Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

Kommo-o, I'm wondering if this mode should be counted separately from the standard multi mode where you partner with an NPC - later battle facilities don't distinguish, but they're considered separate modes in Emerald, and the internal records are counted as such. It's certainly a very different experience from partnering with an NPC.
For the moment being, I am not separating leaderboards any further, however, I did made the disntinction since I remember that your first Multi streak was done with an NPC partner that used your 2nd game's team. On this case, since this new Multi streak was done by you controlling both players, as such I updated this on the leaderboard. Hopefully it does differentiate both streaks and thanks for filling that empty slot! Let me know if you have another suggestion since I don't have experience on how Gen 3 Multi battles work.

I did try to use your trick on registering an NPC with a party I wanted them to use. However, it didn't worked and instead I got a rooster full of apprentices. I asked Runeblade14's save file to test but couldn't get their NPC registered on my save file. Dunno since I did made a couple of Multi battle runs.
 
I did try to use your trick on registering an NPC with a party I wanted them to use. However, it didn't worked and instead I got a rooster full of apprentices. I asked Runeblade14's save file to test but couldn't get their NPC registered on my save file. Dunno since I did made a couple of Multi battle runs.
If it's a new streak, the NPC partner won't appear during the first round - not sure why. I'm fairly sure they won't appear if they have the same species as you, due to species clause* but otherwise they should show up in the Battle Salon from the second round onwards. Perhaps if their recorded streak was in Multi, they'll only show up from the start of their streak? So if Player A has a Multi record of 21 (with NPCs) and they mix records with player B, player B might only encounter them from the fourth round onwards. Hmm. Something else to research.

*weirdly, this does not apply to regular NPCs - I once did a Multi run with Starmie and Hitmonlee and partnered with an NPC who also had a Hitmonlee. Much like Multi mode in Gen IV onwards, item clause is not in effect.
 
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After days of searching I've finally found a suitable Latios in the R/S Battle Tower. Timid, perfect IVs, and shiny.
Latios Shiny sprite from Black & White

It turns out that someone actually did go frame by frame to find the right conditions to RNG a timid Latios in the R/S Battle Tower. They even went a step further and used TID/SID manipulation to make the Latios shiny. Just phenomenal work, even if their description had issues.

Here's my guide for their post:
  1. Get a copy of Ruby or Sapphire with a dead battery (or turn off real-time clock in your emulator).
  2. Use TID/SID manipulation to make frame 3636 a shiny frame.
    1. In R/S this just means generating your TID/SID on frame 3636. Start a new game and wait until about frame 3558 before Prof. Birch uses the shrink ray on you. The delay in about 78 frames from final dialogue to generation.
    2. This yields the TID of 56656 and the SID of 51494.
    3. Feel free to RNG your starter at frame 3636 to verify things. You should get one that's shiny and timid.
  3. Beat the game. A fast run takes several hours to complete.
    1. If you have an option then Sapphire is faster than Ruby because of Kyogre.
    2. Mudkip makes things go pretty quickly.
    3. If you switch to the box legendary right away then their level will be in a good place for the E4.
    4. Catch some level 40s from Victory Road to use as meat shields to heal/revive your real team.
  4. Import or create a team for the Battle Tower and get to a 49 streak.
    1. The R/S Battle Tower is incredibly easy. Even the 'best' AI literally seem to use moves at random.
    2. The trickiest part is safely dying to the shiny Latios. Avoid using leftovers and try to give all three of your team members some way to stall themselves to death.
      1. Latios with momento and Metagross with a choice band + earthquake are my two favorites for this.
  5. RNG time.
    1. In the lobby, talk to the clerk until you've registered for the Tower and saved the game. Hit 'A' at frame 1935, 1936, or 1937. She'll walk you into the battle room where you should see Dragontamer Joel for frame 1935, Cooltrainer Bret for frame 1936, or Triathlete Toby for frame 1937. Frame 1934 is a fighter girl and 1938 is a rocker. If you didn't get a trainer in the target frames then you have to play through all 7 sets to try again.
    2. After getting through the starting dialogue with your opponent, wait until frame 3614 to start the battle. If all goes well then the Pokémon in slot 2 will be a Shiny Latios. Lose to it.
  6. Initiate the R/S roaming Pokémon encounter glitch.
    1. This post describes it pretty well.
    2. A level 40 Crobat with mean look lets you use repels to filter out non-roamers, but you can't evolve Zubat until level 36 if you want mean look before level 40.
    3. Best way to roamer hunt that I've found is to go south of Mauville and go in and out of the cycling road building. Stop when the roamer is on a nearby route and go up into Mauville. Check again and head to an adjacent route. Check again and hopefully you found them.
  7. Trade your Latios to Emerald and keep in mind that it is EV trained.

Something interesting that I found is that your TID/SID actually seems to influence the Battle Tower RNG. While confirming the glitch I had to alter my test save's TID/SID for Latios to spawn at those frames.
 
Here's a post about the YawnLax I first used on a fun/test team with Snorlax, Ice Punch Gar-surviving Liechi DDMence and sweeper Latios. I think this is "Arena news" for everyone who likes to attempt a new 100+ streak. The Arena is one of the most entertaining facilities to test stuff in, since it requires no patience whatsoever. It does invoke smart play and good understanding of the inevitable Judge. The set is as follows, I didn't have a Snorlax image for this general moveset, as it's perfectly executable by other bulky Pokemon such as Walrein, Slowbro/king, Quagsire and Blastoise:

View attachment 326703
Yawner @ Chesto Berry
- Yawn
- Rest
- Main Attack
- Coverage Attack

Usually the strategy goes like this: Yawn, Attack, Rest or Yawn, Rest, Attack. In some cases you don't need Rest and you can keep attacking. I usually burn through the Chesto Berry if I (would) get below around 70% of Snorlax' HP; with more than that, it can still survive a lot of critical hits and Rest up turn 1 against the next opponent. You win Skill and Body because they don't Attack on turn 3, and if they have a Chesto/Lum Berry you either Yawn them again on turn 3 or just finish them off if that seems better. The good thing is that you get this info on turn 2.

YawnLax is definitely the best user of the strategy, and it turned out to work so well in Arena everybody's building teams around it. The original test team got way improved of course, but Snorlax' ability to work through 2 or 3 opponents consistently by regaining its HP, outbulking and outdamaging the opponent is really fantastic. The strategy is not affected by Quick Claw, and Yawn is unaffected by Evasion boosts or Brightpowder. Naturally, the question is "what's the best spread"? And what's the best team to back it up?

The long discussions and testing with submenceisop resulted in the following conclusion:
  • Use Adamant and get more actual kills with Shadow Ball + Earthquake coverage;
  • Use the way bulkier, original Careful set, tank more hits, and make up for the loss of power by using Return over Shadow Ball.
Evidently, these approaches require different backup, although any backup should cover Fighting Pokemon, strong Normal-types, and be able to put up a good fight against OHKO abusers. It should also be able to take advantage of free sleeping turns, since Snorlax will often get a Yawn off even if it loses.

The Careful Lax can't touch Gengar, so the second Pokemon should be able to set up on it. My original Liechi Ice Punch-surviving Mence is a joke of course (that's actually really threatening if it doesn't get haxed, which it does too often), but a serious candidate teammate is Timid Calm Mind Latios, who takes incredible of advantage of Yawn, and even gets a free Calm Mind against Snorlax-critting Machamp for example.

On the other hand, the Adamant set allows more variation in the second spot. Latios still works of course, but since Ghost-types and Pokemon with Psychic/Electric coverage are no longer a real threat to Snorlax, Dragon Dance Substitute Gyarados is a very solid option for the second spot, and Intimidate is always useful, even on the second-to-last Pokemon. Gyarados also fights bulky Water OHKO users better than Latios, since its Substitutes can be made to tank a variety of weaker Ice Beams with good probability, while retaining plenty of offensive capabilities. Having Gyarados at +1 behind a Substitute can easily turn the game around against a really bad lead matchup.

A glaring downside of Adamant Lax is that it's less secure than expected against special attackers, for example it can get 3HKOed by Raikou Thunderbolt + Thunderbolt CH, and the same holds for Latios Psychic for example, whereas Careful Lax wins against these nearly 100% of the time. And these Pokemon can usually fry through your second Pokemon as well, since the team was built under the assumption that Snorlax takes care of these.

Currently I am are testing more obscure options, like Skarmory, in the second spot. But for the Careful Lax + Latios setup, I wanted to share what I think is a good spread, backed up by some math:

View attachment 326704
Actaeyawn (Snorlax) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 200 HP / 76 Atk / 180 Def / 52 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Yawn
- Return
- Earthquake
- Rest

First of all, I was looking for a HP number that minimizes "roundoff damage" for the Judge. That means it has, on average, the most HP amounts available that do not get screwed by the roundoff the Judge makes when calculating the "Body" percentage from full health. The formule the judge uses is "Score = CurrentHP * 100 / StartHP", and he rounds down the result. So I looped through all possible HP amounts of Snorlax and calculated the percentage of amounts that do get rounded down. This so-called "average roundoff damage" can be seen in the following table. I included all MaxHP's of 70 to 362, so maybe you can use this for your own teambuilding to find good "Arena HPs":

