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Fusion Evolution

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In addition, I request that whomsoever had a winning fusion in the thread before - that since we established new mechanics for fusions, a lot of things have changed. This includes the primary/secondary type restriction, so I request that you use this discussion phase to make any type changes to your old fusions if necessary. This is completely optional. You don't necessarily have to change their types, it's just a small way of letting them have a chance to do so if they wish.

Just type "I want my fusion [Fusion Name] to be retyped to [new type]", the new type being one of the existing combinations, of course.

To demonstrate, I present one of my previous fusions, Pidgemie. Previously it was restricted to the primary types of Pidgeot and Starmie - Normal and Water respectively. I can now choose to retype it to Water (Starmie) / Flying (Pidgeot).


pidgeot.gif
starmie.gif

DNA Donors: Pidgeot + Starmie
Offspring name: Pidgemie
New type: Water / Normal --> Water / Flying

Others may still proceed with discussion as usual. This won't get in the way.
 
Would it be a nerf or a buff if I made Archedactyl Flying instead of Rock / Flying? When I made it the mega mechanic wasn't introduced, and I kind of feel like Mega Archedactyl is a bit too powerful. On one hand, Rock / Flying is a cool typing and it gives Archedactyl a second STAB. On the other hand Flying has less weaknesses.

Thoughts?
 
I can't believe Swank won

Personally I'm a little wary of Aegilene. The concept of physical BoltBeam rubs me the wrong way, and now that Burn doesn't neuter Iron Head or Sacred Sword I definitely don't like it. The new 4x weakness to Fire is somewhat comforting, but I'm still sketchy about it. Does Swords Dance still boost Attack under Error Macro, or does it buff Sp. Attack now? If the latter, I would probably forego King's Shield entirely and just run a Sash set with Swords Dance and Extremespeed.

Lucharama on the other hand looks super fun to play. Fusing with Hawlucha gives Hariyama not just one of the best STAB combos in the game, but also access to Roost, a much more reliable recovery move than Rest or Drain Punch. Them post-Acrobatics gains are nothing to sneeze at either; it hits even harder than Hazard X does (before Tough Claws), and it straight up outruns every other unboosted non-Mega fusion in the meta that isn't named Hawlusharp, and even that has to pull similar Acrobatics shenanigans to get to that point. All in all I think Lucharama is gonna be a lot of fun to run in this meta. Flying Gem with Acrobatics/Roost/Close Combat/U-Turn are what I would run, though I can see Sitrus + BD sets popping up for maximum damage output.

Swank, my baby dear, is going to be one hell of an asset to Rain teams. Like Tetraplex said, weather looks like it's going to prevalent in this meta, and Swank works best in the rain. As I noted in the role description part, it's an absolute demon in rain, with Swift Swim cranking its Speed up to 182 and making Waterfall hit everything that doesn't resist it like a damn truck, an effective BP 180 move coming off of 165 base Attack. Yikes. I can see the odd RestTalk set showing up here and there, but honestly Shift Gear or Rain Dance/Waterfall/Gear Grind/Coverage with Wish support would be way better for it; possibly Jellivoir?

Casting is cool. I really like Casting. I'd like it even better if its immunity changed with the weather, eliminating one of its weaknesses dependent on which form it is. Keep Ground for Sunny weather, but maybe change its Poison/Water immunity to Electric since those 100% Thunders will really hurt it, and then Rock in Hail so it can have the unique and useful niche of being immune to Stealth Rock. That's what I would do anyway.

Sablemimez... I dunno. I'm not terribly interested in it for some reason, which is odd given that stall is my preferred strategy. Nice typing, that's for sure, though it definitely needs to watch out for Steel-types that are slower than it - which is a lot of them. If I did run one it'd probably be for dual screens and some Toxic stalling.

Houndlion is another good weather abuser. Justifire + Solar Power is a nasty combination. Throw in a first-turn Nasty Plot boost as well and you have one horrifying special sweeper. This is another one that's going to need good cleric support; are there any decent Wish users that do well in Sun? Nothing immediately comes to mind, though I've had a long day and might not be thinking straight.

