Gen IV & Beyond Remakes - Is There A Demand?

[Pikachu315111]

With the recent announcement that ORAS will be having all the Legendary Pokemon from previous generations, it got me to thinking about "remake model".

As this model works, there's a remake a previous generation of Pokemon every new handheld console. GBA got FireRed & LeafGreen, DS got HeartGold & SoulSilver, and now the 3DS is getting Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire. So if this pattern continues naturally one would expect their to be a remake of Diamond & Pearl with the handheld that succeeds the 3DS (and no, New 3DS is still part of the 3DS family even though it'll have games only it can play). However Gen VI brought something very new to Pokemon that makes me wonder if they may start doing something different: Bringing the Pokemon World to 3D.

Gen III remakes were a long time coming, demand for it existing as soon as HGSS were released. However that was back when the games were still mostly 2D (with maybe splashes of 3D here and there). Basically, now that Pokemon has made the jump to 3D, is there a possibility of maybe sort of "restarting" the remake model? The idea of having Kanto and Johto in 3D is very tempting, maybe even moreso than a Gen IV remake.

Of course I'm not suggesting they remake Gen I and II again, like maybe have a game which let's us see how Kanto & Johto has changed since their original game's storyline and that of the recent generation. I would also argue that though ORAS has an excuse for two versions, maybe Gen IV should be restrained to one game.

What are your thoughts? Do you think they should just keep moving forward with the remake model they currently have or do you think they might now decide to shake things up now that we've moved onto 3D?

 

[The Avalanches]

I think we shouldn't be getting ahead of ourselves here…

 

[Stallmory]

For me, there is. I don't really mind if we end up getting (if we ever do, let's hope so) "Tempral Diamond" and "Spacial Pearl" or only "Ethereal Platinum" or whatever they names end up having (I'm really looking forward to them, more remakes is nice IMO), but I believe it's more attractive to have the option of choosing a game over one pair than just having one. This because some people preffer Dialga and others like Palkia more, nostalgia feelings (for people who had one and not the other), a very little different argument... and the fact GF really likes us to trade stuff from one game to another in order to complete the thing (well, everyone knows that). It also means more money for them (because there are people who will buy both versions.

 

[Ondore]

I think we'll see the demand spike once the 3DS's successor comes out, assuming the new system is only compatible with the 3DS.

 

[LeoLancaster]

I would buy a 3D remake of Platinum just for the scene where Giratina comes out of the Distortion world and spreads his wings dripping with shadow. It was epic enough in 2D (though I was fairly young at the time, haven't replayed it recently), I want to see it in 3D. Also a truly 3D Distortion world would be awesome.

 

[gars129]

I only want a Kanto/Johto sequel if they are together and the graphics/overworld have evolved further than now. I would love to see the regions reimagined in a more realistic, expansive way, rather than most ORAS in which most (not all) of the cities are just like the ones in GBA but in 3d. Would you imagine a Celadon or Saphron that looked like something from Pokemon Coloseum?

 

[Chill]

This is a tough one for me. One one hand, I don't want to see the games remade over and over again. On the other hand, Gen IV is probably my favorite gen and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't buy a remake.

GF releases a pokemon game every year now and considering how quickly the BW generation came and went as well as how few new pokemon we were given in XY I could see a remake coming in a few years time.

2013 XY
2014 ORAS
2015 XYZ2
2016 Gen VII
2017 Gen IV remake or Gen VII 2

What happens in 2017 basically depends on how GF feels about the remakes and how vocal fans are.It was recently stated in an interview that ORAS came into existence partly because of how much demand there was on social media. "Hoenn confirmed" has been a thing since we HGSS released. I was against the remaking of Gen III but there were a lot more people that wanted it. If the demand for a remade Gen IV is high enough it will happen, for better or for worse.

 

[Codraroll]

I think I'm obliged to inform everybody that this thread veers on the very edge of the OI rules. As posted, with the current thread title and OP, I see no reason to not keep it open, but wishlisting or detail speculations will not be tolerated.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I think I'm obliged to inform everybody that this thread veers on the very edge of the OI rules. As posted, with the current thread title and OP, I see no reason to not keep it open, but wishlisting or detail speculations will not be tolerated.

Oh, sorry, where would it be appropriate to talk about this subject?

 

[Codraroll]

The subject itself is fine, as long as the discussion stays on topic. I think it's an interesting thing to discuss, and when I've got some time to write longer posts I'll try to contribute some myself. But it can easily stray off into "I hope this feature will be in DP2" or "I think the BW remakes should expand on...", which would be wishlisting. However, discussing the potential itself, or the concept and philosophy of remakes seems harmless enough.

