Metagame Fortemons

Is there a bug with status effects from item-moves?

I have a Zapdos @ Discharge, and while its Volt Switch paralyzes as you would expect, Heat Wave NEVER paralyzes, I only get the occasional burn. According to the metagame description, Heat Wave should have both a 30% paralyze and a 10% burn ratio.
 
Semako said:
Is there a bug with status effects from item-moves?

I have a Zapdos @ Discharge, and while its Volt Switch paralyzes as you would expect, Heat Wave NEVER paralyzes, I only get the occasional burn. According to the metagame description, Heat Wave should have both a 30% paralyze and a 10% burn ratio.
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For your first question, use this: Bug type moves. If you see, Steamroller and Signal Beam both have secondary effects. But they do also have low BP.

For your second, maybe you're unlucky or some other effect was preventing paralyze.
 
How about some decreased prio to hit lele and tsareena? Splash this on your team for some emergency prio for things like blacephalon while not being entirely crippled by prio blockers.

Mamoswine @ iceshard
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Avalanche
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
 
Alright everyone, I've made some changes to the viability rankings, but I'm still very open to suggestions.
{Sidenote: I'd also like to see this on like the front page of the fortemons meta, regardless of whether you'd like to give me creds for making it or not}
 
I've been running a webs team for a bit and I've found a heatran set that is more fun and gimmicky than effective,

Heatran @ Eruption
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Would eruption scale the BP of the moves?
 
Nevermor3 said:
I've been running a webs team for a bit and I've found a heatran set that is more fun and gimmicky than effective,

Heatran @ Eruption
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Would eruption scale the BP of the moves?
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Yeah that's exactly what it does. Idk if heatran is even the best user of this set, but it would work with some wish support
 
Alright, as announced I've been looking at priority and return, and have decided to ban both. Tagging Kris to implement.

Return / Frustration: Both of these had many unintended effects on the metagame. They could powerup moves that were banned from items (like Power-Up Punch), and also buff priority without actually making the entire set walled. Most people who I've talked to agree that this needed to be banned, and I think so too.

+1 (and up) Priority: This one is a little more controversial, but I highly believe that the metagame shouldn't be centered just around Tapu Lele and running priority. All teams are required to have something immune to immunity to not just be swept by it, and Pinsir even has Mold Breaker allowing only Tapu Lele to really check it. So, these were banned too.

We'll be looking at further bans after some metagame development next, although I hope no other Move bans will have to be made. Pokemon bans / move unbans could happen later.
 
Snaquaza said:
Alright, as announced I've been looking at priority and return, and have decided to ban both. Tagging Kris to implement.

Return / Frustration: Both of these had many unintended effects on the metagame. They could powerup moves that were banned from items (like Power-Up Punch), and also buff priority without actually making the entire set walled. Most people who I've talked to agree that this needed to be banned, and I think so too.

+1 (and up) Priority: This one is a little more controversial, but I highly believe that the metagame shouldn't be centered just around Tapu Lele and running priority. All teams are required to have something immune to immunity to not just be swept by it, and Pinsir even has Mold Breaker allowing only Tapu Lele to really check it. So, these were banned too.

We'll be looking at further bans after some metagame development next, although I hope no other Move bans will have to be made. Pokemon bans / move unbans could happen later.
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This is going to shake up the meta so much
 
How does Retaliate work in this OM? If I memento into my Crawdaunt, for example (given that Crawdaunt's "item" is Retaliate), will its moves receive a x2 boost? Or is it one of those moves without an affect / that's banned?

This replay shows Crawdaunt's Crunch doing like 59.
1541643762698.png
 
Given the imminent ban on priority attacks as Fortes, I may as well share my favourite Tapu Koko set on priority spam teams:

Tapu Koko @ quickattack
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 4 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Wild Charge
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt/Roost/Defog

The nature could be speed-lowering, but I like my status move to go first sometimes. The 4 Speed EVs are for speed creep among priority users.

This Tapu Koko is meant to OHKO (non-bulky) Tapu Lele, at least on the revenge kill:
252+ Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele in Electric Terrain: 282-333 (100.3 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Thus, this Koko is forced to be physical. The priority attack as Forte is to ensure Choice Scarf Lele gets surprise OHKO'd.

U-turn lets this guy be a great scout/lead. HP Ice 2HKOs Lando-T, yadda yadda. I rarely use the fourth slot, but Defog is a good choice if nobody else can remove hazards, Taunt tries to shut down Spit Up-Forte mons/prevent Sticky Web/etc., and Roost recovers health.
 
