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ethan06

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The real beauty of that core is that Salamence is able to cover the things that deal with sand so well, so it's not altogether easy to find something that can deal with all three. That said, there are a couple things that can answer sand well without being hopeless against the Salamence - two Pokémon that come to mind are offensive Waterium Z Rotom-Wash and special Landorus-T. These Pokémon have good defensive and offensive tools for Tyranitar + Excadrill and are capable of OHKOing Naive Salamence with HP Ice. Other Pokémon to potentially look at are Focus Sash Mamoswine, bulky Celesteela and physically defensive Ferrothorn, but there are plenty of other things that could do just as well. If you're feeling creative and want to try something innovative to break the core, start with physical tanks as all three mons are predominantly physical - however, be aware of special coverage on tar and mence, especially Fire moves.

Generally speaking, bulky Waters such as Suicune, Mega Slowbro or Tapu Fini, or physically defensive Steels such as Ferrothorn or Skarmory should do just fine here. Long as whatever you're using isn't weak to Ground or Flying (or Steel) you should be fine as the Tyranitar is usually a support set and not all that threatening.
 
The real beauty of that core is that Salamence is able to cover the things that deal with sand so well, so it's not altogether easy to find something that can deal with all three. That said, there are a couple things that can answer sand well without being hopeless against the Salamence - two Pokémon that come to mind are offensive Waterium Z Rotom-Wash and special Landorus-T. These Pokémon have good defensive and offensive tools for Tyranitar + Excadrill and are capable of OHKOing Naive Salamence with HP Ice. Other Pokémon to potentially look at are Focus Sash Mamoswine, bulky Celesteela and physically defensive Ferrothorn, but there are plenty of other things that could do just as well. If you're feeling creative and want to try something innovative to break the core, start with physical tanks as all three mons are predominantly physical - however, be aware of special coverage on tar and mence, especially Fire moves.

Generally speaking, bulky Waters such as Suicune, Mega Slowbro or Tapu Fini, or physically defensive Steels such as Ferrothorn or Skarmory should do just fine here. Long as whatever you're using isn't weak to Ground or Flying (or Steel) you should be fine as the Tyranitar is usually a support set and not all that threatening.
Suicune can take on the members 1v 1, just not 1 v 3.
Just my insane bad luck I run into something so annoyingly good repeatedly.

Hmm, I have been looking into Mamoswine since Mamoswine answers a lot of the common Dragon types. I'll look into Suicune as well. Thank you lots for the help.
 
What are the top two natures to pick for Lando-T (thats how many I have access to)? Primarily looking at BSS of course, but perhaps with the consideration that I'm interested in checking out doubles eventually.
 
Actually even Jolly and Careful have good usage, with the former being used for the focus sash sr lead and the latter mostly with the pinch 50% berry
 
Hey everyone! I just got USUM over christmas and am trying to battle competitively on a cartridge format since Gen 2 as a little kid. Since I dont really have as much time to grind a perfect team, I am using what I have and easy to access pokemon. Ive caught a Zapdos (one of my favorite mons), one of the few actual mond I want to play with, with a timid nature and HP ice. Can anyone suggest to me a set to run, and several potential teammates? Right now Im just considering running roost 3 atk that OU has, because I cant seem to find a BSS set for it. Is this still the best set or is it unviable in BSS?
 
Hey everyone! I just got USUM over christmas and am trying to battle competitively on a cartridge format since Gen 2 as a little kid. Since I dont really have as much time to grind a perfect team, I am using what I have and easy to access pokemon. Ive caught a Zapdos (one of my favorite mons), one of the few actual mond I want to play with, with a timid nature and HP ice. Can anyone suggest to me a set to run, and several potential teammates? Right now Im just considering running roost 3 atk that OU has, because I cant seem to find a BSS set for it. Is this still the best set or is it unviable in BSS?
Hey man, welcome to battle spot!