70 42.429
71 48.803
72 46.75
73 48.822
74 48.162
75 33.0
76 46.895
77 48.857
78 48.231
79 48.873
80 37.125
81 48.889
82 48.293
83 48.904
84 47.143
85 46.588
86 48.349
87 48.931
88 47.25
89 48.944
90 44.0
91 48.956
92 47.348
93 48.968
94 48.447
95 46.895
96 47.438
97 48.99
98 48.49
99 49.0
100 0.0
101 49.01
102 48.529
103 49.019
104 47.596
105 47.143
106 48.566
107 49.037
108 47.667
109 49.046
110 45.0
111 49.054
112 47.732
113 49.062
114 48.632
115 47.348
116 47.793
117 49.077
118 48.661
119 49.084
120 41.25
121 49.091
122 48.689
123 49.098
124 47.903
125 39.6
126 48.714
127 49.11
128 47.953
129 49.116
130 45.692
131 49.122
132 48.0
133 49.128
134 48.761
135 47.667
136 48.044
137 49.139
138 48.783
139 49.144
140 42.429
141 49.149
142 48.803
143 49.154
144 48.125
145 47.793
146 48.822
147 49.163
148 48.162
149 49.168
150 33.0
151 49.172
152 48.197
153 49.176
154 48.857
155 47.903
156 48.231
157 49.185
158 48.873
159 49.189
160 43.312
161 49.193
162 48.889
163 49.196
164 48.293
165 48.0
166 48.904
167 49.204
168 48.321
169 49.207
170 46.588
171 49.211
172 48.349
173 49.214
174 48.931
175 42.429
176 48.375
177 49.22
178 48.944
179 49.223
180 44.0
181 49.227
182 48.956
183 49.23
184 48.424
185 48.162
186 48.968
187 49.235
188 48.447
189 49.238
190 46.895
191 49.241
192 48.469
193 49.244
194 48.99
195 48.231
196 48.49
197 49.249
198 49.0
199 49.251
200 24.75
201 49.254
202 49.01
203 49.256
204 48.529
205 48.293
206 49.019
207 49.261
208 48.548
209 49.263
210 47.143
211 49.265
212 48.566
213 49.268
214 49.037
215 48.349
216 48.583
217 49.272
218 49.046
219 49.274
220 45.0
221 49.276
222 49.054
223 49.278
224 48.616
225 44.0
226 49.062
227 49.282
228 48.632
229 49.284
230 47.348
231 49.286
232 48.647
233 49.288
234 49.077
235 48.447
236 48.661
237 49.291
238 49.084
239 49.293
240 45.375
241 49.295
242 49.091
243 49.296
244 48.689
245 48.49
246 49.098
247 49.3
248 48.702
249 49.301
250 39.6
251 49.303
252 48.714
253 49.304
254 49.11
255 48.529
256 48.727
257 49.307
258 49.116
259 49.309
260 45.692
261 49.31
262 49.122
263 49.312
264 48.75
265 48.566
266 49.128
267 49.315
268 48.761
269 49.316
270 47.667
271 49.317
272 48.772
273 49.319
274 49.139
275 45.0
276 48.783
277 49.321
278 49.144
279 49.323
280 45.964
281 49.324
282 49.149
283 49.325
284 48.803
285 48.632
286 49.154
287 49.328
288 48.812
289 49.329
290 47.793
291 49.33
292 48.822
293 49.331
294 49.163
295 48.661
296 48.831
297 49.333
298 49.168
299 49.334
300 33.0
301 49.336
302 49.172
303 49.337
304 48.849
305 48.689
306 49.176
307 49.339
308 48.857
309 49.34
310 47.903
311 49.341
312 48.865
313 49.342
314 49.185
315 48.714
316 48.873
317 49.344
318 49.189
319 49.345
320 46.406
321 49.346
322 49.193
323 49.347
324 48.889
325 45.692
326 49.196
327 49.349
328 48.896
329 49.35
330 48.0
331 49.35
332 48.904
333 49.351
334 49.204
335 48.761
336 48.911
337 49.353
338 49.207
339 49.354
340 46.588
341 49.355
342 49.211
343 49.356
344 48.924
345 48.783
346 49.214
347 49.357
348 48.931
349 49.358
350 42.429
351 49.359
352 48.938
353 49.36
354 49.22
355 48.803
356 48.944
357 49.361
358 49.223
359 49.362
360 46.75
361 49.363
362 49.227

As you can see, there is a "local optimum" at 260, so I settled for that and optimized bulk for it. Note that Snorlax' Defense plus its Special Defense is nearly 260, as the classical rule for optimizing bulk dictates. These calcs are more specific:
  • It royally avoids the 2HKO from Raikou Tbolt + Tbolt crit among other special assaults;
  • It royally avoids the 2HKO from Rhydon and Metagross without critical hits;
  • Machamp does only 95% max without a critical hit;
  • Hariyama-4 is nasty, because it first uses Fake Out and then Cross Chop which is an interesting combined roll. This Snorlax has around 75% chance of being able to use Yawn according to my simulator, based on 10.000 simulations, factoring in crits (and of course misses);
  • It easily lives Rock Slide + Superpower from Regirock.
On the offensive side, it still OHKOs uninvested Houndoom and Raichu for example, and although Return needs (quite favourable) rolls to get some 2HKOs against Psychic-types, you can usually win Body anyway. I decided to ditch the 4 Speed EVs because they introduce a waste of 4 EVs simultaneously, and outspeeding other Snorlax is not necessary, while still outspeeding Slowking/Slowbro is fine and may be helpful to just KO it without taking an extra Surf or Psychic.

I can add some calculations if wished, thanks for reading.
Reporting a 170 Arena streak! I really wanted to hit 200, but missed the cut due to the a bad damage roll. Actaeon reached 219 unofficially (lost to Lapras, Dewgong and Salamence- two sheer cold hits).

Actaeon and I have been teambuilding for a while and we agreed that Yawn Careful Snorlax is the best Arena mon barr none and came to a consensus on it's bulk. Shadowball requires a little too much investment for it to be worthwhile, although its more viable on my gyarados team.
1617140145879.png


Snorlax (God) @ Lum Berry - Set explanation
The optimal 260 HP
4 speed to out speed opposing Snorlax/ Slow twins / Steelix
A good amount of def and SpD
Rest in attack

252+ Atk Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 196 HP / 220 Def Snorlax: 109-129 (41.9 - 49.6%)
252+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 196 HP / 220 Def Snorlax: 200-236 (76.9 - 90.7%)
252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 196 HP / 76+ SpD Snorlax: 67-79 (25.7 - 30.3%)
[/SPOILER]

You have nickname this Snorlax. It adds to the luck factor by like 100%. I nicknamed mine "Unkillable" and it was getting haxxed left and right. "God" is a fitting one for Lax. Basically, this Snorlax dominates judging by timing rest/attacking properly. Notice this Snorlax has LUM BERRY. Both Latios and Lax want it, but it is essential for Snorlax to have it to avoid losses due to confusion/para. In particular, it guarantees the victory vs Greta by spamming return.

Latios ("Soul Dew" ) @ Cheri Berry
Standard Latios set with 3 coverage moves for maximum effectiveness.

1617140410950.png

As expected, Yawn Snorlax unlocks Latios's true potential as a sweeper. It gets the opportunity to set up a CM, while being @ full health in a lot of scenarios. Latios or Snorlax sweeps often and ideally Medi doesn't come out.

1617141539571.png


Medicham (ALL- IN) @ Salac Berry
Set Explanation/ Max attack & Max speed.
Actaeon and I have discussed multiple other spreads. Including 252 attack/ 76 def/ rest in speed. This one avoids the ko from QC snorlax and lives an Adamant Gengar shadow ball ( My loss was to Gengar 2, Cool trainer Vince).
252+ Atk Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 122-144 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Last one is Medicham. It's your haymaker last spot, when things go wrong. I asked Actaeon to try out Heracross for me and the problems of being walled by shedninja and poison types came into play. Medicham has the power and un resisted coverage to destroy things and potentially squeeze out a win. Stab fighting moves are huge godsend after Latios, handling blissey/regis, ice types.

Other choices we discussed: Slaking, CB Ursaring, Heracross, Tauros, Arcanine

I will post some replays. Thank you to Actaeon for watching the streak and his help for making this a reality. We deserve ton of props for figuring this out. Although this team has the potential to cross 200 with good luck. I had pretty good luck until the very end.

Memorable moments
Sailor Omar going 4/4 on ohko moves
Medicham dodging burns from houndoom 3x
Regice NOT attacking latios- Latios won 2x lol

Threat list
Opposing psychic types- spam return targets
Crits from Metagross
QC users obviously
Houndoom vs Latios. It's possible to get haxxed here, but both Actaeon and I never did.
ohko users
Scizor in slot 2. Ended two runs before this.

https://pokepast.es/1c7c1ecf35ae184a

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/531026323

Edit: I'm gonna try this team again. With a different Medicham spread. Adamant 252/76/rest in speed. Really want to hit 200
 

Attachments

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Reporting a 170 Arena streak! I really wanted to hit 200, but missed the cut due to the a bad damage roll. Actaeon reached 219 unofficially (lost to Lapras, Dewgong and Salamence- two sheer cold hits).

Actaeon and I have been teambuilding for a while and we agreed that Yawn Careful Snorlax is the best Arena mon barr none and came to a consensus on it's bulk. Shadowball requires a little too much investment for it to be worthwhile, although its more viable on my gyarados team.
View attachment 327742

Snorlax (God) @ Lum Berry - Set explanation
The optimal 260 HP
4 speed to out speed opposing Snorlax/ Slow twins / Steelix
A good amount of def and SpD
Rest in attack

Defensive calculations
252+ Atk Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 196 HP / 220 Def Snorlax: 109-129 (41.9 - 49.6%)
252+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 196 HP / 220 Def Snorlax: 200-236 (76.9 - 90.7%)
252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 196 HP / 76+ SpD Snorlax: 67-79 (25.7 - 30.3%)

You have nickname this Snorlax. It adds to the luck factor by like 100%. I nicknamed mine "Unkillable" and it was getting haxxed left and right. "God" is a fitting one for Lax. Basically, this Snorlax dominates judging by timing rest/attacking properly. Notice this Snorlax has LUM BERRY. Both Latios and Lax want it, but it is essential for Snorlax to have it to avoid losses due to confusion/para. In particular, it guarantees the victory vs Greta by spamming return.

Latios ("Soul Dew" ) @ Cheri Berry
Set needs no introduction, this is the standard set. As expected, Yawn Snorlax unlocks Latios's true potential as a sweeper. It gets the opportunity to set up a CM, while being @ full health in a lot of scenarios.


View attachment 327743

View attachment 327750

Last one is Medicham. It's your haymaker last spot, when things go wrong. I asked Actaeon to try out Heracross for me and the problems of being walled by shedninja and poison types came into play. Medicham has the power and unresisted coverage to destroy things and potentially squeeze out a win. Stab fighting moves are huge godsend after Latios, handling blissey/regis, ice types.

Set Explanation/ Max attack & Max speed.
Actaeon and I have discussed multiple other spreads. Including 252 attack/ 76 def/ rest in speed. This one avoids the ko from QC snorlax and lives an Adamant Gengar shadow ball ( My loss was to Gengar 2, Cool trainer Vince).

