I agree with this statement and initially posted a list of overall tiering, probably the better option would be to divide into 2 different lists (because imo cosidering availability may be good for people who starts to approach to the Tower or"just" wants to get Gold, while if someone wants to teambuild competitively and try long streaks, he has to consider that he needs an extended pool from other games)
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Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Kommo-o
- Start date
Both of you might be right on here. I guess I just didn't wanted to "force" people on buying more hardware for this, but I can see where you're coming from. I'll edit the tierlist taking the availability factor away. Thanks!
swampert s to a, its not dominating like the others
latias a to s, latios' presence doesnt detract from latias' ability
vaporeon a-? justify please
tauros could merit a rise to a-, second only to slaking in that niche
medicham seems more of a b than a b+
add hitmonlee maybe? solid endrevver
magneton is decent at the lower levels, resists are useful
dragonite should be included somewhere, probably a tier or two below flygon
charizard could be included at the lower levels
staller ludicolo?
shedinja?
jynx might have a niche in the lower levels, slowbro too maybe, maybe machamp, maybe dodrio
latias a to s, latios' presence doesnt detract from latias' ability
vaporeon a-? justify please
tauros could merit a rise to a-, second only to slaking in that niche
medicham seems more of a b than a b+
add hitmonlee maybe? solid endrevver
magneton is decent at the lower levels, resists are useful
dragonite should be included somewhere, probably a tier or two below flygon
charizard could be included at the lower levels
staller ludicolo?
shedinja?
jynx might have a niche in the lower levels, slowbro too maybe, maybe machamp, maybe dodrio
| Before tiering, I think it's important to say that the team I'm using right now (and Kommo-o 's one has similar potential) will probably change the way to challenge the Tower, to the point (I hope) there will be no differences between these streaks and newer gen ones (in term of numbers). These new approach will completely change tiering imho, to the point that some Pokemons good by theirselves will find no niche at all: in fact I'm running just one attacking move in my whole team, and another team I will use soon has no damaging move at all (outside of one Seismic Toss user). Btw this is a sketch of my overall tiering for standard builds: S+
Blissey (if someone else will be S+, then she will be on another higher rank) S Latios A+ Suicune Gengar Metagross A Slaking Latias Steelix Salamence Milotic A- Flygon Tauros Snorlax Registeel Starmie Raikou B+ Zapdos Swampert Skarmory Heracross Gyarados Dusclops B Alakazam Aerodactyl Gardevoir Vaporeon Medicham Regice Jolteon Porygon2 Sceptile B- Blaziken Espeon Wobbuffet Moltres Scizor Dodrio Ninjask Crobat C Weezing Smeargle Umbreon Meganium Regirock Shedinja |
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I can agree to Swampert bieng A. Will update that.
I find quite troublesome to actually recommend Latias considering that while Sub CM is a good set, it has a lot of roadblocks where the lower SpA doesn't allows it to sweep like a SubCM setter should do. It can't beat Blissey 3/4 one on one since it can also compete on CM boosts and Ice Beam/Blizzard at the same level is still strong enough to even break a 252 HP / 0 SpD Sub. Also, it needs a considerable SpA investment to 2HKO stuff that are too dangerous like Armaldo 3 or Marowak and Latias is at risk of losing to these unless you use a more offensive set (which is outclassed by Latios). I don't consider myself a big fan (maybe I am just spoiled by how effective Sub CM Suicune / Sub Minimize Blissey are) but probably Adedede can provide more insight on this since he's also using Sub CM Latias on his current team.
I do have a good experience using Vaporeon / Steelix since both are incredibly good on swap stalling Water / Electric coverage. Vaporeon has the added benefit of being immune to Water and resistant to Ice which is something that Steelix attracts where it can switch with impunity. Also, being one of the most usable Wish passers, it makes really good not only on stalling but also providing support to other teammates. Since Steelix can't recover HP outside Rest, Wish benefits him allowing it to recover the lost health on the process. I think Vaporeon has under-explored potential where it can have a distinguishable niche from Milotic.
I 100% agree on this. Tauros is really good on Signles and Doubles.
I think Medicham is pretty solid on Dome / Arena / Pyramid when you take into account how hard it hits. I can agree to this though since Heracross is kind of a better alternative and Machamp is equally passable as a Guts user.
Can you please provide me with the set you've been working on this? Was this for Singles or Doubles? What facilities do you believe where it can be used effectively?
Definitely! Please let me know where do you think it deserves to be since the resistances are quite useful.
Can't remember if I explained this here or anywhere else, but Dragonite is a really inferior option. It finds itself on a limbo where it is simply outclassed by Salamence or Latios where it can't really distinguish itself on a niche. While it has nice coverage options from the special side, Latios is simply stronger, faster and it can boost its SpA and SpD without the nasty x4 weakness. On the other hand, Salamence is also faster and it compensates its bulk with Intimidate allowing it to switch back and forth and stall swap EdgeQuake coverage with a Steel type. I initially thought of a bulkier set using the XD GoD Dragonite with Heal Bell, but considering how incredibly limited the spreads are for this Pokemon, I can't really say it's worth the trouble of using one in Gen III.
Definitely agree here! Mind sharing some sets for Charizard just for insight? :D
>.>
Oh god, how could I actually forgot about the God of Dome and Arena. Definitely adding, let me know which rank would you think it should be!
Haven't explored Jynx yet, but I'll take your word on that. I have my doubts on sans-Regenrator Slowbro but it could work. Machamp and Dodrio definitely deserve a mention too! Please let me know if you can share more thoughts on this and thanks for your contribution :D.
Single exclusively. Been a while but iirc it was Endure, Reversal, Earthquake, and filler, either Rock Slide or Double-Edge (not as insane as it sounds), or a second fighting spam with Limber. It's solid in the Dome/Pike/Pyramid and could be usable in the Tower
I leave the specific tiering to y'all but near the bottom, elec stab and resists are good but not "recommended" good.
Also, just remembered Venusaur, that needs to be included. Sleep Powder / Leech Seed / Sludge Bomb / Earthquake is good
I agree that its outclassed but it should still be represented on the tier list
DrumSalac is the only emminently usable one with three of Sub / Fire Blast / EQ / Rock Slide, though a Sunny Day one with HP Grass could be usable
could see this being usable in tower
cant speak to this one
Lovely Kiss / Ice Beam / Psychic / Sub is just a pretty solid set overall despite the frailty, its probably usable. Slowbro wouldn't be good but again probably usable with a bulky attacking set, Psychic / Ice Beam / Fire Blast / Slack Off or Surf or Earthquake
Texas Cloverleaf Vaporeon is a good choice for the incredible value of Haze (and Vapo is probably the bulkiest user, also with access to Wish to help other allies -it synergizes well with Steelix that has to rely on Rest for recovery-)
Unfortunately Slowbro doesn't learn Slack Off in gen3 -it's a signature move of Slaking, completely useless- (otherwise Bro would be a top pick imho)
Latias is very good but Latios simply outclasses her outside of certain (stall/combo) teams that specificly need the better defensive calcs she has to offer (like mine right now, and only with set-up set, otherwise you are just using a subpar Tios.