And the appropriate place to dicuss wishlisting? Um... Serebii or Bulbagarden, perhaps? I think it's allowed on IRC.

 

[sandstreamftw]

Well, this is the first remake to actually come into existence due to fan demand. Before, Gamefreak created them to help allow the user to catch pokemon and enjoy Generation 1 and 2 again, due to the internal batteries from those games dying out. I don't think a remake of gen 4 and beyond, let alone another gen 1 and 2 remake, is on their mind at the moment, due to no real incentive to work on them.

If the demand reaches memetastic levels like the one for gen 3, then it very well may happen.

 

[Codraroll]

I think remakes as a concept is quite interesting. The largest target group for remakes is people who played the originals, and want to play them again with the new mechanics they've enjoyed in later generations. Nostalgia is a main selling point here, and with as active a fanbase as Pokémon has, the promise of nostalgia creates a large media buzz that also excites the fans who never played the originals. As such nostalgia becomes a marketing tool too, which actually is quite ingenious. Old fans practically sell the games to new fans, with minimal marketing requirements from GameFreak's part.

That being said, there is a limit as to how late the remakes can come. Those who picked up RBY back when they were ten, are near thirty years old now. They have other obligations in life than convincing fellow Pokémon fans that RBY were the best games ever, and trying to sell it again to them now probably wouldn't work as well. The remakes are best directed at people who played the original games as their first game, which currently corresponds quite well with the RSE crowd from 2003-2007.

However, there's also a limit as to how soon the remakes can come, not only with regards to the fan base, but also technological progress. I don't think the difference between the graphics of DP and XY are big enough to warrant a remake, for instance, the games are only a single console generation apart (and although the same technically was the case for RBY->FRLG, the differences were more notable back then). Also, once ORAS is out, "all" main games of every generation save the first are playable on the same console, and the DP cartridges aren't plagued by battery death or incompatibility. If an old fan wants to play his old DP game, all he has to do is smack it into the 3DS and play to his heart's content. The graphics don't even look half bad, and in the broad sense the mechanics are roughly the same as today. Even new fans can pick up the old games at a flea market and plug them right into their consoles if they want to play; there are no compatibility issues yet.

I'm not sure technology differences warranting a Gen. IV remake will happen before the majority of the nostalgia age group ages past their "prime". DP are still surprisingly well up to standard for the most part, and fans might stay content with the originals for as long as they care about Pokémon games. In other words, the nostalgic fans might be outdated before the games will be.

Still, it might be that GameFreak decides that remakes = money, and I bet they'd sell tons of copies anyway, simply because there are enough fans out there that would buy every main series game, to practically guarantee a profit. This little fact makes it really hard to predict their moves from a business standpoint.


So let's try another angle. Namely, design.

One could also say that remakes are a way for GameFreak to make new games, keeping up the release frequency of Pokémon games and satisfying fans without adding to the already-tremendous pile of Pokémon, moves and items, and without having to come up with entirely new features or new regions (with all the lore, scripting and art that involves - not to mention the graphical engine).

I think it's fair to say that a remake involves significantly less work than an entirely new generation. I think it is also uncontroversial to state that the fans crave new games to play every 18 months or so, and by remaking old games GameFreak can keep the fans satisfied without having to create new generations more often than they currently do. As fans, we have high expectations for new generations, such as new Pokémon, new mechanics and graphical improvements over previous games, so I don't think it would be feasible to crank out new generations at the rate of current game releases.

As such, GameFreak is practically required to make new main series Pokémon games that aren't entirely new generations. Remakes fit these criteria to a T, allowing for reuse of old and well-tried content, mixed with just enough new content to make the fans happy, but without demanding too much of the planning/design team (who will be busy working on the next generation games while "remakes" are being made). It is a win-win situation.

Interestingly, though, BW2 showed that they could also have some success with making a "current game plus", simpy expanding on the latest region enough to justify releasing the good-old "third version" as two full games (although it could also be done as one game, but they'd make less money that way). Since fans don't have as many expectations for the game to follow an existing plot, this solution allows for greater freedom than remaking old games. Also, art, engine and even entire locations can be fully reused without anybody complaining. Just have the place appear at a different time in the story, change the NPCs and give the trainers new Pokémon, and presto! The place is new and exciting.

So to sum up, there are two ways to meet the demand for new games without creating an entirely new generation: Remake a pair of old games that a large portion of the fans have nostalgic feelings for, or remake the newest games. Or, well, remix the newest games. In any case, they are using old content in new ways, satisfying fans while saving work.