Great defensive typing with a great defensive Mega, and then a great offensive Mega with a great offensive typing. This thing is good. I would absolutely run Mega Loppeye X on a stall team. It has a huge array of status moves, phazing via Circle Throw, Baton Passing capabilities... Yeah. I dig this one. Mega Loppeye Y is pretty sweet too, and its ability to cripple physical Flying-types which would normally scare it is super useful. Scrappy is, sadly, largely useless on it, unless it ends up against another Loppeye. But other than that it's a great 'mon.

Nice movepool, nice typing, nice defenses. Another good wall for rain teams. I would personally run something along the lines of Slack Off/Stealth Rock/Roar/Scald. Phazing things into hazards is always a fun time.
 
My thoughts on the eight approved fusions:

I actually preferred the name "Lucharama" because of how cool it sounded. Anyway, my main question about this fusion is, is a Power Herb consumed before you attack with a two-turn move? Because, if it does, you have Sky Attack, a 210 BP move with STAB included, coming off of an effective 174 base Attack. Afterwards, you can just use Acrobatics with impunity, coupled with Close Combat/HJK and some other coverage move for those that resist your aerial assaults. All in all, Lucharma seems really fun to play.

One of the coolest things about Swank, to me anyway, is its Ability. I mean, having a physical attacker that can suddenly go mixed is pretty damn cool. As mentioned in the post, a Focus Sash set could be usable, although Swank seems a little too bulky to use it effectively.

Mega Swank, on the other hand, is a very fearsome rain wallbreaker. As it was also mentioned in the post, you don't much need Shift Gear, as you can just smash everything with your nuclear Waterfalls. Much like Lucharma, Swank seems fun to play.

Weather teams are cool in general, and Casting doubly so, in that its secondary type changes to match the type of weather used. Anyway, it has Weather Ball for a strong STAB move in weather, coupled with Weezing's excellent support move-pool and access to recovery in the form of Pain Split. Weather enthusiasts need to look no further than Casting.

Sablemimez's Ability seems like it was designed to make your opponent tear out all their hair. With 0 EVs, 0 IVs, and a negative nature, Sablemimez's Speed hits a whopping 148, meaning that almost everything will outpace it and make it bulkier.

Mega Sablemimez takes everything annoying about Sablemimez and amplifies it. At least you could status it before, as Magic Bounce reflects everything that doesn't try to kill it outright. It even has a usable 112 Special Attack, at the cost of being even slower and without its extremely frustrating Ability. Now, I'm not saying I dislike Sablemimez, I'm just saying it could be very fun to use and not fun for your opponent to fight.

Physical BoltBeam sounds scary as hell, and special Iron Head could throw your opponent for a loop. Plus, Special U-turn is just like a Volt Switch that hits Grass-types hard. You also get a ton and a half of coverage moves that could be used to take down some would-be check. Everything being said, Aegilene seems like it will be a defining threat in FE.

I've always liked 'mons that have an immunity to one of their weaknesses, and Houndlion is no exception. It still suffers against Fighting-types, but no 'mon is perfect, I guess. You could attempt to set up sun before Mega Evolving, but Houndlion isn't very bulky.

Mega Houndlion seems like a destructive force in sun, much like how Mega Swank is a destructive force in rain. 150 Special Attack will certainly leave a mark, especially with Solar Power, and 132 base Speed ain't too shabby either.

Both of Loppeye's Megas are usable, with Mega X giving you amazing bulk and Magic Bounce to go with it, and Mega Y giving you that Ghost/Fighting typing and 145 base Attack. Mega X has reliable recovery with its good bulk and awesome support move-pool, and Mega Y has amazing Speed and power plus Fake Out to guarantee you get your stat boosts. Which of the two is better, I don't know, but both seem very cool.

And now we get to my own 'mon. A good wall with a better typing, as well as Slack Off to shrug off damage. 88/134/134 defenses are nothing to sneeze at, and Metal Burst can be used to deal considerable damage to anything that hits you hard. A Nasty Plot set could be usable, as with max Special Attack EVs and Modest, at +2 your Special Attack is 586. As Slawth said, though, your best bet is probably a defensive set with Scald/Slack Off/Rocks/whatever.
 