Roost three attacks is a perfectly viable set. It gives for a really solid Mega Salamence, Landorus-Therian, Celesteela answer while also being a softer means of dealing with Mimikyu and Tapu Fini, though struggles to switch in. Here's a set I've used a bit and think you should consider using;
Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
I see that your set is timid however, which is much more suited for a scarf set. I'm not too familiar with this set, but I'd assume it'd be something like this;
Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
I'm going to base the teammates around scarf since your Zapdos is timid. Blaziken immediately jumps out as a great teammate since Zapdos forces out and weakens common checks to blaziken such as Tapu Fini and Defensive Landorus-Therian since it fears HP Ice. Mimikyu, arguably the biggest check, can't switch in either and loses its disguise and a good amount of HP in the process in a 1v1 vs scarf Zapdos. For similar reasons, Mimikyu as a partner is also good since Zapdos chips away at mons which Mimikyu wants some chip on such as Magnezone, Ferrothorn, Celesteela, Heatran and Aegislash. All very relevant strong steel types which Mimikyu appreciates having an answer for. This is kind of all I can think of on the top of my head, It's kind of late and I'm tired ;-;

If you need more help you can join us in our pokemon showdown room or the dedicated discord. There are also some great resources which we have, such as Boe's usage statistics from cartridge. Hope you enjoy the game, all the best in your battling!
 
I am actually curious. Do Pokemon in this format use double team and minimize ? I don't think taking that extra turn for evasion is that worth it in most cases these days anyway.
 
I am actually curious. Do Pokemon in this format use double team and minimize ? I don't think taking that extra turn for evasion is that worth it in most cases these days anyway.
On rare occasion, yes. Mainly Chansey, A-Muk, and clefable run minimize, but they aren't super common in this format, and minimize isn't really seen that much on those three. If you are really concerned about evasion, just use kartana with smart strike and sacred sword which ignores evasion. Also Z-moves bypass evasion.
 
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cant say

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Hey guys, would mono attacking M-Altaria be viable at all? I'm thinking of something like DD, Return, Roost and Refresh so it can set up in front of pokes that rely on statuses to wear stuff down. Is it worth trying? Thanks :)
 
Mono-attacking Altaria might be viable, but in terms of Mono-Attacking Set Up Sweeper, there is an obvious choice who seems a lot better on paper... Salamence has a noticeably better physical defense; it might have worse SpDef but it has better HP, and the difference in attack stats (Mence's is 35 points better) is significant. Also, Salamence has a very good speed tier, while Altaria's speed tier leaves a lot to be desired. A 40 point drop in speed is quite noticeable. The set mono-attacking Mence runs is DD, Return, Roost and Substitute, similar to what you suggested.

In my opinion, Altaria's strengths lie in being used as a defensive pokemon rather than as a sweeper. In this role, it uses its defensive typing and access to Cotton Guard to differentiate itself from Mence.
 
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What's a good EV spread for bulky Volc?
I think the bulky berry Quiver Dance + 3 attacks versions are easier to use, but here's a full defensive invested set with some calcs that show the power of Will-o-Wisp/Quiver Dance + berry proc:

Volcarona @ Mago Berry
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 172 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 20 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Roost
- Quiver Dance
- Will-O-Wisp

252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Volcarona in Electric Terrain: 163-193 (85.3 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Volcarona: 150-177 (78.5 - 92.6%)

252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Volcarona: 84-100 (43.9 - 52.3%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Mago Berry recovery

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Volcarona in Sun: 175-207 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Volcarona in Psychic Terrain: 115-136 (60.2 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Mago Berry recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Volcarona in Psychic Terrain: 171-202 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO


252 Atk Mega Metagross Rock Tomb vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 168-200 (87.9 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 176-210 (92.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 115-136 (60.2 - 71.2%)
252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 33-40 (17.2 - 20.9%)
(note: you outspeed any Mimikyu below 150 EV investment, seems like bulky Mimikyu only run 60ish at best to outspeed Adamant Breloom)

edit:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Volcarona: 134-158 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Mago Berry recovery

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 147-174 (76.9 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Mago Berry recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 144-170 (75.3 - 89%)

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 154-182 (80.6 - 95.2%)
(First hit: 123, 124, 126, 127, 129, 130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144, 145; Second hit: 31, 31, 31, 33, 33, 33, 33, 34, 34, 34, 34, 36, 36, 36, 36, 37)

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 172 Def Volcarona: 166-196 (86.9 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
 

Darkinium

the mighty nuaguunibi
is a Pre-Contributor
In addition to the above post, I also made my own bulky set a while ago for the Next Best Thing:

Volcarona @ Mago Berry
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 140 Def / 124 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower / Fiery Dance / Fire Blast
- Roost
- Quiver Dance / U-turn / Coverage

I go a bit more into detail here, but the Speed is for Adamant Mimikyu, HP is adjusted for SR, and the rest goes into bulk. Unfortunately, this one is based more as a wall than a bulky QD sweeper, but you could try playing around with the moves to fit your QD and coverage if you want. I think cant say has a spread that's more adjusted for a sweeper set.
 
