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Gastrodon

PokéMontage said:
Swampert may have to watch out. It seems like Gastrodon is the first Water/Ground type that may be able to truly compete for a team slot with the mud fish. I would say that they're actually on par with each other defensively. Swampert has a lot more Defense but Gastrodon counteracts this with Recover and an extra immunity.

Really, it all comes down to Stealth Rock.
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Quagsire says hi. Although Gastrodon gets Storm Drain to boost its Sp. Atk, Quagsire has Water Absorb. Quagsire also has the frankly amazing Unaware, allowing it to set up on common stat boosters like Rohbushin and Cloyster.

Storm Drain allows Gastrodon to hit quite hard with Special moves though, making it a better Stockpiler than Quagsire. I think Gastrodon is bulkier too. But Unaware alone means Quagsire should also be considered as a Water/Ground.
 
Looks Gastrodon could be a menace in UU or maybe OU?

Is there any Team Benefit? I wonder if there is any decent pokemon that it could work with
 
Network said:
Looks Gastrodon could be a menace in UU or maybe OU?

Is there any Team Benefit? I wonder if there is any decent pokemon that it could work with
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Depending on the tier, Herbivore users would love teaming up with Gastrodon to attempt a sweep. Baffuron is a quite bulky hitter alongside Gastrodon, while Mebukijika provides a faster way of sweeping. sadly none of theselures in water attacks.

Fire types also make good partners absorbing grass attacks and baiting water type moves. Especially Arcanine could work well because of Intimidate, moderate bulk and Morning Sun.
 
JojoX3 said:
Depending on the tier, Herbivore users would love teaming up with Gastrodon to attempt a sweep. Baffuron is a quite bulky hitter alongside Gastrodon, while Mebukijika provides a faster way of sweeping. sadly none of theselures in water attacks.
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Neither of them can really threaten a sweep in OU, due to poor speed. If they all end up UU, it may be a different story.
 
Gastro goes well with the Herbivores like Afrobull with that glaring Grass weakness. And no-one says every member of a rain dance team has to have a water move, anyway..
 
Squishy!

Gastrodon might have just found it's niche. It's the only water type with Sand strength isn't it? Also he has STAB earthquake/Earth power along with a water immunity (if you go with storm drain)
 
A Man In Black said:
Neither of them can really threaten a sweep in OU, due to poor speed. If they all end up UU, it may be a different story.
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The best part of SeasonDeer is it's ability to baton pass the Herbivore boost. If you can Swords Damce or agility, you can potentially pass a +3 Attack boost or +1/+2 Attack/Speed. Perfect for, say, Dragonite, resisting Mebujika's weakness to Fire/Fighting/Bug. Or Flash Fire Arcanine(+2 Flare Blitz says GG)
 
Celest said:
The best part of SeasonDeer is it's ability to baton pass the Herbivore boost. If you can Swords Damce or agility, you can potentially pass a +3 Attack boost or +1/+2 Attack/Speed. Perfect for, say, Dragonite, resisting Mebujika's weakness to Fire/Fighting/Bug. Or Flash Fire Arcanine(+2 Flare Blitz says GG)
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Don't forget priority attackers with extreme speed (aka Lucario), but Gastrodon is a great pivot against rain teams, and with it's special attack being higher than quagsire, it outclasses quagsire as a tank

It's dream world ability is not that viable in the OU. A base stat in the 60s, that low amount of speed makes other sand strength users more viable, like the sand genie and the steel mole
 
Synth_Metal said:
It's dream world ability is not that viable in the OU. A base stat in the 60s, that low amount of speed makes other sand strength users more viable, like the sand genie and the steel mole
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Its base attack is 83 and its base SpA is 92 IIRC. That's far from weak.

Sand Strength is not viable merely because the water immunity Storm Drain provides is far better for a Sanstorm team, which may have numerous pokes weak to water.
 
Breludicolo said:
Its base attack is 83 and its base SpA is 92 IIRC. That's far from weak.

Sand Strength is not viable merely because the water immunity Storm Drain provides is far better for a Sanstorm team, which may have numerous pokes weak to water.
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I'm not saying it can't hit hard, I'm just saying that it's slow and easily revenge-killed
 
92 SpA is not impressive. Spiritomb, Chatot, and Abomasnow all have the same special attack, and Electivire has more. 83 Attack is even worse. Storm Drain certaintly helps, though.
 
Bynine said:
92 SpA is not impressive. Spiritomb, Chatot, and Abomasnow all have the same special attack, and Electivire has more. 83 Attack is even worse. Storm Drain certaintly helps, though.
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92 SpAtk is great for a defensive pokemon. The main way for it dealing damage is through passive damage from hazards and status(Toxic, Burn). The Burn of Boiling Water takes it's toll on many, and Earth Power's chance to drop SpDef really hurts(especially if you got a Storm Drain boost).