The Reptile said:
Would it be a nerf or a buff if I made Archedactyl Flying instead of Rock / Flying? When I made it the mega mechanic wasn't introduced, and I kind of feel like Mega Archedactyl is a bit too powerful. On one hand, Rock / Flying is a cool typing and it gives Archedactyl a second STAB. On the other hand Flying has less weaknesses.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think it's a good idea.
 
I'm loving Bastioking, nice typing and bulk combined with reliable recovery and Trick Room. I can see it working really well with Chesdon (Chesnaught + Hippowdon) because they cover each other perfectly, except for Fire, which is neutral on Bastioking - on the other hand, Bastioking double resists Chesdon's quad ice weakness (And I think Ice moves are a bit more prevalent than Fire moves, though it might be different in this meta).
Also, both are pretty slow so they work in Trick Room (Belly Drum shenanigans?) and Chesdon also has Leech Seed for when you expect a switch to something that beats it but is walled by Bastioking.
The only support this duo lacks is a way to get rid of status, which hurts Chesdon more because burns will cripple its offense and Toxic limits the amount of turns it can stay active.
And that's not all, Chesdon also brings sand, which doesn't hurt Bastioking and provides some nice chip damage.
So I could see these 2 work really well as either a defensive core (probably the better of the two, due to the nice combination of status moves) or as bulky offense for a Trick Room team.

I'm not sure if this fits here but both of Slowking's other abilities (Regenerator and Oblivious) would probably be better because they help recover back to full HP for Sturdy or just a better way of recovery and/or give it a Taunt immunity (which is pretty big, considering it has to set up something to become dangerous).
 
Alright, I think getting an immunity is worth losing that lovely fighting resistance. Please change Maladuck to Water / Dark.

FALCOWNPAUNCH! said:
I actually preferred the name "Lucharama" because of how cool it sounded.
Click to expand...

Luchama, Luchayama, Lucharma, and Lucharama have all been used, two by me, all by others. I don't particularly care, so let's decide what to call this thing now, shall we?
 
Swords Dance and Shift Gear stay the same, only the attacks are affected, the status moves are unchanged. So it can run a Swords Dance set with the following:


Aegilene @ Life Orb
Ability: Error Macro
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bug Buzz / Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Alternatively there's Techno Blast for physical water coverage if it's ever necessary. A bulkier variant could run Giga Drain, with the Shield Forme's stats it's actually quite useful:

Aegilene @ Lefovers
Ability: Error Macro
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 HP
Timid Nature
- King's Shield
- Giga Drain
- Flash Cannon
- Bug Buzz / Dark Pulse / Boltbeam / Flamethrower ???

and then there's this:

Aegilene @ Choice Specs
Ability: Error Macro
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Gunk Shot Sacred Sword.

I think Specs is actually quite interesting, more so than I thought initially. If you think about it, Aegilene's bulk is basically a buffed up Escavalier. Against faster opponents, you take a hit in Shield form and then dish out damage in Blade form just before switching (thinking of cool nicknames for the formes later - I actually think I did specify them).

Scarf I believe can ignore Extremespeed and run the same set as Genesect's physical movepool is actually quite lackingm, definitely go with Sacred Sword or maybe even Rock Slide. I completely forgot about Aegislash's movepool. God this thing has options. (Aegislash's weird access to Rain Dance actually makes a Thunder set interesting)

Scarf can of course use Genesect's standard mixed set, with maybe a bit of Aegislash's thrown in there. I think the Shift Gear set is more or less completely neutered though, unless you appreciate the speed boost in which case you're probably better off running Autotomize. We never really thought of event/egg moves have we ? I mean we did but we never came to a conclusion about it.

I'll make a post about my old fusions' retyping soon as I'd like to hear others' opinions on them (deciding Garchados' typing is quite a conundrum). I'll also make sure to update the OPs with the proposed typing changes once the discussion phase is work, so I'd kinda prefer if you guys stated your changes in bold so just in case I miss them out somehow. :)
 
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Archedactyl is good as is. I mean if you make it pure Flying it has no good STAB at all. Besides, there a bigger threats around, and it speedties with Mega Metabat who can hit it with Meteor Mash with no fear of retaliation. Not to mention the total counter that is Swank, who can force a switch due to walling and doing major damage to Mega Archedactyl, all the while getting off a free Shift Gear whether Archedactyl switches or not. Keep it Rock/Flying IMO.

