Gen-NEXT development thread

[goodknife]

can i suggest abilities buff here? 0.0

Aura Break
current: Reverses the effect of Aura abilities
change: Reverses the effect of Aura abilities + Nullified the effects of Air Lock, Cloud Nine, Mold Breaker, Pressure, Teravolt, Turboblaze and Unnerve

Blaze, Overgrow, Swarm and Torrent
current: When this Pokemon has 1/3 or less of its max HP, its xxx attacks do 1.5x damage
change: When this Pokemon has 1/2 or less of its max HP, its xxx attacks do 1.3x damage

Cute Charm
current: Can infatuate Pokemon of opposite gender when struck
change: remove gender and contact move condition, still has 30% chance to activated

Damp
current: While this Pokemon is active, Selfdestruct, Explosion, and Aftermath do not work
change: While this Pokemon is active, Selfdestruct, Explosion, Aftermath and + recoil moves do not work

Dark Aura
current: Increases the power of all Dark-type moves in battle to 1.33x
change: Increases the power of all Dark-type moves in battle to 1.33x + At the end of every turn, all pokemon lose 1/16 of its max HP

Fairy Aura
current: Increases the power of all Fairy-type moves in battle to 1.33x
change: Increases the power of all Fairy-type moves in battle to 1.33x + At the end of every turn, all pokemon restore 1/16 of its max HP

Forecast
current: Castform's type changes to the current weather condition's type, except Sandstorm
change: Castform's type changes to the current weather condition's type + Summons weather upon entering the battlefield according to hold item for 8 turns (Damp Rock, Heat Rock, Icy Rock and Smooth Rock)

Heavy Metal
current: This Pokemon's weight is doubled
change: The wielder's weight is doubled + Increases damage of user's steel type contact moves by 30%

Honey Gather
current: No competitive use
change: After each turn, the wielder may use Sweet Scent at a 50% chance

Illuminate
current: No competitive use
change: Raises the holder's evasion by 20% (brightpowder's clone, but better)

Light Metal
current: This Pokemon's weight is halved
change: This Pokemon's weight is halved + Reduces damage from fire, ground and fighting type by 1/4

Minus
current: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Sp. Atk is 1.5x
change: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Atk and Sp. Atk is 1.5x

Mold Breaker
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Ground immunity from flying type (1x damage)

Mummy
current: Pokemon making contact with this Pokemon have their Ability changed to Mummy
change: Pokemon making contact with this Pokemon or hit by this Pokemon contact moves have their Ability changed to Mummy

Plus
current: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Sp. Atk is 1.5x
change: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Atk and Sp. Atk is 1.5x

Pressure
current: If this Pokemon is the target of a foe's move, that move loses one additional PP
change: On switch-in, this Pokemon lowers adjacent foes' Accuracy by 1

Rivalry
current: Move power depends on gender of the opponent
change: When the wielder attacks an opponent that have at least one type SE or NVE against itself, the power of its attack increases by 25%. When the wielder attacks an opponent that have all type either nautral or immune to itself, the power of its attack decreases by 25%

Run Away
current: No competitive use
change: this pokemon can't trapped or pursuit, switch out when received damage >= 25% max hp

Slow Start
current: On switch-in, this Pokemon's Attack and Speed are halved for 5 turns
change: On switch-in, this Pokemon's Attack and Speed are halved for 3 turns

Sniper
current: If this Pokemon strikes with a critical hit, the damage is increased by 50%
change: This Pokemon's first attack will always result in critical hit, but halve its power

Stall
current: This Pokemon moves last among Pokemon using the same or greater priority moves
change: This Pokemon moves last among Pokemon using the same or greater priority moves + reduces damage taken from direct attacks by 30%

Stench
current: This Pokemon's attacks without a chance to flinch have a 10% chance to flinch
change: This Pokemon's attacks without a chance to flinch and secondary effect have a 30% chance to flinch

Teravolt
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Electric immunity from ground type (1x damage)

Turboblaze
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Dragon immunity from fairy type (1x damage)

Unnerve
current: While this Pokemon is active, prevents opposing Pokemon from using their Berries
change: While this Pokemon is active, prevents opposing Pokemon from using their consumable items

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

can i suggest abilities buff here? 0.0

Aura Break
current: Reverses the effect of Aura abilities
change: Reverses the effect of Aura abilities + Nullified the effects of Air Lock, Cloud Nine, Mold Breaker, Pressure, Teravolt, Turboblaze and Unnerve
The crossed out abilities wouldn't have any effect on Aura Break anyway. Even if we used your changes to them, only Teravolt would be impacted, and since Kyurem-B and Zekrom are banned here, there are no Pokemon that could use Teravolt anyway. (btw unnerve is not an aura ability in anyway).