Btw with the right defensive backbone that works just to let her sweep, probably she is the most broken wincon in Tower)
I think Jynx' better option is Perish Trapper, but Gengar completely eats her in that role outside of Lovely Kiss niche to gain free turn of PS set-up
And yes, Ludicolo 4 is actually viable but I'm using a cancer team, teambuilding a more cancerous one and still think THIS is too much (jokes apart, viable but too slow even invested, Sceptile is better in this evil niche -even if Water/Grass is a nice combination-)
Unfortunately Slowbro doesn't learn Slack Off in gen3 -it's a signature move of Slaking, completely useless- (otherwise Bro would be a top pick imho)
Latias is very good but Latios simply outclasses her outside of certain (stall/combo) teams that specificly need the better defensive calcs she has to offer (like mine right now, and only with set-up set, otherwise you are just using a subpar Tios.
Btw with the right defensive backbone that works just to let her sweep, probably she is the most broken wincon in Tower)
I think Jynx' better option is Perish Trapper, but Gengar completely eats her in that role outside of Lovely Kiss niche to gain free turn of PS set-up
And yes, Ludicolo 4 is actually viable but I'm using a cancer team, teambuilding a more cancerous one and still think THIS is too much (jokes apart, viable but too slow even invested, Sceptile is better in this evil niche -even if Water/Grass is a nice combination-)
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not disputing this at all but it doesn't mean that latias isn't still good on its own merit. it's still going to be just as good an option for someone who can't access a latios with ivs for whatever reason
Meganium is listed I assume for bulky seeder and its decent 80 speed but venu can function the same with better defensive typing (immune to toxic, fighting resist) He does not resist ground though which is big I suppose but I think he may be as good as meg. I am yet to test it though have not even yet started my emerald cart save file .-.
Oh and his secondary stab allows him to blow past grass mons immune to seed*
edit: I am making another team for the fun of it that is using steelix. I only seen band steelix on Kommo-o 's team though. Is band the only set you guys figure is worth while? I was considering EQ, TOXIC, PROTECT/REST, HP STEEL/SLEEPTALK (maybe explosion or HP rock aswell) The lead is standard offensive starmie since the two resist everything bar grass and ground. Was considering morning sun PP stall moltres OR just a defensive zapdos.
Oh and his secondary stab allows him to blow past grass mons immune to seed*
edit: I am making another team for the fun of it that is using steelix. I only seen band steelix on Kommo-o 's team though. Is band the only set you guys figure is worth while? I was considering EQ, TOXIC, PROTECT/REST, HP STEEL/SLEEPTALK (maybe explosion or HP rock aswell) The lead is standard offensive starmie since the two resist everything bar grass and ground. Was considering morning sun PP stall moltres OR just a defensive zapdos.
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Care to elaborate more on teambuilding around Latias? I understand she’s one of the toughest pokes to go through, just the standard set of DC / CM / Sub / Rec? I’m thinking about running with Steelix, maybe even a bulky Gyarados to cripple physical mons so I can set up with Latias more? Cune isn’t a bad option either, but I think Intimidate would come in handy? Even Snorlax with his psueo-ice resistance could work, maybe CB
Also, Aero in B tier? Outpacing everything in the frontier save for Jolteon 4 with 500+ speed? Electric is a little scary but I’m fairly sure Aero can handle most of them
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I simply used Banded Steelix because I needed the resistances and immunities while still having someone that could blow up opposing Curse users. Starmie and Zapdos could work out as partners taking into account that your three team members are able to resist each other weakness. Another option you can have over Zapdos is Salamence if you run Banded Steelix in order to grab someone in your team who is capable of setting up in Speed.
EDIT: I just realized that Curse Steelix does not exists in Gen III. Sadly, it seems that CB is the only viable set for Gen III
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Ok, I think time has come for me to present my current team.
A more accurate post (or article) about mechanics and gameplan is needed and will arrive.
This is IRIDESCENCE
A more accurate post (or article) about mechanics and gameplan is needed and will arrive.
This is IRIDESCENCE
BLEACH (Skarmory) (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Protect
- Whirlwind
- Torment
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Protect
- Whirlwind
- Torment
The idea to move Skarmory in leading position was the winning one, hands down.
With Protect I can safely scout opponent's sets and decide my gameplan, eventually even on how to effectively PP stall the enemy to let Latias safely set-up.
Torment is the key move of my team and adding it on my set's movepool is probably the intuition I'm most proud of.
In fact, thanks to my team's great typings and synergies, foes often carry just one move that hits my members for serious damage, and I can block it since all of my Pokemons run Protect and/or Substitute. Moreover, it makes PP stalling and swap stalling a lot easier!
(For example, with Torment and Protect Skarmory can easily PP stall all Rhydon sets)
This passive approach leaves me potentially weak to set-up sweepers and that's the reason why I run Whirlwind.
I already know what enemies can be threathening and I open a lot of matches phazing away opponents, in search for an easiest set-up bait in foe's team.
Don't be afraid of abusing phaze, keep in mind that you only have to find one set-up fodder, while other foes have then to face a +6/+6 Latias behind a Substitute.
Rest is the only recovery move Skarmory has access to, and it's also really good for PP stalling, letting you gain free turns. Paired with Chesto Berry, this makes Skarmory really hard to pass through.
With Protect I can safely scout opponent's sets and decide my gameplan, eventually even on how to effectively PP stall the enemy to let Latias safely set-up.
Torment is the key move of my team and adding it on my set's movepool is probably the intuition I'm most proud of.
In fact, thanks to my team's great typings and synergies, foes often carry just one move that hits my members for serious damage, and I can block it since all of my Pokemons run Protect and/or Substitute. Moreover, it makes PP stalling and swap stalling a lot easier!
(For example, with Torment and Protect Skarmory can easily PP stall all Rhydon sets)
This passive approach leaves me potentially weak to set-up sweepers and that's the reason why I run Whirlwind.