I will post some replays and the loss.
Congratulations for taking that #1 spot on the best way possible! Our voice chat during Actaeon's stream was one hell of an experience but this team operates wonderfully and I'm really glad you were able to break this record. I'm sure you'll be able to break the 200 win barrier soon and I'm confident of your abilities! Best of luck if you're aiming for the 200 wins and congrats submenceisop!!
 
Reporting a 170 Arena streak! I really wanted to hit 200, but missed the cut due to the a bad damage roll. Actaeon reached 219 unofficially (lost to Lapras, Dewgong and Salamence- two sheer cold hits).
Congrats on this! Really excellent work. I was considering investing some time in the Arena and maybe trying out the Lati sandwich team but honestly I think you two have got it nailed, I'm not going to do much better.



Updating my multi level 50 streak to 112 wins. I got to 70 wins with my Joziah save and my Japanese save file, which then parted ways to keep the 70 streak intact on one game. The Joziah save file then partnered with various other games to get to 112. Unfortunately the run ended when the connection was lost, but happily the game still keeps a record of it (rather than just wiping it like it normally does when you quit without saving). Think I'm probably done with this mode for the time being, 112 is pretty decent.

The team remained the same as ever, with Latios + Aerodactyl on one side and Tauros + Latias on the other. I really can't overstate how good Tauros + Latios is as a combo, they're able to KO such a stunning amount between them. Latias combos equally well and has a slight niche in that she blocks Attract users, but the power drop is very noticeable. Aerodactyl is the weak link but it fills many of the same niches: fast, Ground-immune, and very powerful with a Choice Band. Still, it's much more frail than the others and can't get the same momentum if used as a lead, so it's kept as backup and works well as a revenge killer.

Biggest threats to this squad:

-Bulky boosters like Regirock, Registeel, Umbreon, and Snorlax. They're much easier to handle if they come out first. Ganging up is the only recourse but several variants of Snorlax and Regirock can survive two hits.
-Generally anything that forces a switch. If the two leads are Earthquake-weak but the backups are immune, Tauros generally has to switch (unless they're nonthreatening enough to leave alone) and this can be problematic.
-Bulky Counter and Mirror Coat users. Swampert and Scizor can both tank pretty much any hit and reflect it back for a cheap KO. Generally if Swampert appears I avoid attacking it to scout whether it has Counter or Mirror Coat, or simply leave it until it's the last Pokemon on the field so I can gang up on it.
-Steel-types in general (Aggron, Metagross, Forretress, et al) if Tauros has already selected Double-Edge. Latios can't really do much to most of them, bar Skarmory and Steelix.
-Quick Claw Explosion users. Didn't see too many of these but they can really spoil things if they come out first

Couple more observations about this mode:
  • Not sure if it was ever in doubt but for the sake of covering all bases can confirm that species clause is in effect here, unlike in the Gen VI's Maison or Gen VII's Tree; the game will not allow you to join a trainer with one or both of the same species
  • When you link up, you are prompted to choose a leader, much like when you trade or mix records, and the other player must request to join. This has no effect on your streak beyond the ordering of the players; the leader is always the player on the left-hand side
  • I received ribbons upon reaching 56 wins this time so yes, you do get ribbons in this mode
  • Curiously (and I'm probably literally the only person who finds this interesting but here goes) the in-game Record Hall displays my streak as this. The problem? My finished streak wasn't with Zircon - when I broke the streak, I was partnered with my Rald save file. However, the previous round was with Zircon, so I guess the game counts the partner from the final, completed round.
1617193928011.png


1617193411532.png
 
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Reporting a 170 Arena streak! I really wanted to hit 200, but missed the cut due to the a bad damage roll. Actaeon reached 219 unofficially (lost to Lapras, Dewgong and Salamence- two sheer cold hits).

Actaeon and I have been teambuilding for a while and we agreed that Yawn Careful Snorlax is the best Arena mon barr none and came to a consensus on it's bulk. Shadowball requires a little too much investment for it to be worthwhile, although its more viable on my gyarados team.
View attachment 327742

Snorlax (God) @ Lum Berry - Set explanation
The optimal 260 HP
4 speed to out speed opposing Snorlax/ Slow twins / Steelix
A good amount of def and SpD
Rest in attack

Defensive calculations
252+ Atk Choice Band Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 196 HP / 220 Def Snorlax: 109-129 (41.9 - 49.6%)
252+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 196 HP / 220 Def Snorlax: 200-236 (76.9 - 90.7%)
252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 196 HP / 76+ SpD Snorlax: 67-79 (25.7 - 30.3%)

You have nickname this Snorlax. It adds to the luck factor by like 100%. I nicknamed mine "Unkillable" and it was getting haxxed left and right. "God" is a fitting one for Lax. Basically, this Snorlax dominates judging by timing rest/attacking properly. Notice this Snorlax has LUM BERRY. Both Latios and Lax want it, but it is essential for Snorlax to have it to avoid losses due to confusion/para. In particular, it guarantees the victory vs Greta by spamming return.

Latios ("Soul Dew" ) @ Cheri Berry
Standard Latios set with 3 coverage moves for maximum effectiveness.

View attachment 327743
As expected, Yawn Snorlax unlocks Latios's true potential as a sweeper. It gets the opportunity to set up a CM, while being @ full health in a lot of scenarios. Latios or Snorlax sweeps often and ideally Medi doesn't come out.

View attachment 327750

Medicham (ALL- IN) @ Salac Berry
Set Explanation/ Max attack & Max speed.
Actaeon and I have discussed multiple other spreads. Including 252 attack/ 76 def/ rest in speed. This one avoids the ko from QC snorlax and lives an Adamant Gengar shadow ball ( My loss was to Gengar 2, Cool trainer Vince).
252+ Atk Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 122-144 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Last one is Medicham. It's your haymaker last spot, when things go wrong. I asked Actaeon to try out Heracross for me and the problems of being walled by shedninja and poison types came into play. Medicham has the power and un resisted coverage to destroy things and potentially squeeze out a win. Stab fighting moves are huge godsend after Latios, handling blissey/regis, ice types.

Other choices we discussed: Slaking, CB Ursaring, Heracross, Tauros, Arcanine

I will post some replays and the loss. Thank you to Actaeon for watching the streak and his help for making this a reality. We deserve ton of props for figuring this out. I have no interest in coming back to the Arena now. Although this team has the potential to cross 200 with good luck. I had pretty good luck until the very end.

Memorable moments
Sailor Omar going 4/4 on ohko moves
Medicham dodging burns from houndoom 3x
Regice NOT attacking latios- Latios won 2x lol

Threat list
Opposing psychic types- spam return targets
Crits from Metagross
QC users obviously
Houndoom vs Latios. It's possible to get haxxed here, but both Actaeon and I never did.
ohko users
Scizor in slot 2. Ended two runs before this.

https://pokepast.es/1c7c1ecf35ae184a

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/531026323
Centralizing the best item, the lum berry, onto snorlax is one of those genius moves that makes sense when you see it but is so hard to get yourself to do because everything else wants lum too and snorlax is actually a good user of other items so you actually feel like your just losing a good item in chesto or leftovers. Why I like it is that as the bulky lead snorlax will see the most opponents and is slow and likely to get statused and even against the opponents snorlax can't beat you still can make a big play with yawn that takes advantage of not being statused.

salac reversal as the anchor is cool too because you want something that can 1v3 if things go wrong. If anyone is trying to make their own team for the arena I recommend starting with this lead snorlax because there are a lot of decent arena pokemon that can follow it, maybe not as good as latios but tons of interesting ones.

It fills my heart to see an arena team winning that actually wins with some judging and makes use of an arena oddity (yawn). This is a good day for the emerald battle frontier.
 
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For all the players who would like to attempt another streak at the Battle Palace, I'd like to share a team that dgice and I improved, utilizing the infamous DIESAL Struggling Snorlax. Here it is!

CIGARETTE (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Flamethrower

DIESAL (Snorlax) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 164 HP / 92 Def / 252 SpD
Bashful Nature (neutral)
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Double Team
- Rest

RESERVOIR (Suicune) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Protect
- Substitute
- Dive
- Rest

The idea is to Intimidate right from the start, increasing both Snorlax and Suicune's physical bulk instantly. Snorlax sets up on special attackers, but against the really strong ones such as Espeon and Latios, Salamence sacks itself in order to bring in Snorlax without damage (or straight out beats them).

Suicune performs multiple roles: it can stall physical attackers, beat Rock-types, and swallows a ton of PP against anything in general. It either beats or stalls Metagross to the point where the rest of the team easily wins. Including the OHKO-spammers this team is otherwise weak against. It can also hold its own against a variety of Pokemon if something goes wrong with Snorlax.

But usually, you only have to play the first 5 to 10 turns of this team seriously, and after that you can sit back and win while autofiring the A button and rolling a cigarette, hence the Salamence nickname. Note that Sassy nature makes it survive weak Ice Beams and only get 2HKOed by some decently powerful Psychics. Also, Flametrower OHKOs most Scizor and Forretress and Rock Slide has over 50% chance to OHKO Zapdos if necessary.

Oh yeah, Spenser is free after beating Arcanine with Suicune and stalling Slaking out of Hyper Beam PP before setting up Snorlax. Setting up against Arcanine is also possible (although it takes long to outstall Roar), but then you'll be vulnerable to a crit Hyper Beam, which has almost 2% chance of happening through Double Team and +6 Defense. Slaking gets two shots at doing this, however.

Have fun with this, I personally got over 100 pretty easily but off the record, and lost when the autofire button prevented me from switching into Double-Edge Entei to Intimidate it: entirely my own mistake.
This team is the real deal, I do think we've found a team where you are in control of the palace 95% of the time and aren't completely dead the other 5%, the old threats are all still there but we now have at least strategies against them. Dive+earthquake team up against a lot of threats (armaldo, rhydon, regirock, marowak, metagross ect) and pressure stalling gives you a real tool in a lot of risky scenarios. Pressure+intimidate are so good against things like cross chop, this suicune behind an intimidate is a strong pokemon on it's own since it can set up a substitute. What Actaeon didn't mention is how sassy banded (over hasty) rockslide mence is important to help you against threats like lapras where you just risk it and attack hopefully KO'ing but even if you lose at least your suicune gets a turn to use it's speed to avoid an OHKO. It also helps against the flying dragon dancers.