Blaze, Overgrow, Swarm and Torrent
current: When this Pokemon has 1/3 or less of its max HP, its xxx attacks do 1.5x damage
change: When this Pokemon has 1/2 or less of its max HP, its xxx attacks do 1.3x damage

Cute Charm
current: Can infatuate Pokemon of opposite gender when struck
change: remove gender and contact move condition, still has 30% chance to activated

Damp
current: While this Pokemon is active, Selfdestruct, Explosion, and Aftermath do not work
change: While this Pokemon is active, Selfdestruct, Explosion, Aftermath and + recoil moves do not work
Why would being Damp stop the opponent from hitting you with recoil moves?

Dark Aura
current: Increases the power of all Dark-type moves in battle to 1.33x
change: Increases the power of all Dark-type moves in battle to 1.33x + At the end of every turn, all pokemon lose 1/16 of its max HP
All the Pokemon with this ability are banned in this mod.

Fairy Aura
current: Increases the power of all Fairy-type moves in battle to 1.33x
change: Increases the power of all Fairy-type moves in battle to 1.33x + At the end of every turn, all pokemon restore 1/16 of its max HP
All the Pokemon with this ability are banned in this mod.

Forecast
current: Castform's type changes to the current weather condition's type, except Sandstorm
change: Castform's type changes to the current weather condition's type + Summons weather upon entering the battlefield according to hold item for 8 turns (Damp Rock, Heat Rock, Icy Rock and Smooth Rock)
Already buffed. Check the readme in the OP. (Brokemons does this thing)

Heavy Metal
current: This Pokemon's weight is doubled
change: The wielder's weight is doubled + Increases damage of user's steel type contact moves by 30%

Honey Gather
current: No competitive use
change: After each turn, the wielder may use Sweet Scent at a 50% chance
Only Combee and Teddiursa have that ability. This change wouldn't make them viable, so what's the point?

Illuminate
current: No competitive use
change: Raises the holder's evasion by 20% (brightpowder's clone, but better)
Nope. No evasion boosting abilities.

Light Metal
current: This Pokemon's weight is halved
change: This Pokemon's weight is halved + Reduces damage from fire, ground and fighting type by 1/4
How would lower weight reduce damage from those types?

Minus
current: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Sp. Atk is 1.5x
change: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Atk and Sp. Atk is 1.5x
This would only effect doubles, so what's the point?

Mold Breaker
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Ground immunity from flying type (1x damage)
Don't do this. Bonemerang isn't broken in this meta because it's limited to Marowak and Ambipom. Giving things like Haxorus and Excadrill the same coverage wouldn't be good.

Mummy
current: Pokemon making contact with this Pokemon have their Ability changed to Mummy
change: Pokemon making contact with this Pokemon or hit by this Pokemon contact moves have their Ability changed to Mummy
This is okay.

Plus
current: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Sp. Atk is 1.5x
change: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Atk and Sp. Atk is 1.5x
Again, only effects doubles.

Pressure
current: If this Pokemon is the target of a foe's move, that move loses one additional PP
change: On switch-in, this Pokemon lowers adjacent foes' Accuracy by 1
NO! Bad!

Rivalry
current: Move power depends on gender of the opponent
change: When the wielder attacks an opponent that have at least one type SE or NVE against itself, the power of its attack increases by 25%. When the wielder attacks an opponent that have all type either nautral or immune to itself, the power of its attack decreases by 25%
This is overly convoluted.

Run Away
current: No competitive use
change: this pokemon can't trapped or pursuit, switch out when received damage >= 25% max hp
First part's fine, but the underlined section is horrible.

Slow Start
current: On switch-in, this Pokemon's Attack and Speed are halved for 5 turns
change: On switch-in, this Pokemon's Attack and Speed are halved for 3 turns
Already done. Read the readme.

Sniper
current: If this Pokemon strikes with a critical hit, the damage is increased by 50%
change: This Pokemon's first attack will always result in critical hit, but halve its power
What's the point of a critical hit if it's weaker than a regular hit? This makes Kingdra less viable.

Stall
current: This Pokemon moves last among Pokemon using the same or greater priority moves
change: This Pokemon moves last among Pokemon using the same or greater priority moves + reduces damage taken from direct attacks by 30%
Sableye prefers Prankster, and nothing else has this ability. What's the point?

Stench
current: This Pokemon's attacks without a chance to flinch have a 10% chance to flinch
change: This Pokemon's attacks without a chance to flinch and secondary effect have a 30% chance to flinch
Already bumped up to 40% chance regardless of secondary.