I already know what enemies can be threathening and I open a lot of matches phazing away opponents, in search for an easiest set-up bait in foe's team.
Don't be afraid of abusing phaze, keep in mind that you only have to find one set-up fodder, while other foes have then to face a +6/+6 Latias behind a Substitute.
Rest is the only recovery move Skarmory has access to, and it's also really good for PP stalling, letting you gain free turns. Paired with Chesto Berry, this makes Skarmory really hard to pass through.
This Skarmory's spread is quite standard.
Full HP investment (244 HP EVs to make HP stat odd for an extra turn vs. Leech Seed/Curse...), Bold Nature with 180 Def EVs lets Skarmory reach 201 Def (that makes a defensive jump on calcs), while 80 SpDef EVs eases the matchup vs. Espeon and makes Skarmory surprisingly bulky even on Special side (it can tank almost every non-STAB super-effective hit, in case I need to land a Torment to win a match).
Then there are 4 Spe EVs to outspeed most of Metagross sets, while Skarmory already outpaces all of the OHKO moves users.
Full HP investment (244 HP EVs to make HP stat odd for an extra turn vs. Leech Seed/Curse...), Bold Nature with 180 Def EVs lets Skarmory reach 201 Def (that makes a defensive jump on calcs), while 80 SpDef EVs eases the matchup vs. Espeon and makes Skarmory surprisingly bulky even on Special side (it can tank almost every non-STAB super-effective hit, in case I need to land a Torment to win a match).
Then there are 4 Spe EVs to outspeed most of Metagross sets, while Skarmory already outpaces all of the OHKO moves users.
NO HALO (Blissey) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled
- Hail
- Protect
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled
- Hail
- Protect
I know what y'all are thinking: HAIL?!
Let me explain, it makes sense, but now first things first.
This Blissey set uses a Spread I've already described in a previous post.
Fast Blissey is a stall monster, can outspeed and PP stall even strong Physical hitters thanks to Torment (I'll say again, key move of the team) and the combination of Leftovers, Substitute and Protect.
Despite it may seem redundant, the latter one is crucial against dangerous threats, like in particular Breelom3/Machamp7 (Attract bypasses Substitute and they are 75% Male), Armaldo 4 (if it manages to beat Skarmory with a ton of hax -it's already happened in this streak-) and Espeon 4 (the single biggest - if not only - real threat to my team, but my gameplan right now is to straightly phaze every leading Espeon away).
Soft-Boiled is the second best recovey move available in gen3, no needs of explanations.
Now, here we are.
Hail is something my team desperately needs: it's the only real answer to Double-Team spammers with Leftovers if they are the last foe left. Remember that unfortunately in this gen Struggle recoil damage is reducted, and a Pokemon with Leftovers can recover the Struggling damage causing an infinite battle (or, in other words, you've lost).
To be honest, most of these annoyers are easily handled by +6/+6 Latias (even if she misses some crucial OHKOs, like on Snorlax 1, Articuno 2, Regice 4), but there's one that's plain evil, Registeel 5.
Latias at +6 only manages to 3HKO, meaning that it can use Double-Team twice and it may become a problem (in one match, it made my Latias run out of DC PPs and I couldn't phaze it away because it was the last foe).
If this cancer racks up a couple of Evasion boosts while eluding my hits, without Hail I can pray for a Critical Hit through Evasion and then easily shut down my GBA.
Hail negates Leftovers recovery, bypasses accuracy and let me then counter every Double-Team abuser (outside of Ice type ones, that are 2HKOed by +6 Dragon Claw)
Let me explain, it makes sense, but now first things first.
This Blissey set uses a Spread I've already described in a previous post.
Fast Blissey is a stall monster, can outspeed and PP stall even strong Physical hitters thanks to Torment (I'll say again, key move of the team) and the combination of Leftovers, Substitute and Protect.
Despite it may seem redundant, the latter one is crucial against dangerous threats, like in particular Breelom3/Machamp7 (Attract bypasses Substitute and they are 75% Male), Armaldo 4 (if it manages to beat Skarmory with a ton of hax -it's already happened in this streak-) and Espeon 4 (the single biggest - if not only - real threat to my team, but my gameplan right now is to straightly phaze every leading Espeon away).
Soft-Boiled is the second best recovey move available in gen3, no needs of explanations.
Now, here we are.
Hail is something my team desperately needs: it's the only real answer to Double-Team spammers with Leftovers if they are the last foe left. Remember that unfortunately in this gen Struggle recoil damage is reducted, and a Pokemon with Leftovers can recover the Struggling damage causing an infinite battle (or, in other words, you've lost).
To be honest, most of these annoyers are easily handled by +6/+6 Latias (even if she misses some crucial OHKOs, like on Snorlax 1, Articuno 2, Regice 4), but there's one that's plain evil, Registeel 5.
Latias at +6 only manages to 3HKO, meaning that it can use Double-Team twice and it may become a problem (in one match, it made my Latias run out of DC PPs and I couldn't phaze it away because it was the last foe).
If this cancer racks up a couple of Evasion boosts while eluding my hits, without Hail I can pray for a Critical Hit through Evasion and then easily shut down my GBA.
Hail negates Leftovers recovery, bypasses accuracy and let me then counter every Double-Team abuser (outside of Ice type ones, that are 2HKOed by +6 Dragon Claw)
I've already described this spread in a previous post, nothing to add.
TONYA (Latias) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 172 HP / 12 Def / 104 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 31 HP / 6 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 31 SpDef / 31 Spe
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Claw
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 172 HP / 12 Def / 104 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 31 HP / 6 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 31 SpDef / 31 Spe
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Claw
Here's the star.
As I wrote before, I'm firmly convinced she is the best set-up sweeper in the whole Tower, period.
The set is easy to understand, Calm Mind, Recover and Dragon Claw are standard moves, Lum berry lets her directly switch into status moves and Substitute works perfectly with Torment (key move etc...).
She manages to set-up on half of Tower foes by herself and the team support is here to handle and PP stall enemies she can't handle.
Latias also helps the SkarmBliss core with her resistance on threats -STAB Fighting and mixed Fire types- that otherwise could be an issue.
As I wrote before, I'm firmly convinced she is the best set-up sweeper in the whole Tower, period.
The set is easy to understand, Calm Mind, Recover and Dragon Claw are standard moves, Lum berry lets her directly switch into status moves and Substitute works perfectly with Torment (key move etc...).
She manages to set-up on half of Tower foes by herself and the team support is here to handle and PP stall enemies she can't handle.