In conclusion, while it isn't guaranteed that D/P - or any other game - specifically will be remade, I think it is extremely plausible that GameFreak will continue to make not-entirely-new games in the future, simply because they have to in order to meet the demand. Remakes, sequels or maybe something entirely new - I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it will keep coming.

 

[Agonist]

Well, this is the first remake to actually come into existence due to fan demand.

I highly doubt they remade is based off fan demand alone. For one, it's a pain in the ass to transfer stuff from the original Hoenn games to the current Gen (you need an original DS or DS Lite to get them onto Gen 4, then another DS to get them to Gen 5, and finally, a Pokebank account (and a 3DS) to get them into Gen 6). Secondly, many of the game developers have said the Hoenn in one of their favorite regions out of the ones they've done so far. While the graphics and mechanics in the original RS are far better than RBGY, and GSC, they're far behind Gen VI, and remaking the games not only allows them to update to the current level, but also allows them to revisit one of their favorite regions, tweak it, add new features, and have fun doing so, as they don't need to come up with a new concept for an all new game.

 

[Lady Vader]

I think it is likely that a remake of Diamond and Pearl might come out one day. Like Cod said, there really isn't much to be improved due to how similar Gen IV is to VI (though an increase in speed would be nice) and it is only one system away currently, but if they are remade, it won't be in Gen VI, but Gen VII or later.
If it is made, it won't be for another five years. Why five? Simple: that is the current rate of remakes:
FireRed and LeafGreen: 2004
HeartGold and SoulSilver: 2009 (2010 internationally)
Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire: 2014
Sinnoh remakes: 2019???

But that is pure speculation.

 

[IcyMan28]

I'm sure that eventually GF will decide to make Gen 4 remakes, but as of right now there simply isn't enough of a difference between Gen 4 and Gen 6 to warrant it.

As a sidenote, is there ever a time when the fandom can just enjoy what we're getting in the moment instead of rabidly demanding more remakes? The announcement of ORAS was followed by "Gen 4 remakes confirmed???" and the inevitable "DAE Kanto? DAE Red?" that plague every new pokemon announcement. Give these games their time to shine before focusing on new remakes.

 

[Lady Vader]

As a sidenote, is there ever a time when the fandom can just enjoy what we're getting in the moment instead of rabidly demanding more remakes? The announcement of ORAS was followed by "Gen 4 remakes confirmed???" and the inevitable "DAE Kanto? DAE Red?" that plague every new pokemon announcement. Give these games their time to shine before focusing on new remakes.

While I do agree overall with your statement, I think the reason people are thinking ahead is that now it feels more likely. After Gen V passed without Hoenn remakes, we wondered if the simple fact that we could access all of the Hoenn Pokémon without difficulty (even if all we have are DSi and 3DS systems thanks to HeartGold and SoulSilver) was the reason we didn't get them. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire disproves that.

Also, what's "DAE" mean in this context?

 

[sandstreamftw]

I highly doubt they remade is based off fan demand alone. For one, it's a pain in the ass to transfer stuff from the original Hoenn games to the current Gen (you need an original DS or DS Lite to get them onto Gen 4, then another DS to get them to Gen 5, and finally, a Pokebank account (and a 3DS) to get them into Gen 6). Secondly, many of the game developers have said the Hoenn in one of their favorite regions out of the ones they've done so far. While the graphics and mechanics in the original RS are far better than RBGY, and GSC, they're far behind Gen VI, and remaking the games not only allows them to update to the current level, but also allows them to revisit one of their favorite regions, tweak it, add new features, and have fun doing so, as they don't need to come up with a new concept for an all new game.

I never said it was the only one, but it is the first one to take fan demand into consideration. With the previous games, you could literally not play them anymore, nor could you even trade over the pokemon from there to your new games. I do agree that they've made a concerted effort to try and make sure you can get as many pokemon in Gen 6 alone, and they'd probably would want to do the same once Gen 7 comes out, 8, etc, so yeah, I guess you're right on that, just because there would be new players who don't want to go through the trouble of purchasing older games just to get access to older pokemon.

 

[GG Unit]

Interestingly, though, BW2 showed that they could also have some success with making a "current game plus", simpy expanding on the latest region enough to justify releasing the good-old "third version" as two full games (although it could also be done as one game, but they'd make less money that way).