Teravolt
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Electric immunity from ground type (1x damage)
All the Pokemon with this ability are banned in this mod.

Turboblaze
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Dragon immunity from fairy type (1x damage)
All the Pokemon with this ability are banned in this mod.

Unnerve
current: While this Pokemon is active, prevents opposing Pokemon from using their Berries
change: While this Pokemon is active, prevents opposing Pokemon from using their consumable items
This sounds okay.

Replies in bold.

 

[En Passant]

Comments! (note: I'm not a part of Gen-NEXT's development)

Aura Break
current: Reverses the effect of Aura abilities
change: Reverses the effect of Aura abilities + Nullified the effects of Air Lock, Cloud Nine, Mold Breaker, Pressure, Teravolt, Turboblaze and Unnerve

I would choose different Abilities for it to negate. Air Lock, Teravolt, and Turboblaze are only found on banned Pokemon, Cloud Nine's been buffed to remove weather immediately (no longer has an active effect (meaning it activates only once on switch-in and thus can't be nullified)), Mold Breaker is unaffected (considering all it does is negate Abilities as well, and Zygarde's not a Flying type), and your Pressure change makes it not have an active effect either. To elaborate on PMD's comment, Unnerve's flavor is that the Pokemon's mere presence scares the foe, so it can't really be negated by Aura Break.

Blaze, Overgrow, Swarm and Torrent
current: When this Pokemon has 1/3 or less of its max HP, its xxx attacks do 1.5x damage
change: When this Pokemon has 1/2 or less of its max HP, its xxx attacks do 1.3x damage

Cool.

Cute Charm
current: Can infatuate Pokemon of opposite gender when struck
change: remove gender and contact move condition, still has 30% chance to activated

>suggesting all Pokemon can be homosexual
Joking aside, it should still only affect contact moves since the other Abilities do that.

Damp
current: While this Pokemon is active, Selfdestruct, Explosion, and Aftermath do not work
change: While this Pokemon is active, Selfdestruct, Explosion, Aftermath and + recoil moves do not work

While it lacks any sort of flavor, it could see niche use on Swampert to counter Talonflame and other physical Fire- and Flying-types that rely on Flare Blitz/Brave Bird.

Dark Aura
current: Increases the power of all Dark-type moves in battle to 1.33x
change: Increases the power of all Dark-type moves in battle to 1.33x + At the end of every turn, all pokemon lose 1/16 of its max HP

Fairy Aura
current: Increases the power of all Fairy-type moves in battle to 1.33x
change: Increases the power of all Fairy-type moves in battle to 1.33x + At the end of every turn, all pokemon restore 1/16 of its max HP

Excellent flavor, except Xerneas and Yveltal are banned, and I don't think they would like their foes gaining/themselves losing health.

Forecast
current: Castform's type changes to the current weather condition's type, except Sandstorm
change: Castform's type changes to the current weather condition's type + Summons weather upon entering the battlefield according to hold item for 8 turns (Damp Rock, Heat Rock, Icy Rock and Smooth Rock)

What PMD said.

Heavy Metal
current: This Pokemon's weight is doubled
change: The wielder's weight is doubled + Increases damage of user's steel type contact moves by 30%

Okay...? It only affects Aggron, who already has lots of power and generally prefers Rock Head for Head Smash.

Honey Gather
current: No competitive use
change: After each turn, the wielder may use Sweet Scent at a 50% chance

Still useless, considering the only Pokemon that get it are Teddiursa and Combee.

Illuminate
current: No competitive use
change: Raises the holder's evasion by 20% (brightpowder's clone, but better)

Evasion Clause says no.

Light Metal
current: This Pokemon's weight is halved
change: This Pokemon's weight is halved + Reduces damage from fire, ground and fighting type by 1/4

Interesting. Registeel likes this. (PokemonMasterDebator, the idea is that because Steel is weak to these types, reducing the amount of of it would reduce the weakness)

Minus
current: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Sp. Atk is 1.5x
change: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Atk and Sp. Atk is 1.5x

Plus
current: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Sp. Atk is 1.5x
change: If an ally has the Ability Plus or Minus, this Pokemon's Atk and Sp. Atk is 1.5x

Still useless, since they only work in Doubles.

Mold Breaker
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Ground immunity from flying type (1x damage)

This doesn't make much sense, flavor wise. What PMD said is also true.

Mummy
current: Pokemon making contact with this Pokemon have their Ability changed to Mummy
change: Pokemon making contact with this Pokemon or hit by this Pokemon contact moves have their Ability changed to Mummy

No way, we don't need Cofagrigus removing the foe's item AND Ability at the same time with Knock Off.