How do people come up with custom EV spreads to be optimised for specific threats? I understand investing to hit numbers for Leftovers/Life Orb/weather/speedcreeping etc., but stuff like Tox's and Darkinium's Volcarona spreads are lost on me.
Is it just a matter of knowing your enemy and plugging numbers into a damage calc and that I'm over-complicating things mentally?
 

Darkinium

the mighty nuaguunibi
is a Pre-Contributor
How do people come up with custom EV spreads to be optimised for specific threats? I understand investing to hit numbers for Leftovers/Life Orb/weather/speedcreeping etc., but stuff like Tox's and Darkinium's Volcarona spreads are lost on me.
Is it just a matter of knowing your enemy and plugging numbers into a damage calc and that I'm over-complicating things mentally?
Typically I just start out with some speed creep, as it's the most straightforward task. From there, I usually just max out HP, Attack, or whatever, and dump the remainders in some other stat. However, you can also opt to EV just enough to hit a certain offensive or defensive benchmark. For example, standard AV Landorus usually runs 44 Atk EVs, enough to 2HKO 0/4 Garchomp. Just watch out for not going overboard; too much speed or offensive creep on a defensive Pokemon such as Tapu Fini can often leave it too vulnerable to the threats it's supposed to check, and too much defensive investment on an attacker might make it too weak to achieve certain KOs.

As for decoding the spreads of others, that can often be a hard task. Before going too far down the rabbit hole, reading the descriptions of sets (like the one I put for mine), or asking around can save you a lot of time and effort. However, from there you kinda have to get your hands dirty and runs some (an understatement in certain cases) calcs. Just comb through some of the more common mons, and you're likely to find something after a while.
 
Hi haven't played in ages. But super bored so I'm gonna get Ultra Sun.

Few questions on some new mons that catch my eye, since they aren't in the viability rankings but I may wanna try them eventually....since it's been a while I should say I tried some odd combos in ORAS BSS. I used AV Regice quite a bit, and a Minimize Baton Pass Drifblim. Also AV Armaldo and Rock Polish Relicanth...other stories.

The new ones I'm wondering about are Wishiwashi(looks tough before the change in form,) Vikavolt(different mon in this gen has way more SpA and actual Speed though, saw that one,) Salazzle(poisoning all and Encore,) Crabominable(I like the crustacean pokes,) Pyukumuku(wanna try this one...maybe even as PP stall w/ Spite and Recover,) and the Alola Golem(nice ability.)

I liked Toxapex and that is one actually at a decent ranking. Should they be Merciless or Regenerator. The Disguise ability of Mimikyu seems really good but I don't quite get why it's in the highest rank.

EDIT: Looked at Crabominable's stats...nvm. Very icky, guess my brain fiigured it'd be good Def at least like Kingler cause crab=shell:/ So didn't look earlier, that is not viable.
 
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marilli

double the pokemon
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As for all the other Pokes you've listed above other than Toxapex and Mimikyu are quite nonstandard and chances are you won't be facing many of them. You might face the Drifblim once or twice but that's probably it. Doesn't mean that you can't use them effectively. There was a Dedenne and Pikachu team at 2200 on the ladder, as well as a Vikavolt Team at 2100 (that also features Toxapex) and it's perfectly fine to have fun with whatever Pokemon you like without paying attention to how viable they are - just don't get mad when other people think you might get better results playing with different Pokemon.

Toxapex should always be Regenerator, and it's typically used in a very bulky defensive balanced core with lots of bulk and healing, paired with some bulky attackers. It is commonly partnered with Pokemon like Gliscor, Porygon2, Mega Metagross, Tapu Bulu, etc. Or alternatively it sees use on full stall teams with Chansey, Skarmory, Gliscor, Mega Gengar, Tyranitar, etc. The DS ladder usage stats as well as PS usage stats fully support this with Gliscor being a very firm #1 partner, as it overlaps in usage for both stall and balance teams.

Mimikyu is amazing because it is so good at what it does. And it does so many things. First, it basically serves as a one-time stop to a large number of threats - many of which are really fast or boost their speed - that could easily sweep an offensive team, like Mega Salamence, Mega Charizard X, Naganadel, Lucario, Mega Blaziken, Volcarona, etc. (basically everything other than Mega Gyarados) and KOs them with a STAB Z-Move - even in face of Stealth Rock that can fail other Focus Sash revenge killers. No other Pokemon can do this to such a variety of offensive Pokemon, and this ultimate revenge-killing ability really shines through in a 3v3 format when sacking something to get a safe switch-in will really set you back. It's just really difficult to 1v1 a Mimikyu using an offensive Pokemon.