There are several threats after setting up, getting double countered (Snorlax's giant hp stat helps here), getting ohko moved (ignores double team, but i would rather have a set up snorlax when facing one so I have 3 pokemon that can attack the ohko user instead of 2),
psych up (generally snorlax with it's high base stats and leftovers will be better here especially if they are wasting turns on psych up). Destiny bond if it's their second pokemon. I've added a notice on the Thomaz sheet for how many counter/OHKO users they have but most trainers have several.

Swap stalling special attackers with elemental punches is interesting. Your goal is just to stall as many moves as you can to decrease the likely hood of snorlax getting burned after you have rest. If your opponent has higher power moves like psychic or thunderbolt they will mostly use those before fire punch. You need to be careful with suicune in this situation to know when to let it stay in to use it's chesto and eventually stop taking damage with it around 45% health in a lot of scenarios. Also you probably want to burn some turns keeping snorlax in on threating moves hopefully getting off an amnesia as it can take way more hits than suicune and you have some extra moves, you just don't want to go to far below 6 on your set up moves and fewer rests used is of course better.

Swords dance is just try and attack them but curse/dragon dance you can intimidate and in fact you need to otherwise you end up with a +6+6 quagsire struggling using your own strategy against you.

If only the streak we counted was how many turns you survived before losing instead of how many battles, this team would dominate. Snorlax alone takes 53 moves to set up, multiplied by (1/0.85) for all the time you don't move equals 62 plus the 8 turns it takes to struggle your opponets to death. Then you're often stalling out another pokemon before switching to snorlax which can be 20-40 turns. I tried struggle lax on retail before and iirc each battle took 30-60 minutes.
I'm going to attempt this on retail some day (probably going to be awhile to get another suicune since I like resetting for it the old fashioned way, I have pretty close parents for the other two) but when I do I will probably use the bulky aggressive team to get to at least 70 first (maybe end on a palace maven round since those are easier since the maven is easy to setup on). And against trainers like guitarist or grass types I will probably just attack with salamence even if it's a free setup with snorlax.

It's hard to remember what my 99 win team was like right now, but to compare the two your snorlax matchups turn into opportunites to setup for the most part besides some calm minders that may require some assistance now, and your suicune matchups get a little worse without surf and ice beam to protect you from attack boosters. Salamence not being hasty give you a lot more confidence in the matchups it sweeps in but does make it harder when it needs to trade punches and 2hko


I recorded several hours of play with live commentary but I didn't find many interesting matches, here is just one sample.

long version:

I still want to work through some ideas around shedninja in the palace since it is a hard counter to so many pokemon but I haven't really started. It probably pairs well with something like physically defensive claydol or flygon since they resist it's weaknesses and have earthquake for lots of threats. Needs something for the elemental punchers though. Or like a shedninja paired next to a physical version of struggle lax (regirock or registeel) where the plan is to set up against physical pokemon. It might be able to function next to offensive flygon and suicune.
 
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This team is the real deal, I do think we've found a team where you are in control of the palace 95% of the time and aren't completely dead the other 5%, the old threats are all still there but we now have at least strategies against them. Dive+earthquake team up against a lot of threats (armaldo, rhydon, regirock, marowak, metagross ect) and pressure stalling gives you a real tool in a lot of risky scenarios. Pressure+intimidate are so good against things like cross chop, this suicune behind an intimidate is a strong pokemon on it's own since it can set up a substitute. What Actaeon didn't mention is how sassy banded (over hasty) rockslide mence is important to help you against threats like lapras where you just risk it and attack hopefully KO'ing but even if you lose at least your suicune gets a turn to use it's speed to avoid an OHKO. It also helps against the flying dragon dancers.

There are several threats after setting up, getting double countered (Snorlax's giant hp stat helps here), getting ohko moved (ignores double team, but i would rather have a set up snorlax when facing one so I have 3 pokemon that can attack the ohko user instead of 2),
psych up (generally snorlax with it's high base stats and leftovers will be better here especially if they are wasting turns on psych up). Destiny bond if it's their second pokemon. I've added a notice on the Thomaz sheet for how many counter/OHKO users they have but most trainers have several.

Swap stalling special attackers with elemental punches is interesting. Your goal is just to stall as many moves as you can to decrease the likely hood of snorlax getting burned after you have rest. If your opponent has higher power moves like psychic or thunderbolt they will mostly use those before fire punch. You need to be careful with suicune in this situation to know when to let it stay in to use it's chesto and eventually stop taking damage with it around 45% health in a lot of scenarios. Also you probably want to burn some turns keeping snorlax in on threating moves hopefully getting off an amnesia as it can take way more hits than suicune and you have some extra moves, you just don't want to go to far below 6 on your set up moves and fewer rests used is of course better.

Swords dance is just try and attack them but curse/dragon dance you can intimidate and in fact you need to otherwise you end up with a +6+6 quagsire struggling using your own strategy against you.

If only the streak we counted was how many turns you survived before losing instead of how many battles, this team would dominate. Snorlax alone takes 53 moves to set up, multiplied by (1/0.85) for all the time you don't move equals 62 plus the 8 turns it takes to struggle your opponets to death. Then you're often stalling out another pokemon before switching to snorlax which can be 20-40 turns. I tried struggle lax on retail before and iirc each battle took 30-60 minutes.
I'm going to attempt this on retail some day (probably going to be awhile to get another suicune since I like resetting for it the old fashioned way, I have pretty close parents for the other two) but when I do I will probably use the bulky aggressive team to get to at least 70 first (maybe end on a palace maven round since those are easier since the maven is easy to setup on). And against trainers like guitarist or grass types I will probably just attack with salamence even if it's a free setup with snorlax.

It's hard to remember what my 99 win team was like right now, but to compare the two your snorlax matchups turn into opportunites to setup for the most part besides some calm minders that may require some assistance now, and your suicune matchups get a little worse without surf and ice beam to protect you from attack boosters. Salamence not being hasty give you a lot more confidence in the matchups it sweeps in but does make it harder when it needs to trade punches and 2hko


I recorded several hours of play with live commentary but I didn't find many interesting matches, here is just one sample.

long version:

I still want to work through some ideas around shedninja in the palace since it is a hard counter to so many pokemon but I haven't really started. It probably pairs well with something like physically defensive claydol or flygon since they resist it's weaknesses and have earthquake for lots of threats. Needs something for the elemental punchers though. Or like a shedninja paired next to a physical version of struggle lax (regirock or registeel) where the plan is to set up against physical pokemon. It might be able to function next to offensive flygon and suicune.
This is a very thorough post about the "Cigarette" team (honored to see you use my nicknames aside from Diesal lol), I agree with everything you mentioned. Surf on Suicune is a lifesaver in some scenarios and does make it a little bit better in 1v1 scenarios, but Dive is generally way more dependable when it comes to stalling PP. If Cune would be able to carry Leftovers, Dive would be even better of course.

For some reason though, whenever I use Dive as the attacking move, Suicune seems to choose the Defensive moves less often, which I don't understand. Maybe it's just a feeling because Dive is "two attacking moves at once". In some scenarios, although rarely, I found the double-powered Surf of the opponent to do a little too much damage while using Dive. So I'm still not really pertinent on Surf or Dive; they both have really important functions in different matchups.

Rock Slide is probably the most important move on the entire Salamence, I forgot to mention indeed. Stopping those DD'ers cheaply and having a good chance to 2HKO Lapras/Walrein before they get a chance to do something is perfect.

For the Whiscash battle by the way, you were right about not switching back to Salamence when you got Suicune in; a random Ice Beam or Fissure on the switch, which can happen even if Salamence is immune to Fissure lol) spells doom. If only switchstalling was a decent strategy in Palace haha.
I really like your video's, and hope this team will heighten the ceiling of the Palace!
 
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honored to see you use my nicknames aside from Diesal lol
I didn't have them at first but I went in and changed them for the recording because I just had to pay my respects for how you came in and solved problems I described and problems I didn't describe. Seeing your improvements to the team was an awesome feeling. They're both great nicknames too, I'm probably gonna change cigarette when I play on retail though because I just don't like thinking about cigarettes.
 
I am so incredibly happy to share that I have attained all 7 golden symbols for the first time in my life. I remember pre-ordering Pokémon Emerald and pouring over the promotional material for the battle frontier. I dreamed of becoming the master of all seven facilities but never had any success. Today I was able to fulfill that dream, and I could not have done it without the wonderful people and resources here. From the bottom of my heart: thank you all.
All Gold Symbols.png

For completion's sake, here are my posts for each facility so far: Battle Tower, Battle Dome, Battle Pyramid, Battle Arena, and Battle Factory [RNG].

Battle Pike.png


I am not the biggest fan of the Pike, though I definitely see its appeal! I based my team off of this team by submenceisop.

:rs/Gengar:
Gengar @ Lum Berry (Timid)
Psychic / Ice Punch / Thunderbolt / Fire Punch
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe [173 Speed]
IVs: 0 Attack

I decided to switch perish song for psychic to make some battles easier. It's much less optimal but my goal was 140 and this did the trick.

:rs/Metagross:
Metagross @ Choice Band (Adamant)
Hidden Power (Steel) / Shadow Ball / Earthquake / Explosion
EVs: 4 HP / 252Atk / 252Spe [122 Speed]
IVs: 30 SpD

Metagross has been on every team I've shared thus far. Just an amazing Pokémon. Them and Gengar are both immune to poison.

:rs/Blissey:
Blissey @ Leftovers (Bold)
Seismic Toss / Toxic / Soft-boiled / Aromatherapy
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Def / 84 Spe [86 Speed]
IVs: 0 Atk, perfect otherwise
Credits: Obtained from the kind folks at the Bank of Hoenn.

Cleric and clutch. Natural cure is a godsend.

Battle Palace.png


The final facility standing between me and all gold symbols.