Snaquaza said:
Alright, as announced I've been looking at priority and return, and have decided to ban both. Tagging Kris to implement.

Return / Frustration: Both of these had many unintended effects on the metagame. They could powerup moves that were banned from items (like Power-Up Punch), and also buff priority without actually making the entire set walled. Most people who I've talked to agree that this needed to be banned, and I think so too.

+1 (and up) Priority: This one is a little more controversial, but I highly believe that the metagame shouldn't be centered just around Tapu Lele and running priority. All teams are required to have something immune to immunity to not just be swept by it, and Pinsir even has Mold Breaker allowing only Tapu Lele to really check it. So, these were banned too.

We'll be looking at further bans after some metagame development next, although I hope no other Move bans will have to be made. Pokemon bans / move unbans could happen later.
Click to expand...
Finally! Return and priority was the 2 things killing variety and teambuilding. Though priority could be shut down easily not prepping for it practically means a gg.

For meta predictions and Badger's VR, we can likely expect a rise in faster attackers and speed boosting fortes, speed control like webs and trick room are going to be far more popular. Yeah major VR shift incoming
 
"For meta predictions and Badger's VR, we can likely expect a rise in faster attackers and speed boosting fortes, speed control like webs and trick room are going to be far more popular. Yeah major VR shift incoming"
Or instead, from what I'v seen, apparently the meta becomes use nothing but u-turn and volt switch mons. Is it possible that u-turn and volt-switch could be looked into in the future? It's a whole lot of nonsense.
Edit: I keep messing up the quote thing so I just edited it out... I don't use the forums much.
 
I stick on my previous opinion. Just simplely ban return and priority would do nothing but let ut and vs spam have nothing to check them and easily swap any team.Therefore,ut and vs should be banned immediately,which we all do not want it happen.So I think item cause,or maybe "prioity cause" that one team allow no more than one priority moves,is far more better than just ban them.
 
Hello, I dont agree with your choice to ban return/ frustration and priority. We have many counter to that so why create a new funny metagame and ban all interesting move in it ? I'm disapointed..
 
damidoulight said:
Hello, I dont agree with your choice to ban return/ frustration and priority. We have many counter to that so why create a new funny metagame and ban all interesting move in it ? I'm disapointed..
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Because new people coming to the metagame don't want to be intimidated by the amount of teambuilding going into how they can prevent priority. There's also the issue of "overcentralization". This is when an element of gameplay becomes too common in normal matchmaking. This makes the game toxic in the sense of blandness. Why is fun to run something broken if everyone else is running the same thing?
 
damidoulight said:
Hello, I dont agree with your choice to ban return/ frustration and priority. We have many counter to that so why create a new funny metagame and ban all interesting move in it ? I'm disapointed..
Click to expand...

Priority doesn’t have “many” counters lol. We have SO MANY mons that have Feint or Espeed but we only have Lele, Bruxish and Tsareena to counter them. Or in the case of Pinsir, only Lele counter it. Forcing us to run one of the three mons (two which are subpar), THAT, is called overcentralizing.

As for Return/Frustration, I think it’s more like banning them vs banning two-hit moves which makes them basically a 204 BP move. But Return/Frustration giving priorities like Ice Shard 102 BP is also broken so... yeah.
 
Fury cutter seems like a cool, more balanced replacement for the return sweepers.
Since every move uses fury cutter, you can switch up moves and still keep doubling your power.
This caps at 160 base power, but 160 base power on your priority moves is pretty good.

Weavile @ furycutter
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Throat Chop
- Power-Up Punch

Other options: Feint, Brick break, Dig (if you really don't like magearna)
Pursuit doesn't really make sense on this set in my opinion.

Scizor @ furycutter
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Brutal Swing
- Bug Bite

Other options: Pursuit, brick break , Superpower,

Galvantula @ furycutter
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Giga Drain

Other options: Charge Beam, Bug Buzz


Other notable mons with Fury Cutter: Breloom, Bisharp, Crawdawnt, Nidoking, Roserade, Golisopod, Linoone, Latios


This is far more balanced than return though, as this doesn't go on every single mon in the game and it does require some setup.
Also, moves like protect and immunities reset the counter for fury cutter.

Fun to play, and I think this would be fun to play against as an opponent, once people know about it.
 
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Alright guys, I know that the meta is changing for the better, so that means we're going to have an all new viability ranking board. I'll be posting the viability shortly, so keep updated!
 