On top of that, Mimikyu can really cause a headache to defensive teams as well, not only because of its threat of using SD and breaking past defensive teams anyways, but also its access to wide variety of supportive moves - Curse, Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, and Taunt. Curse can really make it hard to play defensively against Mimikyu, and in addition has the ability to stop Pokemon like Glalie from sweeping through your team. Alternatively, using a supportive Mimikyu with Thunder Wave, Mimikyu can also provide free turns to threatening setup Pokemon of your own, like Glalie.

Have fun with Ultra Sun :3
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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Hi haven't played in ages. But super bored so I'm gonna get Ultra Sun.

Few questions on some new mons that catch my eye, since they aren't in the viability rankings but I may wanna try them eventually....since it's been a while I should say I tried some odd combos in ORAS BSS. I used AV Regice quite a bit, and a Minimize Baton Pass Drifblim. Also AV Armaldo and Rock Polish Relicanth...other stories.

The new ones I'm wondering about are Wishiwashi(looks tough before the change in form,) Vikavolt(different mon in this gen has way more SpA and actual Speed though, saw that one,) Salazzle(poisoning all and Encore,) Crabominable(I like the crustacean pokes,) Pyukumuku(wanna try this one...maybe even as PP stall w/ Spite and Recover,) and the Alola Golem(nice ability.)

I liked Toxapex and that is one actually at a decent ranking. Should they be Merciless or Regenerator. The Disguise ability of Mimikyu seems really good but I don't quite get why it's in the highest rank.
After you disappeared we joked about AV Regice for a while. Then the joke got better when Naganadel was released because we "realised" you were right all along since it was one of the only things that hard countered it. I decided to build a team featuring it and used it on stream a bunch of times to decent success, so here it is! Hope you give it a try


https://pokepast.es/ec8366849557a650
 
After you disappeared we joked about AV Regice for a while. Then the joke got better when Naganadel was released because we "realised" you were right all along since it was one of the only things that hard countered it. I decided to build a team featuring it and used it on stream a bunch of times to decent success, so here it is! Hope you give it a try


https://pokepast.es/ec8366849557a650
That's funny lol. I will try that too, I mean I was planning on Regice anyway. I'm a bit worried about some of the new mons w/ huge attack stats that OHKO,but there are some new special attackers ir should be walling fine. Aforementioned Naganadel, and even that crazy base 173 SpA Xurkitreee would need Tail Glow since it can't hit SE.

It sounds like Stealth Rock is more of a thing from the little I've read on here, this team looks like it'd have trouble w/ that. Kartana's Atk is vry crazy-experimented w/ Rampardos for that reason, and that's even less Atk. I'm surprised to see a bulky set because of that bad HP. I always used Focus Miss on Regice but HP Fire seems good to. Hope the one I spent forever resetting for has that. You remembered Zard Y! As you pointed out back then AV Regice, even w/ the highest special bulk in the game, can't counter it, but 1v1 is easy and you can switch in on a fire attack and still win, and switching on Solarbeam would be essentially harmless. So definitely the only check it has weak to fire xD.
 
That's funny lol. I will try that too, I mean I was planning on Regice anyway. I'm a bit worried about some of the new mons w/ huge attack stats that OHKO,but there are some new special attackers ir should be walling fine. Aforementioned Naganadel, and even that crazy base 173 SpA Xurkitreee would need Tail Glow since it can't hit SE.

It sounds like Stealth Rock is more of a thing from the little I've read on here, this team looks like it'd have trouble w/ that. Kartana's Atk is vry crazy-experimented w/ Rampardos for that reason, and that's even less Atk. I'm surprised to see a bulky set because of that bad HP. I always used Focus Miss on Regice but HP Fire seems good to. Hope the one I spent forever resetting for has that. You remembered Zard Y! As you pointed out back then AV Regice, even w/ the highest special bulk in the game, can't counter it, but 1v1 is easy and you can switch in on a fire attack and still win, and switching on Solarbeam would be essentially harmless. So definitely the only check it has weak to fire xD.
FWIW, the most common Xurkitree set, z-hypnosis will just set up on Regice and win the game straight from there most of the time. Charizard Y will pretty much win at full health every time vs. Regice as ancient power does not KO due to Zard Y's suprisingly good special bulk. Not that I think Regice is bad by any means, but it has its flaws that keep it out of mainstream play.

Yes, Hippowdon in general is probably a windup for that team, though there is certainly things that Hippo does not appreciate such as Kartana, z-draco from naga and mega gyara.
 

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