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Gastrodon

Cshadow said:
Didn't we just have a huge debate in Rankurusu's thread about why Quagsire is not a terrible Pokemon?

Code: 
252 Hp/ 252 Def Unaware Quagsire

252 Atk Adamant Balloon Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (37.6% - 44.4%) 
252 Atk Adamant Life Orb Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (49% - 57.9%) 
252 Atk Jolly Balloon Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (34.3% - 40.4%)
252 Atk Jolly Life Orb Doryuuzu Earthquake (100 Base Power): (44.2% - 52%)
Until Gastrodon can come in on Pokemon like Doryuuzu and take hits (as well as be able to Recover off nearly all the damage against almost all variants of them), and force a switch with Encore, or have the ability Unaware (and cripple them by changing the weather ontop of ignoring boosts), Quagsire and Gastrodon cannot really be compared because they will serve different functions when being used.

However, I will concede, that Quagsire and Gastrodon are very, very similar. So much so that I didn't realize it until just a moment ago. The biggest difference between them being Haze, Encore, and Unaware (outside of, you know, stats and abilities). Aside from Unaware, Gastrodon is probably going to be the better Pokemon, and should probably always be used over Quagsire unless you need an Unaware + Encore/Haze Pokemon.
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Gastrodon is better since it is immune to water (I'm assuming the anti-setup sweeper set is running Unaware), has far better HP, far better SpD, and can do far more while in play with or without a +1 boost, thanks to its (moderately) high SpA
 
Quagsire's former niche of walling Kyogre has been gracefully passed to this little fella. Quagsire's job is now Unaware abuse. Using Water Absorb Quagsire is retarded, unless you need it to set up Stealth Rocks badly.
 
Gastrodon and Quagsire both have amazing abilities and reliable recovery, but Stealth Rock and Roar are used in conjunction with Swampert 90% of the time for a reason: he is a prime example of a reliable OU wall and supporter. This is a stronger gen, of course, and he hasn't done a very good job of keeping up, but he's still balanced significantly in ways Gastrodon and Quagsire aren't and can do so much better than them even without recovery.

Do you know how much power there is in delaying the fight and scouting switches instead of being absolutely forced into mano-a-mano with such limited tools in at your disposal? Tell that to all of the people who used Swamp over Quag and Gastrodon all throughout 4th gen. If Swampert gets ANY kind of recovery at all this gen, even if it's just Moonlight or Morning Sun, Gastrodon and Quagsire are going right back to NU.
 
SJCrew said:
If Swampert gets ANY kind of recovery at all this gen, even if it's just Moonlight or Morning Sun, Gastrodon and Quagsire are going right back to NU.
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But they'll still have their niche roles as Kyogre counters in Ubers (especially Gastrodon). Also, if Swampert ever gets the move it'll probably from Dream World and that means no Stealth Rock, meaning it'll only be good for a shuffler/bulky water (if roar is still a TM).

Now, onto the Gastrodon-talk. Gastrodon now outclasses Quagsire at its main usage outside of UU: checking Kyogre. With +SpA from Kyogre's water moves, it can even hit back! It can also Stockpile up for stally justice against Kyogre while the Leviathan's HP is whittled down by Toxic damage. However, Quagsire also got a role for checking strong setup sweepers in OU like Doryuuzu. It also has higher Defence (but admittedly pathetic SpD).
 
Also, if Swampert ever gets the move it'll probably from Dream World and that means no Stealth Rock, meaning it'll only be good for a shuffler/bulky water (if roar is still a TM).
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I was actually referring to move tutors from possible future 5th gen installments. Regardless, I just wanted to point out the big difference between Swampert with recovery and Swampert without spells an entire tier displacement from two Pokemon who already do his job worse.
 
what make gastrodon awesome is that it can wall special atatcks in uber meta. It take DM from LO ray like a champ.
 
Because Swampert is bulkier (though, not more bulky that Hippowdon iirc) and has (this is up for debate I suppose) better typing than the three Pokemon you mentioned? The point was that Swampert can set up Stealth Rock while the others cannot. It depends on what you team needs really.
 
Any one know how well Stockpile sets work? I never bothered to try one, but out of all Ground/Water types, this dude right here is the only one capable of boosting both its defenses, maybe giving it just enough bulk to heal off damage taken when the switch in attacks it? (Cuz usually when it takes a neutral hit it gets below 50% which means it's gonna die next turn. ^_^')
 
If it gets the opportunity to set up, Stockpile Gastro is a pest to take down. With Boiling Water/Toxic it´s even harder to deal with, because you can´t just wait for critical hits.
Getting one Stockpile is not that hard, just find something on your opponent´s team that can´t do anything against it. The same as every setupper actually. After two SPs one really needs a crit to take it on. Or a grass move.
 
Just doing a harmless bump. I just realized this thing is amazing at checking Rotom-W. Its immune to its STABS and Twave. The problem is it can't DO anything to it. They just sit there...staring at each other. Until one dies. But most people pack Toxic on their Gastrodons so maybe that might be a way to end the stalemate.
 
Well, any Curse or similar boosting set could just begin setting up on Rotom-H, even if it lacks Toxic.

Also, Gastrodon is amazing for Triple battles. Surf spamming boosts its SpA to insane levels.
 
Aleva said:
Is a Choice Specs set viable? Anyone tried?
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Specs is absolutely viable given the popularity of Water types and Water attacks in general. With a Storm Drain and Specs boost, Gastrodon hits 700 SpA. Not to mention Gastrodon gets perfect coverage with its STABs and Ice Beam. See my analysis for details! :)

Also, I can attest to Stalemates between Gastrodon and Rotom W, I've often run out of PP trying to get the thing to switch :P
 
necking the thread for the sake of one of the most underrated threat that should be in OU.
this motherfucker is sexy
i've been using this thing on a sand + rain dual team and even thought he team itself is only decent, this pokemon alone checks and walls so many things. as many of you already know, fucking with thundurus is just too awesome (for example among many of its quality traits)
 
Thundurus are beginning to run Grass Knot over Failblast now for Gastrodon and Quagsire, which is really hurting Gastrodon. However, I agree than Gastrodon is a fucking tank. It laughs at so many high end OUs depending on their sets including Thundurus, Latios, Heatran, Rotom-W, Starmie, Politoed... yeah you get the picture. It absolutely baffles me how Swampert's usage is above Gastrodon. An even bigger travesty is that Swampert is being used more than ****ing Quagsire, who has become one of the best shut down pokemon in the game. Both Quagsire and Gastrodon have so many qualities that put them faaaaaaaaaaar above Swampert.
 
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