Pressure
current: If this Pokemon is the target of a foe's move, that move loses one additional PP
change: On switch-in, this Pokemon lowers adjacent foes' Accuracy by 1

Is there a purpose for this change? Its old effects are much better for stalling.

Rivalry
current: Move power depends on gender of the opponent
change: When the wielder attacks an opponent that have at least one type SE or NVE against itself, the power of its attack increases by 25%. When the wielder attacks an opponent that have all type either neutral or immune to itself, the power of its attack decreases by 25%

The power change is too small to make a difference. Your wording is confusing, too (bad grammar and "itself" is not specific. Does it have to deal SE/NVE damage against just one of the user's types, or overall if the user has two? What about the type of the move being used?)

Run Away
current: No competitive use
change: this pokemon can't trapped or pursuit, switch out when received damage >= 25% max hp

First part's good, second part makes it hard to do anything.

Slow Start
current: On switch-in, this Pokemon's Attack and Speed are halved for 5 turns
change: On switch-in, this Pokemon's Attack and Speed are halved for 3 turns

This change already exists.

Sniper
current: If this Pokemon strikes with a critical hit, the damage is increased by 50%
change: This Pokemon's first attack will always result in critical hit, but halve its power

Since crits are x1.5 damage now, this would actually make the move weaker.

Stall
current: This Pokemon moves last among Pokemon using the same or greater priority moves
change: This Pokemon moves last among Pokemon using the same or greater priority moves + reduces damage taken from direct attacks by 30%

Sableye prefers Prankster and would still be really frail with Stall. It also doesn't make up for the fact that Sableye has to move last.

Stench
current: This Pokemon's attacks without a chance to flinch have a 10% chance to flinch
change: This Pokemon's attacks without a chance to flinch and secondary effect have a 30% chance to flinch

Still useless, as the Pokemon that have it are still slow.

Teravolt
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Electric immunity from ground type (1x damage)

Turboblaze
current: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified
change: Abilities that hinder attacks are nullified + ignores Dragon immunity from fairy type (1x damage)

Zekrom, Reshiram, and the Kyurem merges are all banned, so they're pointless changes.

Unnerve
current: While this Pokemon is active, prevents opposing Pokemon from using their Berries
change: While this Pokemon is active, prevents opposing Pokemon from using their consumable items

It's a very good change, but I am concerned about certain Pokemon being broken with it (looking at you, Tyranitar).

 

[Zarel]

PokemonMasterDebater pretty much covers it. NEXT is a singles OU mod, changes that only affect Doubles or Ubers are currently out-of-scope. Buffing NU Pokémon is okay, but NEXT will make zero attempts to further buff NFE Pokémon.

Further:

- Cute Charm is a 100% activation in NEXT, removing the gender/contact condition will make it overpowered.

- Blaze/Overgrow/Torrent/Swarm is slated to be activation at 50% HP, no nerf to damage necessary

- I've thought a lot about Heavy Metal and Light Metal and I've yet to find a good flavorful change; I don't think yours are flavorful enough. Current best candidate is Gravity-on-switch-in for Heavy Metal and Magnet-Rise-on-switch-in for Light Metal.

- Mummy change is okay I guess, but Cofagrigus isn't OU-viable either way and it's quite minor.

- NEXT unbans several accuracy decrease moves that are banned in OU, but it also nerfs them severely. It's not an absolute rule not to add more accuracy decrease, but I'd tend against it.

- I thought we already buffed Run Away? Crestfall, do you remember?

- Sniper being an automatic first turn crit is an interesting idea, without decreasing the crit modifier below 1.5x.

- Unnerve preventing all item use is interesting. It won't make Tyranitar OP; remember it loses a 50% increase in SpD and 1/16 passive damage/turn.

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

Time for an update~

New stuff in NEXT and meta updates (and updated readme):

• Slash is now 60bp with 30% to drop defense and is Persian's signature move. (It's still a bit underwhelming)
• Gen 6 starters get new abilities! Battle armor Chesnaught, Magic guard Delphox, Pickpocket Greninja! (I hope Chesnaught isn't too powerful, armor might need to be weakened)
• White smoke now works the same way as clear body. (And I might have broken Torkoal. Seriously, more testing is needed but that might need to be suspected as it can shell smash, overheat, and superpower with impunity; if white smoke needs to be changed, it might be something like block status)
• Volcanion and Diancie are both acknowledged and available (a little bit wonky sprites for them though)

Bugs and problems in NEXT:

• Genesect forms don't work (still)
• Unown doesn't change type to match its hidden power (Not sure how many people even noticed this)
• Aftermath activates twice if the aftermath user was knocked out with a physical attack

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

I don't think that Torkoal is broken, because even with max speed and a positive nature, it reaches 304 speed at +2. That's not enough to outpace base 90 speed pokemon with similar investment, let alone any choice scarfer in existance. Combine that with it's naturally low Sp Defense leaves it vulnerable to being revenge killed.