I don't get why a ban was favoured over limiting certain moves. If you can only have 1 priority forte, what's the harm. sure, every team would need a way to deal with it, but that's the game.
Now, instead, you create a format where fury cutter replaces return, Vs/Ut replace prio from the fast users (koko, zera, victini, Ash gren and normal gren) and we're left wit hthe same level of muck
 
i know triage has historically been buggy, but regardless im curious if "workarounds" are included in the priority ban (ie no holding move that causes healing with the ability triage). not that comfeys broken or anything anyways lol, but it just isnt addressed or particularly clear at the moment if thats included or not

also, whether or not priority etc is banned, im inclined to agree that an item clause naturally helps prevent overcentralization in general
 
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Darthikyu said:
I don't get why a ban was favoured over limiting certain moves. If you can only have 1 priority forte, what's the harm. sure, every team would need a way to deal with it, but that's the game.
Now, instead, you create a format where fury cutter replaces return, Vs/Ut replace prio from the fast users (koko, zera, victini, Ash gren and normal gren) and we're left wit hthe same level of muck
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If you don't know Shared Power, then let me tell you a tale...
In this fabled OM, every Pokemon shared its ability among the team. It only took a week before it was too much, and ban after ban was enacted. But these is what the forums calls complex bans. Complex bans are bans that removes the move, but under certain conditions. The complex bans listed in Shared Power, which will be referred as SP from now on, would ban the sharing of the ability. Which was good, but it went against the rules of banning. You could not ban mechanics. Even with these bans, the metagame could not be balanced, and it is gone. But it taught a lesson to all future OMs: be careful with how you ban and how manage your meta.

yomi said:
i know triage has historically been buggy, but regardless im curious if "workarounds" are included in the priority ban (ie no holding move that causes healing with the ability triage). not that comfeys broken or anything anyways lol, but it just isnt addressed or particularly clear at the moment if thats included or not

also, whether or not priority etc is banned, im inclined to agree that an item clause naturally helps prevent overcentralizition in general
Click to expand...

I don't think Triage is banned. It was priority moves in general, not abilities. Comfey is safe.
 
Alright guys- I'm henceforth starting the new VR rankings.

S Rank- Made for only Pokèmon who excel in the current meta. These mons are the hardest to KO, easiest to sweep with, and counter a lot of the standard Pokèmon running around.
A Rank- Made for Pokèmon who are great in the current meta, but can be stopped in their tracks by other Pokèmon or do their job just a little bit worse than the S ranks.
B Rank- Made for the Pokemon who do everything good, just slightly worse than those in the A or S ranks. These Pokemon are often still usable, but they might take a little more thought within team building
C Rank- Made for the Pokèmon who are mediocre in the current meta. They're either hard-countered by some Pokèmon, are outclassed by other mons, easy to predict, or just simply it's really hard to build a team around them.

S Rank

-Blacephalon (Flame Charge, Choice Scarf)
-Toxapex (Infestation)
-Victini (Normalium Z, U-Turn, Flame Charge)

A+ Rank

-Nihilego (Charge Beam, Acid Spray)
-Weavile (Fury Cutter, Whirlpool, Foul Play)
-Tapu Lele (Choice Scarf, Draining Kiss)
-Ash Greninja (U-Turn)
-Tornadus (U-Turn, Foul Play)
-Celesteela (Flame Charge, Absorb)

A Rank

-Volcarona (Giga Drain, Fiery Dance)
-Heatran (Magma Storm, Flame Charge)
-Comfey (Draining Kiss, U-Turn)
-Greninja (U-Turn)
-Zeraora (Volt Switch, Choice Band)

A- Rank

-Magearna (Volt Switch, Charge Beam)
-Stakataka (Gyro Ball, Infestation)
-Doublade (Gyro Ball, Eviolite, Sacred Sword)
-Tapu Koko (Volt Switch, Charge Beam, Electroweb)

B+ Rank

-Bewear (Drain Punch, Payback)
-Tyranitar (Payback, Avalanche, Tyranitarite)

B Rank

-Typhlosion (Flame Charge)
-Alomomola (Whirlpool, Scald)

B- Rank

-Mega Latias (Latiasite)
-Excadrill (Choice Scarf, Rapid Spin, Rock Tomb)
-Kartana (Psycho Cut, Choice Scarf)
-Ninetales-Alola (Frost Breath, Light Clay)


C+ Rank

-Tsareena (Trop Kick, Giga Drain, Rapid Spin)
-Azumarill (Whirlpool)
-Chansey (Eviolite)
-Necrozma (Photon Geyser)

C Rank

-Sableye (Foul Play, Sablenite)

C- Rank

-Black Kyurem (Icy Wind, Dragon Breath)
-Gallade (Fury Cutter, Drain Punch, Galladite)

Once again, I'll be adding more once the new bans kick off
 
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