Besides, it's not THAT much worse than anything else here.
 
I say keep Archedactyl Rock/Flying. As Pika said, even if it were one of the biggest threats, we just voted in another counter or two for it.

That's one vote each for Lucharma and Lucharama, btw
 
So, thoughts on my previous fusions:

Gyarotic stays the same.

Garchados:

Ground/Flying
Ground/Water
Ground/Dragon
Water/Ground
Water/Dragon
Water/Flying
Dragon/Water
Dragon/Ground
Dragon/Flying
Flying/Ground
Flying/Water
Flying/Dragon

options for mega:

Ground/Dark
Flying/Dark
Water/Dark
Dragon/Dark

A LOT of options, honestly. The reasoning behind the same typing coming up twice is due to the Gyaradosite variant gaining a secondary typing of dark. It has stabs for all types bar flying, which is mostly only useful as a defensive type. Any type variation would choose to further differentiate the base from Gargatr. Hmm...

Scyscor:

Bug / Ground
Ground / Flying

Weasol:

Dark
Dark/Ice

Fairly straightforward. It's frail enough as it is, does it matter if it gains an additional weakness to fighting and gaining a great stab ?

Charatos:

I think I'll keep this. Flying doesn't really benefit it in any way, and while the Y form would appreciate not missing out on water stab, it's outclassed by standard Y except as a physical attacker, whereupon it gets... Acrobatics with a mega stone and Aerial Ace.

Blastinja:

Water
Water/Dark

Water/Dark is not bad as a defensive typing, what's more... it sets it apart from Mega Blastoise, while its stats and mega easily set it apart from regular Greninja. The Dark Pulse stab seems quite beneficial here, and his secondary type will scare spinblockers away.

Sharpedos:

Water/Dark
Water/Flying
Mega: Water/Dark
Dark/Water
Dark/Flying
Mega: Dark
Flying/Water
Flying/Dark
Mega: Flying/Dark

Flying doesn't seem to offer any strong stab, but it can be an useful defensive typing (same case as regular Gyarados) prior to mega. Pure Dark is interesting for the Gyaradosite mega, as it basically gives it Umbreon's typing with offensive stats. What will it be, hmm..

Pidgemie:

Water/Flying. Best fit.

Herasir:

Yeah, stays the same. Mono bug doesn't benefit or its mega.
 
I only got Tyranichomp (Tyranitar + Garchomp) as the old winning fusion (Hazard and Harem counts as the new fusions). I'm thinking to change it's type from Rock/Dragon to Dark/Ground. Would it be better to keep Dragon/Rock typing or change it to Dark/Ground? I'm asking this because there are too many Dragon types and Rock is a crappy typing, even though it gets SpD x1.5 boost in Sandstorm due to ability.

Here's Tyranichomp in case anyone forgot about it.

Chopin Alkaninoff said:
Parents: Tyranitar / Garchomp
Shared egg group: Monster
Offspring name: Tyranichomp
New type: Rock / Dragon
New base stats: 114 / 142 / 112 / 97 / 102 / 91
New ability and desc: Sand Aura - Summon Sandstorm and get evasion boost by x1.25 in Sandstorm.
Notable moves: Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, Draco Meteor, Earthquake, Ice Punch, Ice Beam, Fire Punch, Fire Blast, Thunder Punch, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Flamethrower, Iron Head.
Role identification: This is more like a Physical Attacker. This thing has very high Attack stats, VERY bulky in both sides, considering it also get Special Defense boost in Sandstorm and get Dragon Dance with a decent Speed. Also gets wide Special coverage if needed to surprise opponent with it. Also no 4x weaknesses, even though it has 6 weaknesses.

Parents: Tyranitar / Garchomp
Shared egg group: Monster
Offspring name: (Tyranitarite)
New type: Rock / Dragon
New base stats: 114 / 172 / 152 / 97 / 122 / 101
New ability and desc: Sand Stream
Notable moves: Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, Draco Meteor, Earthquake, Ice Punch, Ice Beam, Fire Punch, Fire Blast, Thunder Punch, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Flamethrower, Iron Head.
Role identification: Much more bulk than before. Also has higher Attack and nice 101 Speed.