Latias also helps the SkarmBliss core with her resistance on threats -STAB Fighting and mixed Fire types- that otherwise could be an issue.
I managed to RNG a Shiny Timid Latias with the following IVs: 31/6/31/30/31/31.
Latias spread was suggested by Kommo-o , because I was running Timid Nature with 0 SpA investment and I was complaining about the threat Marowak was. With 104 SpA EVs Dragon Claw has 95.7% chances of 2HKOing Marowak, which is great (for emergency situations, because usually Marowak is a turn 1 Whirlwind target).
220 Spe EVs are mandatory because Latias has to sit at 173 speedtier, outspeeding everything bar Jolteon 1/4 and Crobat 3/4 (eaten alive respectively by Blissey and Skarmory).
172 HP EVs makes Latias as bulky as possible (while also reaching a useless Leftovers number), and then 12 Def EVs are there to minimize risks of 2HKO vs. Breloom/Machamp Focus Punch.
Latias spread was suggested by Kommo-o , because I was running Timid Nature with 0 SpA investment and I was complaining about the threat Marowak was. With 104 SpA EVs Dragon Claw has 95.7% chances of 2HKOing Marowak, which is great (for emergency situations, because usually Marowak is a turn 1 Whirlwind target).
220 Spe EVs are mandatory because Latias has to sit at 173 speedtier, outspeeding everything bar Jolteon 1/4 and Crobat 3/4 (eaten alive respectively by Blissey and Skarmory).
172 HP EVs makes Latias as bulky as possible (while also reaching a useless Leftovers number), and then 12 Def EVs are there to minimize risks of 2HKO vs. Breloom/Machamp Focus Punch.
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Latias is a pretty good mon, but you will want to go into a bulky role so that it doesn't gets outclassed by Latios and you take advantage of her better defenses. You can go for Sub / CM / Dragon Claw / Recover or you can go with HP Fire over Sub. Whichever suits your team best. Gyarados is an amazing DD user and I like him a lot on this generation. This is a set I have built on Lv.50, so you can adapt it to whatever level you will be taking on:
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
IVs: 0 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 180 HP / 148 Atk / 4 Def / 8 SpD / 168 Spe
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Flying
180 HP EVs will let you hit 193 HP which is a perfect Leftovers number which will allow you to recover the lost HP from a Sub in 4 turns, grants you an extra turn on Leech Seed / Toxic if you ever get hit by that and the best bulk possible to take advantage of Intimidate. 168 Spe let's you outpace all Slaking sets so you can use them as set up fodder with Substitute. 4 Def and 8 SpD EVs to increase Gyarados' overall bulk while giving 255 SpA Swampert a minimum chance to break the Sub with Ice Beam and the rest goes into Attack letting you 2HKO 252 HP Skarm at +6 with HP Flying, preventing it from walling you.
Adamant Nature
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
IVs: 0 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 180 HP / 148 Atk / 4 Def / 8 SpD / 168 Spe
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Flying
180 HP EVs will let you hit 193 HP which is a perfect Leftovers number which will allow you to recover the lost HP from a Sub in 4 turns, grants you an extra turn on Leech Seed / Toxic if you ever get hit by that and the best bulk possible to take advantage of Intimidate. 168 Spe let's you outpace all Slaking sets so you can use them as set up fodder with Substitute. 4 Def and 8 SpD EVs to increase Gyarados' overall bulk while giving 255 SpA Swampert a minimum chance to break the Sub with Ice Beam and the rest goes into Attack letting you 2HKO 252 HP Skarm at +6 with HP Flying, preventing it from walling you.
I agree with this. Aerodactyl should be higher considering how much fun I had playing CB and the PP staller set Thomaz made for BF use. It's pretty effective by itself although kind of hard to balance on a team due to its weaknesses.
Imho Steelix can form really effective defensive cores outside of CB set.
For example, if a team has a strong answer to Fighting Type, this Steelix set can work as a pseudo-Skarmory (with also better Def stat):
Steelix (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 20 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Rest
- Roar
- Torment
This set can easily stop and PP stall Rhydon, which is a tremendous feat for a Sturdy user. More sets can be explored and tried, I reported this one that is also featured in a new (BIG!) team I'm working on.
In the end it's an extremely viable member (since it's almost mandatory to have a Sturdy user) for a pure stall built.
EDIT: I've uploaded the video of IRIDESCENCE breaking 600 wins wall (!)
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Sub lets you not get hit by way too many things. Considering that streaks are down to 1 instance of bad hax, it's extremely important and I coulnd't imagine giving it up for ice beam on Jumpman's team. Although the Suicune set on his team is the go to set up sweeper, so if you wanted to use your set, you'd probably need something else to take the role of reliable set up sweeper.
Yeah for sure, in the team I use it in Suicune is Mr reliable, the one to take care of anything spooky and to pp stall any threatening moves. I have curse/amnesia Snorlax backing it up as a set up sweeper to take care of anything suicune can't.
So I ended up making some changes to the tierlist while adding more additions. If you have more suggestions, please let us know as this tierlist will only evolve further with your feedback. Hopefully it will be now more accurate and helpful when it comes to picking your choices in Gen III:
- Moved Swampert from +A -> A
- Moved Tauros from +B -> A
- Added Snorlax (
dunno how I missed this one lol) - Added an +A rank where Starmie, Snorlax, Latias, Flygon and Milotic reside
- Moved Heracross from -A -> A
- Added Hitmonlee, Magneton, Venusaur, Charizard, Scizor, Shedinja and much more to the tierlist!
- Moved Skarmory from +B -> -A
- Moved Medicham from +B -> B
- Might had move a couple of minor changes, but can't remember those on top of my head.
- Added a -C and a +C rank!
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You know I was actually working on a SandStall team for that exact purpose lol. Lead off with bulky TTar and use other pokes to stall out.
Does anyone know how exactly team composition works in Battle Frontier? If I have 2 pokemon weak to the same type, the AI uses pokemon with those kinds of moves to deal with it specifically, correct? Are there any types of moves where this disadvantage is nullified somewhat? I would imagine having 2 Pokes weak to bug wouldn’t be a big deal, because the only relevant Bug move is Megahorn which is exclusive to heracross? Or will this cause every opponent I run into to run Heracross? Lol
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This is a superstition that has been around every battle tower since I can remember. Team gen is always the same no matter the team you bring. Torment has been brought to light recently by great tower players (Adedede , Kommo-o ) and could be used with protect if you sport a shared weakness to let a mon in on the switch and then protect stall its weakness. I think sand stall sounds fun. Personally I would run DD ttar with HP rock, EQ and a filler move for team coverage but I am not at the tower yet haha. (or first gym ^.^ )
Well, I'm going to explain a little bit of how teambuilding works in Gen III in order to create a successful team for this generation since I had been reading that some people have been struggling on this. I've been researching on how to prepare this small wall of text but I have gotten a lot of very helpful insight from just reading NoCheese's articles and guides. It really helps that there's some similarities on how Gen III Tower / Frontier works, but of course it has its own perks which I can efficiently explain thanks to my own experiences and the help of the people who had been actively sharing their work and data collection on the Gen III thread.
