I think its great set up move and bulk might make up for it. Heck, it's probably better than Gigigear because it can set up easier.
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Eviolite
- Thread starter Garganator
- Start date
I think its great set up move and bulk might make up for it. Heck, it's probably better than Gigigear because it can set up easier.
The first test was a mistake, which was corrected by the second test.
Gigigear is better for any offensive set, especially since Gigigear can still use an item.
Gigear is bulkier, but I don't think that'll help enough. Most Pokemon with the stone are best as walls.
Granted. You asked what Gigear did, not what did it better. :V
It certainly helps. And if not that, Gigigear could also hold a Steel Plate or something.
What's more significant is the difference in Speed. Gigigear has base 90 Speed, but Gigear has only base 50 Speed. That's a big difference, especially for a setup sweeper.
True, but I still believe Gigear holds the Bulky Sweeper position above Gigigear. Those defenses are really, really nice; as I said previously, better than Bronzong's. This lets it set up more than Gigigear could. It also takes priority moves better, which is a big bonus when it comes to Mach Punch.
If Gigear gets a second Gear Change, it'll have at maximum 654 Speed compared to Gigigear's 612. I don't think there's much that falls between those two tiers. On the other hand, Gigear's 436 Speed after just one Gear Change, if it never manages to get the second, could cause serious problems with Choice Scarf users.
Also relevant is its Attack. With max Attack, Gigear reaches 426 Attack after one Gear Change and 568 Attack after two Gear Changes. Gigigear, on the other hand, reaches 492 Attack after one Gear Change and 639 Attack after a Gear Change with a Life Orb. By the same token, Gigigear can use Gear Saucer with the equivalent of 590 Attack after one Gear Change with a Steel Plate.
And getting a second Gear Change isn't to be taken for granted in the first place, even with the increased defenses. It means letting your opponent hit you twice when you might have only had to let them hit you once, or letting them hit you once when you might not have had to let them hit you at all. So I don't think Gigear is ever going to be used over Gigigear as a sweeper.
That's not true at all. Many pre-evolutions can't match the defenses of their evolutions even with the item, and even if they can, there's the matter of other stats also being notably lower, possibly decreased movepools, and lack of an item. The Pokemon that seems to come closest to outclassing its evolution is Dusclops, because it was originally designed to be a fully evolved wall and its stats didn't change much upon evolution to Dusknoir, and even then, the difference in Attack is enough for Dusknoir to do quite a bit that Dusclops can't. A few Pokemon may be better than their evolutions now, but even then, the evolutions will likely still see use in their original roles.
So let's say Gigear can take two hits to Gigigear's one (which is fairly likely. You'll want to switch in to something Gigear stops, say, special Venasaur, or a toxic staller. Then they'll switch in something that can take care of both of them, but Gigear will most likely be able to take it while Gigigear won't.) That's 654 speed and 568 attack (still with great defenses) versus 612 speed and 639 attack with mediocre defenses and a far more crippled HP. Of course, both seem quite effective, but when you think about their limited movepool, staying alive seems far more important than hitting hard..
(Also, what EVs and Natures were you running with those calculations, Thorhammer?)
(Also, what EVs and Natures were you running with those calculations, Thorhammer?)
With this item Hoiija can be a decent Spiker and T-Spiker and Tesshido can be good with S-R and Spikes, it can be a good opportunity for the stall.
This could really help Eevee in Little Cup.
Sadly, you can't hold two items (Pre-evolution Stone and Choice Band) at once.
Except it doesn't work that way. Say they switch to an Infernape. Gigigear will have already set up on the switch, so it can simply attack and probably KO Infernape, assuming it has a super effective move. Gigear, on the other hand, will have to get its second Gear Change while being attacked by Infernape, forcing it to take a Close Combat or Fire Blast. Even if it survives, Gigear will be the one much less able to take attacks later during the sweep, even taking into account Gigigear's worse defenses and Life Orb. And, of course, this certainly doesn't just apply to opponents with an Infernape; plenty of things pose just as much of a threat.
My calculations assumed 252 EVs and positive nature. Admittedly, they can't have a positive nature for both stats, but I don't think it changes much.
As I said, it doesn't matter what it is. It applies for anything that can hit them hard with a super effective move, which is a lot of things.
Super effective moves aren't necessary if you have 639 Attack facing something with 76/71/71 defenses. Return can OHKO Infernape even with no previous damage, and has a 100% chance of OHKOing it after Stealth Rock. Admittedly, that example is a bit specific to Infernape, but it's the same idea.
If you're looking got a bulky sweeper, look for another Pokemon. Gigigear is only useful because of Gear Change. If you aren't going to make use of the boosts provided by it, you're better off using something capable of using better moves.
The problem is that if you force something out, when you use Gear Change once (on the switch) and try to sweep, you don't get damaged while setting up and might have to eat an attack from some of your opponent's pokes that are sufficiently bulky to survive a hit, which may or may not have a powerful attack against Gigigear.
If you use Gigear and Gear Change twice (once on the switch and again on the subsequent turn), you have to eat an attack from your opponent's best counter to Gigear, which, if your opponent is playing smart, WILL have a powerful attack against it.
And that difference of where you take the damage from (from its counter while setting up vs some wall that can take a boosted attack) could easily offset the defense boost from pre-evo stone.
My argument is that if you use Gear Change multiple times, you'll take so much damage while setting up that the defensive boosts won't matter, and Gigear's offense isn't any better, either. And if you only use Gear Change once, there's no point in using Gigear at all. Only Gigigear has the offensive stats to reap enough benefit from Gear Change to make up for its horrible movepool.
How's Rhydon?
Considering Pre-Evolution Stone only allows Rhydon to take SE hits 12.5% better than Solid Rock Rhyperior (assuming the same Defenses) and Rhyperior can run another item, I don't think Rhydon is outclassing Rhyperior unless they get Head Smash (which would make Rock Head useful).