel that America's big battles, i.e. civil rights, [have been] won, or on the way to being so, and even if they would like to see social progress, they still haven't found their own front line. Many others are basically lulled by the myriad pleasure resources now available into just wanting more stuff and more fun, as opposed to [fighting for more] complicated things like world peace.”

Indeed, the American Dream still gleams, she asserts, and street-fighting evidently seems too “confrontational” a method to attain such things.

“In that sense, maybe young Americans still believe in the system,” she stated.

On the flip-side of that argument lies the perception that U.S. youth have no faith in the system and have long since given up trying to change a deeply-engrained capitalist structure.

“Many kids feel they have no stake in the system and have no personal power,” Goldman stated.

Separately, different attitudes towards policing also are a key factor in this discussion.

“Police [in the U.S.] are also more willing to use lethal force than in some European countries,” Snaith said.

Goldman concurs: “The biggest reason that American youths do not take to the streets to show their displeasure is that here, the police carry guns and in Britain they do not. The single shooting that sparked days of rioting in London would have been just one among many in New York.”

*However, in the early 1990s, some days of rioting did take place in the Crown Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn, N.Y. in a conflict between Orthodox Jews and Afro-Carribeans. That imbroglio claimed some lives, but was largely confined to that neighborhood.
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correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure shit like this is happening in the USA right now
 

Wikey

How even when you have a good point do you manage to present it in such an awful way and then throw in some Glenn Beck level neocon insanity?

You are right that the main force behind these riots is probably welfare queens looking for an excuse to loot. You are right that welfare queens are a real thing. Then you go off on some rant insinuating that all poor people are lazy and all rich people are hard workers. No. There is a serious problem in every country of the world with the rich making the rules and so stacking the deck so that they stay rich and the poor stay poor. It has been this way since time began and now would be a good time to change it.

I too find it funny that like the LA race riots the main victims of the crime and violence are people no better off than the rioters. (Asian shop owners)
 

sbc

Deck Knight I'm afraid you're talking nonsense here. You're talking about the Eurozone and Greece, can you please show me the relevance? The UK isn't in the Eurozone nor are these riots austerity-related at all.

It's clear that the rioters are motivated by consumerism rather than anything political. Once they saw the police were slow to react the riots spread when they realised that they could get free shit and not get caught.

If you knew London, you'd know that these riots are taking place in the poorest areas of London. I do agree that somewhere along the line that these people cannot grasp the concept of working and then using the proceeds out of your hard work to spend leisurely. Mainly because these people are poor and have probably never worked for a prolonged stretch in their life and are receiving benefits. Hence taking for granted many things in life meaning that they have no qualms about looting and criminal damage particularly those growing up with absent or feckless parents unable to teach them any better.

That is the reality of the situation. But DK you have no idea of the realities of a person growing up in poverty, only your surburban-sheltered right-wing stereotypes that demonises the poorest in order to justify why the more wealthy should pay less in tax. Because another reality is that if you are born poor, you will end up poor throughout your life. Most state schools in poor areas are failing pools of underachievement so good luck getting decent qualifications. You may grow up on a multi-storey council block somewhere surrounded by drugs and gangs so I wish further luck in trying to stay away from these. Even more so if your parents are absent through no fault of your own. I guarantee that these people will not be living better lives (through legit means) than you when job seekers allowance for a single person is £40 or so a week.

Cutting welfare allowance would be counter productive and would just further ghettoise and isolation these communities and would probably give them a legitimate reason to actually protest and would let Britain enjoy the crime rates, murder rates and incarceration rates of the US.
 

Reliking

Wikey said:
I too find it funny that like the LA race riots the main victims of the crime and violence are people no better off than the rioters. (Asian shop owners)
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Ok my last post got deleted but.

Angry thugs try to steal and destroy everything you have worked on the past 20 years. They are armed and can kill you. (NOTE: YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG)

Why not shoot?

Seriously, do you expect the Koreans to lay there and let everything crumble around them? NO! They stayed there and fought and defended their rights.

God.
 
monkfish

monkfish

what are birds? we just don't know.
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Reliking said:
Ok my last post got deleted but.

Angry thugs try to steal and destroy everything you have worked on the past 20 years. They are armed and can kill you. (NOTE: YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG)

Why not shoot?

Seriously, do you expect the Koreans to lay there and let everything crumble around them? NO! They stayed there and fought and defended their rights.

God.
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you have completely misinterpreted his post and tied it back to something hugely irrelevant. gj.

wikey is merely commenting on the fact that in both of these riot scenarios, the people who lost the most were not very much better off than the rioters themselves.

dont make me delete another of your posts.
 
November Blue

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
is a Contributor Alumnus
monkfish said:
on the contrary, these rioters are the state-funded spawn of the welfare generation. they have no interest in their community not because their community does nothing for them, but because they have nothing to gain from doing so - they rely on the state to look after them rather than their community.
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Fish hit the nail on the head here. This is exactly why people are rioting. These people just don't care about anyone or anything outside their monkeysphere. Community is becoming a thing of the past.

jrrrrrrr said:
society where status is indicated by what you own.
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I may be misreading this, but are you saying that Britain is a society based on materialism? I know that class distinction is prominent, but it seems a little "out of character" to me. I don't know too much about British politics/socialism though, so I'm probably somewhat ignorant.

I could never imagine this happening in Australia. Our government is a democracy, and class separation is barely acknowledged anymore.
 
November Blue

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
is a Contributor Alumnus
Not really. Almost anyone has the power to become politically engaged and have their say. If anyone would start a politically motivated protest/riot in Australia, it'd be the parents of working class families.

Most Australian riots are protests that escalated due to alcoholism/racism, not instigated by a sense of political helplessness.
 
Thorns

Thorns

JT Swift said:
Not really. Almost anyone has the power to become politically engaged and have their say. if they have money If anyone would start a politically motivated protest/riot in Australia, it'd be the trade unions

Most Australian riots are protests that escalated due to alcoholism/racism, not instigated by a sense of political helplessness.
Click to expand...
 
Lee

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Not really. Almost anyone has the power to become politically engaged and have their say. If anyone would start a politically motivated protest/riot in Australia, it'd be the parents of working class families.
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how is this overly different from the Macquarie Fields riots which, as you can see by the link I posted, came about as a result of police action causing the death of three young men? As if that wasn't a good enough comparison, it should also be noted that the Macquarie Fields area suffered from a high rate of unemployment and housed a large number of 'low-income and disadvantaged families.' You're claiming you can't imagine this ever happening in Australia when as far as I can tell, almost the exact same thing happened a mere 6 years ago (albeit admittedly on a smaller scale).

i'm not trying to pass the buck here but dude, pull your head out your arse.
 
November Blue

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
is a Contributor Alumnus
Ah, thanks Thorns.

And Lee, before you posted that link I'd never heard about the Macquarie field riots. Take from that what you will.
 
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