Hope this helps and gives you a better idea on how to teambuild in Gen III.
When building your team, you want to take into account first, what kind of strategy you want to implement. There are many strategies that can be effective in Gen III as long as you’re familiarized with how they play. For Generation 3, teams can be simplified in two ways on how they play:
Also, it should be mentioned that the AI has a significantly worse intuition than the newer games considering that the AI fails to properly recognize Substitute which IMO it is the most broken move in Generation III. For items, make your priority getting these three which are the best and most important items to use in Generation III: Lum Berry (Can be found on Lilicove City if you talk to a Gentleman, but you must have a live battery to activate this event), Leftovers (You can find one on a trash can in the basement area of the SS Tidal) and a Choice Band (Bought in the Battle Frontier for 64 BPs).
Of course, it should be mentioned that since the only offensive boosting item is Choice Band (not counting pinch berries), there is a lack of firepower in Gen III, however, due to the poorly limited item distribution in Gen III this also gives space to infamous Pokemon such as Haxrein being more common. It is extremely common to find items like Brightpowder, Quick Claw or Focus Band on many powerful Pokemon such as Heracross, Salamence, Milotic, Slowking and Lapras which can potentially end up any streak at any point if you're not fully prepared for it. Also, there is an abundance of OHKO users who can simply land their100% accurate Sheer Colds / Horn Drills and make your team members fall like flies. Unlike newer generations where PP stalling is one of the most effective ways to build healthy streaks, it is incredibly underwhelming on this generation: Due to the old Struggle mechanics on Gen 3, its recoil damage is equal to ¼ of the damage the attack did to the opponent. In other words, you won't be taking a 25% of your health for struggling. To further explain this, if you're a Pokemon like Registeel or Blissey, your Struggle will do pathetic damage and as a result, your recoil damage will be very low. If one of these Pokemon holds an item like Leftovers, they will never be able to lose health and in fact, they will only recover HP due to the Leftovers recovery completely nullifying the Struggle recoil. This is even worse when dealing with Double Team spammers like Metagross 3 and Registeel 5, who are immune to Toxic and can't be brought down unless they are KO'd asap. So what happens if we attempt to PP stall a Pokemon like Registeel 5 but managed to accumulate a +6 in Evasion? You end up being at risk on being locked into an infinite battle. Infinite battles, are just as their name suggested, a never-ending spree where two sitting ducks end up participating on a staring contest. Because the foe is unable to faint and your Pokemon as well, you'll end up getting locked on turns where both fail to hurt each other because your Struggles are not strong enough to KO you through recoil damage. Getting locked into an infinite battle is pretty much a loss and you don't want to be there, so when you attempt to PP stall an opponent, make sure that you're able to take it out quickly (preferably before it even sets up) unless you carry countermeasures such as Perish Song, Haze or Taunt.
When you're building your team, there are a few roles that have been consistent so far on the teams represented on this thread so I'll go into describing them individually:
You don't necessarily have to follow this pattern, but because you only have three Pokemon on your team, it's vital that you minimize any glaring weaknesses, and have at least a reasonable play line against all the Pokemon you may face. It's also important to have knowledge on what are the sets being used. Generation III has the perk of being the only Generation in which some Pokemon have a whooping 8 sets total where trainers can use any of them. At some extent, your team should have at least a way to deal with OHKO users, Double Team, EnduReversal, Curse andLudicolo 4. When teambuilding, you will definitely want to check Thomaz's newly updated Gen 3 sheet which allows you not only to check the Pokemon used (so that you can get track of the items being used more efficiently) but also take a look into the AI trainer's pool.
I can't really stress how important it is to check atsync's post on Generation III mechanics which briefly covers many important things including the low/medium/high/legendary tiers that the AI uses on their pool, Species used depending on Trainer class, Lv.50 and Lv.100 speed tiers and finally a compilation of usual trends being found regarding the AI's behavior. You simply can't prepare for a high streak without checking first that post. Also, always keep in hand turskain's battle calculator which can also show you the Gen III sets by simply clicking on the ADV tab.
In designing and playing your team, you need to focus on reducing variance, even at the cost of expected value. For example, while Meteor Mash is an excellent move and one that allows Metagross achieve a lot of OHKOs with a Choice Band, 85% accuracy is a massive letdown and if you're aiming for a high streak, it will eventually miss either once or twice in a row jeopardizing your streak. Stick to 100% accurate moves if its possible to you because it reduces the chances where luck can potentially mess with you. Seriously, do it. Critical hits, flinches, stat drops, and other secondary effects of an enemy's attacks are similarly a big source of variance, so you also need to be prepared to minimize their risk. Substitute can provide protection from unexpected otherwise-fatal critical hits, and it also blocks status moves and secondary effect stat drops and status from attacking moves: When you take into account that the AI in Gen III does not properly recognizes the move and will keep on spamming status moves or stat dropping moves on it, it gives you plenty of chances to fully set-up and sweep the opponent.. On bulkier setup Pokemon, Rest can heal an unexpected statusing, and better still, while your Pokemon is resting, it cannot be re-statused. Lum Berry can likewise heal unexpected status which is beneficial for faster set-up Pokemon like Latios and Salamence.
Here are some additional tips:
- Teams that rely on crippling the opponent's lead taking advantage of the AI's lack of intuition, in most circumstances, and then fully set up a sweeper to clean the opponent's team.
- Teams that rely on powerful Pokemon that have strong offensive presence but they possess an excellent defensive synergy between each of their members covering their weaknesses.
Also, it should be mentioned that the AI has a significantly worse intuition than the newer games considering that the AI fails to properly recognize Substitute which IMO it is the most broken move in Generation III. For items, make your priority getting these three which are the best and most important items to use in Generation III: Lum Berry (Can be found on Lilicove City if you talk to a Gentleman, but you must have a live battery to activate this event), Leftovers (You can find one on a trash can in the basement area of the SS Tidal) and a Choice Band (Bought in the Battle Frontier for 64 BPs).