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 198-234 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 285-336 (101.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 204-240 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 242-288 (86.1 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

But those are all checks, are there any hard counters to Torkoal? Actually yes, physically defensive Jellicent.

+2 252 Atk Torkoal Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 147-174 (36.3 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Torkoal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Jellicent Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 204-242 (72.5 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Azumaril counters sets that run Stone Edge, and checks those that run Sludge Bomb.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 236-282 (83.9 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Torkoal Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 197-232 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Torkoal Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 352-416 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Chandalure also counters sets that run Sludge Bomb, but it can't take a stone edge well.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Imho the Lake trio should have three different abilities because they incarnate three different things; Uxie, as the "Being of Knowledge", should have Own Tempo(or Oblivious, but it has less flavour behind it), Mesprit, as the "Being of Emotion", should have Telephaty, while Azelf, as the "Being of Willpower", should also have Defiant or Competitive.

Oblivious should block everything that Aroma Veil blocks, mainly for status quo. Right now, it blocks only infatuation and Taunt, while Aroma Veil also blocks Torment, Encore, Disable and lolHeal Block.

Healer>Shed Skin clone in singles battles.

Pickup should be buffed and be an Harvest clone, but for non-berries items. This would give to Gourgeist forms a great niche with permanent Red Card/Mental Herb/Focus Sash(?). Another Pokémon with Pickup is Ambipom, but it would still prefer Technician i think.

Torkoal looks good, White Smoke gives it a niche as a fierce stallbreaker, but has enough flaws to not be broken(such as absolutely requiring Shuckle support if it doesn't want to be deadweight against offense).

Also supporting Run Away as a trapping immunity, including the trapping effect of Pursuit.

The Honey Gather buff suggested by Crestfall looks good too, but if the problem is lolwhocaresaboutcombee we could just replace Pressure on Vespiquen with Honey Gather.

 

[Zarel]

Imho the Lake trio should have three different abilities because they incarnate three different things; Uxie, as the "Being of Knowledge", should have Own Tempo(or Oblivious, but it has less flavour behind it), Mesprit, as the "Being of Emotion", should have Telephaty, while Azelf, as the "Being of Willpower", should also have Defiant or Competitive.

I agree that they should have three different abilities, but I think it should be three abilities with some relationship to each other.

Oblivious should block everything that Aroma Veil blocks, mainly for status quo. Right now, it blocks only infatuation and Taunt, while Aroma Veil also blocks Torment, Encore, Disable and lolHeal Block.

Good.

Healer>Shed Skin clone in singles battles.

I think I'd rather it do something more unique. Maybe something with the switch-out system like we have for Flower Gift.

Pickup should be buffed and be an Harvest clone, but for non-berries items. This would give to Gourgeist forms a great niche with permanent Red Card/Mental Herb/Focus Sash(?). Another Pokémon with Pickup is Ambipom, but it would still prefer Technician i think.

I remember thinking about this, and I'm not sure either would be a very substantial buff.

Also supporting Run Away as a trapping immunity, including the trapping effect of Pursuit.

I thought we already did this...

The Honey Gather buff suggested by Crestfall looks good too, but if the problem is lolwhocaresaboutcombee we could just replace Pressure on Vespiquen with Honey Gather.

You mean goodknife? Giving Vespiquen Honey Gather is a good idea, though.

 

[En Passant]

I think Healer should be just like Leftovers. It makes sense (your body heals wounds on its own, but not limbs like Regenerator is), and combining it with Leftovers itself makes for a good amount of passive healing. It would help make Alomomola, Aromatisse, and Blissey (if Wish is made compatible with it) more viable.

As for Honey Gather, while the change isn't negative, the facts that Sweet Scent lowers evasion (which can't be raised due to Evasion Clause) and that Vespiquen doesn't rely on low-accuracy moves makes it useless.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

I think Healer should be just like Leftovers. It makes sense (your body heals wounds on its own, but not limbs like Regenerator is), and combining it with Leftovers itself makes for a good amount of passive healing. It would help make Alomomola, Aromatisse, and Blissey (if Wish is made compatible with it) more viable.