It may not be Vaporeon, but it's certainly not Shuckle.


And EvoStone Shellos doesn't work. The biggest defensive asset in Gastroscope arsenal is it's HP. As Shellos you have major HP loss, with little defensive gain(since Evo stone's boost is equivalent to 1 Stockpile, and rids you of Lefties recovery)
 
Just putting this out there but... Gastrodon has THREE eyes! : / I just looked it up on google and it was winking with all 3 eyes... so I went to bulbapedia and sure enough it said it grows a thrid eye! My mind is FREAKING blown!

And this thing is kicking some major ass. Most people are unaware of Storm Drain and fire off water attacks anyways. Even if they know how it works, it gets a nice boost if you switch it into a water move.
 
Wichu said:
Quagsire says hi. Although Gastrodon gets Storm Drain to boost its Sp. Atk, Quagsire has Water Absorb. Quagsire also has the frankly amazing Unaware, allowing it to set up on common stat boosters like Rohbushin and Cloyster.

Storm Drain allows Gastrodon to hit quite hard with Special moves though, making it a better Stockpiler than Quagsire. I think Gastrodon is bulkier too. But Unaware alone means Quagsire should also be considered as a Water/Ground.
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Then Quagsire realizes it is terrible (outside of niche Water Absorb usage)
 
Shhh! Don't hurt it's feelings! Just because molluscs have evolved past the level of amphibians!
EDIT: Seriously though, they aren't exactly the same Pokemon, and Quagsire can be good at stopping weaker sweepers that NEED boosts like Altaria. Also, if Quagsire switches in on a Water attack, it gets health back! It wouldn't appreciate +1 Sp. Atk.
 
LevitatingLamprey said:
Shhh! Don't hurt it's feelings! Just because molluscs have evolved past the level of amphibians!
EDIT: Seriously though, they aren't exactly the same Pokemon, and Quagsire can be good at stopping weaker sweepers that NEED boosts like Altaria. Also, if Quagsire switches in on a Water attack, it gets health back! It wouldn't appreciate +1 Sp. Atk.
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Well, then it can't stop set-up sweepers
 
Isn't Altaria a UU set-up sweeper with DD? I thought raising stats through auxiliary moves qualified? I agree Quaggy isn't the top of the ladder, but 95/85/65 is enough to deal with some lower-level threats, like aforementioned Altaria. It has Recover and yawn to help it. (I know Altaria has Natural Cure but I'm talking general here!)
 
masterful said:
Then Quagsire realizes it is terrible (outside of niche Water Absorb usage)
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Didn't we just have a huge debate in Rankurusu's thread about why Quagsire is not a terrible Pokemon?

Code: 
252 Hp/ 252 Def Unaware Quagsire

252 Atk Adamant Balloon Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (37.6% - 44.4%) 
252 Atk Adamant Life Orb Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (49% - 57.9%) 
252 Atk Jolly Balloon Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (34.3% - 40.4%)
252 Atk Jolly Life Orb Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (44.2% - 52%)

Until Gastrodon can come in on Pokemon like Doryuuzu and take hits (as well as be able to Recover off nearly all the damage against almost all variants of them), and force a switch with Encore, or have the ability Unaware (and cripple them by changing the weather ontop of ignoring boosts), Quagsire and Gastrodon cannot really be compared because they will serve different functions when being used.

However, I will concede, that Quagsire and Gastrodon are very, very similar. So much so that I didn't realize it until just a moment ago. The biggest difference between them being Haze, Encore, and Unaware (outside of, you know, stats and abilities). Aside from Unaware, Gastrodon is probably going to be the better Pokemon, and should probably always be used over Quagsire unless you need an Unaware + Encore/Haze Pokemon.
 
Quagsire and Gastrodon are similar... if you want them to be. Otherwise, they both have distinct moves/ stat spreads/ abilities that can be emphasised to serve entirely different roles.

Quagsire, with Unaware, is much more of a "utility" counter, since it can come in several times during a match and force a switch/ mess shit up with Encore/ Yawn/ whatever.

Gastrodon is much more of a "once its in, its staying in" kind of Poke, at least to me anyway. If it nets a Storm Drain boost its SpA is actually going to be excellent for what is essentially a 100% defensive Pokemon which won't be investing in attacking, so it will not want to give that up too easily.

The only way Gastrodon outclasses Quagsire (by virtue of base stats alone) is if you have:

Water Absorb/Storm Drain
-Recover
-Toxic
-Water Type move
-Ground Type move
 
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