Of course, it should be mentioned that since the only offensive boosting item is Choice Band (not counting pinch berries), there is a lack of firepower in Gen III, however, due to the poorly limited item distribution in Gen III this also gives space to infamous Pokemon such as Haxrein being more common. It is extremely common to find items like Brightpowder, Quick Claw or Focus Band on many powerful Pokemon such as Heracross, Salamence, Milotic, Slowking and Lapras which can potentially end up any streak at any point if you're not fully prepared for it. Also, there is an abundance of OHKO users who can simply land their
When you're building your team, there are a few roles that have been consistent so far on the teams represented on this thread so I'll go into describing them individually:
As mentioned before, Speed is much more important on this generation due to the lack of pace. You'll want, most of the time, on the lead position a Pokemon that has a great or excellent Speed stat and most importantly, allow them to perform their role before anything else. For offensive teams, you'll want a lead that is capable of achieving a lot of OHKOs with great offensive power and coverage options. It can also be a Pokemon that only requires a few turn of setting up in order to ravage the opposing team. On the other hand, crippler teams will appreciate having a lead who is capable of crippling the opponent before it moves. By either immobilizing the opponent with moves like Trick, Memento or Thunder Wave or simply use a Substitute to take advantage of their lack of intuition, this will allow you to set up.
This role should belong to a Pokemon that is capable of handling the threats that your lead is unable to win against. While your lead Pokemon will usually be your main way to deal damage or cripple the opponent, on some cases, your pivot will usually become either your main backup or your win condition. Since most bulky mons usually are able to set-up, thanks to their defenses, they are able to do so while taking hits on the process. If your bulky pivot is capable of recovering its own health, it works even better for its purpose since it will be most likely the team member taking the most punishment for the team. Once fully set-up, most bulky pivots become win-cons for their team so it is very important to play them conservatively.
Your glue Pokemon must be a Pokemon that must be capable of covering the gap that your first two Pokemon have. It can be either a hard hitting Pokemon capable of putting a much more immediate offensive presence than your main sweeper and/or another bulky mon that complements defensively with your pivot and someone your lead can fall back into. Your glue Pokemon has to be that final piece of the puzzle where once you slot it in, you grin to yourself knowing that this team can actually work. If your final Pokemon doesn't gives you that initial and natural reaction, reconsidering changing a few things or use other team members that might be able to perform better.
You don't necessarily have to follow this pattern, but because you only have three Pokemon on your team, it's vital that you minimize any glaring weaknesses, and have at least a reasonable play line against all the Pokemon you may face. It's also important to have knowledge on what are the sets being used. Generation III has the perk of being the only Generation in which some Pokemon have a whooping 8 sets total where trainers can use any of them. At some extent, your team should have at least a way to deal with OHKO users, Double Team, EnduReversal, Curse and
I can't really stress how important it is to check atsync's post on Generation III mechanics which briefly covers many important things including the low/medium/high/legendary tiers that the AI uses on their pool, Species used depending on Trainer class, Lv.50 and Lv.100 speed tiers and finally a compilation of usual trends being found regarding the AI's behavior. You simply can't prepare for a high streak without checking first that post. Also, always keep in hand turskain's battle calculator which can also show you the Gen III sets by simply clicking on the ADV tab.
In designing and playing your team, you need to focus on reducing variance, even at the cost of expected value. For example, while Meteor Mash is an excellent move and one that allows Metagross achieve a lot of OHKOs with a Choice Band, 85% accuracy is a massive letdown and if you're aiming for a high streak, it will eventually miss either once or twice in a row jeopardizing your streak. Stick to 100% accurate moves if its possible to you because it reduces the chances where luck can potentially mess with you. Seriously, do it. Critical hits, flinches, stat drops, and other secondary effects of an enemy's attacks are similarly a big source of variance, so you also need to be prepared to minimize their risk. Substitute can provide protection from unexpected otherwise-fatal critical hits, and it also blocks status moves and secondary effect stat drops and status from attacking moves: When you take into account that the AI in Gen III does not properly recognizes the move and will keep on spamming status moves or stat dropping moves on it, it gives you plenty of chances to fully set-up and sweep the opponent.. On bulkier setup Pokemon, Rest can heal an unexpected statusing, and better still, while your Pokemon is resting, it cannot be re-statused. Lum Berry can likewise heal unexpected status which is beneficial for faster set-up Pokemon like Latios and Salamence.
Here are some additional tips:
- Your team must have a way to deal with Reversal: Medicham 2 is no slouch and the same can be said with Heracross 4. One of your team members should be capable of either resisting Reversal from good health or at least being immune to it, in order to prevent a sweep. While Heracross is the hardest one to deal with due to its STAB Megahorn (Which is super-effective against the Psychic Pokemon that resist Reversal), Blaziken and Medicham are easier to handle due to their weak secondary options. Salamence deserves a special mention not only because it resists the move but also has Intimidate to even weaken them further. Gengar is x4 resistant to Bug and immune to Reversal. While Latios needs to be on good health to take on Medicham, it does excellently against Blaziken.
- Your team should be capable of dealing with Double Team: Generation III is home to evasion spammers. You will probably even encounter two Double Team users on the same team, which is a frequent occurrence here. The good news is that while the majority of them don't carry Recovery moves, some of them have access to Rest (Gardevoir 2) or simply due to their typing (Metagross 3 and Registeel 5) they cannot be chipped down by Toxic. The best way to deal with those vulnerable to Poison, is simply by using Toxic. Make sure you poison them ASAP before they grab one boost because you only need to land ONE toxic to win. For those who are immune to it, sheer brute force is a good alternative. If you go this route, make sure your Pokemon is strong enough to take them down in one or two hits before it is too late. Aerial Ace is also a good strategy as not only it laughs at Heracross and Brightpowder users, but also lets you hit without the fear of missing against Double Team spammers. Set up sweepers can fully set up (specially if they have Substitute) and attempt to hit them at +6. Just make sure that the Double Teamer is actually something that will die to a +6 or else, you will be having a very bad time. Perish Song is possibly the foolproof way to deal with evasion boosters as not only it forces them out at their 3rd turn, but also once they are down to 1-v-1, they are guaranteed to die. Haze works on a similar fashion although it takes longer to take them down using this route.
- Your team must prevent at all costs from allowing Curse users to set up: Curse Snorlax is dangerous and it's the most relevant Curse user in Gen III. It has great bulk and with one or two Curse boosts it can be dangerous enough to sweep your team if unprepared. The best solution is simply carrying an Explosion user that can blow up the blubber ball. Haze and Perish Song also works, although you will definitely want your Pokemon to take hits from Snorlax even at +1 as a minimum. STAB Fighting type users like Heracross will dispatch Snorlax even with a +1 but must watch out for the occasional Quick Claw activation.