As for Honey Gather, while the change isn't negative, the facts that Sweet Scent lowers evasion (which can't be raised due to Evasion Clause) and that Vespiquen doesn't rely on low-accuracy moves makes it useless.

That's a good point about Honey Gather, but I disagree with the Healer suggestion. Healer is supposed to let you heal an ally, not yourself. We shouldn't modify the flavor too much.

 

[Zarel]

Note that NEXT doesn't have Evasion Clause.

 

[inferzaken]

Can we make parental bond also halve damage on both hits for seismic toss and counter? defensive seismic toss mega kanga is OP right now. Also, can we make signature items that were added in NEXT unable to be knocked off (if they aren't already, haven't checked). Can we undo the shuckle buff, sticky web was its buff and it is one of the best things at setting it up. It does not need another buff, especially not a huge one. Descriptions need to be updated too. 5 turn weather abilities and sound moves going through sub were added in gen 6, so that is not something genNEXT changed. Last but not least, i think we should give the rotom forms an intrinsic ability, and i think static fits pretty well.

 

[Crestfall]

I suggest using a ghost type, I've played enough against mega kanga to tell you it's balanced.

As the biggest shuckle user of anyone in NEXT trust me he is only niche since losing the previous leech seed buff. He isn't OP at all. I guess he's nearly guaranteed hazards but if you don't have spin or defog you should focus on that.

Weather will be re balanced later, the current temporary plan is nerfing weather speed double abilities to 1.5 and slightly altering the damage boost/weakening from rain/sun. Sandstorm will retain the SpD boost (tentatively, as it hasn't been brought up nor should it) if rock type.

Which descriptions?

Sound moves bypass sub in NEXT.

I've spoken to Zarel about Rotom-form intrinsics, however I'm still on leave of absence and don't have computer access. I will consult him and NEXT more before choosing one. My idea was to have each have their own, however Zarel feels they should share one. We will deliberate more later I'm sure.

Ty for ur concerns and suggestions though, always welcome!

E: Temporaryanonymous can you do another "patch notes" post of changes made recently to NEXT?

 

[Monte Cristo]

Note that NEXT doesn't have Evasion Clause.

Just wondering, why the odd choice in unbanning it?

 

[Crestfall]

A few reasons:

1. We buffed accuracy. Many moves now no longer miss and have GOOD base powers.
2. We nerfed protect (which was used with Moody to gain massive evasion by luck).
3. We nerfed substitute. Attacks against sub CANNOT miss - this was another part of Moody stalling. This also was done by people who could get one minimize boost and spam sub with leftovers until you finally missed. Then they could do it again and again, and the odds favour the evasion user. This is no longer possible.
4. We upgraded BOTH accuracy lens items

 

[Monte Cristo]

A few reasons:

1. We buffed accuracy. Many moves now no longer miss and have GOOD base powers.
2. We nerfed protect (which was used with Moody to gain massive evasion by luck).
3. We nerfed substitute. Attacks against sub CANNOT miss - this was another part of Moody stalling. This also was done by people who could get one minimize boost and spam sub with leftovers until you finally missed. Then they could do it again and again, and the odds favour the evasion user. This is no longer possible.
4. We upgraded BOTH accuracy lens items

this still doesn't make any sense as to why you would nerf so much possible fair strats just to un-ban something so uncompetitive. There is literally no point in un banning evasion, all it does is cause nerfs to other things and allow more uncompetitive shit into the game.

 

[Crestfall]

Protect and Sub were not nerfed for Evasion buddy. It was because protect and sub were FAR too strong in gen5. Yes in gen6 they are not nearly as common, but this mod was made for gen5 originally and doesn't exactly have a lot of activity nor contributors who want to help fix it. I'm a novice but I try hard to help the mod and the room. If you have an idea for a change to sub or protect say so here or in the NEXT room to me or temporaryanonymous or zarel.

In addition I find it laughable you say we removed strategies when evasion itself is now a new strategy lol. And if you look OVERALL through the mod, we've made more shit viable than removing things.

Also it'd be appreciated if you don't shit talk a meta based on your theorycraft. Please go play and immerse yourself in NEXT before spouting these misdirected thoughts. It's like me being garbage and low ranked in LC and yelling about the meta. That opinion is allowed but it won't be respected (at least not by me).

E: gp because phone keyboards suck

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

Just wondering, why the odd choice in unbanning it?

Because the primary abuser of evasion (double team) has been nerfed to the point where it isn't worth using. Sacrificing 25% of your hp for +1 evasion is really not worth it. Additionally, never miss moves are 90 base power, putting them on par with boltbeamthrower and there are also moves that get benefits against minimize users if people still insist on using them.

On another note, I was thinking of some new abilities.