:rs/Latios:
Latios @ Lum Berry (Hasty)
Dragon Claw / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Calm Mind
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe [173 Speed]
IVs: Perfect.
Notes: Obtained using the R/S Battle Tower glitch. I'm working on a write-up with more details, but the frames are 1935 in the lobby and 3745 to start the battle.
Chances: Above half HP {58%, 37%, 5%}, Below half HP {88%, 5%, 5%}

I was surprised to see no Latios leads in the level 50 leaderboard! This thing is a monster. It tore through probably 80% of the enemies by itself. I chose it as lead because of how powerful calm mind stalling is normally, nevermind when your opponent is unlikely to be able to hit you with super effective attacks two times in a row.

:rs/Registeel:
Registeel @ Leftovers (Adamant)
Hidden Power Steel / Aerial Ace / Amnesia / Curse
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Def / 124 SpD / 4 Spe [71 Speed]
IVs: 11 SpA, 30 SpD
Notes: Obtained from the wonderful folks at the Bank of Hoenn.
Chances: Above half HP {38%, 31%, 31%}, Below half HP {70%, 15%, 15%}

I got the idea for this when I realized that amnesia is a defense move and curse is a support move. Registeel needs a LOT of time to get going and that's just fine in the drawn out slap fights that take place in the Palace. HP steel is for STAB and aerial ace lets me check evasion spam. Slow and steady wins the race I guess.

:rs/Latias:
Latias @ Petaya Berry (Modest)
Dragon Claw / Thunderbolt / Calm Mind / Flash
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe [158 Speed]
IVs: Perfect.
Notes: Obtained by chance using the R/S Battle Tower glitch.
Chances: Above half HP {34%, 45%, 20%}, Below half HP {34%, 60%, 6%}

I'm going to be honest: I've had a massive headache all day and didn't feel like breeding the third member I had planned (Hasty Salamence). Latias with calm mind and flash was an idea I had while building the team but didn't pursue for very long. But I had a modest Latias that was a few tms from filling this slot so I went for it. The concept is interesting but thankfully Latios and Registeel handled ~95% of the Pokémon we faced.

Edit: In my excitement I forgot to mention that these runs were accomplished on emulator in the level 50 brackets.
 
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Taking the honor of posting what submenceisop and I think is a pretty good attempt at a full-Pressure meme stall/setup, after some nights of discussion. It was a nice experience to finally build something acceptable for this archetype, and half the credit goes to submence of course.

If played patiently, I think it can go pretty far. It features my two favorite blue Pokemon:

View attachment 325625
Dusclops (F)
Impish Nature
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
- Torment
- Protect
- Thief

- Icy Wind

Dusclops leads with Protect usually to scout the set if there's no possibility of the opponent setting up. Electric-types, which the team is weak to, can't OHKO Dusclops even with a critical hit, so they usually have plenty of opportunity to get Icy Winded and/or Tormented. Thief is for Quick Claw, especially the physicals like Rhydon and Ursaring. Dusclops' ability to soak up PP right from the start by spamming Protect in between the "real moves" greatly helps if the strategy doesn't fully develop as wished.

The EVs bless Dusclops with these calcs. You can tweak what you want, but you simply can't guarantee everything. I chose to never die to Electric assaults, since these are the most threatening in my opinion:

170+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Dusclops on a critical hit: 122-144 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
255 Atk Metagross Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Dusclops on a critical hit: 125-148 (85 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
255+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Dusclops on a critical hit: 127-150 (86.3 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
255+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Dusclops on a critical hit: 122-144 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
255+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Dusclops on a critical hit: 124-147 (84.3 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
255+ Atk Snorlax Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Dusclops on a critical hit: 122-144 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


View attachment 325626
Articuno @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 220 HP / 60 SpD / 228 Spe
- Haze
- Substitute
- Protect

- Toxic

Articuno, a slightly improved Delibird, stalls what it can and prevents setup with Haze, which is a very nice, spammable move even if it does nothing because of its large base PP. Toxic is ideally never used, but is essential to remove Water Absorb threats from the field even if Suicune has setup already. It also gives Articuno a way to fight back, should something completely go the wrong way. The EVs let it outspeed even Jolteon-4 after Icy Wind and Articuno is pretty bulky on the special side:

255+ SpA Gengar Psychic vs. 220 HP / 60+ SpD Articuno: 41-49 (21.2 - 25.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
55+ SpA Alakazam Thunder Punch vs. 220 HP / 60+ SpD Articuno: 71-84 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Walrein Ice Beam vs. 220 HP / 60+ SpD Articuno: 38-45 (19.6 - 23.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Swampert Surf vs. 220 HP / 60+ SpD Articuno: 35-42 (18.1 - 21.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 255 SpA Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 220 HP / 60+ SpD Articuno: 28-34 (14.5 - 17.6%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery

Note that this Articuno is way different from the Articuno on Mono Ice since it's faster, has Leftovers, and doesn't need to wall physicals as well since Dusclops can Thief and/or Torment them (and stall way more PP on its own than Jynx, lol). It's less bulky, but provides a lot of utility and usually leaves the field pretty healthy to help Suicune later in the game if it gets stuck.


View attachment 325627
Suicune @ Salac Berry
Bold Nature
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 60 HP / 212 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
- Surf
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

- Rest

We all know how easily Suicune sets up, but now it's against unboosted Struggles. We consider the other dogs as well, but Suicune is the only one that has its counters wallable by Articuno and it's by far the easiest to setup against Struggles. The strongest unboosted Struggle in the game:

255 Atk Pure Power Medicham Struggle vs. 60 HP / 212+ Def Suicune: 24-29 (13.1 - 15.8%) -- possible 7HKO

It spams Calm Mind, Substitutes into Salac Berry and Rests up. After it wakes up, it finishes boosting up and Substitutes yet again only before Resting up. Finally, it Substitutes and sweeps after waking up, usually sweeping in the range of 50% to 60% of its health where it still survives plenty of moves even if its Substitute would be broken. Then it cleans with a net speed of 201, outspeeding even Jolteon-4 and preventing the Substitute break against many other fast threats such as Espeon, Aerodactyl, Gengar and Sceptile (against the latter, Suicune can just make another Sub if it's at high enough health). The Salac Berry also prevents the Substitute from getting broken by a faster Pokemon's crit Struggle when clicking Surf for the first time.

So yeah, the Water Absorbers and Double Team Water-type walls Suicune gets stuck against are all Toxic bait for Articuno.


Problems? A lot of things are a bit shaky, but worth mentioning are the following:
Water Absorb or bulky water OHKOers with quite some luck, the Rhydon crit 18%, and incredible Thunderbolt parahax from the start. Other than that, it's a matter of patience, careful play and good scouting/looking up sets to keep winning consistently.

In the end, I think this team is about as good as the Christmas Special Stantler + Suicune + Delibird team, with a better filler over Delibird such as Steelix.
So, I've been test running this team and there's actually more issues with it than we realized.

Additional List of problems
Icy wind accuracy against anything faster than Articuno.
Insane crit/para from electric types. Far more likely than we realized. Sometimes they even switch out if tormented.
No rest on Articuno means it's prone to being heavily worn down in a bad matchup/fears status. In particular Alakazam has too much PP that Articuno isn't likely to be healthy at all by the end.
QC fissure users with rock coverage (such as Donphan, DUGTRIO- CAN HAVE DOUBLE EDGE= dies before you set up)

EXPLOSION USERS= all deserve it's own tier
You can't set up safely on these and you are highly dependent on the next pokemon being a non threat.

Two practice scenarios I lost
Double Explosion+ QC Snorlax = talk about a counter team lol.
QC donphan wrecking my shit. Tried to steal the QC after the first protect, got nailed by fissure. Then Articuno got hit by QC rockslide and it was GG from there.

Two practice scenarios I barely won
Explosion Weezing into Ursaring (barely won this).
QC explosion Metagross, into Thunderbolt Gengar. Also barely won this.

Changes we made
Articuno is now timid with enough speed to outspeed up to Houndoom (insurance in case icy wind misses/dusclops gets haxxed)
Bulkier Suicune- still enough to outspeed everything BUT Jolteon 4, now lives crit Starmie t-bolt from full health.

https://pokepast.es/dea7045e22f5cf92

Initially, I had the belief that this team could reach 500 or 1000+ wins. I'm not so certain anymore. It's still a very solid team, as everyone knows how easily Suicune sets up and demolishes teams, particularly now that it has a speed boost to prevent revenge kills from faster pokemon like Starmie.
When it works, it really works, but the "unlikely scenarios" like QC explosion Metagross+ Gengar basically means an auto loss or a CLOSE win. These scenarios are far more likely than assumed and there's obviously that minor issue of water absorb users (particularly QC Lapras and QC Quagsire in situations where you couldn't steal the QC).
 
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So, I've been test running this team and there's actually more issues with it than we realized.

Additional List of problems
Icy wind accuracy against anything faster than Articuno.
Insane crit/para from electric types. Far more likely than we realized. Sometimes they even switch out if tormented.
No rest on Articuno means it's prone to being heavily worn down in a bad matchup/fears status. In particular Alakazam has too much PP that Articuno isn't likely to be healthy at all by the end.
QC fissure users with rock coverage (such as Donphan, DUGTRIO- CAN HAVE DOUBLE EDGE= dies before you set up)

EXPLOSION USERS= all deserve it's own tier
You can't set up safely on these and you are highly dependent on the next pokemon being a non threat.

Two practice scenarios I lost
Double Explosion+ QC Snorlax = talk about a counter team lol.
QC donphan wrecking my shit. Tried to steal the QC after the first protect, got nailed by fissure. Then Articuno got hit by QC rockslide and it was GG from there.

Two practice scenarios I barely won
Explosion Weezing into Ursaring (barely won this).
QC explosion Metagross, into Thunderbolt Gengar. Also barely won this.

Changes we made
Articuno is now timid with enough speed to outspeed up to Houndoom (insurance in case icy wind misses/dusclops gets haxxed)
Bulkier Suicune- still enough to outspeed everything BUT Jolteon 4, now lives crit Starmie t-bolt from full health.

https://pokepast.es/dea7045e22f5cf92

Initially, I had the belief that this team could reach 500 or 1000+ wins. I'm not so certain anymore. It's still a very solid team, as everyone knows how easily Suicune sets up and demolishes teams, particularly now that it has a speed boost to prevent revenge kills from faster pokemon like Starmie.
When it works, it really works, but the "unlikely scenarios" like QC explosion Metagross+ Gengar basically means an auto loss or a CLOSE win. These scenarios are far more likely than assumed and there's obviously that minor issue of water absorb users (particularly QC Lapras and QC Whiscash in situations where you couldn't steal the QC).
This summarizes well the "modern" counters to the improved team. In my personal test streaks I must have been lucky enough to avoid these scenarios. The strategy against any Double-Edge is to combine a Torment with well-timed Protects and possible Dusclops switch-ins to prevent the Pokemon from succumbing to recoil damage.