- OHKO OHKO: Goes without saying. The best countermeasure for OHKO moves is simply using a Pokemon with Sturdy. Pokemon like Steelix or Skarmory gets access to these abilities and Skarmory has the added bonus of being a cold counter to all Rhydon sets. Substitute on a Pokemon with Pressure like Suicune, Moltres or Zapdos also helps a lot with this issue even though it is more of a patch solution. Gengar deserves a mention as it is immune to Fissure, Guillotine and Horn Drill thanks to its typing and Levitate ability despite not having Sturdy. If you lack either of these, just pray to the RNG gods that their
100% accurateSheer Cold / Fissure / Guillotines will somehow miss and your next attack OHKOs. - Quick Claw is the bane of everything: I can count the amount of games where I felt my heart is leaving my throat whenever I see stuff like Rhydon and Armaldo 3. Quick Claw will randomly allow an opponent to outspeed you in one turn which is really bad as you don't want to get hit by a +2 Rock Slide or Earthquake if Armaldo 3 managed to get an SD boost, or getting Horn Drilled to death by Rhydon. Stalling is an option if you want to take down their other coverage options while forcing them to waste their OHKO moves on an immunity. Otherwise, stick to raw sheer power and make sure your next attack will be a OHKO.
- If you're aiming for a high streak, DO IT on Lv.50: Laddering without Tyranitar and Dragonite is a huge relief. The fact that you can do this without two 600 BST Pokemon that have plenty of hax items on their sets is huge. Also damage calculations at Lv.50 are higher than in Lv.100 which means that at this level your attacks will be doing more to your targets. Unless you are using Tyranitar on your team, always make your challenges on Lv.50 if you're aiming for a high streak.
- Your team must be capable of killing Shedinja / Wobbuffet: Believe it or not, I have seen teams getting cockblocked in the early rounds because people forget that Shedinja and Wobbuffet exist. While both are not really that common in the higher rounds, they do make a fair amount of appearances in early rounds. The reason why I believe a set up sweeper is obligatory on a team is precisely because of Wobbuffet. On Shedinja, goes without saying that you're pretty much auto-losing if you lack even a minimal coverage move for it. The beat way to deal with Wobbuffet is by setting up fully to +6. If you have Substitute, even better as if Wobbuffet is capable of taking a +6 attack, you'll want to protect yourself from that. On Shedinja, either have one way to fry it, or just poison it.
Hope this helps and gives you a better idea on how to teambuild in Gen III.
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I'd like to share my new record of 84 wins in the Battle Factory Open Level Singles!
Took me all day yesterday to get this done!
Proof
Some Highlights:
- In one of the last rounds I got a starting lineup with two Latios sets. One was shiny and one was normal! Blew my mind! Ended up going with the normal one because they were identical except for the shiny one having dragon claw and the normal one having psychic. It wouldn't let me use both.
- Also got two venusaurs in an earlier starting lineup.
- "Your opponent specializes in the use of the water type!" then the game proceeds to give me 4 fire type pokemon in the starting draft. Still managed to win.
- Kangaskhan's focus band activating 4 times in a row cost me a Latios and almost killed my Suicune.
- Beating Noland 4 times in 1 run!
Strategy:
- There are certain pokemon that I consider high tier and am always looking to get my hands on. In no particular order: Salamence, Latios, Gengar, Suicune, Metagross, Blissey, Snorlax, Heracross, Starmie, Slaking, Zapdos.
- I won't sacrifice the team's type synergy just to get a high tier pokemon. It's especially important that the team can't be swept by any one attack type, but also important to have a good diversity of attacking moves.
- I prefer to have a fast sweeper in the first position, with two bulkier boosting pokemon in back, but obviously this is a bit flexible.
- I try to aim for a team with this sort of type layout: Dragon or Electric, Normal or Steel, Water.
- I didn't use a lookup table for the different sets, since I was playing on the go, but I have a general idea of what the good and bad sets are from playing so much. (I have over 2000 BP) There are terrible sets on some of the high tier pokemon. The worst sets are ones with 1 or no attacking moves, (Dragonite with only Hyper Beam? REALLY???) and sets which try to mess you up by attacking from the special side instead of from the physical side or vice versa. (Physical gengar, special aerodactyl, etc.) Although I did have a good run with special Salamence.
- The most important part of my strategy is that I design the starting team with an idea of what kind of pokemon I will be looking to swap in later. If you don't plan it out from the beginning, you can easily find yourself in a situation where you see a high tier pokemon, but can't take it without compromising your team's integrity. The factory tends to immediately punish such swaps.
Loss:
I lost in the first battle after selecting a new set of pokemon. The game legit stacked things against me. The only good sets I was offered were a Double Team Toxic Focus Punch Substitute Registeel (with leftovers!) and a Quick Claw Rock Slide Brick Break Tyranitar (with no EQ, DD, or recovery) so I grabbed those and led with a Fearow. Yes a FEAROW. Just so I could prevent a fighting type sweep and maybe get some chip damage to make the other teammate's jobs easier. The other options that I remember are a Hypno with a twistedspoon and no psychic STAB (facepalm) and a Nidoqueen which would have been equally wrecked by any EQ user. I remember thinking: "I'll be fine if I can make it through the first round without seeing Metagross. BAM. First battle leads with a Metagross. I tried in vain to afflict a status on it using Fearow's Tri Attack, then I got a double team up on Registeel hoping for some hax (was instead 2HKOd by EQ), then it KOd Tyranitar with Brick Break. Ah well. It was a good run anyway.
Thanks for reading! I can't believe there aren't any higher Factory streaks on here yet! Surely someone has gotten farther? I would love to make it to 100 wins just to show that it's possible. Maybe next time.
Took me all day yesterday to get this done!
Proof
Some Highlights:
- In one of the last rounds I got a starting lineup with two Latios sets. One was shiny and one was normal! Blew my mind! Ended up going with the normal one because they were identical except for the shiny one having dragon claw and the normal one having psychic. It wouldn't let me use both.
- Also got two venusaurs in an earlier starting lineup.
- "Your opponent specializes in the use of the water type!" then the game proceeds to give me 4 fire type pokemon in the starting draft. Still managed to win.
- Kangaskhan's focus band activating 4 times in a row cost me a Latios and almost killed my Suicune.
- Beating Noland 4 times in 1 run!