• First the levitators, starting with the pixies:
• Steadfast Azelf. Azelf represents the sword (valor) in the Imperial Regalia, and it's thematically fitting for a sword to be steadfast. This is mainly for flavor, but can help against fake out, as Azelf is mainly a lead pokemon.
• Serene Grace Mesprit. Mesrpit represents the jewel (benevolence) in the Imperial Regalia. While serene grace might be a bit of a stretch, I think it's pretty thematic for it, and it's not like this NU pixie will be broken with it.
• Synchronize Uxie. Uxie represents the mirror (wisdom) in the Imperial Regalia, and Synchronize perfectly matches the theme of a mirror, which is a definite buff for Uxie as it can serve as a status sponge without the broken-ness of magic bounce
• Cursed body Giratina-o. Purely for consistency reasons as NEXT Ubers isn't planned at the moment.
• Sheer force Hydreigon. This is perhaps a bigger change, but I think it fits the thematic violent destruction of Hydreigon. Mechanically, Sheer Force would only boost Surf, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon, Earth power, and Fire blast, while keeping his main dragon STABs unboosted. For a pseudo in UU with a 4x weakness, I think this could work; it has higher spA than Landorus, but a worse speed tier.

And some other changes:

• Tough Claws Crawdaunt. Crawdaunt loses a lot of viability without an extra 30% boost to its water attacks and dark attacks, so tough claws gives it back its 30% boost to its STABs (and Superpower for coverage)
• Flame body Charizard. Charizard is already a top tier pokemon in OU, and NEXT only helps it with the sr change. Giving it the ability to gain 50% boost to fire type moves and an immunity makes it too strong in my opinion. Flame body was one of the fire type abilities that I thought would buff Charizard the least.
• Magma armor Typhlosion. I don't want the starters to have the same new abilities, so magma armor Typhlosion is a buff to Flame body in that it gives the NU starter armor, a one time immunity, and also retains the hail immunity that flame body granted, possibly making this fire starter more viable. Typhlosion is also literally a volcano, so this fits thematically.
  
• Strong Jaws Feraligatr. This is mainly because I feel that intimidate makes it too similar to Gyarados, and Feraligatr does have strong jaws (it's a g8r!) who can utilize crunch and ice fang (50% boost to biting moves compared to 30% boost of sheer force)

Any thoughts on the abilities or suggestions? (swarm vesipqueen? hustle carnivine?) Also, Zarel, right now intrinsic levitate is not broken by mold breaker, but it is broken if the pokemon did not receive any new ability (like Rotom and Lati@s). Is intrinsic levitate supposed to be broken by mold breaker? There's a bit of an inconsistency here.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Protect and Sub were not nerfed for Evasion buddy. It was because protect and sub were FAR too strong in gen5. Yes in gen6 they are not nearly as common, but this mod was made for gen5 originally and doesn't exactly have a lot of activity nor contributors who want to help fix it. I'm a novice but I try hard to help the mod and the room. If you have an idea for a change to sub or protect say so here or in the NEXT room to me or temporaryanonymous or zarel.

In addition I find it laughable you say we removed strategies when evasion itself is now a new strategy lol. And if you look OVERALL through the mod, we've made more shit viable than removing things.

Also it'd be appreciated if you don't shit talk a meta based on your theorycraft. Please go play and immerse yourself in NEXT before spouting these misdirected thoughts. It's like me being garbage and low ranked in LC and yelling about the meta. That opinion is allowed but it won't be respected (at least not by me).

E: gp because phone keyboards suck

whyare you getting mad and calling me out when I've been shown to support this meta in the past, I'm clearly not talking shit I'm just wondering why you would do that in the first place. Also sub and protect were not OP moves in gen 5 stanard fyi. The only thing you do by posting responses is making the NEXT moderation staff seem more abraisive towards people simply asking questions and having a clearly not agrresive argument. Evasion isn't a competetive strategy, which trust me, I know what I say when I say the purpose of pet mods is generally to fix un comptetive factors with some sort of endearing gimick or ruleset. All evasion does is abuse the luck factor, and all your doing is removing some skillful risk reward factors from playing vs normal protect/sub. I don't see why we should nerf something not OP for th sake of maing the metagame more obectively uncompetetive.

e: bad spellin andshit, posted on shitty mobile

 

[Zarel]

Just wondering, why the odd choice in unbanning it?

Because that's how NEXT balance happens.

In OU, balance happens by banning overpowered things.

In NEXT, balance happens by changing overpowered things until they're not overpowered anymore. The only exception is cover legendaries etc, which aren't intended to be competitive with nonlegendaries anyway.