From what I can gather, Platinum sold 7.06 million copies in the first 18 months while Black 2 + White 2 sold 7.81 million. That seems like a thin enough margin (with no good source for what sales have done outside of that period) that once you consider the relative size of the player base at the two different times, the extra resources needed to put together two games, and so on, it might not have resulted in a higher profit.

 

[Kittttten]

What if they made BW2 remakes in 3D? I honestly don't think it would be that cool, although i could be wrong. I don't seem to remember any particularly interesting parts except when Kyurem absorbs N's Reshiram/Zekrom.

 

[Chill]

While I do agree overall with your statement, I think the reason people are thinking ahead is that now it feels more likely. After Gen V passed without Hoenn remakes, we wondered if the simple fact that we could access all of the Hoenn Pokémon without difficulty (even if all we have are DSi and 3DS systems thanks to HeartGold and SoulSilver) was the reason we didn't get them. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire disproves that.

Also, what's "DAE" mean in this context?

Does anyone else? In this context it's being used as a sarcastic or joking method to comment on oft repeated statements or desires.

 

[Celever]

I don't think Gen 4 is going to be remade because of trading etc. or a new gen console being released. Personally I think Gen 7 is going to stick on the 3DS, but Gen 4 is going to be there with it.

Why? It's not fan demand, and it's not to get all of the Pokémon (you can do that with XY and ORAS collectively, as confirmed in an interview). I personally think GF just likes the challenge of refining and improving their old games, and ORAS is a perfect example of this. The director's first project was the original gen 3, and he is clearly enjoying reliving and improving those past memories. I'm also really looking forward to the new elements they will bring now; FRLG changed pretty much nothing besides the graphics, HGSS added tidbits here and there (Johto safari, Battle Frontier), but ORAS is developing a brand new optional storyline for the contests, the Soar mechanic, a more expansive ocean, a continuation of the story of mega-evolutions from XY, improved PokéNav, and even things like physically creeping up on rare Pokémon. Think about what Gen 4 has to offer!

I think that Gen 4 is in more dire need of a remake too. After Gen 5, everyone came to realise just how slow Gen 4 is. I really love the games in and of themselves, but the game engine means that oftentimes I don't finish a run out of lack of attention span, whereas in that time I would have finished a Gen 3 or 5 game. A faster, smoother DP would really give it a place in "favourite games" discussions.

Basically, it's going to happen, but next generation, of course. That means we still have ORAS amd then probably two years until X2/Y2 or Z to come out and then the starting Gen 7 games and THEN the remakes. I wouldn't hold your breath rn lol.

 

[Khaelis]

Personally I feel like there doesn't need to be 3D remakes for previously already remade Generations, but there will be people that say there is a need for them. Even though they've already been remade, something can't be redone several times.

While I personally feel like there there doesn't need to remakes of something already made, I wouldn't mind if they eventually got around to remaking the older Generation remake games.

 

[Blizzy]

Pearl was my first pokemon game, so I'm biased, but I think it could do with a remake. I want to see Dialga/Palkia on the top of Mt. Coronet emitting their temporal/spatial waves in glorious 3D.
Also, it's really weird that ORAS is introducing Primal forms, and yet there's no Primal Dialga in sight... (Sinnoh confirmed?)

 

[Karxrida]

Pearl was my first pokemon game, so I'm biased, but I think it could do with a remake. I want to see Dialga/Palkia on the top of Mt. Coronet emitting their temporal/spatial waves in glorious 3D.
Also, it's really weird that ORAS is introducing Primal forms, and yet there's no Primal Dialga in sight... (Sinnoh confirmed?)

Primal Dialga was called Dark Dialga in Japanese, so there isn't any relation. Besides, PMD wasn't developed by Game Freak so they're not obligated to make Primals for Dialga/Palkia for continuity's sake.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Primal Dialga was called Dark Dialga in Japanese, so there isn't any relation. Besides, PMD wasn't developed by Game Freak so they're not obligated to make Primals for Dialga/Palkia for continuity's sake.

In addition Primal Dialga was just a color swap of normal Dialga. I'm sure whatever "Mega" form they give to Dialga (and Palkia, maybe Giratina too) it'll be more then a color swap. Add being they used Primal for Groudon and Kyogre, I doubt they would repeat the idea again. I mean they could, but due to the story about Primal Reversion it sounds like only something Groudon and Kyogre could do (and maybe Rayquaza).

I know this may be a dumb question, but the New 3DS, would you consider it the next Nintendo handheld or just an upgrade version of the 3DS? I ask because it was announced that due to its higher power that some games will only be playable on it. Could it be possible that the next batch of games will only be playable on it?