Usually when I play the team, I try to stall the OHKO'ers that tend to use Ground-moves on Dusclops, like Donphan, by switching to Articuno and use Protect in between before switching again. All of this before using Thief, if you use Thief at all. This way Dusclops only has to eat Rock Slides instead of STAB Earthquakes or "STAB Fissures lol". I think Thief is more of the essence against non-OHKO Quick Clawers, such as Metagross, Hariyama, Ursaring, etc. And of course the Sheer Colders, no arguing about that.

The greatest threat is Explosion without a doubt! I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed too, because I thought Dusclops would protect us against them with some smart play/switching, but everything seems a little too risky indeed.
 
Hi everyone! I started playing Emerald again recently, so I popped into this thread to see if my Battle Factory record still stands, only to find that it was removed! Then I realized I had uploaded the proof pics on my personal website which I've since shut down. It's actually nice that the mods are so diligent here! I've reuploaded the photos on Google Drive, so here's a copy of my original post with updated proof links!



I'd like to share my new record of 84 wins in the Battle Factory Open Level Singles!
Took me all day yesterday to get this done!
Proof

Some Highlights:
- In one of the last rounds I got a starting lineup with two Latios sets. One was shiny and one was normal! Blew my mind! Ended up going with the normal one because they were identical except for the shiny one having dragon claw and the normal one having psychic. It wouldn't let me use both.
- Also got two venusaurs in an earlier starting lineup.
- "Your opponent specializes in the use of the water type!" then the game proceeds to give me 4 fire type pokemon in the starting draft. Still managed to win.
- Kangaskhan's focus band activating 4 times in a row cost me a Latios and almost killed my Suicune.
- Beating Noland 4 times in 1 run!

Strategy:
- There are certain pokemon that I consider high tier and am always looking to get my hands on. In no particular order: Salamence, Latios, Gengar, Suicune, Metagross, Blissey, Snorlax, Heracross, Starmie, Slaking, Zapdos.
- I won't sacrifice the team's type synergy just to get a high tier pokemon. It's especially important that the team can't be swept by any one attack type, but also important to have a good diversity of attacking moves.
- I prefer to have a fast sweeper in the first position, with two bulkier boosting pokemon in back, but obviously this is a bit flexible.
- I try to aim for a team with this sort of type layout: Dragon or Electric, Normal or Steel, Water.
- I didn't use a lookup table for the different sets, since I was playing on the go, but I have a general idea of what the good and bad sets are from playing so much. (I have over 2000 BP) There are terrible sets on some of the high tier pokemon. The worst sets are ones with 1 or no attacking moves, (Dragonite with only Hyper Beam? REALLY???) and sets which try to mess you up by attacking from the special side instead of from the physical side or vice versa. (Physical gengar, special aerodactyl, etc.) Although I did have a good run with special Salamence.
- The most important part of my strategy is that I design the starting team with an idea of what kind of pokemon I will be looking to swap in later. If you don't plan it out from the beginning, you can easily find yourself in a situation where you see a high tier pokemon, but can't take it without compromising your team's integrity. The factory tends to immediately punish such swaps.

Loss:
I lost in the first battle after selecting a new set of pokemon. The game legit stacked things against me. The only good sets I was offered were a Double Team Toxic Focus Punch Substitute Registeel (with leftovers!) and a Quick Claw Rock Slide Brick Break Tyranitar (with no EQ, DD, or recovery) so I grabbed those and led with a Fearow. Yes a FEAROW. Just so I could prevent a fighting type sweep and maybe get some chip damage to make the other teammate's jobs easier. The other options that I remember are a Hypno with a twistedspoon and no psychic STAB (facepalm) and a Nidoqueen which would have been equally wrecked by any EQ user. I remember thinking: "I'll be fine if I can make it through the first round without seeing Metagross. BAM. First battle leads with a Metagross. I tried in vain to afflict a status on it using Fearow's Tri Attack, then I got a double team up on Registeel hoping for some hax (was instead 2HKOd by EQ), then it KOd Tyranitar with Brick Break. Ah well. It was a good run anyway.

Thanks for reading! I can't believe there aren't any higher Factory streaks on here yet! Surely someone has gotten farther? I would love to make it to 100 wins just to show that it's possible. Maybe next time.
 
Hello again. Sadly my Battle Pike streak ends at 601 wins. I can't stretch how unlucky I have been in my last run. Each and every time I asked the girl about the room he responded with the: A trainer... Quote and each and every time I entered a room I faced a strong battle or a double battle. Not once, not twice but 6 times in a row!!! If my maths are correct this is (2/5)^6 = 0.004096. The losing battle was also pure @#$&. I had my Latios taken down and entered the battle with Metagross. He led with Moltres so I swapped to Blissey. His Moltres was a double team/Rest Moltres. I did managed to take it down after stalling his Fire blasts with Blissey (after a lot of misses) with 2 shadow balls from Metagross. His next Pokemon was a Crobat which I also took down with Metagross with 2 SB but left my Metagross at around 40%. Then he used Zapdos. I switched to Blissey to avoid being KOed with TBolt. He used TBolt and did little damage to Blissey. The he Drilled pecked...crit! And I was around 35%. Then he used Drilled peck again..crit!!!!!!! And since he outsped Metagross he won. This is so tilting really. I would have accepted a Freeze into a double battle into a loss. But winning 5 battles in a row, manage to turn a 2vs3 into a winning one to lose with 2 crits in a row this is such a middle finger.

I think will take a break from Pike after this...

IMG_20210408_005309.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone! I started playing Emerald again recently, so I popped into this thread to see if my Battle Factory record still stands, only to find that it was removed! Then I realized I had uploaded the proof pics on my personal website which I've since shut down. It's actually nice that the mods are so diligent here! I've reuploaded the photos on Google Drive, so here's a copy of my original post with updated proof links!



I'd like to share my new record of 84 wins in the Battle Factory Open Level Singles!
Took me all day yesterday to get this done!
Proof

Some Highlights:
- In one of the last rounds I got a starting lineup with two Latios sets. One was shiny and one was normal! Blew my mind! Ended up going with the normal one because they were identical except for the shiny one having dragon claw and the normal one having psychic. It wouldn't let me use both.
- Also got two venusaurs in an earlier starting lineup.
- "Your opponent specializes in the use of the water type!" then the game proceeds to give me 4 fire type pokemon in the starting draft. Still managed to win.
- Kangaskhan's focus band activating 4 times in a row cost me a Latios and almost killed my Suicune.
- Beating Noland 4 times in 1 run!

Strategy:
- There are certain pokemon that I consider high tier and am always looking to get my hands on. In no particular order: Salamence, Latios, Gengar, Suicune, Metagross, Blissey, Snorlax, Heracross, Starmie, Slaking, Zapdos.
- I won't sacrifice the team's type synergy just to get a high tier pokemon. It's especially important that the team can't be swept by any one attack type, but also important to have a good diversity of attacking moves.
- I prefer to have a fast sweeper in the first position, with two bulkier boosting pokemon in back, but obviously this is a bit flexible.
- I try to aim for a team with this sort of type layout: Dragon or Electric, Normal or Steel, Water.
- I didn't use a lookup table for the different sets, since I was playing on the go, but I have a general idea of what the good and bad sets are from playing so much. (I have over 2000 BP) There are terrible sets on some of the high tier pokemon. The worst sets are ones with 1 or no attacking moves, (Dragonite with only Hyper Beam? REALLY???) and sets which try to mess you up by attacking from the special side instead of from the physical side or vice versa. (Physical gengar, special aerodactyl, etc.) Although I did have a good run with special Salamence.
- The most important part of my strategy is that I design the starting team with an idea of what kind of pokemon I will be looking to swap in later. If you don't plan it out from the beginning, you can easily find yourself in a situation where you see a high tier pokemon, but can't take it without compromising your team's integrity. The factory tends to immediately punish such swaps.

Loss:
I lost in the first battle after selecting a new set of pokemon. The game legit stacked things against me. The only good sets I was offered were a Double Team Toxic Focus Punch Substitute Registeel (with leftovers!) and a Quick Claw Rock Slide Brick Break Tyranitar (with no EQ, DD, or recovery) so I grabbed those and led with a Fearow. Yes a FEAROW. Just so I could prevent a fighting type sweep and maybe get some chip damage to make the other teammate's jobs easier. The other options that I remember are a Hypno with a twistedspoon and no psychic STAB (facepalm) and a Nidoqueen which would have been equally wrecked by any EQ user. I remember thinking: "I'll be fine if I can make it through the first round without seeing Metagross. BAM. First battle leads with a Metagross. I tried in vain to afflict a status on it using Fearow's Tri Attack, then I got a double team up on Registeel hoping for some hax (was instead 2HKOd by EQ), then it KOd Tyranitar with Brick Break. Ah well. It was a good run anyway.

Thanks for reading! I can't believe there aren't any higher Factory streaks on here yet! Surely someone has gotten farther? I would love to make it to 100 wins just to show that it's possible. Maybe next time.
Your post being removed also could have something to do with your post looking as if RNG manipulation was used to influence starting picks/first opponent. Did you? You have previously posted about knowing how to manipulate Factory starting picks, albeit months after the 84 streak post. It would be helpful to see some proof (or more details) about your starting draft and swap history. The fact that you don't use a lookup table or damage calculator seemed odd as well since scouting sets is very hard without it. I also don't think the "strategy" section of your post was very concrete either. For instance, I would have expected a more thorough teambuilding strategy or longer list of "high tier pokemon". I also found it odd that you took a Registeel with Toxic, and didn't reconize that it loses to poison and steel types, making Nidoqueen (barring set 1) a great partner. I was hoping to see some sort of streak in level 50 to inspire confidence in your ability, but alas there's only the one short attempt.

None of this is inherently damning. The fact that your Round 13 starting picks aren't ideal and that you had over 30 swaps points to it being a legit streak. Though you could have just misclicked on the wrong seed for an ideal team.