 

[Zarel]

Because the primary abuser of evasion (double team) has been nerfed to the point where it isn't worth using. Sacrificing 25% of your hp for +1 evasion is really not worth it. Additionally, never miss moves are 90 base power, putting them on par with boltbeamthrower and there are also moves that get benefits against minimize users if people still insist on using them.

On another note, I was thinking of some new abilities.

• First the levitators, starting with the pixies:
• Steadfast Azelf. Azelf represents the sword (valor) in the Imperial Regalia, and it's thematically fitting for a sword to be steadfast. This is mainly for flavor, but can help against fake out, as Azelf is mainly a lead pokemon.
• Serene Grace Mesprit. Mesrpit represents the jewel (benevolence) in the Imperial Regalia. While serene grace might be a bit of a stretch, I think it's pretty thematic for it, and it's not like this NU pixie will be broken with it.
• Synchronize Uxie. Uxie represents the mirror (wisdom) in the Imperial Regalia, and Synchronize perfectly matches the theme of a mirror, which is a definite buff for Uxie as it can serve as a status sponge without the broken-ness of magic bounce
• Cursed body Giratina-o. Purely for consistency reasons as NEXT Ubers isn't planned at the moment.
• Sheer force Hydreigon. This is perhaps a bigger change, but I think it fits the thematic violent destruction of Hydreigon. Mechanically, Sheer Force would only boost Surf, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon, Earth power, and Fire blast, while keeping his main dragon STABs unboosted. For a pseudo in UU with a 4x weakness, I think this could work; it has higher spA than Landorus, but a worse speed tier.

And some other changes:

• Tough Claws Crawdaunt. Crawdaunt loses a lot of viability without an extra 30% boost to its water attacks and dark attacks, so tough claws gives it back its 30% boost to its STABs (and Superpower for coverage)
• Flame body Charizard. Charizard is already a top tier pokemon in OU, and NEXT only helps it with the sr change. Giving it the ability to gain 50% boost to fire type moves and an immunity makes it too strong in my opinion. Flame body was one of the fire type abilities that I thought would buff Charizard the least.
• Magma armor Typhlosion. I don't want the starters to have the same new abilities, so magma armor Typhlosion is a buff to Flame body in that it gives the NU starter armor, a one time immunity, and also retains the hail immunity that flame body granted, possibly making this fire starter more viable. Typhlosion is also literally a volcano, so this fits thematically.
  
• Strong Jaws Feraligatr. This is mainly because I feel that intimidate makes it too similar to Gyarados, and Feraligatr does have strong jaws (it's a g8r!) who can utilize crunch and ice fang (50% boost to biting moves compared to 30% boost of sheer force)

Any thoughts on the abilities or suggestions? (swarm vesipqueen? hustle carnivine?) Also, Zarel, right now intrinsic levitate is not broken by mold breaker, but it is broken if the pokemon did not receive any new ability (like Rotom and Lati@s). Is intrinsic levitate supposed to be broken by mold breaker? There's a bit of an inconsistency here.

I like all of these.

Steadfast could use a buff, too. Ideas?

Intrinsic Levitate should be broken by Mold Breaker; that should be fixed.

 

[inferzaken]

I think steadfest pokemon should be immune to taunt and torment, as well as actually immune to flinches. Inner focus should give the user 1.2x accuracy added to its usual effect to differenciate.

 

[Beta.]

On the topic of giving Rotoms their own instinct ability, I agree with Crestfall upon that matter, and each rotoms should deserve their own ability based upon their type. here are some ideas just for notes

Hide

Rotom - Cursed Body
Rotom Wash - Water Absorb
Rotom Heat - Flame Body
Rotom Frost - Ice Body
Rotom Mow - maybe something like Harvest or natural cure... I am unsure
Rotom Fan - Unsure for this one aswell.

Also, I agree with inferzaken's idea for inner focus. The pokemon should be focused enough to accurately hit the target.

 

[Crestfall]

Lol Beta I already pitched Ice and Flame Body Rotoms (heat/frost) to Zarel but he says he'd prefer they all get the same intrinsic. So I'm still thinking myself. Also I wouldn't give Wash water absorb. It's already really good, shouldn't be able to now totally ignore water attacks that could dish out at least 10% or whatever lol.

Ok ideas for Lati twins to get intrinsics?

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Ok ideas for Lati twins to get intrinsics?

Serene Grace, so that they can use their signature moves Luster Purge and Mist Ball to some effect. The only other notable moves they have that are affected by Serene Grace are Thunder and Ice Beam, the former of which requires rain support, and the latter creating redundant coverage with Dragon STAB.