Strategy:
- There are certain pokemon that I consider high tier and am always looking to get my hands on. In no particular order: Salamence, Latios, Gengar, Suicune, Metagross, Blissey, Snorlax, Heracross, Starmie, Slaking, Zapdos.
- I won't sacrifice the team's type synergy just to get a high tier pokemon. It's especially important that the team can't be swept by any one attack type, but also important to have a good diversity of attacking moves.
- I prefer to have a fast sweeper in the first position, with two bulkier boosting pokemon in back, but obviously this is a bit flexible.
- I try to aim for a team with this sort of type layout: Dragon or Electric, Normal or Steel, Water.
- I didn't use a lookup table for the different sets, since I was playing on the go, but I have a general idea of what the good and bad sets are from playing so much. (I have over 2000 BP) There are terrible sets on some of the high tier pokemon. The worst sets are ones with 1 or no attacking moves, (Dragonite with only Hyper Beam? REALLY???) and sets which try to mess you up by attacking from the special side instead of from the physical side or vice versa. (Physical gengar, special aerodactyl, etc.) Although I did have a good run with special Salamence.
- The most important part of my strategy is that I design the starting team with an idea of what kind of pokemon I will be looking to swap in later. If you don't plan it out from the beginning, you can easily find yourself in a situation where you see a high tier pokemon, but can't take it without compromising your team's integrity. The factory tends to immediately punish such swaps.
Loss:
I lost in the first battle after selecting a new set of pokemon. The game legit stacked things against me. The only good sets I was offered were a Double Team Toxic Focus Punch Substitute Registeel (with leftovers!) and a Quick Claw Rock Slide Brick Break Tyranitar (with no EQ, DD, or recovery) so I grabbed those and led with a Fearow. Yes a FEAROW. Just so I could prevent a fighting type sweep and maybe get some chip damage to make the other teammate's jobs easier. The other options that I remember are a Hypno with a twistedspoon and no psychic STAB (facepalm) and a Nidoqueen which would have been equally wrecked by any EQ user. I remember thinking: "I'll be fine if I can make it through the first round without seeing Metagross. BAM. First battle leads with a Metagross. I tried in vain to afflict a status on it using Fearow's Tri Attack, then I got a double team up on Registeel hoping for some hax (was instead 2HKOd by EQ), then it KOd Tyranitar with Brick Break. Ah well. It was a good run anyway.
Thanks for reading! I can't believe there aren't any higher Factory streaks on here yet! Surely someone has gotten farther? I would love to make it to 100 wins just to show that it's possible. Maybe next time.
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Decided to post a playlist on what I have been doing with my new team Crusaders are Unbreakable so far. Keep in mind that this isn't an official presentation of a streak but rather a showcase on how the team works/plays. Just take into account that the first battles were done with a Timid Blissey before making the change to Bold. Also, the Metagross had its EVs updated. I will present an official laddering streak once my retail cartridge arrives in a few weeks which will pretty much have all of the Pokemon I obtained on my save file.
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Since playing my current team is tremendously boring quite demanding, I've distracted myself teambuilding a lot in the last days and what has come up is a pure stall team that features a strong, forgotten Pokémon, that's also definitely one of my favs from childhood.
While testing with no real effort, barely checking Frontier spreadsheet, I've found myself sitting at 147 Wins in a blink without facing any tough match at all.
I'm really convinced the sky is the limit for this team.
This is Mount Sinai
Mannequin (Moltres) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect
Rotten (Steelix) (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 HP / 20 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Rest
- Roar
- Torment
Ugly (Blissey) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Defense Curl / Minimize
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
I will probably keep editing this post adding a quick brief of members/synergies/strategies, and I will also add a video where the absolute monster that Moltres is shines at its best.
I can assert without any doubt that it's one of the most dominant Pokèmon I've ever used at Frontier, and definitely the best lead by far.
EDIT:
While testing with no real effort, barely checking Frontier spreadsheet, I've found myself sitting at 147 Wins in a blink without facing any tough match at all.
I'm really convinced the sky is the limit for this team.
This is Mount Sinai
Mannequin (Moltres) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect
Rotten (Steelix) (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 HP / 20 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Rest
- Roar
- Torment
Ugly (Blissey) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Defense Curl / Minimize
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
I will probably keep editing this post adding a quick brief of members/synergies/strategies, and I will also add a video where the absolute monster that Moltres is shines at its best.
I can assert without any doubt that it's one of the most dominant Pokèmon I've ever used at Frontier, and definitely the best lead by far.
EDIT:
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I actually came up with this team comp just a few days ago, but I didn’t have any faith in Moltres’ bulk. Care to explain Blissey’s EVs? Or your EV choices in general? I assume you need to be fast to get Subs out?
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I actually read about a similar core, and I immediately smiled and wrote to Eruvala saying that it's exactly the core I had worked on (and the
P.S.: Tbh I had no faith in Moltres at all at the beginning, but it's simply amazing and I think that after this team it'll be a new trend
EDIT: Voltolos Fast Blissey uses a spread already well explained there:
I want to share with everyone this Blissey spread I made for the squad I'm using right now -but it's very flexible and could perfectly fit in a lot of teams-
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled
- Filler (Seismic Toss)
- Filler (Minimize)
This spread lets Blissey reach 106 Speed benchmark and 337 HP (Leftovers number must be divisible by 16 +1) with 252 mandatory EVs in Def and EVs left put in SpDef.
I use Leftovers, but if it is already assigned, then the best set would be Bold 4 HP / 252+ Def / 4 SpDef / 244 Spe (still reaches 106 Speed, with odd HP for Substitute and better Def) and the choiced Item should be Lum Berry.
I'm running different filler moves from the two written above, but I think the one I've reported will probably be the most standard set.
This Blissey sits at 106 speed tier, outspeeding an unexpected group of uninvested enemies in the Tower (and notably Nidoking 3, that otherwise would be a huge issue for my team and for stall in general) and is able to safely PP stall dangerous foes (like in particular Walrein 4) thanks to fast Substitute and Soft-Boiled, without losing crucial bulk.
She's really shining in my ongoing streak and other players (without spoilers) are effectively running fast Blissey too, to the point I can assert without hesitations it's the best route the pink blob can take in Emerald Battle Frontier.
EDIT: I've accidentally deleted this post before while previously editing spread for non-Leftovers set, and I've also corrected its EVs
Kommo-o has also written a post dedicated to Leftovers-less fast Blissey, with an IVs spread that lets her survive a turn more if badly poisoned by Toxic (credits to him for this discover):
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