So I'm torn. I'd love to hear what you have to say. I'm sure you don't have any evidence on hand from years ago or else you would have included it in the original post. You mentioned being away for awhile, are you aware of Kommo-o's moderator post about removing RNG manipulated streaks from the factory leaderboard?
 
Your post being removed also could have something to do with your post looking as if RNG manipulation was used to influence starting picks/first opponent. Did you? You have previously posted about knowing how to manipulate Factory starting picks, albeit months after the 84 streak post. It would be helpful to see some proof (or more details) about your starting draft and swap history. The fact that you don't use a lookup table or damage calculator seemed odd as well since scouting sets is very hard without it. I also don't think the "strategy" section of your post was very concrete either. For instance, I would have expected a more thorough teambuilding strategy or longer list of "high tier pokemon". I also found it odd that you took a Registeel with Toxic, and didn't reconize that it loses to poison and steel types, making Nidoqueen (barring set 1) a great partner. I was hoping to see some sort of streak in level 50 to inspire confidence in your ability, but alas there's only the one short attempt.

None of this is inherently damning. The fact that your Round 13 starting picks aren't ideal and that you had over 30 swaps points to it being a legit streak. Though you could have just misclicked on the wrong seed for an ideal team.

So I'm torn. I'd love to hear what you have to say. I'm sure you don't have any evidence on hand from years ago or else you would have included it in the original post. You mentioned being away for awhile, are you aware of Kommo-o's moderator post about removing RNG manipulated streaks from the factory leaderboard?
Ah, I wasn't aware of Kommo-o's post about removing RNG streaks. I just assumed it was an issue with the proof. I can certainly understand all of the points you've made, and I'll try my best to address them, though as you've said there's not much I can do without a recording of the streak. :/

I didn't use any RNG manipulation in the run. My interest in RNG manipulation for factory runs started after I completed that run, as I figured it would be the most likely way to reach a 100 win streak, which was my ultimate goal. I was working on a program for calculating the initial pokemon for factory runs, but lost interest before finishing it. (I got frustrated implementing the pokemon search and set search features, and it's difficult to know with 100 percent certainty that the program is working properly, among other things) I haven't done a single factory run with RNG manipulated picks, only a couple of test runs of the first round while trying to see if the program worked. (I couldn't tell)

The reason I don't use lookup tables or calculators is because I typically play on a Gameboy Micro at work. (best covert game system ever!) With the run I posted I had played all day at work and then came home to finish up the run on the Gameboy Player because I knew it was something special. You can see the gameboy player frame in the screenshots. I used to use a pad and keep track of things, but it just made me hate playing, so I've decided to just play naturally and hope I get lucky. This run was VERY lucky. I remember almost losing several times, but still somehow pulling it out through sheer blind luck. I mentioned a couple such moments in the original post. I wrote that post the night I finished the streak and tried to recall everything I could, then I looked it over and posted it the next day. I know Factory streaks are difficult to verify, that's why I tried to recall as many details as I could. At the time of my record streak I had been averaging about one long factory streak a day, and I've beaten Noland Gold several times. Most streaks make it to Noland Silver, but many end shortly afterward.

I really hate level 50 because of the pitifully weak pokemon in the first few rounds, and the sudden jump in difficulty once the game starts pulling from the actual good pokemon list almost always kills me. I also have a rule of thumb for level 100, which is that stats that are around 300+ are considered "good". I have a pretty good understanding of the level 100 speed tiers as well from my Tower and Palace streaks, while level 50 is like the wild west to me.

I didn't really intend for my "high tier" list to be exhaustive, just illustrative of my general strategy. In my losing team, I probably figured that Tyranitar could handle poison types with Rock Slide and Steels with Brick Break. (Though Gengar is really the only poison type that scares me, especially when running a Registeel) That's precisely why enemy Metagross was the worst case scenario, as it resists both of TTar and Registeel's attacks and could KO both Registeel and Tyranitar with EQ or Brick Break (And also Tyranitar with Meteor Mash) Even Skarmory would have been easy to deal with as it lacks powerful attacking moves and could be worn away. I almost never pick Nidoqueen or Nidoking in the factory because their sets are mostly garbage and they're weak to too many common powerful attacks. Surf, Ice Beam, EQ, Psychic...

I think that's all of the explanation I can muster for tonight, but I'd be happy to talk about it more, as this 84 Factory streak is my proudest achievement in Pokemon Emerald. I also have a 198 streak in Battle Tower Open Level Singles that I never posted because someone else posted a much more optimized version of my team, which was Alakazam Trickband to Pressure Stall Raikou to Dragon Dance Tyranitar. (Whoever it was replaced the Raikou with a Baton Pass Zapdos, which I'm still kinda salty about because there's no practical way to get a Baton Pass Zapdos with perfect IVs, so they RNGed one in an emulator, which is basically cheating) Anyway, I also have a 53 streak in the palace, if that's any indication of my skill level and blind luck lol.
 
Ah, I wasn't aware of Kommo-o's post about removing RNG streaks. I just assumed it was an issue with the proof. I can certainly understand all of the points you've made, and I'll try my best to address them, though as you've said there's not much I can do without a recording of the streak. :/

I didn't use any RNG manipulation in the run. My interest in RNG manipulation for factory runs started after I completed that run, as I figured it would be the most likely way to reach a 100 win streak, which was my ultimate goal. I was working on a program for calculating the initial pokemon for factory runs, but lost interest before finishing it. (I got frustrated implementing the pokemon search and set search features, and it's difficult to know with 100 percent certainty that the program is working properly, among other things) I haven't done a single factory run with RNG manipulated picks, only a couple of test runs of the first round while trying to see if the program worked. (I couldn't tell)

The reason I don't use lookup tables or calculators is because I typically play on a Gameboy Micro at work. (best covert game system ever!) With the run I posted I had played all day at work and then came home to finish up the run on the Gameboy Player because I knew it was something special. You can see the gameboy player frame in the screenshots. I used to use a pad and keep track of things, but it just made me hate playing, so I've decided to just play naturally and hope I get lucky. This run was VERY lucky. I remember almost losing several times, but still somehow pulling it out through sheer blind luck. I mentioned a couple such moments in the original post. I wrote that post the night I finished the streak and tried to recall everything I could, then I looked it over and posted it the next day. I know Factory streaks are difficult to verify, that's why I tried to recall as many details as I could. At the time of my record streak I had been averaging about one long factory streak a day, and I've beaten Noland Gold several times. Most streaks make it to Noland Silver, but many end shortly afterward.

I really hate level 50 because of the pitifully weak pokemon in the first few rounds, and the sudden jump in difficulty once the game starts pulling from the actual good pokemon list almost always kills me. I also have a rule of thumb for level 100, which is that stats that are around 300+ are considered "good". I have a pretty good understanding of the level 100 speed tiers as well from my Tower and Palace streaks, while level 50 is like the wild west to me.

I didn't really intend for my "high tier" list to be exhaustive, just illustrative of my general strategy. In my losing team, I probably figured that Tyranitar could handle poison types with Rock Slide and Steels with Brick Break. (Though Gengar is really the only poison type that scares me, especially when running a Registeel) That's precisely why enemy Metagross was the worst case scenario, as it resists both of TTar and Registeel's attacks and could KO both Registeel and Tyranitar with EQ or Brick Break (And also Tyranitar with Meteor Mash) Even Skarmory would have been easy to deal with as it lacks powerful attacking moves and could be worn away. I almost never pick Nidoqueen or Nidoking in the factory because their sets are mostly garbage and they're weak to too many common powerful attacks. Surf, Ice Beam, EQ, Psychic...

I think that's all of the explanation I can muster for tonight, but I'd be happy to talk about it more, as this 84 Factory streak is my proudest achievement in Pokemon Emerald. I also have a 198 streak in Battle Tower Open Level Singles that I never posted because someone else posted a much more optimized version of my team, which was Alakazam Trickband to Pressure Stall Raikou to Dragon Dance Tyranitar. (Whoever it was replaced the Raikou with a Baton Pass Zapdos, which I'm still kinda salty about because there's no practical way to get a Baton Pass Zapdos with perfect IVs, so they RNGed one in an emulator, which is basically cheating) Anyway, I also have a 53 streak in the palace, if that's any indication of my skill level and blind luck lol.
Haha that Zapdos guy was me and yeah, that Zapdos is pretty hard to get legitimately. Meanwhile, that team is really outdated and certainly not one of the better Trick teams available anymore. All of Ninetales GrudgeTrick, Grumpig+Dugtrio, Zam/Grumpig+Skarmory and even Grumpig + 2 sweepers such as Gyarados and Registeel, are far better.
 
Ah, I wasn't aware of Kommo-o's post about removing RNG streaks. I just assumed it was an issue with the proof. I can certainly understand all of the points you've made, and I'll try my best to address them, though as you've said there's not much I can do without a recording of the streak. :/

I didn't use any RNG manipulation in the run. My interest in RNG manipulation for factory runs started after I completed that run, as I figured it would be the most likely way to reach a 100 win streak, which was my ultimate goal. I was working on a program for calculating the initial pokemon for factory runs, but lost interest before finishing it. (I got frustrated implementing the pokemon search and set search features, and it's difficult to know with 100 percent certainty that the program is working properly, among other things) I haven't done a single factory run with RNG manipulated picks, only a couple of test runs of the first round while trying to see if the program worked. (I couldn't tell)
I think my rng manipulated factory run was what inspired the ban once ownership of the thread switched to Kommo-o. IMO Zsy6's run is legit.
  • 12 rounds and 38 swaps averages to a little over 2 swaps a round. As you can see in my rng'd run, getting to influence your starting picks brings the average way down. 38 actually seems to be above-average compared to other high level runs.
  • It was done on retail. My run was also on retail and it's hard to be consistent. One of the biggest red flags would be an emulator run with a small number of swaps since the tools for frame-perfect inputs are built into most emulators.
  • They seem to have a good amount of game sense. The factory tests that more than anything else.
The key reasoning behind the ban (that I 100% agree with) is that rng manipulation fundamentally changes the dynamic of the factory. You don't need game sense or swapping so it simply isn't fair to put manipulated runs on a leaderboard with legit runs.