Parents: Tyranitar / Garchomp
Shared egg group: Monster
Offspring name: (Garchompite)
New type: Rock / Dragon
New base stats: 114 / 182 / 132 / 137 / 112 / 81
New ability and desc: Sand Force
Notable moves: Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, Draco Meteor, Earthquake, Ice Punch, Ice Beam, Fire Punch, Fire Blast, Thunder Punch, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Flamethrower, Iron Head.
Role identification: This is slower, but has higher Attack. One of the most important thing this has is SAND STREAM PRE MEGA THEN SAND FORCE!!! If you remember OU Theorymon in Sand Force Mega Tyranitar's slate, this is pretty much the same.
Click to expand...
 
FALCOWNPAUNCH! said:
I actually preferred the name "Lucharama" because of how cool it sounded. Anyway, my main question about this fusion is, is a Power Herb consumed before you attack with a two-turn move? Because, if it does, you have Sky Attack, a 210 BP move with STAB included, coming off of an effective 174 base Attack. Afterwards, you can just use Acrobatics with impunity, coupled with Close Combat/HJK and some other coverage move for those that resist your aerial assaults. All in all, Lucharma seems really fun to play.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Power Herb Unburden works like this, so I don't see why not. It still means you're carrying a one-use nuke instead of a more reliable attack though, so it's not as crazy as it sounds imo.
 
Akiii said:
I'm not sure if this fits here but both of Slowking's other abilities (Regenerator and Oblivious) would probably be better because they help recover back to full HP for Sturdy or just a better way of recovery and/or give it a Taunt immunity (which is pretty big, considering it has to set up something to become dangerous).
Click to expand...

Now that you mention it, Oblivious is probably better than Own Tempo because a Taunt immunity for such a wall as Bastioking is pretty great. However, we can't have Regenerator, because it's HA :( Anyway, how do I change the fusion's Ability?

That said, I've come up with a name for Oblivious + Sturdy: Unwitting Wall.

Also that Chesdon + Bastioking core sounds pretty awesome. All it needs is an Aromatherapy/Heal Bell user and you're set!
 
Thoughts on my previous fusions...

Hawlusharp: There are lots of possible combinations I can play around with here. I have the option of changing its typing to Steel/Fighting, Steel/Flying or Dark/Flying. Let's look at each.

Steel/Fighting: Tempting, as it's a better defensive typing than Dark/Fighting and it's not that bad offensively either. The problem is that Iron Head is really the only STAB move that Hawlusharp can use with it (if only Bisharp could learn Bullet Punch), and I don't want to give up STAB Sucker Punch.

Steel/Flying: A great defensive typing, but Hawlusharp isn't a defensive mon. Plus, above point about STAB Sucker Punch.

Dark/Flying: This sounds like the strongest alternative, since Dark/Flying is a pretty deadly STAB combo, as any Honchkrow user can tell you. On the whole, though, I think Hawlusharp is better served with Fighting STAB than Flying, since its Fighting moves are more reliable (if only Hawlucha could learn Brave Bird), and I don't think STAB Sky Attack/Acrobatics is worth giving up STAB Drain Punch/High Jump Kick, not to mention the Stealth Rock weakness. Hawlusharp stays the same.

Chesdon: Stays the same. The only alternative is Ground/Fighting, and while Ground/Grass is a pretty bad defensive typing, Ground/Fighting isn't much better, and it disallows Chesdon from taking full advantage of its ability.

Skaria: Actually, I have a question about this one. Can you change the order of its typing?

As of now, Skaria is a Dragon/Steel type that becomes a Dragon/Fairy type when it mega evolves. Am I allowed to switch it around so that it's a Steel/Dragon type that becomes Steel/Fairy when it mega evolves?
 
Alright, Maladuck's typing can be changed from Water/Psychic to Water/Dark, I guess?

Also, the fusion's proper name should be Lucharama from now on.
 
I narrowed down Garchados' typings to:

Water/Dragon (original typing)
Dragon/Water (allows for a Dragon/Dark Gyaradosite mega evolution)
Ground/Water (best fit imo, Ground/Dark Mold Breaker seems pretty great, can actually abuse Sand Force with a SAB)
Water/Ground (Water/Dark is still better defensively and this keeps Garchompite intact)
 
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