PS - Zsy6 you might like the details I shared in this follow-up post for my rng'd run because it backs up your theory. Once you get to 49+ wins the starting picks are drawn from the same pool each time. If you found a good set of frames you could very easily blow past 100. It wouldn't be the battle factory anymore but it would make for a crazy tool-assisted streak.
 
Ah, I wasn't aware of Kommo-o's post about removing RNG streaks. I just assumed it was an issue with the proof. I can certainly understand all of the points you've made, and I'll try my best to address them, though as you've said there's not much I can do without a recording of the streak. :/

I didn't use any RNG manipulation in the run. My interest in RNG manipulation for factory runs started after I completed that run, as I figured it would be the most likely way to reach a 100 win streak, which was my ultimate goal. I was working on a program for calculating the initial pokemon for factory runs, but lost interest before finishing it. (I got frustrated implementing the pokemon search and set search features, and it's difficult to know with 100 percent certainty that the program is working properly, among other things) I haven't done a single factory run with RNG manipulated picks, only a couple of test runs of the first round while trying to see if the program worked. (I couldn't tell)

The reason I don't use lookup tables or calculators is because I typically play on a Gameboy Micro at work. (best covert game system ever!) With the run I posted I had played all day at work and then came home to finish up the run on the Gameboy Player because I knew it was something special. You can see the gameboy player frame in the screenshots. I used to use a pad and keep track of things, but it just made me hate playing, so I've decided to just play naturally and hope I get lucky. This run was VERY lucky. I remember almost losing several times, but still somehow pulling it out through sheer blind luck. I mentioned a couple such moments in the original post. I wrote that post the night I finished the streak and tried to recall everything I could, then I looked it over and posted it the next day. I know Factory streaks are difficult to verify, that's why I tried to recall as many details as I could. At the time of my record streak I had been averaging about one long factory streak a day, and I've beaten Noland Gold several times. Most streaks make it to Noland Silver, but many end shortly afterward.

I really hate level 50 because of the pitifully weak pokemon in the first few rounds, and the sudden jump in difficulty once the game starts pulling from the actual good pokemon list almost always kills me. I also have a rule of thumb for level 100, which is that stats that are around 300+ are considered "good". I have a pretty good understanding of the level 100 speed tiers as well from my Tower and Palace streaks, while level 50 is like the wild west to me.

I didn't really intend for my "high tier" list to be exhaustive, just illustrative of my general strategy. In my losing team, I probably figured that Tyranitar could handle poison types with Rock Slide and Steels with Brick Break. (Though Gengar is really the only poison type that scares me, especially when running a Registeel) That's precisely why enemy Metagross was the worst case scenario, as it resists both of TTar and Registeel's attacks and could KO both Registeel and Tyranitar with EQ or Brick Break (And also Tyranitar with Meteor Mash) Even Skarmory would have been easy to deal with as it lacks powerful attacking moves and could be worn away. I almost never pick Nidoqueen or Nidoking in the factory because their sets are mostly garbage and they're weak to too many common powerful attacks. Surf, Ice Beam, EQ, Psychic...

I think that's all of the explanation I can muster for tonight, but I'd be happy to talk about it more, as this 84 Factory streak is my proudest achievement in Pokemon Emerald. I also have a 198 streak in Battle Tower Open Level Singles that I never posted because someone else posted a much more optimized version of my team, which was Alakazam Trickband to Pressure Stall Raikou to Dragon Dance Tyranitar. (Whoever it was replaced the Raikou with a Baton Pass Zapdos, which I'm still kinda salty about because there's no practical way to get a Baton Pass Zapdos with perfect IVs, so they RNGed one in an emulator, which is basically cheating) Anyway, I also have a 53 streak in the palace, if that's any indication of my skill level and blind luck lol.
Hey there, just to avoid any confusion or any misclarification, the main reason why your streak was removed was because the proof pictures of your streak were no longer available and the site was taken down. While I did had my doubts on whether you actually RNG abused this streak as JoebertIII pointed out, I don't really have evidence of this although it would've been normal to raise some suspicion considering that you later expressed interest on making a program that would allow you to RNG abuse Factory. When Golden Blissey owned the thread, there was no rule regarding RNG'd streaks so I can't blame you for anything or think there was any deceitful intention on it. Once I got ownership, I did made a post explaining why I was removing RNG'd streaks from the leaderboard since I felt they don't really deserve to share records with those who were not RNG abused.

Since you uploaded the pictures again and considering what Huff_J7 posted about elevations on Factory, I'll put up your streak again Zsy6. It will take a while for me to update the thread since I had been busy with irl stuff as of lately.
 
I will never complain about RNG in the Battle Frontier again.

After years of trying on and off, I finally got my gold symbol in the Emerald Factory. Noland's final pokemon was Dewgong3, who missed all ten of its OHKO moves against my Milotic3 while I failed to rack up damage with Surf/Blizzard. Watching it struggle to death while Milo recovered from leftovers might just be the most satisfying thing I've ever witnessed. Truly a fitting end to my least favorite facility.

For anyone else trying to get the gold symbol, I found Lvl 50 to be the way to go. In Rounds 5+ on Open Level, pokemon of any variant can appear, whereas in Lvl 50 you'll always know for certain which set you're facing through the second Noland fight. Even if the earlier rounds are trash on Lvl 50, having that extra certainty in the later rounds totally pays of imo.
 
Hey Actaeon, I'd love it if you could elaborate on what the "state of the art" for Trick teams is. My particular interest is "teams that require the least amount of thought" and that's why I went with the Alakazam - Raikou - Tyranitar combo. Because I'm usually out when I play, I don't really want to have to look up sets constantly. I would think that most other teams would require a bit more consideration to use, since they'd be lacking the speed advantage of Alakazam and Raikou, but I'd love to be surprised!
 
Thanks for your consideration Kommo-o ! If I get another long streak going I'll try to document it better. I think Huff_J7 is right that the swap number is a pretty solid indicator of not RNGing the run. The 78 run done by JoebertIII only had 28 swaps, which is quite a bit behind my 38 swaps at a streak of 84, as I only completed 6 more battles but had 10 more swaps. You'd have to be pitifully bad at RNGing to still swap that much. My strategy is to build an ideal team and then stick with it for the rest of the round, so some rounds the starting lineup is great and I only swap maybe once, while in other rounds I swap right up to the end trying to fill in the team's weaknesses. In any case, thank you again for the effort you put into diligently managing this thread!
 
Hey Actaeon, I'd love it if you could elaborate on what the "state of the art" for Trick teams is. My particular interest is "teams that require the least amount of thought" and that's why I went with the Alakazam - Raikou - Tyranitar combo. Because I'm usually out when I play, I don't really want to have to look up sets constantly. I would think that most other teams would require a bit more consideration to use, since they'd be lacking the speed advantage of Alakazam and Raikou, but I'd love to be surprised!
Allright, here are a couple of teams that satisfy the criterium of not having to look up sets a lot, especially if you get used to what the team finds hard and easier to handle. They might not be the most dependable, but they're still good for 200+ IMO, probably more if you get lucky.

Stantler @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Sand-Attack
- Thief
- Skill Swap

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 140 HP / 156 Def / 212 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Protect
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Surf

Delibird @ Salac Berry
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Endure
- Icy Wind
- Thief
- Toxic
What can I say? If you don't use Delibird in the last spot you deserve to lose. It's not even bad tbh, and saved me numerous times against lead Jolteon/Espeon/Sceptile critting through Stantler, stealing Quick Claws and Toxicing DT Suicunes and Ludicolos. Oh yeah Vital Spirit is funny against Hypnosis/Dream Eater sets.

Grumpig (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 212 HP / 204 Def / 92 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Trick
- Skill Swap
- Torment
- Icy Wind

Mawile (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 52 SpD / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Torment
- Tickle
- Mud-Slap

Salamence (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 236 Def / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
Strong and extremely funny with Mawile being the one that solves the Double-Edge problem to an extent. Harder to use because of Torment. Gyarados is a very worthy replacement for Salamence; reduces hax against stuff like QC Whiscash or Focus Band Blastoise while sweeping.

Still really solid

Grumpig (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 16 SpD / 92 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Trick
- Skill Swap
- Torment
- Icy Wind

Dugtrio (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Def / 36 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
IVs: 5 HP, make sure you get exactly 179 HP using extra EVs if needed (take out of SpD)
- Protect
- Substitute
- Charm
- Fissure

Latias (F) @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 176 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Claw
Enjoy setting up against really strong Struggles, turning Tyranitar's Sand Stream against it, and OHKOing Double Team Leftovers Registeel with Fissure if you get stuck. Loads of fun. The main reason for Dugtrio is to prevent Double-Edgers from KO'ing themselves too soon with recoil damage.

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Torment
- Roar
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 12 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Curse
- Substitute
- Moonlight
- Baton Pass (No PP Ups)

Aerodactyl @ White Herb
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Aerial Ace
- Ancientpower
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
Intimidate usually makes Umbreon unbreakable for free, especially combined with Torment. Roar out problems and HP[Flying] Fighters, and you should be fine. The recipient is variable. Agility/DE/BB/HPGhost Hitmonchan gets special mention because it literally OHKOs everything at +6 Attack. Aero doesn't need Agility though, so it can usually keep its Substitute. No Hidden Power is used because AA is better with this coverage. HP[Rock] would lower Speed.

Will add some more tonight, including Dugtrio Trick and some others.
 
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Thanks for your consideration Kommo-o ! If I get another long streak going I'll try to document it better. I think Huff_J7 is right that the swap number is a pretty solid indicator of not RNGing the run. The 78 run done by JoebertIII only had 28 swaps, which is quite a bit behind my 38 swaps at a streak of 84, as I only completed 6 more battles but had 10 more swaps. You'd have to be pitifully bad at RNGing to still swap that much. My strategy is to build an ideal team and then stick with it for the rest of the round, so some rounds the starting lineup is great and I only swap maybe once, while in other rounds I swap right up to the end trying to fill in the team's weaknesses. In any case, thank you again for the effort you put into diligently managing this thread!
No worries! All I'm going to ask you is if you can update your original post with the new streak pictures you linked so I can re-add it to the leaderboard. Please let me know when you're done and I'll try to add it whenever I have a chance.
 
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